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The Beast Of Gévaudan

Recent Report of Hyena in Wales

According to the website IC Wales for December 22, 2005, "a creature described as a white hyena has been sighted by a number of police officers....at the Lakeside Golf Range, in Margam, Port Talbot, south Wales."

One of the officers used his camera phone to photograph the animal.

But unlike our putative French hyena this one doesn't seem to have devoured ANYBODY.

Probably decided it wouldn't be British.
 
Was flicking through old copies of FT ,the BOB was identified as one of the three speices (sp) of hyeana ,will try to find said FT.
 
Appeal to find 'beast' new home
A white Alsatian dog, mistaken for a wolf or hyena when spotted roaming the countryside near Port Talbot, has been put up for adoption by a dogs' home.
Police were called to investigate several sightings of the "beast" near a golf course in the Margam area of the town in December last year.

But the animal proved to be a white Alsatian dog, named Dante by rescuers.

Staff at the Dogs Trust in Bridgend, where Dante has been cared for, have launched an appeal to find him a home.

Police were called to the Lakeside Golf Range, in Margam, on 15 December after a white creature was sighted by a number of players.

The animal was described as being like a wolf or hyena and was photographed by officers.

It was the latest in several sightings of the "beast" by members of the public, who reported it as looking increasingly distressed and malnourished.

The animal was eventually caught and confirmed as being a white German shepherd dog.

'Sweet dog'

Staff at the Dog's Trust's Bridgend rehoming centre said the Alsatian had no identification and was initially nervous of human contact, but they believe he once lived in a domestic environment as he knows basic commands like "sit" and "paw".


Beverley Price, manager of the rehoming centre, said: "Dante is a beautiful and sweet dog, with lots of character.

"He has been through a lot, so I am very keen to find him a home as soon as possible.

"He is not surprisingly a little apprehensive when he first meets people, but after five minutes is your best friend, he will make a fantastic pet for someone."

The Margam "beast" was the latest in a series of apparent sightings of mystery animals across Wales in recent years.

A month previously, a "big cat" was spotted in nearby Baglan - the latest sighting of feline creatures in areas ranging from Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire to the Brecon Beacons and Monmouthshire.

In 2004, numerous sightings of a wallaby-like creature were reported in residential areas across north Cardiff.

The animal later proved to be a fox suffering from mange, malnutrition, and an injured leg, which had to be destroyed.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/wales/4672280.stm

Published: 2006/02/02 06:51:56 GMT

© BBC MMVI
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Hyena

So Welsh "hyena" was a dog and NOT a hyena. Point taken.

Okay, when WAS the last time hyenas were common outside Africa? And when were they last native to Europe and especially to Western Europe?

They seem to have been quite well-known in Israel during Old Testament times.
 
OTR: I'd have to check but by and large the African fauna (hippo, hyena, etc. ) were common in the UK only during the last Interglacial (Eemian, Riss-Wurm) - the warm period also saw them in Israel.

This map shows the distribution of the short-faced hyena (Pachycrocuta brevirostris) in Europe during that same period:

http://id-archserve.ucsb.edu/Anth3/Cour ... aced_Hyena

Minor info:

Pachycrocuta brevisteris was a lion-sized short-faced cave hyena species.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachycrocuta

This page suggests it may have preyed on/scavenged Peking Man:

www.uiowa.edu/~bioanth/courses/Peking1.htm

See also:

www.uiowa.edu/~bioanth/nature95.html

If youa re looking for something as a potential then it might be that bad boy - only shy by 100,000 years.

-------------
I also found this interesting. Wikipedia description of the Beast:

It was described as being a wolflike creature the size of a cow with a wide chest, a long sinuous tail with a lion-like tuft of fur on the end, and a greyhoundlike head with large, protruding fangs. It was also noted making huge leaps approaching thirty feet in length. The victims were almost entirely children (of both sexes) and women.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_of_G%C3%A9vaudan

And this description of one of the entities encountered on SKinwalker Ranch (page 191):

It was a big animal, very heavily muscled, with short legs. It seemed to have the shape of a hyena's body, but it had a bushy tail! ...

The animal's big red bushy tail reminded Tom of an exaggerated fox tail. But the rest of the body was all wrong for a fox. The animal looked and moved like a hyena, but its head more resembled a dog's. It had short, stubby legs like a boar...

