The Abolition Of Cash

[Endlessly Amazed]

1. I’m Scottish and live in the UK. (Relevance?)
2. I can’t put any store in a constitution that permits ordinary citizens the right to own assault weapons, and equally doesn’t protect the lives of innocent schoolchildren.
3. My comment was perfectly clear.

Those who make statements about being “informed“, which insinuates that everyone else is not “informed “ comes across as paranoia.
Seems fairly simple to me. Sorry if I didn’t go into a rambling 500 word , in depth analysis , but sometimes less is more.

p.s- I didn’t realise there was a probation period on here or a limitation on interaction until I had “served my time”.

Thank you for your response. I asked about your nationality and country of residence because a few of our European colleagues are comfortable commenting on US situations in a way which indicates that they are not well-versed in US law and the constitution. If the situation was reversed, I would hesitate to comment on an aspect of UK or Scottish law and traditions, especially in a way which would likely offend or wound someone. (In fact, I once asked what a tea towel was.)

I am sure your comment was clear to you; however, others may wish for clarification; whatever length is necessary would be good.

Here is an example of a “personal” comment: you know I live in the US; and you write, in response to a posting by me, that “I can’t put any store in a constitution that permits ordinary citizens the right to own assault weapons, and equally doesn’t protect the lives of innocent schoolchildren.” This certainly seems both targeted and critical – in other words, personal.

PS - No, there is no probation period here. If you have any questions about the forum, you only have to ask.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Imagine if we went over completely to digital money, something like this could happen:

 

[Bullseye]

China is now experimenting with it's digital currancy to have an expiry date on it, so you can only spend and not save !.
Don't forget most goverments look at China and wonder if they can get away with the same tricks.

Bank of England and Goverment and "those with a vested interest" are in talks about digital currancy to decide if it's viable to control what you could spend your money on. When cash is abolished just think of what you could'nt do. No little stash of hidden money for emergencies. No discount for cash. Beggers and junkies would have to get card readers !.
Now think of who could control what you could spend. NHS food and drink to suit you medical history "Cream cakes and a bottle of wine, sorry sir, NHS says no". Instant removal of funds for fines and any payments to local goverment or big business. Been an awkward citizen?, try getting your money then.
Think all this and more can't happen?, when have those in power not tried to control their populations as much as they can. Last couple of years might give you an inkling of what Goverments love doing.

 

[Stormkhan]

I've always considered discussions like these another strand of the concept of "We don't want this technology as our government could misuse it." I'm not denying this idea - I'm deeply cynical when it comes to our government and it's political system - but isn't one 'solution' to the potential for misuse is to put in checks and balances against this?
Isn't the solution changing the government system rather than trying the impossible and stopping "the march of progress"?
And if the belief is that there is no governmental system that you can trust, well ... you're complaining with no suggestion of solution.

 

[Bullseye]

My solution would be, Don't get rid of Cash.
We don't want this technology because our goverment WILL misuse it.

 

[Stormkhan]

So you have no control over your government?

Bear in mind, I'm not anti-cash; it will remain for as long as it's useful, regardless of what banks think. Consider the cheque/check. They remain (just about) but are in decline because a) paper waste, b) losses in the postal system (which in itself is under pressure), c) the stupid length of time it needs to clear. Though c) is the reluctance of the bank to speed up the process itself.

 

[Cochise]

So you have no control over your government?

I think after the last three years the answer to that is obvious. No, we don't have any control over our governments. All they have to do is declare an emergency and they can do what the heck the like, including passing measures into law with no scrutiny whatsoever. It matters not whether these powers are used for 'good' - it's too much power for anyone.

 

[RaM]

Well they have abolished cash in our village no cash machines working for
the last two days that I know of nearest ones are about 20/25 mile round trip
and there's no guarantee they are working, looks like someone as beat the
crap out of one of them, be interesting to see how long they are off for.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Well they have abolished cash in our village no cash machines working for
the last two days that I know of nearest ones are about 20/25 mile round trip
and there's no guarantee they are working, looks like someone as beat the
crap out of one of them, be interesting to see how long they are off for.

I am now withdrawing the max amount from cash machines when I go shopping.
There's no telling when they'll decide to remove the machines.

