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The Almas

I took an expedition into this exact are in 2008.We met many almasty witnesses including the deputy head of the areas national parks. Gregory Panchenko, or guide and a respcted Ukranian biologist had see almasties on three occations, Anatoly, an archelogist alo with us had seen the creature.
We were told of semi-tame almasties that had lived on remot farms. The last of them werearound in the 20' / 30s. One witness said he he had fed beard to a young almasty several years before our visit.
I think i may have come to within 12 feet of an almasty whilst staking out an abandoned farm near Nutrino. Something approxamatly 7 feet tall and moving on two legs passed by a door that was ajar and letting in moonlight and starlight.
Gregory says there is a strong taboo against hunting or shooting almasties in the Cacausus. Local people seem to except them as real creature but do not hunt them as the recoginize their 'human' status.
I think the creaure is an unknown descendent of Homo erectus.
 
Gregory says there is a strong taboo against hunting or shooting almasties in the Cacausus. Local people seem to except them as real creature but do not hunt them as the recoginize their 'human' status.

This is what I was alluding to earlier - nobody has ever shot one and tried selling the body to the highest bidder because nobody ever wanted to. One of the linked sites includes the story of a big game hunter in Africa who encountered 2 small hairy humanoids:- he wanted to shoot but his local guides refused to allow it out of regard for these beings.
Thanks for posting Lordmongrove, there really are too many accounts for there not to be something anomalous out there. :)
 
Much interesting material has come about, on this thread. I am unfortunately one of the most computer-clueless computer-owners on the planet – totally lack knowledge of how to do links.

If one is registered with bigfootforums.com: a thread, initiated 4th Nov. 2008, on their “General Discussion” sub-forum (easily attained via their efficient search facility), entitled “ ‘BF’ – Human Relations – Shocking Report” (not in fact very shocking, unless one is horrified-highly-big-time by the idea of sexual relations between hom. sap. sap., and possible others on the family tree) – first post on that thread, gives a link to extremely interesting article re “doings in the Caucasus”. Would give direct link to that article if I knew how; but I don’t. Maybe others on FT, cleverer than me, can “do that office”; otherwise, given time, I’d be ready to handle the matter in more cumbersome ways. I don’t think that the abovementioned, is eclipsed by rynner2’s post and links on this thread.
 
We met many almasty witnesses including the deputy head of the areas national parks. Gregory Panchenko, or guide and a respcted Ukranian biologist had see almasties on three occations, Anatoly, an archelogist alo with us had seen the creature.

Evidence from first hand witnesses is compelling.


One of the linked sites includes the story of a big game hunter in Africa who encountered 2 small hairy humanoids:- he wanted to shoot but his local guides refused to allow it out of regard for these beings.

Second hand hunter's tales are not, especially when they're related decades after, and only then after claims by someone like William Hitchens, who really cant be taken seriously, were made public.

Cant accept the reluctance to shoot an Almas, even in the face of strong taboo's, when the human to human shooting rate is significant enough in the region for the UN to publish a 2008 report titled 'A real and persistent danger: assessing armed violence in the Caucasus, Eastern Europe and South Eastern Europe' which notes the destabilising effect armed violence has on the region, and that though levels of armed violence have decreased over the last decade, the rates in these regions remain significantly raised. Also with the Caucasus protected area fund listing leopards and stripped hyena there as virtually extinct with the brown bear going the same way, it's population having declined by a third in the last decade, poaching and habitat loss being cited as the primary causes. How then, when humans and animals alike are seen as legitimate targets can the Almas be excluded, especially when bagging one would be a great boost in an area where poverty is so much of a problem (55% poverty rate in Georgia and 30-40% in Azerbaijan and Armenia), to me this is where the real disbelief comes in. I'm not having a go at the locals, it would be the same here, and in fact is the same everywhere where people are poor and have limited options to provide for themselves and their families.

Would be quite surprising to find another Homo Erectus descendant in the Near East, bearing in mind the long and continual modern human occupation there, especially as the Neandertals there have been absent for the last thirty odd thousand years.

Lordmongrove, could you describe what you saw in more detail.

Amyasleigh couldn't find that at all.
 
