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Tarot Experiment

shambles

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
102
*N.B. dear reader, see the 'free psychics online' thread in the parapsychology forum for context.

Well, Lizard23, I am seriously considering applying for a vacancy in Singapore, as a senior lecturer on an M.A. course. I am well qualified to do the job, and the idea of working with students who have a real passion for training and learning really appeals to me. I've previously lived and worked in Pacific Asia and it's environs, and enjoy life in that part of the world. My quandries and hence my request for a reading boil down to this rather typical poser:

Is it the right move at this time in my life?

Thanks in advance ;)
 
*wafts in all ethereally in floaty garb and too much make-up and smelling strongly of some sort of earthy perfume*

OK dearie, sit yourself down and I'll be with you in two mins.

What I'm going to do is a ten card spread usually called 'the celtic cross' using a standard Ryder Waite tarot deck. The cards are dealt something like this

.......4.........................................10
...................................................9
6......1.....5...................................8
........2..........................................7
........3

with card 2 over and across card 1.

Various people use different names and roles for each of the positions, but I treat them as follows:

1 - Principle (what the issue is basically all about)
2 - Crossing (what is blocking/affecting or sometimes causing the issue)
3 - Foundation (where you're coming from, roughly)
4 - Direction (where you're going, roughly)
5 - Past (some more specific thing in that past that has relevance to the issue)
6 - Future (likewise but in the future)
7 - Self (some relevant characteristic, personality trait or feeling of yours that's relevant)
8 - Environment (some external circumstance that is relevant)
9 - Challenge (a problem to be solved or something to be achieved)
10 - Outcome (the 'answer' to the question, a prediction of the future etc)

When I read for someone else I always do a long and boring speech first about how I personally don't think that tarot reading is performed by god, angels, ghosts or any other supernatural entities, I don't claim to be psychic and it's all just a randomly selected subset of archetypes that we're going to try and use to help you look psychologically and philosophically at your life blah di blah di blah, but no one ever listens and it doesn't seem necessary on the ftmb so I'll leave it at that.

I have my own book of corespondances for the cards which I have built up over time from a lot of sources and from personal use and meditation and not everyone is going to agree with my meanings, which is good, I'd quite like some debate. Also, as you've given me quite a lot of information I'm going to focus on the aspects of the cards that seem most applicable, so if it's all a clever ruse and you're actually really wondering about something else to see if I am *really* clairvoyant or something, well ... see above :D

I'll be back in a bit when I've got my smoke and mirrors set up.
 
Nope, no trying to trick you here. I appreciate your input, I really do. I have a rudimentary knowledge of the tarot, and I agree with your archetypal model. I like to view spreads as reflective tools, and so I'm looking forward to seeing it. It could be argued that I was influencing the reading by giving you the information I did...well, I don't have a problem with that. I'd hardly go to the doc and when he said 'what's wrong with you shambles?', I'd say 'oooh no, doc, i'm just going to sit here and wait for you to tell me what's wrong'. :D
 
No No No No Yes, it's the Djinn alright. ;)
 
Do you know, I almost wrote gin but decided against it as I've stopped drinking it since I got back to the UK, pretty much, and am just about 'in recovery' at the moment, on meagre rations while I organise a proper detox.

You did all want to know that, I'm sure.

On a more pertinant note I can't find any batteries for my *&%?$ing camera, so I'll do the reading tomorrow when I've been to the shops.
 
Bloody hell, I doubt this particular forum has seen so much action in years! She cannae take it, Cap'n!

_Lizard23_ said:
On a more pertinant note I can't find any batteries for my *&%?$ing camera, so I'll do the reading tomorrow when I've been to the shops.

You'll be needing my bank account number and mother's maiden name then. :)

I'm at work all day, so if you do post the reading, I'll not be able to respond till this evening. Don't want you to think I'm being rude.

Indian gin, Godfather beer...sigh...maybe I should just strike Singapore and get off the plane in Delhi.
 
I do rather miss Blue Riband gin.
My alcohol issues turned out to be slightly relevant afterall.
Last night I saw an owl, a bat and a toad (nothing especially odd in that really, I'm staying out in the wilds, but they're all very groovy spooky nocturnal occult beasties) and then dreamed of three choices (which were somehow to do with the 3 animals), one of which involved going abroad and that was the one that was chosen. I wish I could remember the details, but you know how dreams are.
I'm suffering from 'REM rebound' due to the reduced drinking and statistically should have dreamed of all possible things by the end of the month.
Obviously your question influenced my dream, and I'm somewhat biased on the subject as I'm itching to go back East too, but for what it is worth my subconscious already seems to be saying 'yes'. ;)

It will most likely be this evening next morning when I post the reading.
 