This was like nothing they had ever seen before. It was definitely not a dog. And it definitely was not a fox. Nor a hyena. Its reddish coloring was all wrong. He figured the animal weighed about two hundred pounds.
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It was seen attacking their horses and than takes off and runs up a slope before disappearing into thin air.

Interestingly 200 pounds is the estimated weight of Pachycrocuta.
 
FT 104 Page 14,
In 1997 taxidermist Franz Julien from the French National Museum of Natural History in Paris,revealed that the beast had been preserved as a stuffed specimen in the museum until 1819 and during that time it was examined and con clusivly identified as a Striped Hyena.
Also a link (unfortunately in French)........

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/cryptozoo/
 
allo la fraise ici, cela était un article intéressant en français ! !
ici, laissez-moi traduisent en français !
hé vous forteans fous ! ! Son juste une hyène rayée. Avec probablement hors de la nourriture et wodering le pays recherchant un repas, La de La de l'OH ! Je, je suis après des oiseaux de zee en tant que vous parole de l'anglais ! ! Je suis, comment vous dites... le froggy ! ! nous nous nous ! ! au revoir mes amis fortean ! ! :shock:
 
Ruff, if you were French I would just say "Crecy,Poitiers and Agincourt". 8) :D
 
Ruff, if you were French I would just say "Crecy,Poitiers and Agincourt".
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ahh mon freind, mais ne sont-ils pas les mêmes en français et anglais, oui ? :D
 
LividBullseye said:
"FT 104 Page 14, In 1997 taxidermist Franz Julien from the French National Museum of Natural History in Paris, revealed that the beast had been preserved as a stuffed specimen in the museum until 1819 and during that time it was examined and conclusivly identified as a Striped Hyena." [by who?]

This is merely one more speculation in the seemingly borderless spectrum of Gevaudan opinions. No DNA analysis, no blood work, no study of hair or fur samples, just more guesswork based on the same late 18th century sketches and woodcuts we've all been poring over for years.

Please notice the following caveat, from the SAME site:

"[The hyena] hypothesis is criticized by French [scholar] Michel Meurger (1988), who says that it was a received idea at that time, but that NOTHING JUSTIFIES IT. Our collaborator, French cryptozoologist Jean-Jacques Barloy, still maintains that it was either a dog, or an hybrid dog x wolf, or a wolf." (Emphasis added by me, OTR/George Wagner.)
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Not Today, I'm Stuffed

Every previous account I've read of the taxidermied Gevaudan Beast which was put on display at the Paris Museum in 1766 has stated that the exhibit was totally destroyed during the violent upheavals of the French Revolution, most likely during the bloody Terror of 1793.

But now we read that the Beast remained on display there until 1819!

That's a difference of 26 years.

My hope has long been that some hair and skin samples might have survived the Revolution and that a painstaking search of Museum basements and cubbyholes might yet turn them up for the proper DNA testing.

I believe the chances of that search proving successful are now remarkably higher.
 
Yep, the holy grail for one thing. At least according to Indiana Jones. :) Though personally I would love to rummage through the basement of the British Museum.
 
Huh?

The following statement, quoted from the website Mr. Ring so kindly linked to, leaves me mentally wobbly, for reasons I will add below:

240 years ago....the killings began again....71 years earlier a beast like La Bete had reportedly killed up to 200 people all women and children. Last reported killing by a La Bete like beast was 1954."
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1. "71 years earlier"? What is that supposed to mean? There was no "Beast" circa 1693-1694.

2. And 1954? That's a completely new one on me. Every other of the several dozen accounts I've read and archived concerning the Beast of La Gevaudan have insisted that the peoples of the (former) Gevaudan region have lived at peace with their wildlife for the past 241 years.
 
Whoops!

I'm in error - there WAS a "Beast" during 1691-1701 (another source says 1693-1695, which may have been the most violent years of the period)....."the Beast of Besnais," which claimed approximately 200 victims, almost all of them women and children.

