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There's already a car for the 15 minute c̶o̶n̶s̶p̶i̶r̶a̶c̶y city.

https://heycar.co.uk/citroen/ami



Return of the bubble car!

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Haw dare they call that hideous little excuse for a car a Citroën Ami!

This is a Citroën Ami:

ami.png
 
We call them 'the smart car'

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Thinking I should get back on the Harley - can also carry two passengers and probably more luggage. And can probably sneak through all the silly barriers they are erecting - if one of these modern fat pushbikes, electric bikes or scooters can get through likely I can as well. And of course with 'global warming' I won't be freezing my nuts off any more in the winter.
 
It is certainly the case in Oxford that public consultations showed the majority opposed the schemes, as noted in the article I linked to above.

The majority of those who responded to the consultations opposed the schemes but the majority of the electorate elected councillors who openly supported the schemes. Responses to consultations can often be skewed by lobbying and campaigning on either side of the debate.

If the schemes are so unpopular then surely all of the councillors who support the schemes will be voted out of office in the upcoming elections. (Rhetorical question.)

It'll be interesting to see the results.
 
Skating on the thin ice there my friend - IMO sufficiently relevant to avoid the accusation of 'political'.
 
No. Do not get your 'Smart Car' and the 'Ami' confused.
The 'Ami' has been specifically made to fall within the category of 'Voiture Sans Permis' - a classification of vehicle use which limits power and speed so that people who don't hold a full driving licence can get about.
It is used in France and other countries to enable students (and others who might have lost their licence for some reason, or haven't ever bothered to pass a full test) to travel, albeit in less capable vehicles.
So the 'Ami' is essentially what we in the UK would term a 'quadricycle' type of vehicle, whereas the 'Smart Car' is a full sized road going car, but on a small floorplan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classification)
Good to know. I also thought that it is same as smart car. Though, I still cringe and would never drive either in regular traffic. Buses, transport trucks and the like TOWER over these vehicles. I prefer not to become the filling in a sandwich because these are hard to see when vehicles much larger are around.
 
The majority of those who responded to the consultations opposed the schemes but the majority of the electorate elected councillors who openly supported the schemes. Responses to consultations can often be skewed by lobbying and campaigning on either side of the debate.

If the schemes are so unpopular then surely all of the councillors who support the schemes will be voted out of office in the upcoming elections. (Rhetorical question.)

It'll be interesting to see the results.
Not necessarily so. Apathy may be what keeps them in.
However, I think people are now becoming more aware of what is happening.
 
What will this do to property prices in the area?
Commercial property prices will fall as companies move out.
Domestic property prices not affected so much in the big cities, because people are flooding in.
 
The 'Smart Car' is surprisingly (and spectacularly) robust!

I can't find a crash test for the Ami, but this 'short' appears to indicate that in the event of a crash it would fold like a cheap deckchair in a stiff breeze.
In a small car like that, you are the crumple zone.
 
Not necessarily so. Apathy may be what keeps them in.
However, I think people are now becoming more aware of what is happening.

I was wrong the next elections for Oxford City Council is in 2024 when half of the Council seats will be up for election.

The parties who support the schemes have won every election since 2000 either in coalition or single party majority. It's hard to believe that people have been apathetic for so long or that the councillors are so out of touch with majority opinion.

Parties in favour of the schemes hold 47 of the 48 seats, there is 1 independent councillor, I'm not sure if they support the schemes.
 
I was wrong the next elections for Oxford City Council is in 2024 when half of the Council seats will be up for election.

The parties who support the schemes have won every election since 2000 either in coalition or single party majority. It's hard to believe that people have been apathetic for so long or that the councillors are so out of touch with majority opinion.

Parties in favour of the schemes hold 47 of the 48 seats, there is 1 independent councillor, I'm not sure if they support the schemes.
We can't engage further down this avenue of discussion, I think.
Politics n' all that.
 
I was wrong the next elections for Oxford City Council is in 2024 when half of the Council seats will be up for election.

