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Swastikas & Disputes About The Swastika Symbol

Spookdaddy said:
So, the probably quite mentally ill individual formally known as Kanye West is in the news today for depicting a combination of the hakenkreuz/swastika and the Star of David - which action has apparently got him banned (again) from something called Twitter.

Elon Musk suspends Kanye West from Twitter for inciting violence
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The tweet FWIW:
1670144483168.png

https://www.tmz.com/2022/12/02/kanye-west-antisemitism-nazis-hitler-twitter-suspended/
 
maximus otter said:

NYT Claims Swastika Shaped Crossword on Eve of Hanukkah is a ‘Common’ Design​


Two clues were “Boxcars” and “Brandenburg Gate.”


FkUEYUqaUAAr3Lv


https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/...ssword-on-eve-of-hanukkah-is-a-common-design/

maximus otter
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Some of these crosswords clues are, to use a phrase beloved of a good friend of mine, 'PROPER SHITE'.

I'm not much good at cryptic crosswords, but I admire their fiendish construction; this is a nasty mish-mash of poor cryptic and horribly literal literals.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Good point. That is the original Raelian symbol.
They changed the swastika part to look like a whirlpool after somebody pointed out the 'nazi-ness' to them.

Here's a Snopes link:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ye-raelian-symbol/
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I have some Raelian books one of which has that symbol on the cover, or at least it had. When I bought it, at a Lecture by Rael, it had a sticker with the new logo placed over it, but the original was still visible.
 
Yithian said:
Some of these crosswords clues are, to use a phrase beloved of a good friend of mine, 'PROPER SHITE'.

I'm not much good at cryptic crosswords, but I admire their fiendish construction; this is a nasty mish-mash of poor cryptic and horribly literal literals.
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It looks like a pretty typical American crossword, including the layout. The occasional cryptic clue (often flagged by a question mark at the end) is common in NY Times puzzles. Full cryptic puzzles are rare in the U.S.
 
cycleboy2 said:
Whilst on the Saleroom website, looking for wooden jigsaw puzzles, I came across this 'box with a quantity of miscellaneous scouting related badges'... though for some reason they didn't mention the swastika in the small box at the front!
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Here is a very interesting page on the subject from the online World Scout Museum:

Swastikas in Scouting

When one first sees a swastika and a scout symbol, often the first thing that comes to mind is the question; did scouting support the Nazi movement? The answer is, no. The swastika symbols have an extensive history and some have been used for at least 5,000 years.

From What Scouts Can Do - More Yarns — Baden-Powell, 1921; the full text of which can be found on the Pine Tree Web Site:

"… as you know from the account of the Swastika Thanks Badge which I have given to you in Scouting for Boys, the symbol was used in almost every part of the world in ancient days and therefore has various meanings given to it.

"Anyway, whatever the origin was, the Swastika now stands for the badge of fellowship among Scouts all over the world, and when anyone has done a kindness to a Scout it is their privilege to present him or her with this token of their gratitude, which makes him a sort of member of the Brotherhood, and entitles him to the help of any other Scout at any time and at any place.

"I want specially to remind Scouts to keep their eyes open and never fail to spot anyone wearing this badge. It is their duty then to go up to such a person, make the scout sign, and ask if they can be of service to the wearer."
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cycleboy2 said:
I'm guessing it's used less often by the scouts these days, what with history an'all..
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This bit hasn't aged well -

"I want specially to remind Scouts to keep their eyes open and never fail to spot anyone wearing this badge. It is their duty then to go up to such a person, make the scout sign, and ask if they can be of service to the wearer."

@ramonmercado would certainly offer them a service. :nods:
 
cycleboy2 said:
I'm guessing it's used less often by the scouts these days, what with history an'all..
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The thing about "Swastika"s that's THE most stupid ack-bassward way of looking at the world, and something I personally feel is an indication of intellectual laziness on the part of the people doing it....

Swastika is a SANSKRIT word!!!! (spelled स्वस्तिक using the Devanagari script)

By calling it a Swastika you are identifying it as a religious symbol from SOUTHERN ASIA!