It's necessary to be registered with bigfootforums.com. When logged-in: going to the "General Discussion" forum and using the search facility -- typing in keyword "almas" -- should fetch up the thread concerned. That action brings up four pages: the thread in question, " 'BF' - Human Relations -- Shocking Report", appears most of the way down the first page.

If people still have no luck, I'll endeavour to type out the article text and post it here: owing to work situations, that would be in a few days' time from now.
 
Oldrover, it's possible that nobody has ever shot an almas because there isn't a market value for them. Striped leopard pelts might fetch a lot on the black market, hyenas might be seen as threats to livestock, but the only people who would want to see an almas would be the scientist, who would very much prefer to have a live one.
As far as I know nobody has ever offered a reward for bringing one in - academics don't have big budgets.
Besides which if violent crime and the rule-of the-gun ethic is widespread in Caucasus then it would be the gunmen who would have to do it, with possible risks of turf wars, or rivals taking advantage of some clan or gang being away in the hills etc.
 
I'm not sure about the 'rule of the gun', I mentioned that report to illustrate that there are plenty of people there, as in many places, willing to use armed violence for profit.
Seriously though, is it conceivable that the body of an unknown hominid wouldn't be worth a fortune. And while academics don't as you say usually have a large budget, they would I assure you get one for something like this, and I'm equally sure there would be many people willing if not clamouring to fund their research, remember Ted Turner's 100,000 reward for the Thylacine. The media would equally be desperate for coverage, not to mention book sales, documentary films, tourism, funding from UNESCO, WWF etc. This would definitely occur to the cash strapped locals and local officials as well as the criminal element. In short if there was ever concrete proof of the Almas, it would transform the area from a transitional region still badly affected by poverty to one of the most important, valuable and high profile places on Earth.

the only people who would want to see an almas would be the scientist,

Bigfoot, everyone would it'd be the single most monumental discovery in the natural world that it would be possible to make.


Speaking as a skeptic I applaud the likes of Lordmongrove who travel to investigate, I just think that this question as well as some others have to be examined dispassionately and with critical thinking, open to the fact that the answer may not be the one we may want to hear.
 
Bigfoot, everyone would it'd be the single most monumental discovery in the natural world that it would be possible to make.

Well yes, of course, but the verifiable discovery of all sorts of cryptids and anomalies would too, and yet there have been precious few expeditions and no finds.

And while academics don't as you say usually have a large budget, they would I assure you get one for something like this, and I'm equally sure there would be many people willing if not clamouring to fund their research
They manifestly haven't done so, and there aren't . The Russian oligarchs seem to prefer buying yachts, politicians or football teams.

there are plenty of people there, as in many places, willing to use armed violence for profit.
Yes, but spending weeks tramping round the mountains with no guarantee of a result is probably a bit too much like hard work for them - riding shotgun on a truckload of heroin when they've already paid off the cops and inspectors etc, is more their sort of thing.
Lordmongrove has searched for the Mongolian Death Worm, Orang Pendek, giant snakes in SE Asia and probably some more cryptids besides them. Personally I think if you were to find any cryptid you would need battalions of people on the ground, air support, infra red, tranquiliser darts, the lot - and that is unfeasibly expensive.
We could speculate about circumstances, mindsets, contingencies in far flung regions all night. It's just the Fortean dilemma, nothing ever gets conclusively solved one way or the other.
 
I agree with all of what you said there, the only thing is if we're talking about real animals I tend to interpret it as negative evidence, not conclusively so, but pretty disheartening.
 
You could well be right. a lot of commentators have speculated that various cryptid species have only just died out, and with human population explosion and habitat destruction that could well be the case.
Gone and we never knew them! :cry:
 
Oldrover
I can't say i saw an almasty, that would be a hairy faced lie! Adam Davies and i were in and ld farm building with a long 'l' shaped verhanda running round it. Almasty had been reported there some years ago. The 7 foot door was about 3-4inches ajar and moonlight and stalight was pouring in.At about 2.30 am we heard a deep gutteral vocalization " BUB-UB-BUB!" About 25 seonds later something walking on two legs passed along the verhandar and blocked out the light to a hight of seven feet as it passed. Adam and i grabbed our cameras and ran out but whatever it was had vanished into the night.