 

[escargot]

Well they have abolished cash in our village no cash machines working for
the last two days that I know of nearest ones are about 20/25 mile round trip
and there's no guarantee they are working, looks like someone as beat the
crap out of one of them, be interesting to see how long they are off for.

Cash machines are sometimes ripped out of walls. This happened in my town a few years ago.

 

[Sid]

China is now experimenting with it's digital currancy to have an expiry date on it, so you can only spend and not save !.
Don't forget most goverments look at China and wonder if they can get away with the same tricks.

I suppose it will very much depend on exactly how long the digital expiry date is determined?
After checking online, UK, it appears a Bank will only hold on to your unused A/C money, from three up to five years!
https://www.mybanktracker.com/news/inactive-bank-accounts

 

[Mythopoeika]

I suppose it will very much depend on exactly how long the digital expiry date is determined?
After checking online, UK, it appears a Bank will only hold on to your unused A/C money, from three up to five years!
https://www.mybanktracker.com/news/inactive-bank-accounts

When did that rule come in?
Why do people put their money into savings accounts? This seems to incentivise people to keep their money out.

 

[charliebrown]

The U.S. Treasury claims they will never use polymer plastic folding money, but always linen paper.

Just curious, how well does the UK polymer plastic money work in general circulation ?

Does it stand up to the wear and tear ?

 

[rmr975]

I don't worry about going cashless, it's more that you have to have different apps to do anything/ everything. I had to download an app for car parking in one Cotswolds village (took 20 mins with lots of error messages just to register) but then the car parking in Suffolk used a different app.

 

[Ermintruder]

The U.S. Treasury claims they will never use polymer plastic folding money, but always linen paper.

Interesting- why would this he?

Just curious, how well does the UK polymer plastic money work in general circulation ?

In the UK, use of banknotes & coins has not rebounded back to pre-Covid levels, but I can see no real reluctance to using plasticised banknotes. Bank tellers are less keen, as doing their riffle-count stunts is more difficult. And when carried in a wallet (Bringlish for 'billfold') these modern post-paper notes are very...springy. Reluctant to fold. Very strong..

Does it stand up to the wear and tear ?

Far too well! It will last forever

 

[Stormkhan]

I am now withdrawing the max amount from cash machines when I go shopping.
There's no telling when they'll decide to remove the machines.

In our town, the only bank branch we had was closed five years ago. Now, we have the Post Office (where you can draw out over the counter) and four ATMs: one outside a Spar convenience store, two outside a Tesco and one inside a Heron branch.
The trouble comes on summer season weekends and bank holidays, when at least one of them runs out of cash.
The Post Office was moved, the old building having an external cash machine which was obviously withdrawn. It's now a bar. The old bank building ... is now a bar. So, more places to spend lots of money but less places to access it. No wonder all the pubs here take card payments.

 

[RaM]

If you remember the Nat West add "we will never close the last branch in town"
well that was filmed at our bank, shortly after they closed it and several others
in near by towns, we have at least 4 cash machines about the place the two I
tried are displaying a system fault, so there likely all off.
The agreement for post offices to deal with road fund licences ends soon so
if that is not renewed it will be on line or post only, they don't seem to take
into consideration not everyone is on line.

 

[Mythopoeika]

The U.S. Treasury claims they will never use polymer plastic folding money, but always linen paper.

Just curious, how well does the UK polymer plastic money work in general circulation ?

Does it stand up to the wear and tear ?

It seems to be better than the paper cash, although it doesn't fold as easily.

 

[Stormkhan]

Then again, many people like the convenience of doing stuff online.

 

[Mythopoeika]

The agreement for post offices to deal with road fund licences ends soon so
if that is not renewed it will be on line or post only, they don't seem to take
into consideration not everyone is on line.

WTF!

 

[Stormkhan]

Well, the 'road fund licence' i.e. vehicle tax isn't represented by a paper disk any more. It's recorded online so ...
And, yes, I understand that many people don't 'do' online. But that's the reasoning behind it, I'm sure.

 

[Sid]

When did that rule come in?
Why do people put their money into savings accounts? This seems to incentivise people to keep their money out.