So, Shambles, you're mulling over an important career move, and to help with your decision you're consulting a fortune teller? :lol:

Tell you what, take that magic coin out of your pocket and flip it. ;)
 
_Lizard23_ said:
I'm suffering from 'REM rebound'

Is this where you obsessively listen to the music of Michael Stipe for a period then realise all the albums sound the same and the lyrics aren't deep and meaningful, like a riddle to be unravelled, just nonsense written on a fag packet. This leaves you bereft and desperate and you grab around for another band, any band to fill the gap, often something you'd rather your mates didn't know you'd bought, let alone listen to.

Oh....

Just me then. :oops:
 
escargot1 said:
So, Shambles, you're mulling over an important career move, and to help with your decision you're consulting a fortune teller? :lol:

Tell you what, take that magic coin out of your pocket and flip it. ;)

You may scoff, mollusc, but when it comes to important decisions, I like to get as much information from as many sources as possible. Snails have been widely noted as used in divination too, you know. ;)
 
So where is this layout already? I don't see why a camera is necessary - just tell us what card you drew for each position.
 
shambles said:
Snails have been widely noted as used in divination too, you know. ;)
Quite!
Snail's surprise choice in Labour leadership race

Ringo the snail uses his psychic powers as he is faced with picking a winner from the Labour leadership race in the This Week studio.

We fast forward through the show to see Ringo shy away from the bookies' favourite as David Miliband sees his support slip away and Ringo shows he is a real This Week fan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/t ... 804390.stm
 
PeniG said:
So where is this layout already? I don't see why a camera is necessary - just tell us what card you drew for each position.

I'd quite like a photo of the spread, actually. It would be really useful. It would quite possibly aid me in making me aware of that which I was previously unaware, and if it didn't, then so what? I kind of think that would be a good thing either way.

It's not a challenge, it's me asking Lizard23 for a tarot reading. Jeez.
 
OK, sorry everyone, hectic few days.

Click thumbnail for bigger pic -
1)I quite like the principle card, it very much seems to represent the question, the 2 of wands is all about having established yourself to the extent of having spare energy and desire to branch out and do something new, but not quite being sure what.
2)It's crossed by the 4 of swords which suggests inertia, a somewhat reclusive rest, not so much stagnation as comfort.
3)The foundation is tricky to read here, the 3 of swords can be a conflict of ideas (made me think of my 3 animals again), but to me is more often associated with what it obviously appears to represent - heartache and love triangles.
4)I really don't like the court cards, I find them hard to read, but the King of Swords is definitely a teacher, someone passionate about ideas (fire of air) and in a position of authority. Firm but fair.
5)The 10 of swords is a horrible card with a bit of hope, it stands for a disaster, possibly a mental breakdown. I call it 'you don't get any deader' - the positive spin is that things can only get better, and as this is in the past I feel it implies that this is something you're already getting over. Again it can also mean what it literally depicts, 'backstabbing', malicious gossip etc.
6)The 2 of swords stands for a temporary truce, possibly between two conflicting concepts, it is often a difficult decision which needs to be made logically. Here it is reversed, suggesting possible unfairness, or the end of a period of calm.
7)The 7 of discs is usually about being fed up of waiting for a return on an investment, in a very material sense.
8)The Devil I call 'we choose the chains' - it's about bad habits and hedonism, a card of addictions and harmful choices.
9)The Knight of Cups is air of water, as well as stsanding for a writer of love poetry, the arrival of a message with emotional content or a proposition, it's also about travel by water and has associations with the period between early October and Early November.
10)The King of Cups is a patriarchal family man with a tendancy to overindulge, as in both to spoil his kids and prone to drink and eat too much.

So, I would say:
You're in a position where you feel you want to start a new venture elsewhere but are perhaps held back by the feeling of security you currently have.
You've been through some distressing conflict, possibly of a romantic nature, but are moving forward towards ending the temporary stagnation and taking on a position of benevolent and wise authority.
You are feeling frustrated at waiting and see others around you held back by their mistakes and bad choices.
At some point (possibly between the 12th of October and 11th of November) you are going to have to tell someone how you really feel.
This should lead to you being in a position to rule over those who matter to you with kindly and self-satisfied indulgence.

With reference to your question, there are a lot of swords here, which definitely suggests somehing in the academic field, and a movement towards an emotionally rewarding conclusion.
There is a definite theme of movement and breaking with the past and overcoming opposition to that.
I would say this is a pretty positive spread that suggests you are on the right track in what you are considering doing.