Thenand agile. It has a thick brow ridge, winde mouth, flat nose and receeding chin. The head has a connical saggital crest. It is covered in long hair described mostly as black or grey. It has no fire and only primative tool use such as clubs and rocks.

There is a strong taboo about killig almasty in the Karbadino Balkara area.
 
PS hyena seem to be making a comeback and bears were not uncomon. There was a female with cubs in one are that we stayed in but we didn't see her.
Its a weird area. You get a village or small town with blocks of eastern bloc type flats, then hundreds of mils of forest and mountain. Gregory Panchenko who has been studying the phenomena think the almasty were once much rarer but are now on the increase due to more sightings and sightings of youngsters and family groups. One man, ahunter told him that he had what he thought was a bear in his gun sights but then it stood up on teo legs and walked away. He could have shot it but he would not as it was clearly an almasty.
Rest assured if i ever win the lottery them i'll mount some expeditions with money, time and manpower behind them. A friend of mine, upon retirement, wants to spend 3 months at Gunnung Tuju looking for the orang pendek.
 
As I said on the other thread the CFZ expedition story has pretty much clinched the Orang pendek as real for me, the rest though, sadly even the Yeti, have to be no though.

The hairy body and the conical saggittal crest doesn't sit well on a hominid, especially one descended from H. Erectus, I'd have to say that this description sounds like a composite to me. That said I don't doubt for a second that you saw something that night, and I won't insult you by trying to suggest what it could have been.

I think that Bigfoot could well be right when he talks about extinction, these stories could well be based on animals/relict human populations which lived at some past time . Some credence can be given to this possibility from the stories and finds on Flores. Though I think Sasquatch legends would have be rooted in the period before humans first crossed the Bering land bridge, not all of them would have to originate at such a remote time.

If you do win the lottery, I sincerely hope you spend it in Sumatra, Tasmania and New Guinea.
 
oldrover said:
Though I think Sasquatch legends would have be rooted in the period before humans first crossed the Bering land bridge, not all of them would have to originate at such a remote time.

Bear in mind that the "Bering land bridge" as the means of first entry to the Americas is being replaced by a maritime model; and that the most ancient skeletons are often described as having "Australoid" features (cf Luzia). If you want a sasquatch tradition based on extinct Asian mammals, a first colonization of mobile kayakers originating from a population that divided in southeast Asia, one bearing north and one south, makes the window of opportunity stretch a long way back. We don't have even a good guess at a first entry date; it might be as long ago as the first entry date for Australia.

To make your hypothesis even more complex, the Circumpolar region has to be counted as a distinct entity. In terms of culture and trade routes, the Arctic areas of America, Asia, Europe, and Greenland constitute a distinct geographical unit. So while it would be easy for news of Siberian extinct mammals to percolate all around the world at any point you like, you'd have to have a second line of transmission carrying them into non-Arctic Canada and the Lower 48; and you'd have to show a continuity of tradition - a Sasquatch-figure in the folklore of Arctic peoples.

As a control, you might look into the stories we know Indians of the historic period told of real extinct animals, and compare them to Sasquatch stories. I recommend Fossil Legends of the First Americans by Adrienne Mayor, Princeton University Press, 2005. I don't know of a similar work for Arctic peoples; but fossils are harder to run across in the Arctic.

Personally, I say it's fairies, and I say the heck with it. But I don't claim to know what fairies are...
 
Though I think Sasquatch legends would have be rooted in the period before humans first crossed the Bering land bridge,

As I wrote that I thought of the Clovis-Solutrean hypothesis but then thought forget it wont come up. :shock:

I will though track down a copy of the book you recommend. I must admit I'm totally ignorant of much of what you've said but very interested to learn, thank you for introducing me to such a fascinating topic.
 
Yeah, everybody likes the Solutrean but I remain loyal to the Asian boat people, because I thought of them independently while the mainstream of archeology was still "Clovis first" and all about land bridges and ice-free corridors. I'd read all these nitpicky far-out theories trying to make that paradigm fit the artifact distribution and our knowledge of glaciation cycles (not to mention the inhospitable terrain between glaciers) and ask impatiently: "So why are you assuming they had to walk from Siberia? Why can't they take boats? The Australians did!"

A reasonable case can be made for two roughly simultaneous approaches, one from Asia and one from Europe, and my head expects this to be the way it works out in the end; but my heart is with "my" Asian boat people!

