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The 15-Minute City Conspiracy

Tempest63 said:
Witham?
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I've walked the defunct Witham to Maldon line so long ago it seems like a different millennium. Oh it is. Never went in to the town though.

Used to have B+W pics but they were in one of the crates that went missing when we moved to the US .
 
Cochise said:
I've walked the defunct Witham to Maldon line so long ago it seems like a different millennium. Oh it is. Never went in to the town though.

Used to have B+W pics but they were in one of the crates that went missing when we moved to the US .
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We got halfway to Maldon, as far as the historic wooden bridge and turned round and walked back along the road.

https://flic.kr/p/2jGmDGB
 
An advantage I can see if the 15 MINUTE CITY CONSPIRACY theory becomes true is that people will re learn to barter instead of relying on currency, so depriving international banks of mass earnings .. and 15 minutes is about the time it takes to walk across a village, not a city so this is a 15 minute village conspiracy theory instead .. which also means people would have more time to interact with each other. I'm into it.
 
I have not seen the 15 Minute City conspiracy here, but give it time.

Ironically, our city has lost services because we are too close to a much larger city. There are much smaller towns within the same radius to the large city that were allowed to keep their services. I am talking about government services such as hospital services, social services. We have to travel minimum 26 kms to access what we had here, as recently as 10 years ago.

As to the carrot vs stick analogy, the stick always allows for a quicker result and less work. The carrot takes more work and time.

The need for changes in infrastructure is obvious, but the financial outlay would be great.

I do think the idea of services for people being close is great. The actual real world feasibility is much more complex.

If the infrastructure were in place, there would be no need for penalties because everything is handy. And the governments, if they were really looking at this need to have citizens' input. What they think will work is always different than what really works. People need to be included.
 
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Trevp666 said:
(just ignore me being picky, but...)
No, IIRC the actual Crowley quote was "There is no law beyond 'Do what thou wilt' - do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law".
His idea being that through encouraging people to follow their own desires, good or bad, that they would be more free, as part of his own doctrine which he named 'Thelema' *.
I expect we've got a thread on Crowley somewhere but I can't be arsed to look.
He probably would have had an interesting opinion on "15 minute cities".

[* In this instance, it related to the self and a persons 'will' to do something, as described in ancient Greek philosophy, the word 'thelema' although rare in Classical Greek, "signifies the appetitive will: desire, sometimes even sexual".
(Early Christian writings occasionally use the word to refer to the human will, and even the will of the Devil, but it usually refers to the will of God.)]
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blessmycottonsocks said:
Crowley's ethos would likely result in anarchy, which I doubt many of us really want.

On the political scale between totalitarianism and libertarianism, I stand rather closer to the latter than the former, but I can see that, if taken to extremes an "anything goes" anarchy would be as ghastly as the other end of the scale with a big brotherish state.
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We are off topic but Crowley’s “Do what thou wilt” wasn’t an invitation to follow your basest desires or to simply embrace hedonism and sod the consequences. It was much more complex than that. “Do what thou wilt” is about following (and thus fulfilling) your purpose. And it’s aimed at a higher, or spiritual, purpose.

Back on topic there is an article on 15 Minute Cities in this week’s Spectator:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-madness-of-low-traffic-neighbourhoods/
 
Sardan2 said:
…there is an article on 15 Minute Cities in this week’s Spectator:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-madness-of-low-traffic-neighbourhoods/
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Excellent article. lt should be required reading for officials, except:

“Traffic levels and pollution levels are being ‘monitored’ while schemes like these are ‘under consultation’, but you can bet they’ll come up with the data they want…”

I once heard this modus operandi described, sardonically and unimprovably, as “Policy-based evidence-making.”

:headbang:

maximus otter
 
Yes. That Spectator article really nailed it.

"drive outside your own local district to a place where you don’t know the weird local rules, and you’ll inevitably make some small mistake and be forced to donate a chunk of money to another borough or county council. This is not just a London and Oxford problem"

this was my experience exactly when visiting Oxford.
On a recent trip to Portsmouth, for Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet, I saw signs warning of imminent restrictions against drivers. So that could soon well be another city to tick off the list of places worth visiting.
 
A friend of mine slipped in the shower 3 days ago, kicking the wall and breaking her big toe.
It turned black, blue and purple and swelled up a bit and as she lives in St Albans she got her friend to give her a lift round to the local St Albans Hospital.
They asked her if she 'had an appointment?'
She replied that how could she possibly have made an appointment in advance of breaking her toe? "I'm not bleedin psychic you know!"
Singularly devoid of humour, the person in the hospital pulled a face, saying something about 'not tolerating abuse' and that St Albans hospital does not have an A & E service any more, just an 'urgent care hub' for appointments only.
Apparently all A & E services for that area are now covered by Watford General Hospital, over 11 miles away and at least 25 minutes drive.
The quickest journey on public transport would be over an hour, including a 15 minute walk to the bus stop and using the 'Green Line' bus service, then changing onto the Watford local bus service, W1 and going several stops, followed by another walk.
All rather difficult to do with a foot injury.
And she still hasn't got it seen to. She's asking people 'online' how best to splint and bandage it.

15 minute city my hairy arse!
Unless they actually provide the necessary services in every area it'll never happen.
And it isn't like St Albans is some crappy little town with a small population.
 
maximus otter said:
Excellent article. lt should be required reading for officials, except:

“Traffic levels and pollution levels are being ‘monitored’ while schemes like these are ‘under consultation’, but you can bet they’ll come up with the data they want…”

I once heard this modus operandi described, sardonically and unimprovably, as “Policy-based evidence-making.”