If I think of anything else I'll post it later.
 
I have received the following, much different interpretation of the spread from another user who wishes to remain anonymous -

Querent: 2 of wands: A man, whose principles suggest the belief in the value of mutual support, joint endeavour and equitable division of the rewards of success; has the immediate prospect of career ascendancy. A crucial decision is required, which will not wait long.

Crossing/opposition: 4 of swords: A difficult card to make sense out of. The "opposition" in this spread appears to be the ceasing of some type of hostility. It could also mean a time of re-grouping, maybe the formation of a new team, or a business shuffle.

Past influence: 3 of swords: The past elements related to this spread have been awful, if a person then this was someone who actively worked secret plans against the querent, that may or may not (see 10 of swords) have come to full fruition. If an activity, then it was painful and debilitating. The sword has divided and sundered.

Past Events: 2 of swords: Recent events have driven two factions (people/departments?) to a standstill, although there can be no clear victor without a outside influence being brought to bear.

Future Influence: King of Swords: Future actions will appear to be judged by an intellect/entity perfectly suited for the task. People will be happy that a decisive guiding force is now handling affairs.

Future events: 10 of swords: But watch out! RUIN, DESTRUCTION, THE REIGN OF MADNESS IS UPON US! A situation that has long festered and run, now swings decisively to the side of ill.

The Self: 7 of disks: This is the time to be extra-vigilant, for this card speaks of avoidable peril, grievous imprudence, castles built on sand, and the hazards of negligence.

The Group: The Devil: This one is a total mess, venal, self-serving and totally obsessed with what’s in it for them. Totally at the expense of the plan or project that is under consideration.

Hopes and Fears: The knight of cups: Enthusiastic, but rarely able to remain in one place for long. This knight is constantly looking for new quests to join. In this position it seems to suggest that shambles either is aware of his wanderlust, and cautions him not to rush blindly down the first path available, or that by this opposite of thought, that the grass really is greener and he needs to make the move now. Owing to the rest of the spread, i think the former is more likely.

The Outcome: The king of cups: Predictably, for such a dire reading, the last card is actually very good. Or is it? This charismatic, enlightened personification shows affection, in his own eccentric way and is beloved by many - even if they find him a tad aloof at times. Weighed in the balance, his love of culture, independent thinking, his continual struggles against the forces of anarchy bring him many adherents and admirers. So it seems that everything is going to work out fine, crazily; against seemingly all the odds. But if you read the king as a warning against impossible dreams, and a caution against the profligate squandering of resources then the meaning is quite different...
This person has reminded me that it would be, as others on thread have pointed out, rather irresponsible to base an important personal decision on an online tarot consultation, or indeed any fortune-telling hocus pocus, and I could not agree more, of course.

I'd be very interested to hear anyone else's views on this spread, by pm if you prefer, and also, naturally, feedback from shambles as to what, if anything, seems to make some sense out of it all.
 
My only real disagreement with the above interpretation would be that, although the 'story' of the suit in this deck is pretty grim looking, I read Swords more elementally than traditionally, so they do not always mean troubles but relate to the mental/intellectual realm.
I agree that the 3 and the 10 are pretty nasty, but in my reading of the spread (past on the right, future on the left) they are both history, and, as I said above, the only saving grace of the 10 is that it just can't get any worse.
The 2s always have a sort of 'something's going to have to happen' feeling about them, so the 'future' card here for me echoes the 'principle' or 'querant'. By my reading, the reversal is potentially problematic - perhaps the wrong decision, or having the choice taken away/made for you?

I agree that the 3 and 10 of swords, coupled with the Devil in the 'environment' position could well indicate some very malicious goings on indeed from those around the querant, which is what makes me think they might well want to get well away. The Kings in the future positions to me seem to speak of a positive outcome, although I agree they can have a sense of 'over doing it' about them), and I read the flighty Knight as being relevant to the question, they're pretty dynamic and a lot of people use them to mean message or journey. This position is always hard to read - is it a hope or a fear? - is the challenge to embrace or avoid the essence of the card?

I very much respect this alternative interpretation, however, it is much more circumspect than mine and, apart from my alternate positioning of past and future (which I admit is idiosyncratic, but was intended, and does make quite a difference) I don't have any problem with bowing to a greater talent :D
 
Well done lizard, this must have taken you quite a while. Hats off to you :p

I don't have much experience with Tarot, I've got a pack, but really only play about for my own interest. When I do this I seem to get a 'feel' for the spread, like if it's a positive or negative one, befor I turn to my crib book. (which I rely on heavily I should add). But often I find that I seem to read into the individual cards my first instinct of the whole spread.