However, none of that is directly related to the topic at hand. I hope you can find a copy of Fossil Legends without much trouble. All her books are available at amazon on the US side, but I don't know about British editions. She also discusses how mythology and European folklore interacted with the fossil record in The First Fossil Hunters, showing how to use a probiscidean skull to make a cyclops, for instance, and turning a triceratops into a griffin - making a considerable amount of sense out of that legend.
 
Bigfoot73 said:
You could well be right. a lot of commentators have speculated that various cryptid species have only just died out, and with human population explosion and habitat destruction that could well be the case.
Gone and we never knew them! :cry:
Coming in a bit late with this: I find self wondering whether habitat destruction can ever be "a two-edged sword".

I'm more interested in this whole subject, than knowledgeable about it, and suspect that at times I can be very naive about it. However, it honestly occurs to me -- for instance, species which live under cover of forest: as said forest is cleared, in the short term the individual creatures retreat into the dwindling amount of that cover, remaining. With deforestation happening on a large scale and at a great pace, is there not a chance of its uncovering individual specimens of -- we can say, cryptids, that being the subject under discussion -- with a chance of same being captured or killed, and brought then to the notice of science?

I suspect that this notion may be a fallacy, for reasons which I'm not managing to see. It is a thing which as far as I know, has not yet actually happened in respect of any cryptid (ex-cryptid?). If the idea is fallacious, I'd be grateful to kindly folks for "humouring" me by pointing out why -- "in words of one syllable", if need be.
 
Doesn't seem to be any problem finding the book over here at all, read the reviews and they all praise it.

I caught the last few minutes of something on TV once not that long ago but I can't for the life of remember where, about really ancient sea voyages from Asia, all I can remember is that they were focusing on a group of people from I think Chile or Argentina. They were proposing a truly ancient maritime culture, pre the Solutrean period.
 
Bloody hell, my spelling on the last post stank! I'm dislexic but thats one of the worst spelt posts ever!
I thought the conical head was odd too, more ape-like than hominid, certainly errectus didn't have it. However the conical head is caused by a large saggittal crest that ancors large jaw muscles. If a hypothetical errectus decendent that had tough material such as raw plants and roots would need a saggital crest. It may be a secondary sexual feature in masles as well.
I'll never claim to have seen an almasty on the strength of what happened that night. I'll never claim to have seen any cryptid untill i actually do. By god i hope i can film it if and when that happens.
 
None of what you say is impossible, but I doubt it because Temporal muscles large enough to warrant a saggittal crest would indicate a reduced cranial capacity, which has been the hominids trump card. If the Amas evolved anywhere in that area from H. erectus, though as there are similar stories throughout Eurasia there's nothing to suggest that they did, and given that Southern Europe and the middle east was the area which produced the more gracile non classic Neandertals, its odd that the same environment would select both progressive and retrograde characteristics in early humans to produce such different solutions to the same problem. I'm not suggesting evolution is some linear process here, so much as saying that this would be against the flow of larger brain size in each successive hominid type, not least in H.Erectus whose brain size Richard Leakey notes expanded by an average of 200cc from early to late specimens. Also H. erectus is believed to have been using fire, and was definitely using tools, so this I think would make more sense for them to use to deal with tough plant matter.

The only time reduction in brain size has been shown to have happened in a hominid, H. Floresiensis, it's accompanied by a massive reduction in body size, but they retained tool use and probably fire. Admittedly though they are considered to have descended from H.Erectus, and do show other primitive features, in the skull and skeleton, so what you suggest isn't without precedent, but these features in H. Floresiensis are associated with island dwarfism, whereas the Almas developing in Eurasia, isn't likely to be subject to the same mechanisms.

Wouldn't a saggittal crest also likely suggest the presence of a protruding jaw, with associated complications for supporting the weight of the head in a biped, as with the protruding jaw this should lead to other striking anatomical features not reported in the Almas. In short if the Almas is a descendant of H.erectus then it appears to far more primitive both anatomically and intellectually.

What bothers me most about this, and I'm sure this has occurred to you too, is the conical head is a feature of more high profile 'man beasts', and that given the popularity in that region for all things Fortean (well Russia so I may be overgeneralising) and the amount of tv time dedicated to it, whether this has compromised the evidence, especially as it don't seem to appear in the earlier descriptions.