Derek Brookis gives a list of NINE [I have now expanded this to EIGHTEEN) French "Beasts" active from 1633 through 1951:

1420. Beasts of Paris. Wolves reportedly invade City, devour inhabitants.
1439. Beasts of Paris II. Repeat of 1420.
1460. Beasts of Savoy. Wolves reportedly devour children on streets.
1521. Pierre Bourgot and Michael Verding condemned for werewolfery.
1573. Beast of Dole. Several girls devoured. Giles Garnier convicted.
1581. Beast of Chartres. Just one victim.
1598. Jura Mts. Boy killed. Perrenette Fandillon lynched for werewolfery.
1598. Beast of Caude. Small boy eaten. Jacques Rollet convicted.
1598. Beast of Chalons. Childrens' bones found. Tailor convicted, burnt.
1603. Beast of Roche Chalais. Little girls eaten. Jean Grenier convicted.
1633-1634. Beast of Evreux.
1679. Beast of Fontainebleau. Loggers killed.
1691-1701. Beast of Besnais. 200 kllled.
1723. Beast of Saulieu, Mirebeau, Longecourt.
1731. Beast of Auxerrois. (18 children.)
1745. Beast of Nolay and Izier.
1754-1756. Beast of Lyonese. (Several chyild vicitms.)
1764-1767. Beast of Gevaudan. (200 dead or hurt.)
1766. Beast of Sarlat. (Approx. 30 victims.)
1783. Beast of Brive.
1809-1817. Beast of Vivarais/Cevennes.
1946-1947. Beast of Valais. (Animal victims.)
1946-1951. Beast of Cezallier.

In addition:

1751. Beast of Vienna, Austria.
1???. Beast of Orleans.

Note: I believe Valais is in the French-speaking section of Switzerland.

Still don't know about 1954, though.

Edit - I have today (Sunday, November 26, 2006) somewhat expanded and amended David Brookis' list.

Edit - Three more added December 9, 2006.

Edit - Two more added February 11, 2007.

Edit - Six more added March 12, 1997.

Note: Don't confuse Giles Garnier and Jean Grenier. But the similarity is striking and was commented on at the time.
 
Hyenas? Do I Hear Hyenas?

Would anybody care to argue that all the above attacks were the handiwork of Hyenas?

The 200 victims dead in the 1690s? (That's a much worse death toll than Gevaudan 75 years later!) The 18 victims of 1731?

What was there, a French Hyena Importing Service?
 
My guess would be one of these;
http://www.suite101.com/files/topics/19 ... chesty.jpg

The history of the Mastiff stretches back over 2,000 years ago in England; however, ancient Babylonian artifacts showing pictures of Mastiff-type dogs date back nearly 5,000 years! There are Asian arts that show Mastiff-type dogs around 1121 B.C., and they are included in writings of Herodotus, Caesar, Marco Polo, Chaucer, and Shakespeare
The Mastiff was bred to be a war dog, which is hard to believe if you are the beloved owner to a Mastiff! History shows Mastiffs hunting lions, fighting bulls, and even driving an elephant to its knees. Mastiffs were also known to be led into war by the thousands and being fierce fighters! There are even records of them being fought in the Roman Coliseum against bears, lions, tigers, bulls, boars, other dogs, and humans.
Even though their reputation was as a vicious fighter, they were also well known as guard dogs and loyal companions. In later years, the Mastiff was bred less to attack and more as a guardian and pet. When visitors came to the castles, the Mastiff was trained to walk close to the guest and lean heavily against them and growl. This was a show of, "I'm watching you!" rather than, "I'll eat you," and if you've ever had a 250 lb. dog lean all its weight against you and lowly growl, you can see that it's enough to know that you're on notice and best behave yourself.
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So here we have a 250lb dog, that stands at about the same height as a calf, that has a huge head with massive jaw muscles with a bite that could easily crush a human skull, especialy a child's, and that's nowadays after a few hundred years of breeding them down to make them 'nicer.' They were probably quite a bit bigger when they were being bred as fighting/war dogs and as any dog breeder can tell you, in breeds that have been bred down from larger breeds, you can occasionaly get what is known as a 'throwback.' eg. shelties have been known to give birth to pups that grow into full sized rough collies (lassy dogs) which are about twice the size of a sheltie. If you look at the picture, you can also see how easily the brindle colouring can look like the 'stripes' that were mentioned earlier.
If these dogs were used in war, in the numbers quoted above, then it's fair to say that over the years, quite a lot of them would probably get lost/escape/run away in the confusion of battle and gone feral and if there were both male and female mastives escaping into the wild, then there could have been wild packs of them living all over europe. Quite often in countries that still have wild wolves, feral dogs have been known to interbreed with them so imagine what an 'old style' mastive/wolf hybrid would look like. There could even have been whole packs of mastive/wolf hybrids.
 