The name used in WW2 by the Germans was "Hakenkreuz" (hooked cross).

Other names for the symbol are Fylfot, cross cramponnée, xac, wanzi, manji, manja, chu van, wung drung....

As for why this got conflated? prior to WW2 the Sanskrit word for the symbol was apparently the most commonly used in English speaking countries. But banning it's use for GERMAN reasons when it's a religious symbol in DOZENS of countries... including the US? Yes, really native american groups use the symbol for stuff and have for centuries.

An exceptionally old known usage is a clay figurine from 10K BC. We don't even know who made that one...

The logic for banning it... is treating one... recent, but dead culture as more important than dozens of other still existing cultures, and trampling the desires of... seemingly... half the WORLD.
 
marhawkman said:
The thing about "Swastika"s that's THE most stupid ack-bassward way of looking at the world, and something I personally feel is an indication of intellectual laziness on the part of the people doing it....

Swastika is a SANSKRIT word!!!! (spelled स्वस्तिक using the Devanagari script)

By calling it a Swastika you are identifying it as a religious symbol from SOUTHERN ASIA!

The name used in WW2 by the Germans was "Hakenkreuz" (hooked cross).

Other names for the symbol are Fylfot, cross cramponnée, xac, wanzi, manji, manja, chu van, wung drung....

As for why this got conflated? prior to WW2 the Sanskrit word for the symbol was apparently the most commonly used in English speaking countries. But banning it's use for GERMAN reasons when it's a religious symbol in DOZENS of countries... including the US? Yes, really native american groups use the symbol for stuff and have for centuries.

An exceptionally old known usage is a clay figurine from 10K BC. We don't even know who made that one...

The logic for banning it... is treating one... recent, but dead culture as more important than dozens of other still existing cultures, and trampling the desires of... seemingly... half the WORLD.
Click to expand...
I've travelled a lot in Asia where the swastika symbol is still prominently displayed in certain countries, but I think one can see why as a symbol its use has been so strongly proscribed in the west, given its prominence in the Third Reich's iconography.

(I studied German history at university, and sometimes thought I was the only person to use the word 'hakenkreuz'. Looks like there's at least two of us...)
 
marhawkman said:
The thing about "Swastika"s that's THE most stupid ack-bassward way of looking at the world, and something I personally feel is an indication of intellectual laziness on the part of the people doing it....

Swastika is a SANSKRIT word!!!! (spelled स्वस्तिक using the Devanagari script)

By calling it a Swastika you are identifying it as a religious symbol from SOUTHERN ASIA!

The name used in WW2 by the Germans was "Hakenkreuz" (hooked cross).

Other names for the symbol are Fylfot, cross cramponnée, xac, wanzi, manji, manja, chu van, wung drung....

As for why this got conflated? prior to WW2 the Sanskrit word for the symbol was apparently the most commonly used in English speaking countries. But banning it's use for GERMAN reasons when it's a religious symbol in DOZENS of countries... including the US? Yes, really native american groups use the symbol for stuff and have for centuries.

An exceptionally old known usage is a clay figurine from 10K BC. We don't even know who made that one...

The logic for banning it... is treating one... recent, but dead culture as more important than dozens of other still existing cultures, and trampling the desires of... seemingly... half the WORLD.
Click to expand...
Yeah we know all that. We still hate swastikas.
 
marhawkman said:
Well, but that's the thing, a personal choice is very different than mandating that NO ONE use it. Many people in the world use it for their own reasons not related to WW2.
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Apart from Germany, which has special cause I think, does anywhere else? Austria perhaps? Maybe the Netherlands?

But there is a difference between mandating that NO ONE use it and a general shudder of revulsion across a population. The criticisms of swastikas in the wild furth of europe tend to be some newspapers needing one sort of attention and instagramtockers looking for likes I think?
 
marhawkman said:
Well, but that's the thing, a personal choice is very different than mandating that NO ONE use it. Many people in the world use it for their own reasons not related to WW2.
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Where did I say that no-one should use it?
 
You didn’t…..but you might have to define the “We” when you say “We still hate swasticas”.
 