By the way if it wasn't for the spell checker this whole post would have been about brian size and the like.
 
Article (“BF-Human Relations, etc.”) which I’ve referred to in recent posts, follows herewith. From a Russian source titled – if I have things rightly – SGP. Article dated Aug. 4th 2008. Apologies for possible typos.

“RELATIONS BETWEEN MAN AND ‘WILDMAN’ IN THE CAUCASUS: KHABAZ KARDANOV AND HIS RELATIONSHIP TO AN ALMASTY

During the search for eyewitnesses in the Kabardinian village Sarmakovo in Kabardino-Balkaria, northern Caucasus, in November 2005, a member of the German study group was referred to a possible eyewitness. It was the Kabardinian Hassan Muratovich Kardanov, 72 years old. He is a member of a respected family in the village. During the Soviet time, Kardanov had worked nearly 20 years as the head of the ‘Seisovjet’ (village administration) in Sarmakovo. During the talk with him, he said that he had encounters with the Almasty twice in his life. According to him, his first encounter was ‘after the war near the village Kamijuko’, a village close to Sarmakovo. The second encounter happened at the end of the 50s, in the neighbouring republic Karachaevo-Circassia, about 10 miles from the settlement Ust’ Dzheguta. Kardanov was mowing grass there together with four other men. When it got dark, they raked the cut grass together. Suddenly, a creature similar toa man came toward them, and Kardanov claimed that this was an Almasty. One of the men fainted from fear. The creature apparently had a face like a person, but also had crooked eyes. The entire body was covered with hair, and the hair on his head reached to his chest. He wore a cloth around his hips.

During the talk on this subject, Kardanov explained that his dead cousin, a resident of Sarmakovo, was friends with a female Almasty. In the further talk, it was revealed who he was talking about. Khabaz Kardanov. Boris Porshnev publicized on this Kabardinian and his relationship with an Almasty in his work ‘The Struggle for Troglodytes’ (1968). In 1974 this paper was also published in French in an abridged version. According to Porshnev, in the fall of 1959, a member of the Snowman Commission in Moscow was informed that a Khabaz Kardanov in the village Sarmakovo had contact with a ‘tame’ Almasty. He worked at that time as a herdsman and on the pasture he became friendly with a female Almasty. Later she followed him to his house in Sarmakovo and visited this house again and again. Kahabaz’s uncle saw her in the garden there. Khabaz was apparently willing to allow the possibility of contact in return for money. However, this did not come to be.

Porshnev wrote, that at the time, the existence of a ‘Snowman’ in the Caucasus was hard to fathom, and the Snowman Commission at the Academy of Science in Moscow had problems. The necessary money was not produced. Porshnev: ‘Shortly thereafter, he [ Khabaz Kardanov] left for Siberia and his relatives claimed that he reached this decision, partly because of his wish to leave the Almasty. And therefore one cannot assume that this kind of situation will repeat itself.’ Later, nothing more about this case was published on the Russian side, as far as is known.

Because of Porshnev’s description the members of the German study group working in Sarmakovo, thought that Khabaz Kardanov had left the village forever. But this was obviously not true. According to Hassan Kardanov’s statement, his cousin Khabaz lived his entire life in Sarmakovo. He worked for the wine factory there, which still exists today. His job was, among others, to travel with shipments of wine to Siberia. During these transports, he was sometimes not at home for a few weeks. He died, according to his cousin, in the late 80s in Sarmakovo.

Hassan Kardanov told how Marie-Jeanne Koffmann [ Almas researcher] often visited him when he worked in the village administration: ‘She often came to me and asked me to help her’. He claimed further, that she asked him several times, among other things, to speak to his cousin, that he should show her the Almasty. When asked about Koffmann’s intentions, Kardanov said, ‘She wanted to catch the Almasty’. As a return favour, Koffmann promised Khabaz Kardanov a three-room apartment in Moscow – ‘ryadom Gagarina’ (next to Gagarin). Hassan Kardanov explained that at that time, just as it is today, the dream of many Kabardinian villagers was to live in Moscow, because of the better wages and prestige. However, Khabaz turned this offer down. Hassan Kardanov quoted his cousin with the following words: ‘And even if she [Koffmann] gave me the entire district of Moscow, I wouldn’t give her the Almasty.’ Hassan Kardanov didn’t know anything about a ransom that his cousin demanded for the Almasty in 1959, but he didn’t say that such a claim must be untrue. Hassan was asked if Khabaz also had contact to the Almasty in the 60s and later. He said that there were such rumours of this in the village and referred to Koffmann’s offer to his cousin.

