AlchoPwn
Public Service is my Motto.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2017
- Messages
- 2,527
Yes, if you have enough experience with these things, you develop a "bias", but other people, i.e. mental health professionals, would call it a proficiency based on experience. If you think goths are morbid you should chat with medics.Or I am illustrating how a personal bias influences interpretation - hence the *rolleyes*.
Move away from your own definitions that label people incompetent and consider and alternative scenarios. It's an exercise. Used to do it with late teens.
Umm... Nope. My system work just fine thanks. It is a product of doing the whole "alternative scenarios" prior, then forming an evidence based conclusion. What you are offering me is hipster logic, which I don't accept. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has feathers and a beak like a duck, eats duck food, and hangs out with other ducks, it's probably a duck. The same goes with hipsters. Labels work, and that is why we have things like clinical diagnoses, which are, after all, only labels (supported by decades of research and observational models).
Could you reword that and try again please? I think I understood what you meant, but the grammatical ambiguities render the statement ambiguous.Some one who has it in their head that the reason people do whatever it is - the "correct" reason in their view - is to kill themselves, won't be able to change the emphasis. Instead of stating that the subgroup that doesn't reach what you think is the goal, trying changing the terms.
On the contrary, as something of a Nihilist, I am not going to make such a moral judgement against the value of some people committing suicide, providing their choice isn't formed resultant from a state of depression. Suicide can be a perfectly sensible moral choice in my opinion, and I certainly support another human being's right to die in fair number of circumstances. A heartbroken or bullied teenager trying to kill themselves doesn't count as any of those however; they need help, and should call a suicide hotline. An elderly person facing a painful terminal illness however should be offered the opportunity for mercy we would present any other suffering animal under those circumstances.For example, rather than group A failing and group B succeeding, try the idea that they are after different goals. In this case this leads to the possibility that group B is failing at "trying to get help" and group A is succeeding.
As to the example you offer, it is fundamentally flawed. Neither group is interested in seeking help if they are actually proceeding with the action of suicide. The notion that just because group B fail at suicide, that there must have been some sort of intervention where someone helped out is Polyanna thinking. I propose that that is yet another category, namely group C, where a successful intervention took place, which is a small subset of failed suicide attempts. Mostly group B will vomit up their poison, or their method was usuccessful for other technical reasons. I was going to go into details but decided against it.
But you aren't doing exactly what you recommend I do. Do you seriously think changing the location of the goalposts is going to change the outcome? Why should anyone accept your definitions if you lack the courtesy to properly address theirs?Totally agree with this. One of the ways "we get it right" here is to look at all views of something, coming out of comfort zones and trying different a different model. For the exercise it doesn't have to work, it has to stretch us - of course, then we should look at of the mind refusing to swallow is confirmation bias or because something doesn't fit.
No, he was badly drunk at the time, and possibly other drugs, and was notorious drama queen. He was raving about how his boyfriend had "made him gay", and other very crass remarks that would be construed as intensely homophobic if they hadn't come from the mouth of an apparently gay person. The individual in question was well known to me, but not someone I could pretend to respect, as I don't suffer fools gladly (unless they are doing dares for my amusement). And seriously, you just can't kill yourself that way. Anyone who knows anything about committing suicide will tell you that your autonomic nervous system will force you to pull your head out of water and draw breath. He had made no attempt to restrain himself, and we were keeping an eye on him in case he got the clever idea of jumping in, which might have worked given his drunken state. You might be surprised to know that he is married with 2 kids these days, and still an idiot and a drama queen.Perhaps the person in your anecdotal evidence wasn't trying to kill himself and failing. He was trying to connect, ask for help, get a human contact - and failing. My own bias here means that my primary analysis here is that isn't primarily to do with him, it's to do with those he was trying to communicate with - "A great fool ", "hopeless ", "Sheesh ", "worse", "total incompetence ", "nobody was taking him seriously ", "we just stifled our laughter ", "attention seeking"... perhaps his error lay in him trying to communicate with this particular group of people? Remember, this is an exercise, don't get attached to the idea of discrediting a possible interpretation - this is one of the things we do here, isn;t it?
Well there are a lot of pretty biased assumptions nested in that statement. Have you ever looked at yourself and thought "Wow, maybe I'm a total hypocrite and my whole position is BS?"I'll rephrase this from my own angle "Teachers/members of a group where the suicide rate is greater than the general population, especially old ones like myself, deal with a lot of suicide, and you quickly get a sense that trying to find out the why and wherefore is akin to the problem of accurate weather forecasting."
Suffice to say I am somewhat overqualified in the area and no longer very interested in it, which is why I moved to neuropsychology. I mean, this is not to say that coming home from volunteer work at the suicide hotline didn't make me a "little ray of death". I'm sure I could have used all that lovely negative energy to create a completely statistically ambiguous cancer cluster via ritual magic if my neighbors had been less pleasant.