"Mastiff" makes one heck of a lot more sense than "hyena."

But now we have to explain why the French peoples of the 17th, 18th and even the early 19th Centuries couldn't recognize "big dog."

The inhabitants of Gevaudan, especially, know their wolves and live at peace with them. In bad winters the humans go out and feed the wolves and build them wind-breaks and shelters.

So it's unthinkable to me that these people wouldn't have immediately recornized wolves, mastiffs and wolf-mastiff hybrids.

But what the survivors reported seeing was something entirely new to them! That's exceptionally difficult to square with either wolves or dogs or even with a combination of the two.
 
One thing which remains unclear to me even after all the reading I've done on the Gauvedan terror:

What were the "regulation" Gevaudan wolves doing during the reign of the Bete?

A few seem to have been killed, "Look! I've shot the Beast!", but only a very few.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
"Mastiff" makes one heck of a lot more sense than "hyena."

But now we have to explain why the French peoples of the 17th, 18th and even the early 19th Centuries couldn't recognize "big dog."

The inhabitants of Gevaudan, especially, know their wolves and live at peace with them. In bad winters the humans go out and feed the wolves and build them wind-breaks and shelters.

So it's unthinkable to me that these people wouldn't have immediately recornized wolves, mastiffs and wolf-mastiff hybrids.

But what the survivors reported seeing was something entirely new to them! That's exceptionally difficult to square with either wolves or dogs or even with a combination of the two.
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Although descriptions tend to vary a bit, most of them seem to describe a 'large wolf-like creature' so it would make sense for it to be either a large wolf, a large wolf/dog hybrid or a large dog that resembles a wolf.
In June 1765 François Antoine (AKA Antoine de Beauterne), the king's harquebus bearer and chief huntsman, and who held the title of Great Louvetier (wolf hunter) of the realm, was put on the case. On September 21, 1765, Antoine killed a big gray wolf measuring 80 cm high, 1.7 m long, and weighing 60 kg. The wolf was called 'Le Loup de Chazes,' after the nearby Abbaye des Chazes. It was agreed locally that this was quite large for a wolf. Antoine officially stated: "We declare by the present report signed from our hand, we never saw a big wolf that could be compared to this one. Which is why we estimate this could be the fearsome beast that caused so much damage." So from this account, we know that at least one overly large wolf was present at the time. As we also know, wolves live in packs where the largest most aggressive male becomes the leader of the pack (known as the alpha male) and it is usualy only this wolf that is allowed to breed with the female wolves, so if large dogs like mastiffs (or even wolf hounds, or great danes, all of which were common dogs in europe during the time) were interbreeding with wild wolves, you can imagine how their genes could be mixed in with the local wolf gene pool, creating larger than average wolves.
Another thing to consider is that feral wolf/dog hybrids tend to be a bit more aggresive that a normal wolf. Also, under normal circumstances a normal wolf in the wild would tend to avoid man rather than attack him. People can live in wolf populated areas without seeing one during their entire life. Nowadays we have television, the internet, encyclopedias ect. and almost everyone has visited a zoo at some time or another, so everyone has a pretty good idea of what a wolf looks like, but in rural 1700s France, this kind of information just wasn't available. Even today, with all this available information, when people actualy see a real live wolf in the flesh for the first time, they are usualy taken aback somewhat because it doesn't appear quite like they imagined it. People tend to think of a large majestic, muscular, maned, canine creature, when infact, most of them are smaller than the average German Shepard, have a rather scrawny appearence and tend to skulk around, unless they're the alpha male or female. So I not only think that it's possible that these people wouldn't have immediately recognized the difference between wolves and wolf/dog hybrids,' I think it's highly likely. Also, large dogs like mastiffs and wolfhounds were only really kept by those that could afford to feed them, so the average French rural farmer may never have seen one of those before either.
 