He said further that he met his cousin once in the 60s during the hay harvest near the village. He came back after some time and was amazed that his cousin had finished the harvest in such a short time. He asked him about it. Khabaz said the ‘she’ had helped him. It should be noted that in the Russian TV documentary ‘Madam and the Snowman’ (2005) Koffmann shows a locality on the edge of the village Sarmakovo, where, according to her, the Almasty helped Khabaz Kardanov during the hay harvest. In this connection no year is mentioned. Hassan Kardanov said, that his cousin lived alone in his house, about 300 metres away from Koffmann’s home in the centre of the village Sarmakovo, until his death. During the talks with him, Hassan Kardanov appeared to be a serious, honest man. Although he has reached retirement age, he still works in the administration for pension funds in Zalukoashe, the administration centre of the Zoisk district.

The Khabaz Kardanov case is also dealt with in the present literature about ‘relict hominids’, following Porshnev’s description. It must be noted, that also other Moscow researchers like Igor Burtsev and Dmitri Bayanov took part in Koffmann’s fieldwork in Sarmakovo in the middle of the 60s. However, according to Hassan Kardanov’s descriptions, this case from the early days of Caucasian fieldwork is presented differently as that which Porshnev published in 1968. Keeping his publication in mind, this leads today to a question, which is also significant for other publications. How completely was Porshnev and other authors informed about the fieldwork in the Caucasus?

If one is trying to collect information about Almasty from the locals nowadays, they will hear the tip that in the last three decades there has sometimes been people who had personal relationship with Almasty. Locals claim today that Koffmann was looking for such “contact people” and several times, found them. They say that she attempted to have these contact people show her the Almasty, also in offering them money. It is not known at the present if this worked. Gregory Panchenko, Koffmann’s close co-worker, wrote in his book ‘Catalogue of Monsters’ (2002), that in the 1960s the last generation of Almasty died for whom contact to humans was relatively common.

There are many historical reports in the Caucasus about taming the wild people. Those who collect reports in the central north Caucasus about the subject, always run into the following theme. A person can ‘tame’ an Almasty, when he hides a hair from himself [from context, I presume this means a hair from the ‘Almasty’ who is to be tamed] in his house. Then, the Almasty will serve as a worker for the person who has his hair. However, if the Almasty finds the hair, he can also kill the person who hid it. This belief is probably the most known about Almasty among the local residents today. You can even hear about it from people who believe the Almasty to be a part of local superstition.

The best known example of ‘taming’ is Zana, who is believed to be a ‘relic hominoid’ by the Moscow ‘hominologists’. According to Russian publications, she was caught and tamed in the 19th century in Abkhazia. In ‘The Struggle for Troglodytes’, Porshnev mentions another case where an Almasty had regular contact to a family. This also occurred in the Zoisk district, where the village Sarmakovo is located. Koffmann learned this from the Ukrainian N. Zerikova, who had an encounter with this Almasty in 1956. Alexander Mashkovtsev, a member of the Russian Snowman commission who worjed as the first in Kabardino-Balkaria on the problem in 1960, wrote: ‘...in previous times, one frequently met Almasty. There were even cases where they could be tamed, and they lived a few years with Kabardinian families and did simple work. There were also apparently cases of sexual intercourse between the Almasty and humans.’

According to Koffmann, before the revolution Kabardinians, Circassians, Karachays and other Caucasian nationalities used them (Almasty) often for agricultural works: in the gardens, for cutting wood, for bringing water and others. The farmers fed their unusual helpers and sometimes they gave them old trousers and jackets. The mountain guide Leonid Zamyatin collected eyewitness reports in the Caucasus according to Dmitri Bayanov. He lived in the settlement Tarskoi on the foot of Mt. Elbrus and published in 1966: ‘The residents of Kabardino-Balkaria claim that even 40 to 50 years ago an Almasty lived in almost every house of the mountain villages. The Almasty was given food and that brought the families good luck.’

