The Atlantis Thread

Waylander

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BIg_Slim said:
Waylander28 i have somthing to support your submergerd atlantis off ireland :).
Ossian’s Grave
Now, staying in Antrim but heading inland a little into Glenaan, the next site is one where you need to really stretch your imagination, and that’s Ossian’s Grave...

Who was Ossian and how did he die?

Well, he’s a figure of legend of course – the warrior/poet son of Finn McCoul - and the story goes that he was feeling tired and dispirited after losing in battle when his eye fell on the lovely Niamh.

She returned his love but there was a catch - they had to live beneath the sea in the land of Tir na n’Og. Time passed (some say a hundred years) and Ossian longed to return to the land once more...
Okay BIg_slim, I'm afraid my book of Irish legends is out of my house at the moment, so I had to resort to the net for info, as I was not sure about the Niamh situation. As it turns out this is basic story indeed.

But back to Oisian (thats how we spell it) and the mysterious land,

Wikpedia said:
In Oisín in Tir na nÓg his most famous echtra, or adventure tale, he is visited by a fairy woman called Níamh Chinn Óir - Niamh of the Golden Hair or Head - one of the daughters of Manannán Mac Lir, a god of the sea - who announces she loves him and takes him away to Tir na nÓg ("the land of the young", also referred to as Tir Tairngire, "the land of promise"). Their union produces Oisín's famous son, Oscar, and a daughter, Plor na mBan - "Flower of Women". After what seems to him to be three years Oisín decides to return to Ireland, but 300 years have passed there. Niamh gives him her white horse, Embarr, and warns him not to dismount, because if his feet touch the ground those 300 years will catch up with him and he will become old and withered. Oisín returns home and finds the hill of Almu, Fionn's home, abandoned and in disrepair. Later, while trying to help some men lift a stone onto a wagon, his girth breaks and he falls to the ground, becoming an old man just as Niamh had predicted. The horse returns to Tir na nÓg.

In the tale Acallam na Senórach (Tales of the Elders), Oisín and his comrade Caílte mac Rónáin survived to the time of Saint Patrick and told the saint the stories of the fianna. This is the source of William Butler Yeats's poem The Wanderings of Oisin.

The grave site of Oisín is said to be located close to the foot of Glenann in the Glens of Antrim in Northern Ireland.
I'm convinced that there is something more to the land of Tir Na nOg, and that at one time there was a land just beyound the west of coast of Ireland, that atleast may have had some civil advancement above that of the island of Ireland itself.


Go on the Horslips!! ;)
 

EnolaGaia

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Atlantis found on Google Ocean?

Experts say a "grid of streets" spotted on Google Ocean could be the lost city of Atlantis.

The network of criss-cross lines is 620 miles off the coast of north west Africa near the Canary Islands on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean.

The perfect rectangle, around the size of Wales, was noticed on the search giant's underwater exploration tool by an aeronautical engineer who claims it looks like an "aerial map" of a city.

Atlantis experts said that the unexplained grid is located at one of the possible sites of the legendary island, reports The Sun.

Greek philosopher Plato described how the city sank beneath the ocean after its residents made a failed effort to conquer Athens around 9000 BC.



Dr Charles Orser, curator of historical archaeology at New York State University said the find was fascinating and warranted further inspection.

"The site is one of the most prominent places for the proposed location of Atlantis, as described by Plato. Even if it turns out to be geographical, it definitely deserves a closer look," he said.

Bernie Bamford, 38, of Chester who spotted the "city", compared it to Milton Keynes, the new town built on a grid design. "It must be man made," he said.

Google Ocean, an extension of Google Earth, allows web users to virtually explore the ocean with thousands of images of underwater landscapes.

Launched earlier this month, it lets users swim around underwater volcanoes, watch videos about exotic marine life, read about nearby shipwrecks, contribute photos and watch unseen footage of historic ocean expeditions.

SOURCE: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_32 ... s.quirkies
 

rynner2

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Google dismisses 'Atlantis find'

The Lost City of Atlantis is still lost - despite hopes that Google Earth had located the fabled city on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean.

Observers noted what seemed to be a grid of streets and the outlines of a big city on the sea floor about 960km (600 miles) off the African coast.

Experts had said this was one of the possible sites of the city described by Plato, the Greek philosopher.

But Google said the lines represented sonar data collected from boats.

"It's true that many amazing discoveries have been made in Google Earth including a pristine forest in Mozambique that is home to previously unknown species and the remains of an Ancient Roman villa," a Google statement said.

"In this case, however, what users are seeing is an artefact of the data collection process. Bathymetric ( or sea floor terrain) data is often collected from boats using sonar to take measurements of the sea floor," she added.