The parties who support the schemes have won every election since 2000 either in coalition or single party majority. It's hard to believe that people have been apathetic for so long or that the councillors are so out of touch with majority opinion.

Parties in favour of the schemes hold 47 of the 48 seats, there is 1 independent councillor, I'm not sure if they support the schemes.
No matter what solution is offered or tried for the overcrowded roads and housing areas, lots of people will not like it because the solution will inconvenience them. The problem is that any solution will never satisfy most people.

I suspect that the UK planners at different levels of government have been thinking through future scenarios and coming up with contingency plans for them. Many of these scenarios will never happen, yet they should be planned for or at least thought about. This is standard risk management. I view this as doing their job, not plotting together as a conspiracy.

Even if public transportation is increased greatly, it still will make many voters unhappy because the maximum constraints (population, total land utilization, budget options, declining GPD per capita) have been or shortly will be reached for the UK. It must be paid for somehow, and individuals having their own cars likely will be constrained.

The conspiracy, from what I can see, is that the public officials have not been having that extremely difficult conversation with the voters for a long time. It is the same in the US.
Or perhaps the conspiracy is that the voters do not wish to acknowledge that they must accept inconveniences. It is the same in the US.

My perspective is socio-cultural, and not political: it is based in my observation of how people dislike making difficult decisions. This dislike is part of human nature and is found in all countries.

Again, for comparison purposes, the US would have to reach almost twice India's current population (2.6 Billion or 1.8x1.4Billion) to have the same population density of 700+/square mile as the UK has currently.

For some ideas of what solutions to implement for the overcrowded roads and poor public transportation, once can easily look at Denmark, the Netherlands, and Belgium. And the amazing sacrifices and changes that the residents made for the good of all.
 
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I was wrong the next elections for Oxford City Council is in 2024 when half of the Council seats will be up for election.

The parties who support the schemes have won every election since 2000 either in coalition or single party majority. It's hard to believe that people have been apathetic for so long or that the councillors are so out of touch with majority opinion.

Parties in favour of the schemes hold 47 of the 48 seats, there is 1 independent councillor, I'm not sure if they support the schemes.
It's not up to local councils to decide yes or no. The LTN directive comes from the government so it will get introduced no matter which parties hold sway.

Also, the full introduction of 15 and 20 minute cities is to be implemented by 2040.
 
No matter what solution is offered or tried for the overcrowded roads and housing areas, lots of people will not like it because the solution will inconvenience them. The problem is that any solution will never satisfy most people.
If only there was some kind of word for a system where the majority vote held sway? And a word for the opposite of that?
 
It's not up to local councils to decide yes or no. The LTN directive comes from the government so it will get introduced no matter which parties hold sway.

Also, the full introduction of 15 and 20 minute cities is to be implemented by 2040.

I don't agree with your interpretation of what is going on, I don't accept that there is a conspiracy at local, national or international level, We will just go around in circles regarding this.

One fact though is that the electorate of Oxford city have consistently voted overwhelmingly for the councillors who support the schemes. That is known as democracy.
 
No. Do not get your 'Smart Car' and the 'Ami' confused.
The 'Ami' has been specifically made to fall within the category of 'Voiture Sans Permis' - a classification of vehicle use which limits power and speed so that people who don't hold a full driving licence can get about.
It is used in France and other countries to enable students (and others who might have lost their licence for some reason, or haven't ever bothered to pass a full test) to travel, albeit in less capable vehicles.
So the 'Ami' is essentially what we in the UK would term a 'quadricycle' type of vehicle, whereas the 'Smart Car' is a full sized road going car, but on a small floorplan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classification)
To be fair though, we don't see very many of these little cars around here, sometimes on regular roads, but never seen one on a highway that I've noticed.
They might be, but rather dangerous I think with speeding traffic and large vehicles and trucks.
Last time I was in England, the 'mini' was very popular - do you still have them?
 
If only there was some kind of word for a system where the majority vote held sway? And a word for the opposite of that?
Very funny!

In the US, some states allow voters to vote on referendums on specific items. These states tend to have a lot more problems with unworkable solutions the majority of self-serving voters have voted in. Vox populi my ass.

