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Teaching Atheism & Critical Thinking In RE

lopaka said:
Though it wasn't addressed to me, I'll take a shot. I would guess that for the vast majority of public (government) school students in the US, "the Pilgrims left England because of religious persuction" is the sum total of knowledge they get about religion in school. Public schools are ideally very much of a locally control institution, so in theory one could get a lot or no, lousy or good, religious education depending on the type of community one lived in. In practice, I'd imagine that *any* attempt to institute an R.E. class, no matter how broad and well designed, would die in a firestorm of criticism and lawsuits (from every group you could think of).

That's scary. I've always been vaguely for separation of Church and State, but it seems like in the US the schools are almost denying that religion exists. I think the school system itself should be religiously neutral (i.e. not pushing Christianity or Islam or aetheism, come to that) but that schools should be able to teach about religion at the level of what people believe and things of that nature.

Similarly there's the recent ban on the wearing of religious symbols in schools in France, which has upset the Muslim community there and seems utterly silly to me. I don't see why church and state being separate means that children shouldn't be allowed to express their beliefs.

Question back to my UK friends. At what age is R.E. required? For how many years? Until what age? Does it differ depending on if the youth are on a Uni track education?


Don't know - I went to a Catholic school and it was compulsory the whole way through, right up to the end of A-levels. I don't think that's the case in most schools though.

My experience of schools in the UK (and I wasn't always at a Catholic school) is that they all at least vaguely claim affiliation with some branch of Christianity, usually the Church of England, and that they often have a brief prayer as part of their daily routine, in addition to RE lessons. But I'm a few years out of date now.
 
gl5210 said:
Or maybe call it the history of religions. Still someone in the states would sue.

I'd've thought the Church/State separation thing was intended to promote freedom of speech, not prevent it. Funny how things can get twisted around.
 
Some primary schools are non-denominational and teach nothing about RE where as some are specifically church schools, IE Cof E, Catholic and they have RE interwoven into their assemblies and lesson time.

Most senior schools teach it from 11-14 and then it can be taken as an option or dropped never to rear it's head again.
 
Paranormal studies on the sylabbus

Open eyes, minds, necessary in science

May I Have A Word?

By Sarah Taylor
March 24, 2004


ISU offers a multitude of options when it comes to choosing a path of study. Whether one aspires to be a pilot, an actor, a marketing executive or a gym teacher, your trade can be learned here. However, one option not found described between the pages of the course catalog is that of paranormal studies.

WAIT! Though I detect the turning of pages, I implore the reader to continue. I'm not petitioning the university to establish a crop circles major or a telekinesis minor. I am, however, using such subjects to illustrate a larger point: that science doesn't advance as efficiently as it could when assumptions are substituted for unbiased investigation, or when minds are unjustifiably closed.

To start, a review of some examples from the past.

First of all and perhaps most relevant to this particular continent - Italian explorer Christopher Columbus. He ignored the prevailing flat-Earth consensus, and as a result you are reading the Indiana Statesman instead of, say, the Luxembourgian Statesman.

Nicolaus Copernicus is another now-immortalized visionary. The Aristotelian view of the universe was the accepted celestial dogma of his time, and it held that the Earth was the stationary center of universe and that the other bodies revolved around it. Copernicus, though, postulated a universe in which the Earth and the other planets revolved around the fixed point of the Sun. Such ideas were revolutionary in the face of centuries of adherence to a geocentric model; an adherence based more on the reputation of Aristotle and the approval of the church than on sound astronomical observation and calculation.

As a friend brought to my attention, the somewhat forgotten "father of electricity", Nikola Tesla, was another who put forth considerations ignored by the reigning "establishment." Electrical engineer and physicist Robert Lomas writes, "Tesla's idea that gravity is a field effect is now taken more seriously than Einstein took it ... The attack he made on Einstein's work was considered outrageous by the scientific establishment of the time, and only now do we have enough understanding of gravity to realize that he was right."

And, to turn to the field of archaeology, there is the example of Heinrich Schliemann. The German grocer-turned-archaeologist dreamt of locating the ancient city of Troy, then widely believed to be only mythical. Schliemann, however, successfully discovered and excavated the allegedly non-existent city in the latter half of the 19th century.