Befor you examined each card, did you already get some sense of the whole, and do you think it influenced your reading of the individual cards?
 
Many thanks, both to Lizard23 and to the poster who wishes to remain anonymous. Very interesting indeed. I have some comments and questions which will have to wait until this evening.

Thanks again for your input, and rest assured I'll not be basing my decision on this reading, but it is fascinating nonetheless.
 
Ta, Cultjunky.
Like most things in life it took much longer to get around to doing than to actually do.
Before I even turned over a card I was hoping for/expecting the 2 of Wands and possibly the 8 of Swords as these seemed to me to capture the 'feel' of the question .... so yes, I had expectations which must, of course, have influenced my interpretations.

I turn over each of the cards in order and have a little think about each one before going to the next, then consider the overall 'look' of the spread, then go back and jot down the meaning for each card as seems most relevant to the question, position and whole.

To be honest, this spread initially looked a bit of a mess, with no coherent story immediately jumping out at me, especially was there are a few court cards in key positions, which I find very difficult to read, so I had to work a bit at trying to link everything together. All those Swords rather hit me in the face ... if I get a lot of a particular suit or number in a spread that will influence how I read it before I really examine each card.
I do usually have a feel for a 'positive or negative' reading very early on, but it is much easier when reading for yourself. In this case it was quite difficult to get that 'feel' at all, and I plumped for a positive interpretation because of what I perceived as a sense of movement in the spread, with troublesome cards in past positions and better ones in future positions.

I use my own 'crib book' quite a bit - it started years ago with a page for each card with a few notes from the little booklet that came with the cards and was added to as I looked at various tarot websites, read books and went through a series of meditations and pathworthing visualisations with the tarot as part of my magic(k)al training as well as insights gained through use, so there are various qabalistic/astrological/geographical/calendar etc etc notes as well as lots of odd little personal associations for each card now ...... but it still mostly comes down to the fairly obvious symbolism of the card unless I'm really having to torture the thing to make some sense of it!

One of the things I personally would like to get out of this would be to be able to add other people's thoughts to my notes for the cards, which I've already been able to do, thanks to our anonymous contributor's excellent reading of those pesky court cards.

/edit/ ... looking forward to your thoughts, shambles. :)
(hmm, it just occured to me .... you're not recently divorced or fighting over a will or something are you? It just occured to me that that would very much explain the heartache, backstabbing, unreturned investment and venal group thing going on. :( )
 
Okay, thanks again for this...some of the reading(s) and the cards make sense, some are just plain confusing. Here're some of my thoughts. (A storm is brewing outside, which makes for a nice atmosphere :) )

1) The Principle: Sums up the issue nicely, doesn't it?

2)Crossing: An aspect of this card is a period of secluded rest, recuperation. I have spent the last three months recovering from pretty major surgery (I had a metal rod and plate in my leg after a very nasty break.) The similarity between the rod and the sword made me smile.

3)Foundation: I find it irresistible to link this to my metal rod also. The symbolism is just too good. Our anonymous reader wrote
If an activity, then it was painful and debilitating.
. I'm no expert..would a physical event such as a broken leg fit?

4) Direction/Future: I like the appearance of this card here: I'll come back to this at the end if I may. Lizard23 and anon's interpretations both make sense.

5) as Past Events: I'm getting sick of saying this, but the old leg seems to fit. It was a biggie. The worst injury I've had to date.

5) as Future Events: I dread to think.

6) As Future Events: The reversal, suggesting the end of a period of calm makes sense as I am now getting over the leg, working again, and considering the future.

6) As Past Events: Works here too. Taken as either past or future, I think this card could best be summed up by 'darling you've got to let me know/should I stay or should I go?'. I think the blindfold clearly represents my own indescision.

7) Self: Again, this is my quandry in a nutshell. Except it's not particularly materially driven, as the pentacles would suggest.

8) Environment/Group/External: I was shocked at the appearance of this card here. I can think of three possibilities: The lecturing post is very much linked to acute mental health, and I would be specialising in Child and Adolescent Mental Health. Or, The negative associations I have of Asia and it's easy access to hedonistic pursuits which I have struggled with in the past (cheap booze and drugs, nothing more sinister, I hasten to add, but beleive me, it can be enough. From what I know of Singapore and it's prohibitive drug and alcohol laws, I'm not sure this would be a problem,) Or, something I have no knowlege of as yet, for example an utterly horrible bunch of colleagues.