"The lines reflect the path of the boat as it gathers the data. The fact there are blank spots between each of these lines is a sign of how little we really know about the world's oceans."

The story of Atlantis, a fabled utopia destroyed in ancient times, has captured the imagination of scholars ever since it was first described by the philosopher Plato more than 2,000 years ago.

He wrote of a land of fabulous wealth, advanced civilisation and natural beauty. Debate rages over where it might lie, if it existed at all: some say it is near Cuba, off the coast of Cornwall, near Gibraltar or in the middle of the Atlantic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7903169.stm?lss

Google's statement makes very little sense, actually. Why doesn't all deep sea surveying display such regular artefacts? If we can't trust that particular area, how can we trust any of their undersea topography?

But we can also discount this as Plato's Atlantis, which was described as set out in a series of circular man-made canals or waterways - definitely not a grid-like layout of streets.

More to come, perhaps...
 

river_styx

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It's also worth remembering that Google put quite a few Easter Eggs into Google Earth and it wouldn't surprise me if they did the same with Google Sea or whatever it's called.
 

EnolaGaia

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There are multiple follow-up stories circulating today in which Google claims the lines are actually gaps in the sonar data used to generate the maps. In other words - they're not features of the ocean floor but artifacts of the scanning process.
 

ProfessorF

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Nah, that's what they want you to think.
It's all reptilian shape-shifting overlords innit?
 

tilly50

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Are there any more of these anomolies anywhere else on Google Ocean?
 

rjmrjmrjm

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There's a huge green thing floating just above where London is...

Oh wait... it's the North! :D
 

KarlD

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Alternative theory, slightly controversial.

Anonymous said:
I think Plato's Atlantis was Santorini, personally, but what if maybe stories about an earlier civilisation got mixed up with stories about the Cycladic/Minoans? Like the way King Arthur got himself transported from the Dark Ages to the Middle Ages, or King Lear, for that matter. That's just my brain rattling 'cos it's not in gear...
I have this theory that Plato was a bit of a loon, prone to making things up and getting things wrong. I know its a contriversial theory but how about.....
There is no such place as Atlantis and there never has been

Gasp :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :_omg: :_omg:
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Re: Alternative theory, slightly controversial.

KarlD said:
...

I have this theory that Plato was a bit of a loon, prone to making things up and getting things wrong. I know its a contriversial theory but how about.....
There is no such place as Atlantis and there never has been

Gasp :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :_omg: :_omg:
Except, of course, the extraordinary, highly advanced, Bronze Age, civilisation of the Minoans really did exist, with Aktorini on the volcanic island of Santorini at its hub, until the island exploded and a lot of it disappeared.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption

;)
 

KarlD

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Re: Alternative theory, slightly controversial.

Pietro_Mercurios said:
KarlD said:
...

I have this theory that Plato was a bit of a loon, prone to making things up and getting things wrong. I know its a contriversial theory but how about.....
There is no such place as Atlantis and there never has been

Gasp :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :_omg: :_omg:
Except, of course, the extraordinary, highly advanced, Bronze Age, civilisation of the Minoans really did exist, with Aktorini on the volcanic island of Santorini at its hub, until the island exploded and a lot of it disappeared.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption

;)
Oh i am sure there were lots of ancient civilisations around which could be the basic for the myth of Atlantis but I don't see any evidence for any super advanced civilisations who where decended from extra terestrials or whatever the lastest chariots of the Gods type guff is doing the rounds at the moment.
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Re: Alternative theory, slightly controversial.

KarlD said:
...

Oh i am sure there were lots of ancient civilisations around which could be the basic for the myth of Atlantis but I don't see any evidence for any super advanced civilisations who where decended from extra terestrials or whatever the lastest chariots of the Gods type guff is doing the rounds at the moment.
Ah! But, the Bronze Age Minoans of Santorini did have indoor plumbing. Possibly even hot and cold running water. Impressive enough, even if you were an ancient Egyptian.

:)
 

KarlD

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Thats true..

Ive been to Santorini me, they didn't have hot running water when I was there :( and someone had nicked half the island :shock:

What I find fascinating is people who constantly try to endow ancient civilisations with advanced technology. I mean why do you want ancient people to have electicity or Corby trouser presses? I was reading some crap about Egyptians using pyramids to store static charges to make their crops more fertile and I was thinking why cannot these people simply accept that they were pretty primative people who were a bit obsesed with death and spent a lot of effort in building tombs for their rulers?
 

Blinko_Glick

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I just can't get the notion that the Antartica landmass is Atlantis out of my head.

Turn the globe on it's side and you have an island continent in a huge ocean.