The above examples yield a point as true today as it was in times past: we don't know all there is to know. Despite repeated dismantling, the opposite assertion, at least in certain contexts, still thrives today. It's a precept that becomes truly unacceptable when it acts as a roadblock to achieving a fuller understanding of the universe that surrounds us.

I began this column by mentioning "unexplained" phenomena because I believe some of these occurrences remain unexplained in part due to the prolonged scorn of the scientific community. This scorn has persisted despite that community's obvious dedication to discovery in other avenues. Admittedly, many crop circles are hoaxed and perhaps many a spoon has been bent as a result of sideshow magic instead of mental effort. However, what of that one case in ten which resists all attempts at conventional explanation? We cannot discern the inner workings of such examples if those best equipped to investigate them write off strange occurrences merely on the grounds of their strangeness.

And it must be added that, though many may well turn out to be so, the true explanations need not necessarily be out of this world. In recent years, a "Poltergeist Machine," consisting of various contraptions emitting electromagnetic radiation, has been able to duplicate many of the effects of the poltergeist phenomenon. These effects had previously been attributed to disembodied spirits, the inner turmoil of disturbed youth, and various other rather ethereal causes.

Quantum theory, a now-accepted tenet of modern physics, is bizarre. According to the late Nobel-prize-winning physicist Richard Feynman, "It is safe to say that no one understands quantum mechanics." And we still don't completely grasp it; the behavior of microparticles has astounding implications for our conception of macroreality. Yet we continue to try to further our understanding. Scientists haven't abandoned the matter due to preconceived notions regarding its impossibility or its oddness or anything else, and society hasn't labeled those promoting further study of the topic as members of a "fringe" element unworthy of serious attention.

So, as the above example illustrates, both science and society have the ability to be unbiasedly open-minded in the face of enigmas. However, that ability has been allowed to atrophy in regard to certain observed phenomena, phenomena just as worthy of a close look as more accepted subjects of study. Universally speaking, this is simply not a useful attitude, whether the issue in question is global warming or UFOs.

Skepticism is justified; replacing careful research and impartial investigation with presupposition and ridicule is not.

http://www.indianastatesman.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/03/24/4061002662c9b
 
Not a bad article but she brings up the Columbus/flat earth thing again that was invented by Washington Irving - The Greeks new the earth was round.
 
Dang you Austen! I was going to say that!

(or go read Dantes `Divine Comedy` with particular reference to the first, most interesting, part.)
 
The spherical Earth was certainly established in Helenistic times, and was Church doctrine by the time Aquinus got round to slapping out the Summa Theologia in the 13th century.

This business about Christian or Muslim clergy inhabiting a flat (or tabernacle shaped) earth is another example of radical humanists making fools of themselves through a lack of erudition.

But that is the thing about extremists; they seldom read enough and then seldom pay attention to what they read...really, it's as if the Renaissance was just something that happened to other people ;)
 
Austen said:
Not a bad article but she brings up the Columbus/flat earth thing again that was invented by Washington Irving - The Greeks new the earth was round.
That ex-Python Terry Jones is a humanist, rabblerousing, mediævalist and troublemaker, upsetting widely held beliefs like that!

;)
 
AndroMan said:
That ex-Python Terry Jones is a humanist, rabblerousing, mediævalist and troublemaker, upsetting widely held beliefs like that!

;)

Can you be a Humanist and Anti-Renaissance? I suppose so!
 
Just to say I'm pitching at the radical flavour...

Are we speaking of the Renaissance Humanists who were immersed in qabala and alchemical bric-a-brac? ;)

Actually, I adore the Renaissance ideal of being good at everything and functioning on all levels at full throttle...all that Enlightenment stuff can just get stuffed :D
(from my forthcoming book 'All Downhill Since 1650' ;))
 
Problem is, if you try to be a Renaissance Man, you can't get work... The price of being a generalist....
 
True, you will spend much time down the DSS, but you can play the viol, dissect a cadaver, design novel siege engines and describe your day in Alexandrines...:D
 
Hmm...

Personally I 'm more of a child of the Enlightenment
 
Hugo Cornwall said:
Problem is, if you try to be a Renaissance Man, you can't get work... The price of being a generalist....

Or you become an Architect and end up setting up your own multinational bussiness...
 
The Bible is easily available in assorted bookstores and churches across the country.
 
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