9) Challenge/Hopes/Fears: Glad to see this card. It seems to pop up a lot. I generally think of it as me (I'm a very pisces pisces) and it seems quite apt in this case, cautiously moving forward. The resonance with October/November is spot on, as that is when I'd be required to start the post.

10) Ta-Da!: A powerful male figure in the element of water is a contradiction but one that would make a lot of sense in terms of the situation..and a very attractive reading..but so would anon's reading.

Phew!

Here's what I've got from combining the 2 readings with my own. I can't ignore the profusion of cards that seem to reflect my own situation. 1, 6 and 7 seem to reflect my quandry precisely, and the sword cards appear, to me at least, to refer to my life-stopping injury and subsequent surgery,with a humour and wit that I have come to recognise and appreciate fondly in matters of the unconcious. I love the analogy between the sword piercing the flesh in the more horrific cards and the titanium rod I now have in my body. I would be interested to know if the information about the surgery makes more sense of the spread to Lizard23 and our much appreciated anonymous reader.

By far the most important card for me in the spread is the King of Swords. It was when reflecting on this card that I made my decision regarding this quandry. I am going to apply for the job, and go from there. This way, I am moving forward, I'll see what that action brings, and from that information, I can choose further. The cautious aspect of the Knight of Cups reinforces this.

That decision might seem a bit obvious, but I was in a place where I was being prevented from even making the application through indecision. (2 of Swords?)

Blimey. It's not fortune telling, folks. But it is a bloody good way of focussing on the issue at hand.
 
Blimey, well, first impressions, yes, your recent medical problems seem to fit rather well don't they?
Our anonymous friend suggested a bad working environment, I was thinking a bad relationship and/or mental breakdown, but being pinned down with spikes doesn't get much more literal than for your situation! I think it fits great - we'll wait and see what our friend says :)

Interesting that you identify with the Knight of Swords [edit - CUPS!!! I'm confusing myself now!] - again the 'challenge' position is so hard to read ... is it a sign to trust yourself or be wary of yourself? :?

Incidentally, if you look on the 'puzzling dreams' thread you will find a post from me this morning that I'm now doubly curious about!

Blimey. It's not fortune telling, folks. But it is a bloody good way of focussing on the issue at hand.
Precisely :)
 
_Lizard23_ said:
Incidentally, if you look on the 'puzzling dreams' thread you will find a post from me this morning that I'm now doubly curious about!

:shock:

show off! :D

I was out of my brains on morphine for 5 days..were you the mountain climbing monkey on the medicine trolley?
 
Depending on when it was, I may actually have been up a mountain with the monkeys on opium (about a year ago)! ;)

I did say I was having just about every possible dream this week. This one stood out mainly because it was so distressing, the person in question is in the medical profession themself and I found it quite upsetting that they were so distressed and in pain and had not reacted correctly to the injury (by walking when they shouldn't or something).
I just happened to be in the hospital due to ... you guessed it ... a mental breakdown, heh.
 
I find that most tarot interpretation guides skimp on the possibility of physical interpretations. The two of pentacles is a recurring feature of my layouts - I swear it appears in every third layout, sometimes more often. Ryder-Waite calls it a card of "gaiety, recreation, and its connexions" , but also as "news and messages in writing as obstacles, agitation, embroilment." This has never made any sense in any context. Z. Budapest says "Two major sources of income juggled. Two projects balanced against each other. The artist's way of making a living. It is a good card; existence without boredom." Since I write and am constantly juggling life elements, this works fairly often, but in some layouts it was nonsense or just not helpful. Another book has a long list of "key phrases" for this card, like "financial game through ingenuity," "profitable partnership or marriage," "unusual courtship," "way-out ideas," "serious responsibility leading to mental strain," and so on.

What it really usually means in my layouts is "vertigo or feeling really crappy due to balance issues." I have an incurable inner ear condition with a major effect on my life. But nobody who didn't know me would ever come up with that interpretation based on published meanings for the card.

Glad the leg's better and the swords didn't mean what they always mean in my life (gloom, doom, death, and despair - I hate seeing swords in my layouts). Forced physical inactivity is bound to make you restless, too - no wonder you feel like moving jobs.
 
Yeah I often forget physical in favour of financial with the Discs - the other interpretation was closer than mine, really, with the 'business problems', at least that's a bit more 'earthy'.
All the 2s are a bit unstable though, as far as I'm concerned ... you can't juggle or hold two swords over your head forever, however much fun it is!

I do try and be positive about the Swords with this elemental mental realm stuff - but my personal pain is the 9, 'the long dark night of the Swords' as I call it ... brrrrrrrr.
 
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