"Vote for proposition ABC to freeze property taxes." AND "Vote for proposition XYZ to upgrade schools." Schools are paid for by property taxes. See the problem? I assure you that I am not exaggerating the size of the problem nor minimizing the intellect of the voters.
 
I don't agree with your interpretation of what is going on, I don't accept that there is a conspiracy at local, national or international level, We will just go around in circles regarding this.

One fact though is that the electorate of Oxford city have consistently voted overwhelmingly for the councillors who support the schemes. That is known as democracy.
It's not my interpretation. It's written down in black and white on the net for all to read. It's not a conspiracy theory either. I gave a link to the WEF plans for 15 minute cities. It's planned in other countries as well. It's on the UK governments own website. To be implemented by 2040. Many other cities in the UK have the same plans.

Having said that, I now give up and give in. It's all in my mind and yes, it's all a conspiracy theory.
 
It's not my interpretation. It's written down in black and white on the net for all to read. It's not a conspiracy theory either. I gave a link to the WEF plans for 15 minute cities. It's planned in other countries as well. It's on the UK governments own website. To be implemented by 2040. Many other cities in the UK have the same plans.

Having said that, I now give up and give in. It's all in my mind and yes, it's all a conspiracy theory.

It is your interpretation. The WEF are not the World Government. Nobody is going to be forced to live within a 15 minute zone. Some motorists won't be able to drive wherever they want whenever they want with out paying extra on occasion. As for CCTV, some people were getting hysterical here because one CCTV camera on the exit to a field was out of order, it was some kind of conspiracy.
 
It is your interpretation. The WEF are not the World Government. Nobody is going to be forced to live within a 15 minute zone. Some motorists won't be able to drive wherever they want whenever they want with out paying extra on occasion. As for CCTV, some people were getting hysterical here because one CCTV camera on the exit to a field was out of order, it was some kind of conspiracy.
I don't want to sound rude or be disrespectful. I am not stupid. When governments world wide start repeating slogans of the WEF, it points only one way. 'Build back better' is one example. There are many others. Many current prominent leaders have been through the WEF 'young leaders' training program. I am not interested in a CCTV on a field or something that is something or whatever. I've never heard of it anyway.

The words hidden in plain view spring to mind. The New World Order is another WEF project nearing completion. It's been talked about for years or is that another new conspiracy theory? Like countries globally signing up to a treaty that gives the WHO complete sovereignty over every signatory country about how to run that country during the next pandemic? The next pandemic? Think about it? The next pandemic? Check it out although I doubt any will. I believe the vote in our own UK parliament is in the next few days. I also doubt much will get aired in the MSN. That's how stupid as a society we have become. We question nothing. We accept what we are told like sheep.

Anyway, I am through posting anything further on this. The evidence is all there for anyone to look at. All it takes is a little research even with using google. For some reason, people in general won't do that. It's a mystery to me as to the 'why'. It's not as if it would take days of delving deep into rabbit holes of conspiracy theory. So for myself, I am fed up of trying to point out the blatantly obvious and with links to back it up on this and some other subjects.

15 minute cities is just the tip of the iceberg. Do a little research. Look into it. Keep an open mind. See where the path goes. Follow your own intuition. That's hardly the words of a conspiracy theorist is it?

As posted above, For me, I'm done with this 15 minute cities discussion. I have nothing further to add that has value on here. The truth of it all is coming and what's behind it all, (including Covid and sorry to go off topic). It's just a matter of time.

I'll just stick to Fortean subject matter from now on. Conspiracy on here, or so it seems, although I may be wrong on that, is all about follow the herd. It's not about conspiracy at all and seeking out the truth of the matter. Turn off your TV's and don't watch, listen to or read the news or anything for a least 6 moths. Then things start to come into focus. Can any on here do that? Then ask your self that question honestly and then ask why not?
 
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Seems to me that the 1990's was the decade when local councils appear to have gone bonkers for granting permissions for out of town shopping developments and business parks - seems odd that they'd be planning to do precisely the opposite at the same time.