According to current reports of natives in Kabardino-Balkaria, before the Second World War it was not rare that a single Almasty lived in a local family over many years. In this connection one can hear the following story. The Almasty who lived with the humans received every day his meal. Each time when the family had lunch or dinner, they set out a serving in the courtyard. But when they forgot to do this, and when they later returned home, they realised that he had made a large mess in the house looking for his dinner. These type of stories are widespread in the northern Caucasus even today. Natives further claim that such Almasty sometimes were buried in the same graveyard as the members of his family. In 1999 the German group recorded a report by inhabitants of the village Bylym in Kabardino-Balkaria. They claimed that Marie-Jeanne Koffmann was digging for such a body in a former graveyard on the edge of their village in the Soviet time. Because this is against the local customs she tried to keep it secret and worked only at night, but it became known in the village.

Also in Bylym in 1999, a member of the German study group recorded the report of the Balkarian Mariam Avashokova, 99 years old. She said that an Almasty lived in their house when she was a child. He had his own room in the house, which the children could not enter. The children rarely saw him and were afraid of him. She couldn’t describe the face very well, because it was covered in long hair that hung down. She also didn’t know the gender of the Almasty. Yet she did experience how the Almasty made a large mess in the house when he didn’t get anything to eat. According to her, Almasty lived in the homes of many families in Balkaria during her childhood.

One question in the present field work is if purposeful, repeated contact or a lengthy relationship between humans and Almasty exists today. Since the late 90s there have been significant hints collected that point to the likelihood that there are still such contact people today. This is a main point of current field investigations of the German study group in the Caucasus. “
 
Robust and gracile hominids lived side by side in Africa a few million years ago, so i don't see any problem with that. The almasty issupposed to have powerfull jaws but not as protruding as an ape's. There are tow theores for the lack of advanced tools and fire Gregory Panchenko and allot of the Russians think the almasty when through a racial degeneration. When numbers were low the creatures became solitary and lost allot of group knowlage. I don't think they ever had, or needed fire or tools beyon clubs and rocks. I think they are a powerfull homini adapted for hars mountain and forset life. Gregory says their ecological twin is the brw bear. Anywere the bear can live, so can the almasty.
I think the almasty is real not because i want to belife in it (there are plenty of cryptids i think are hogwash such as living moas) but because there are so many good sightings by ordinary folk with nothing to gain from telling lies. Also Grgory himself, a respected bilogist and the deputy head or the national parks in the ara have seen it. If they are having some kind of dellution then its a remarkably consistant one and i have never really been inpressed with the 'all in the imaginaion' school from the likes of Michale Murger. I oftern wonder how many sceptics would still be sceptics if they came along on one of these expeditions?
 
The almasty's willingness to cooperate with humans is exceptional among crypto-hominids.You don't hear of bigfoots or orang pendeks or barmanous helping out in the fields, or having rooms in people's homes, or wearing clothes.
Perhaps the almasty on the porch only wanted to borrow a cup of sugar!
Seriously though I did speculate earlier that they might actually have the same DNA as us, and that was before all these very revealing posts detailing habituation.
They don't seem to be telepathic or to have any cognition-warping faculty like those claimed for bigfoots. They seem to be about the same size as humans, except of course that getting a bit bigger and bulkier would make it easier to survive in cold weather. the willingness to have sex with humans is unusual too, (although not as unusual as of the humans to have sex with them!)
How well informed are those Russian commentators who claim they underwent some racial degeneration, and have become genetically diluted? that implies almastys were once drastically different and have recently become more similar to us - is it possible they were always like us anyway?

Is it set in stone anywhere that all homo sapiens sapiens followed the same evolutionary path? Think of all the remaining hunter-gatherer peoples, in S.America, western Pacific and Australia - anthropologically different and surviving OK. Perhaps the almasty are/were the northern hemisphere equivalent only subject to the depredations of a harsh climate and mountainous geography.
 
Certainly Gregory Panchenko is well informed. Some of Boris Proshniev's ideas have dated. I don't think they did degenerate, i think they have allways been like that.
 