Add to this the ancient maps showing the landmass free of ice, the theory of crustal displacement and the associated havoc it would cause (floods, freeze, volcanic nastiness), and you have yourself an elegant answer to the greatest mystery ever!!
 

ProfessorF

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You're not the first person to meander down that particular avenue of thought.
See Graham Hancocke for more...
 

Blinko_Glick

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I bought this book on a whim to make sure that all the money on my gift card was used up.

Bloody glad I did too.

Published this year, it has a similar feel the Dan Brown's Angels & Demons, but IMO it is written in a much clearer, factual and thoroughly entertaining way.

The characters are more rounded and believable, the plot fascinating, the settings richly described and dripping with atmosphere.

For anyone with an interest in Atlantis and it's relationship with human history/religion, give it a go.

If Dan Brown can commission films from his stuff, Charles Brokaw should be given carte blanche!


Here's the review on Amazon:


An ancient artefact is discovered in a dusty antiquities shop in Alexandria, Egypt – the long forgotten trinket soon becomes the centre of the most deadly archaeological hunt in history. The 20,000 year-old relic is inscribed with what appears to be the long lost language of Atlantis. Only one man would seem to be able to decode its meaning – the world’s foremost linguist, Dr Thomas Lourdes – but only if he can stay alive long enough… Meanwhile, an earthquake in Cadiz, Spain, uncovers a most unexpected site – one which the Vatican rush to be the first to explore… Perhaps the lost city of Atlantis is finally ready to be found? But is the world ready for her secrets?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atlantis-Code-Charles-Brokaw/dp/0141040807
 

rynner2

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Lost city of Atlantis discovered? Grainy images show city-like formations at the bottom of the Caribbean
By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 5:24 PM on 17th December 2009

A group of 'undersea archaeologists' have become the latest to claim they have uncovered the lost city of Atlantis.
The scientists - who have refused to identify themselves - have released a series of images taken beneath the Caribbean.
They insist the snaps show what appear to be the ruins of a city that could pre-date Egypt's pyramids, which appeared after 2600BC.

They even told a French newspaper that one of the structures appears to be a pyramid.
Now the anonymous group wants to raise funds to explore the secret location where the images were taken.
They would not reveal the exact location, however, saying only that it was somewhere in the Caribbean Sea.
The claims have raised eyebrows on the internet, though sceptics refrained from debunking them entirely - just in case.

The legend of Atlantis, a city of astonishing wealth, knowledge and power that sank beneath the ocean waves, has fascinated millions.
Time and time again hopes have been raised that the lost city has been found - only for those hopes to be dashed against the evidence (or lack thereof).
Its location - or at least the source of the legend - remained a tantalising mystery.
In 1997, Russian scientists claimed to have found Atlantis 100 miles off Land's End.

In 2000 a ruined town was found under 300ft of water off the north coast of Turkey in the Black Sea.

The area is thought to have been swamped by a great flood around 5000BC, possibly the floods referred to in the Old Testament.

In 2004 an American architect used sonar to reveal man-made walls a mile deep in the Mediterranean between Cyprus and Syria.

In 2007 Swedish researchers claimed the city lay on the Dogger Bank in the North Sea, which was submerged in the Bronze Age.

And as recently as February of this year, what appeared to be grid-like lines that resembled city streets were spotted on Google Earth - in the ocean off the coast of Africa.
Sadly Google itself quickly debunked the suggestion, explaining that the lines were left by a boat as it collected data for the application.
'Bathymetric (sea-floor) data is often collected from boats using sonar to take measurements of the sea-floor,' a spokesman said.

'The lines reflect the path of the boat as it gathers the data.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... z0a28FwwTr
 

EnolaGaia

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This appears to be the earliest _Herald de Paris_ posting on this story:

http://www.heralddeparis.com/previously ... loor/65855

This indicates the images are satellite photos that have admittedly been 'enhanced' or 'filtered'.

With all the coy anonymity and lack of details, I can't help but smell 'fakery' ...
 

PeniG

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If legitimate scientists thought they had found structures under the Carribbean, they:
a) would refer to "possible structures in the waters of the Carribbean;" references to Atlantis would be jokey, and discussion would focus on known Central American civilizations, timing of sea level rise, and other contexts for the surprising nature of such a find;
b) would do so openly under their own names and institutional banners so that they could
c) solicit hard for funds to investigate this marvelous, revolutionary, promising, orgasmicly exciting find.

The last major sea-level rise in that area happened at the end of the Ice Age, long before any known civilizations in the Old or New Worlds. No structures from that time have survived, though we have a few intriguing remnants of structures, such as the stone floor at the Clovis level in Gault. Any land area sunk since that time would be the result of a hitherto-unsuspected disaster, such as a volcanic eruption. Either way, major cool points accrue.