***Correction to my post #281;
That should have read. . . [After checking online, 'US,' it appears a Bank will only hold on to your unused A/C money, from three up to five years!]
However, after checking online with the 'UK' version, I see it's a bit different, in that it states via 'money expert' that - This could be anywhere from a year to 15 years depending on the bank in question’s policy.
as quoted from: https://www.moneyexpert.com/current-account/dormant-bank-accounts/#Unclaimed Funds

 

[RaM]

The way I understand it in the UK is that after a number of years with no activity on a account
they suspend it, it does not accrue interest and so on, but at any time the owner of that account
can have it re activated what happens to it if the owner as died or just forgotten about it or thier
estate does not know about it I don't know.

 

[Sid]

The way I understand it in the UK is that after a number of years with no activity on a account
they suspend it, it does not accrue interest and so on, but at any time the owner of that account
can have it re activated what happens to it if the owner as died or just forgotten about it or thier
estate does not know about it I don't know.

Probably falls into the coffers of the Government at some stage?

 

[eburacum]

Probably falls into the coffers of the Government at some stage?

This is a good thing, since the banks owed the UK billions of pounds after the bailouts in 2009.

 

[Mythopoeika]

This is a good thing, since the banks owed the UK billions of pounds after the bailouts in 2009.

Is it? They'll just spaff it away on something nobody wanted.
Far better that the family of the account owner gets it, if the account owner has died.

 

[eburacum]

If anyone dies without heirs then the banks would normally keep the money; better the government gets some of this back.

There is, of course, an entire industry based around fraudulent promises of inherited money from non-existent distant relatives.

 

[rmr975]

Probably falls into the coffers of the Government at some stage?

There's the Dormant Assets Scheme in the UK.

 

[AnonyJ]

Something to think about here - whenever there's a card transaction someone (bank, payment service company, credit card etc.,) takes a small commission - let's say 1.6% (because that's what we pay in our v small one-vehicle rural taxi business). If (say) £10 is paid on a card, rather than cash to a vendor, 'their' £10 is now £9.84. Then if that vendor then pays that to another service or business that one now receives £9.68. And so on until that £10 now = £0.00 or very near-as-dammit.

It only takes 6 card transactions at 1.6% for that £10 to now be £9, a service has creamed off 10% already! It does not take a brainbox to realise that financial institutions have a vested interest in discouraging cash use.

If one pays £10 cash then the full value is paid forward and through the local economy and even after a hundred transactions using cash the £10 will be worth a tenner without the bank/card company taking a cut.

We use cash for as much as we can for our local circular economy and the cards for the big corporations. I also take great delight in not using self-service checkouts, cancelling an order if cash is not accepted, buying some big thing on a credit card then paying off the whole lot in cash!

 

[Stormkhan]

If anyone dies without heirs then the banks would normally keep the money; better the government gets some of this back.

As far as I'm aware, any property (i.e. realised value) of someone who dies intestate goes to the "Duchy of Lancaster" i.e. an account in the Chancellery.

We use cash for as much as we can for our local circular economy and the cards for the big corporations. I also take great delight in not using self-service checkouts, cancelling an order if cash is not accepted, buying some big thing on a credit card then paying off the whole lot in cash!

I don't doubt your motives at all, but another issue are the firms who like cash not to keep it out of the 'banks hands' or keep it in circulation, but because sums of money can be kept off the books.
Someone I know ran a small but successful antiques shop. Prices anything from £5 to £500. When we asked why he didn't take card payments, especially for the higher value stuff, he said his accountant recommended he didn't. "Besides, there's an ATM around the corner."
After several interested customers left "to get some cash from the machine" and didn't return, he reconsidered. When nearly all his money was going through his accounts, his accountant did a runner. Turns out, the accountant was taking cash off the record.
Your point about banks 'earning; the percentage per transaction is a fair one. After a lot of changes, we settled for a system which allowed you to buy a handset outright (so no rental fees) and any sum taken was transferred directly through to your bank account (avoiding any escrow service fees), after taking off a tiny percentage for the service.
If you consider the percentage coming off your profits, as long as you still make a profit, it's an affordable option. We were happy to take for 50p items, because the transaction fee was so small. And - a very nice touch - was you could access your service online, at any time, and you could see how much had been taken, what fees were taken, and all totals in real time.