Bigfoot73 said:
Perhaps the almasty on the porch only wanted to borrow a cup of sugar!
In the USA, it's reputed to be garlic. (Sorry -- "stale old tale", more or les universally discredited.)
 
Funny you shoud say that, but last year there was a report from some Siberian province where farmers were blaming gaps in the rows of their leek crop on the local almasty. They are reportedly fond of the wild version, and got lucky.
Not exactly done and dusted case closed, but perhaps the garlic thing isn't so far-fetched.
 
"Well, there's a thing" -- one of the respected Russian researchers into the phenomenon visited a few years ago, the venue in Tennessee (generally "rubbished" by American Bigfooters) where the garlic thing supposedly took place -- and he was seemingly pretty well convinced. The whole matter seems weird, and maybe nothing should be dismissed out of hand...
 
Lordmongrove, while I don't mean to offend you or any Almas witness, and respect anyone who is willing to go and look for themselves, personally I can’t see any rational or consistent argument for the Almas' existence, beyond the eye witnesses.


While there were as you say robust and gracile hominids at one time in Africa, firstly it’s worth remembering robust hominids have been absent in favour of larger brained gracile examples since this time, I’m assuming you mean the australopithecines who had cranial capacities in the range of modern great apes, surely this is due to the fact that in early hominids bipedalism emerged before the presence of a large cranial capacity, therefore such examples should be put into the context of a time when physiological adaptations were a more significant consideration as regards selection, rather than the later increased adaptability through cognitive ability selected for in all later hominids, which was their key advantage allowing them to spread beyond Africa, and which you'd expect to see in the Almas if it were a hominid still alive today.


I’m glad you don’t agree with the ‘racial degeneration argument’, because it seems to suggest that adversity will lead to a species surrendering many if not all of their key advantages-intelligence, social structure, tool use and perhaps most bizarrely in that climate fire use, and revert to the physiological adaptations as suggested in accounts of the Almas’ physical appearance, if you accept the saggittal crest a feature not found in H.Erectus, H.Ergaster or H.Habilis, as well as the functional intelligence level of their long extinct forebears, if you accept the accounts of the Almas’ behaviour. As regards the use of tools and fire, when you say you don’t think they ever possessed such abilities, I find this surprising because earlier you said you thought it was ‘an unknown descendant of homo erectus’, while acknowledging the slower spread of Acheulean tools into Europe, there is evidence for both their possession as well as the use of fire in the middle east by H.Erectus from around 750,000 years ago, and Europe from around 500,000. So if one of two divergent populations of H. Erectus or any other early human was to be displaced by later groups while the other persisted, this argument would tend to suggest that it was the least adaptable and sophisticated that won out, something which clearly hasn’t happened anywhere else, rather than being out competed or absorbed.

Returning to the saggittal crest, the point I was making is that it’s presence is associated with a protruding jaw like ape’s who do have them, this feature has not been reported in the Almas, so I’d say this is a telling inconsistency.


Skeptisism, doesn't equal disbelief so much as an attempt to employ critical thinking, and in this case for me that leads to the conclusion that the Almas doesn’t make any sense, in terms of a hominid or in terms of a great ape, all of which are confined to the tropics. So as I’ve said before eye witness accounts are compelling and interesting, but in this instance they appear to me to refer to an impossibly improbable animal, meaning that however distasteful or high handed it may sound, explanations for the sightings should be sought elsewhere. Going back to your list of cryptid likely to exist, which in many cases I agree with, I notice that you dismiss the Chupcabra of course I agree, but there's a huge number of eyewitnesses to it, and it's hard to see what many of them would gain from lying.
 
oldrover said:
..Skeptisism, doesn't equal disbelief so much as an attempt to employ critical thinking, and in this case for me that leads to the conclusion that the Almas doesn’t make any sense, in terms of a hominid or in terms of a great ape, all of which are confined to the tropics....
Known great apes may be, but hominids aren't. Some of them have got as far as the moon.

Incidentally, when did hominids stop being part of the primate genus? Or is that just for the purposes of your argument?
 
Known great apes may be, but hominids aren't. Some of them have got as far as the moon.

Quite right, but the point I was trying to make is that the description of the Almas doesn't seem to be a hominid.

I don't quite understand the question about the hominids being primates though, can you show me where I looks like I'm saying that.
 
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