Frideswide said:
Apart from Germany, which has special cause I think, does anywhere else? Austria perhaps? Maybe the Netherlands?

But there is a difference between mandating that NO ONE use it and a general shudder of revulsion across a population. The criticisms of swastikas in the wild furth of europe tend to be some newspapers needing one sort of attention and instagramtockers looking for likes I think?
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you'd be surprised at the weird sorts of outrage I've seen over the years, much of which makes NO sense. Is it a matter of law? Not always, but people will soapbox about "moral" behavior while trampling the freedoms of others.
 
Big controversy in the world of knitting a few months back. Much loved designer, Stephen West, who runs a huge Make Along, every year, anticipated by people all over the world, accidentally designed something that looked like a swastika and didn't realise til it was released.

It's a Mystery Knit Along which is released over a period of about a month, one "Clue" (pattern for one section) per week. This was the first Clue and the most central part of the shawl pattern. Clues are released as PDFs. Because it's a Mystery no image of the final product is published and you have no idea what you're knitting until you've completed each Clue.

West instantly withdrew the pattern and requested nobody knitted it, and put out an alternative - leading to knitters of a certain political persuasion protesting their right to knit a swastika, and distributing his pattern anyway...

Massive drama. West is probably the best known current knitting designer out there. He's always tried to tread a careful path and avoid politics or controversy (which is surprisingly rife in the knitting universe). His annual Make Along is probably the most anticipated event of the year.

West is an American but lives in the Netherlands, where swastikas are illegal. Within days of the first Clue being released, he realised his mistake (I think the inspiration was an old American quilt pattern, meant to be more like a windmill kinda thing), and gracefully pivoted, putting out an alternative. People will spend over £100 on the materials or kits to make these and many had also invested a week or more knitting the first Clue before the swastika controversy hit. (It's more or less obvious depending on what colours the knitters chose). West and his Mods online pulled any posts with shots of the original swastika-ish Clue, in order to expunge it from the internet and prevent people reverse engineering from images, probably. Everyone was sent the PDF of the new design and were asked to unravel the original and replace with the new one. Cue chaos. No doubt will get a write up on Reddit Hobby Drama at some point.

Overview here:

West's tearful response as the whole thing unfolded:

 
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Ghost In The Machine said:
Big controversy in the world of knitting a few months back. Much loved designer, Stephen West, who runs a huge Make Along, every year, anticipated by people all over the world, accidentally designed something that looked like a swastika and didn't realise til it was released.

It's a Mystery Knit Along which is released over a period of about a month, one "Clue" (pattern for one section) per week. This was the first Clue and the most central part of the shawl pattern. Clues are released as PDFs. Because it's a Mystery no image of the final product is published and you have no idea what you're knitting until you've completed each Clue.

West instantly withdrew the pattern and requested nobody knitted it, and put out an alternative - leading to knitters of a certain political persuasion protesting their right to knit a swastika, and distributing his pattern anyway...

Massive drama. West is probably the best known current knitting designer out there. He's always tried to tread a careful path and avoid politics or controversy (which is surprisingly rife in the knitting universe). His annual Make Along is probably the most anticipated event of the year.

West is an American but lives in the Netherlands, where swastikas are illegal. Within days of the first Clue being released, he realised his mistake (I think the inspiration was an old American quilt pattern, meant to be more like a windmill kinda thing), and gracefully pivoted, putting out an alternative. People will spend over £100 on the materials or kits to make these and many had also invested a week or more knitting the first Clue before the swastika controversy hit. (It's more or less obvious depending on what colours the knitters chose). West and his Mods online pulled any posts with shots of the original swastika-ish Clue, in order to expunge it from the internet and prevent people reverse engineering from images, probably. Everyone was sent the PDF of the new design and were asked to unravel the original and replace with the new one. Cue chaos. No doubt will get a write up on Reddit Hobby Drama at some point.

Overview here:

West's tearful response as the whole thing unfolded:

Click to expand...
Have to say, I wholeheartedly approve of Fascists taking up knitting. :nods:
 
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