Underwater archeology is EXPENSIVE, as digging - the easy part, farmed out to grad students and avocational volunteers - becomes complex and requires a special skill set to undertake. Competition for funds is fierce, especially in the present climate when everyone is cutting back. So the announcement wouldn't be made on the basis of Google maps, but after an exploratory dive, and would include pictures and an artifact or two, and it would go straight for the grant money, listing all the good solid reasons why this project should get funded and not all those other projects.
 

rynner2

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Has the real Atlantis finally been found... under a modern holiday paradise?
By Bettany Hughes

[Long article equating the destruction of Atlantis with the volcanic catclysm that destroyed Thera (modern-day Santorini). The first serious book I read on Atlantis, in the 1960s, suggested this same scenario, so it's not exactly new! But new geological and archaeological evidence has since grown even more compelling.]

Atlantis: the Evidence is shown on BBC 2, 9pm, 2 June.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... adise.html
 

TANGRAM

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A magnificent book on this subject is Lost Continents - The Atlantis Theme in History, Science and Literature by L. Sprague de Camp - Dover Publications - New York.
 

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TANGRAM said:
A magnificent book on this subject is Lost Continents - The Atlantis Theme in History, Science and Literature by L. Sprague de Camp - Dover Publications - New York.
I'll look out for that. LSDC was certainly a great SF/Fantasy writer.
 

Waylander

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rynner2 said:
Has the real Atlantis finally been found... under a modern holiday paradise?
By Bettany Hughes

Atlantis: the Evidence is shown on BBC 2, 9pm, 2 June.
Yeah, Caught that last night on TV, very interesting, and a very likely possibility too. Certainly even if it is not the fabled Atlantis, the peoples of that island were very advanced on so many levels. Loved the art work.

Well I guess my theory that Atlantis was located off the west coast of Ireland won't float anymore... :p
 

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Atlantis Neighbors?

Here is my insight on Atlantis. Assuming that Plato's story is true; researchers should be looking for the neighbors. Atlantis was at war with ancient Athens and Egypt. Why haven't any researchers tried to find these civilizations? Also since the story originated at the Temple at Sais in Egypt. Researchers should be looking for this Temple. Which might have more evidence, and stories about Atlantis. The Atlantis story was much longer than what we have; but Plato only had or gave a portion of the legend. :)
 

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Re: Atlantis Neighbors?

Carljr said:
... Atlantis was at war with ancient Athens and Egypt. Why haven't any researchers tried to find these civilizations?
I think they may have been found already. Either that or Channel 4 are overpaying Bettany Hughes, and Zahi Hawass is going to be very, very cross.
 

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Re: Atlantis Neighbors?

stuneville said:
Carljr said:
... Atlantis was at war with ancient Athens and Egypt. Why haven't any researchers tried to find these civilizations?
I think they may have been found already. Either that or Channel 4 are overpaying Bettany Hughes, and Zahi Hawass is going to be very, very cross.
Sorry, I should clarify that the Athens and Egypt we should be looking for are around 10,000 BC. Since the original story was given to Solon, and passed down to PLato. Solon lived around 600 BC; the original story was 9000 years before his time! All this assumes Plato is right; otherwise the evidence might be in the history of the Egypt and Athens we know of. :)
 

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Plato wasn't writing history, he's writing a didatic story. The 10,000 years ago is probably the ancient Greek equivalent, of "Once upon a time.." or "A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away..."

The eruption of Santorini/Thera and the disappearance of a civilization practically overnight, passed on slightly mangled in the oral history of the Mediterranean, is a more likely candidate than a super civilization has left absolutely no trace. (Athens didn't exist 10,000 years ago by the way)

When asked Tolkien once said that the events of LOTR were about 10,000 years ago, I don't think looking for the ruins of Mordor would be very useful...(though some have tried)
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Timble2 said:
...

The eruption of Santorini/Thera and the disappearance of a civilization practically overnight, passed on slightly mangled in the oral history of the Mediterranean, is a more likely candidate than a super civilization has left absolutely no trace. (Athens didn't exist 10,000 years ago by the way)

...
The destruction of Santorini/Thera certainly fits the bill as a possible real source for the destruction of Atlantis, in many major aspects. The advanced (by the standards of the day), Bronze Age, Minoan civilisation,was probably largely destroyed in the huge catastrophe. Not 9000, but 1000 years before Plato wrote down his tale. In comparison, that's still from here back, a whole generation, before the Battle of Hastings.
 

rynner2

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There have also been suggestions that the ancient Egyptian records did not in fact refer to years but to lunar months, which brings the date of the destruction of Atlantis much closer to the Thera eruption.
 
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