:headbang:

maximus otter
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It's a methodology beloved of many a totalitarian regime.
 
Trevp666 said:
A friend of mine slipped in the shower 3 days ago, kicking the wall and breaking her big toe.
It turned black, blue and purple and swelled up a bit and as she lives in St Albans she got her friend to give her a lift round to the local St Albans Hospital.
They asked her if she 'had an appointment?'
She replied that how could she possibly have made an appointment in advance of breaking her toe? "I'm not bleedin psychic you know!"
Singularly devoid of humour, the person in the hospital pulled a face, saying something about 'not tolerating abuse' and that St Albans hospital does not have an A & E service any more, just an 'urgent care hub' for appointments only.
Apparently all A & E services for that area are now covered by Watford General Hospital, over 11 miles away and at least 25 minutes drive.
The quickest journey on public transport would be over an hour, including a 15 minute walk to the bus stop and using the 'Green Line' bus service, then changing onto the Watford local bus service, W1 and going several stops, followed by another walk.
All rather difficult to do with a foot injury.
And she still hasn't got it seen to. She's asking people 'online' how best to splint and bandage it.

15 minute city my hairy arse!
Unless they actually provide the necessary services in every area it'll never happen.
And it isn't like St Albans is some crappy little town with a small population.
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The hospital service has, for many years now, been trending towards 'consolidation'. Closing down smaller A and E hospitals and centralising that service into large hospitals. My Mum's nearest hospital (where she once worked) is a walk down the road from her. It used to have its own A and E facility. However...for the past 30 years, certain services, such as A and E, have been moved to Slough (Wexham Park).
So, if she has an emergency, she has to wait for an ambulance to come and take her miles away to Slough. En route, something bad might happen.
This huge distance, coupled with an inadequate ambulance service that arrived several hours late, led to my father's death in 2019.
Is the 15 Minute City idea going to reverse all of that? You know, such as restoring A and E services back to my Mum's local hospital (that now seems to do mostly maternity). I don't think it is. Putting all services within a 15 minute radius does not seem to be the main intention of '15 Minute Cities'.
 
15min.jpg
 
Min Bannister said:
Could end up being true but that would imply that a 15 minute city would be a place so popular and desirable that only rich people could afford to live there.:thought: In which case it should be rolled out much more widely.
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Eh? What about the staff? Where do they live?
If they have to travel into a zone to work, it would cost them more than it's worth (because - fines), thus leading to a big shortage of staff in a 15 minute city.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Eh? What about the staff? Where do they live?
If they have to travel into a zone to work, it would cost them more than it's worth (because - fines), thus leading to a big shortage of staff in a 15 minute city.
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Maybe I explained badly. I was trying to point out that if 15 minute cities are such a terrible thing that must be resisted at all costs, then why would they be so popular as to be too expensive for ordinary people to live in?
 
Min Bannister said:
Maybe I explained badly. I was trying to point out that if 15 minute cities are such a terrible thing that must be resisted at all costs, then why would they be so popular as to be too expensive for ordinary people to live in?
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Hmmm.
I think they'd be nice, comfortable places for the wealthy people. Maybe only for the wealthy people.
Popularity among such a community would force property prices up. They'd like it for its exclusivity... keeping the 'riff-raff' at a safe distance.
The 'haves' versus the 'not-haves'. These wealthy individuals would take on board the idea of being 'zoned' because they can afford electric vehicles.
Some parts of London are already like this.
 
Neil Oliver’s take - available on YouTube, but l won’t provide a link as it’s a bit p*******l - is that 15-Minute Cities are a necessary aspiration to accompany the ghastliness which would be Net Zero.

He believes that the slow strangulation of private car ownership, i.e. free, instant, dependable, versatile personal transport, would have to be paralleled by the promise that 15MCs were “just around the corner”, else how could Our Lords and Masters deprive us of our independence with no risk of a revolt?

We have to be led to believe that we won’t need cars in the New Utopia, before we surrender all of their manifold benefits.

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
We have to be led to believe that we won’t need cars in the New Utopia, before we surrender all of their manifold benefits.
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I'd quite happily do without a car if the government paid me £1 million a year in compensation.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Hmmm.
I think they'd be nice, comfortable places for the wealthy people. Maybe only for the wealthy people.
Popularity among such a community would force property prices up. They'd like it for its exclusivity... keeping the 'riff-raff' at a safe distance.
The 'haves' versus the 'not-haves'. These wealthy individuals would take on board the idea of being 'zoned' because they can afford electric vehicles.
Some parts of London are already like this.
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Yes. Those places are desirable and people want to live in them. So having the "freedom" to be forced to make long and difficult journeys just to get to a GP appointment, a hospital, a bank or to buy some food maybe isn't such a great thing after all?
 
Min Bannister said:
Yes. Those places are desirable and people want to live in them. So having the "freedom" to be forced to make long and difficult journeys just to get to a GP appointment, a hospital, a bank or to buy some food maybe isn't such a great thing after all?
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I give up.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Hmmm.
I think they'd be nice, comfortable places for the wealthy people. Maybe only for the wealthy people.
Popularity among such a community would force property prices up. They'd like it for its exclusivity... keeping the 'riff-raff' at a safe distance.
Click to expand...
Like Monaco is, where the workers are shipped in every day.
 
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