I'm often astounded that when people talk of the "death of the high street" - a very real phenomenon, that this ever comes up. Even small towns have "retail areas" consisting of a 24hr supermarket with a store footprint equivalent to, or larger than all the shops on the actual high street. And often other retail units, sometimes the same size.
 
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I'll just stick to Fortean subject matter from now on. Conspiracy on here, or so it seems, although I may be wrong on that, is all about follow the herd. It's not about conspiracy at all and seeking out the truth of the matter. Turn off your TV's and don't watch, listen to or read the news or anything for a least 6 moths. Then things start to come into focus. Can any on here do that? Then ask your self that question honestly and then ask why not?

I don't own a TV and haven't in over a decade. There is worse misinformation online than on TV, though obviously people disagree as to what is and isn't disinformation.
 
...Do a little research. Look into it. Keep an open mind. See where the path goes. Follow your own intuition. That's hardly the words of a conspiracy theorist is it?...

When used to imply that others have not done any of those things, the sole evidence for which accusation is the fact that their conclusions do not concur with ones own, they might be precisely the words of a conspiracy theorist.
 
The vaccines didn't/don't work - fact.
The lock downs didn't work - fact.
Your sources for this?
Power cuts are on the cards in the UK - fact. I've even had an email from my energy provider Powergen about it.
Food shortages are happening here - fact.
Yes. But - what has this got to do with local planning debates?
My point is this. The very same 'They' who allowed those redevelopments are the very same 'They' who want to introduce 15 minute cities.
This is the crux of it. I have been following the 15 minute city thing as Bristol is a prime candidate so it's big in local media. I think many have looked at the theory - that city planners went bananas for three decades prioritising car use over everything, and now are drastically having to backtrack - and construed it as an attack on personal liberty. As you yourself point out in the cited post, a few decades ago when car ownership was proportionally less retail and amenities were by necessity sited close to the communities they served or in town centres which were accessible by public transport from all districts. Then, as you yourself point out local authorities started encouraging out of town shopping as more people were independently mobile - more roads were built, often involving the demolition of swathes of housing and former retail areas, etc etc - and town centres and local shops, esp independents withered. And that's where we are. Problem is it's unsustainable on several fronts: fewer young people are driving, or at least buying cars, there is a real, societal move towards localism and then there's Net Zero, which is a real international target.

This argument is indeed nothing new. Local example - there's a huge, Georgian square in Bristol called Queen Square. Lovely architecture, greenery, trees and benches. It hosts events, food and music festivals, popular and appreciated. Between 1960 and 1991, however, it was bisected by a full sized dual carriageway. Nobody in their right mind lingered there as the air was permanently exhaust laden, the buildings black and the trees sickly. The council decided to divert the road and restore the park, to general appreciation however the outcry from the car lobby was deafening, citing.. well, infringement of their rights, liberties, "It's Orwellian!!!" etc etc. Thirty years on many can't even remember this. The road concerned has been incrementally moved further and further away from the old city and into a more sensible route where the only demolition involved has been 50s & 60s concrete. Most accept it, however the "but my car!!" section is as vocal as ever. My point is that these changes are generational. Equating new directions in town planning with dystopian prophecy doesn't usually come off.
If the schemes are so unpopular then surely all of the councillors who support the schemes will be voted out of office in the upcoming elections. (Rhetorical question.)
Agreed, rhetorically. As usual the variables involved make a sinister masterplan very unlikely to succeed, but don't let that get in the way.
No matter what solution is offered or tried for the overcrowded roads and housing areas, lots of people will not like it because the solution will inconvenience them. The problem is that any solution will never satisfy most people.
Exactly. There's a very vocal sector who will take anything that involves a need for shifts in societal attitudes and conflate it with some evil-plan to restrict everyone's liberty, because it inconveniences them in some way. In fact, as above, what they want to reduce the reliance on long-distance car journeys by making currently out-of-town facilities reachable on foot, cycle or public transport within 15 minutes. That's all it is, but the CTs will inevitably see it as step one towards quarantine because that's how they see everything.
 
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