QuaziWashboard said:
....in fact, most....[wolves] are smaller than the average German Shepard.
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I have to confess that I didn't realize that. Thank you for enlightening me.
 
Wolf weight and size can vary greatly worldwide, though both tend to increase proportionally with higher latitudes. The largest being the Alaskan wolves and the smallest come from the Arabian Wolf subspecies, the females of which may weigh as little as 10 kg (22 lb) at maturity. Generally speaking, height varies from 24–32 inches at the shoulder, and weight can range anywhere from 23–59 kilograms. The European Grey Wolf (which is what were talking about here) stands at around 25 inches at the shoulder.

German Shepards also vary quite a lot in size depending on the 'stock' they are bred from. The German lines of the German Shepherd tend to be larger dogs with a broader head and darker coat. The American lines of the German Shepherd, have become smaller with less sloping to their hips. Belgian Shepherds, which are basicaly a bred down version of a German Shepard is a medium-sized, hard-working, square-proportioned dog in the sheepdog family. Males stand between 24 and 26 inches, and weigh approximately 65 lb. The Shiloh Shepherd on the other hand is the giant of the German Shepard family. The male Shiloh stands 30 inches (76 cm) or more in height with a minimum of 28 inches (71 cm); he weighs 140 to 160 pounds (63.5-72.5 kg) with a minimum of 120 pounds (54.5 kg).

Generaly speaking even if you have a wolf and German Shepard of the same height, the German Shepard will have quite a bit more muscle than the wolf. Add to this the thicker longer coat of the German Shepard and suddenly, when you stand the wolf next to the dog, the wolf doesn't appear to be quite as impressive, which makes sense when you consider that part of the job German Shepards were bred for was to protect livestock from wolves.
 
Was there a prehistoric European or more specifically French wolf comparable to the American dire wolf?
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Was there a prehistoric European or more specifically Frernch wolf comparable to the American dire wolf?
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Well as far as anyone knows, the Dire Wolf itself only existed in North America, it seems this part of the world is perfect for the evolution of larger than average wolves. But I personaly know of no fossil evidence of oversized prehistoric wolves on the entire continent of Europe Africa and Asia or anywhere else apart from the Dire Wolf in North America, and after considerable searching of the net can find nothing whatsoever.

There was a prehistoric wolf-like creature called Andrewsarchus Mongoliensis which was a giant mammalian predator of Central Asia and the largest, and most famous member of the mesonychids, a group of extinct prehistoric mammals. The mesonychids were the only known group of ungulates (hoofed mammals) to become carnivorous, and looked vaguely like wolves, with blunt, hoof-like nails instead of claws.
Andrewsarchus is known only from an enormous, meter-long skull and pieces of bone, but the skull's similarity to that of smaller mesonychids suggests that Andrewsarchus had the same wolf-like body on a larger scale. The skull, the only fossil bone known, was itself over a metre long. Extrapolating from the body proportions of similar mesonychids, Andrewsarchus was most likely about 4-6 metres (13-18 feet) long, standing nearly 2 metres (6 feet) at the shoulder, making it the largest terrestrial carnivorous mammal that has ever existed
 
Yeah, I think there have been suggestions that the Beast was from a relict population of mesonychids which would be fantastic if true but it seems unlikely that such a large and unusual mammal could have survived unnoticed in Europe until such recent times.
 
Is there any chance at all that the Gevaudan beasts might have been Tasmanian "tigers" brought back by some unrecorded traveller to Van Dieman's Land (Tasmania) or to newly-discovered Australia?

The "stripes" reported on the Gevaudan Beasts would certainly support Tasmanian Tigers was well as hyenas.

But the problem with either animal is that they would have had to have been imported at least three or four times to satisfy all the "Beast" attacks of the 17th, 18th and early 19th Centuries. Gevaudan certainlty doesn't stand alone in Beast attacks, and the 1690s attacks alone claimed TWICE as many lives as those in the Gauvedan region.
 
Hyena Question

Over the years I've managed to pick up two entirely different mental images of Hyenas, and both came from professional naturalists who were at least supposed to know what they were talking about.

The first is "dirty, disgusting, cowardly little scavengers who live on the left-overs of the kill that the higher animals won't even touch."

But the second is "ravening, carnivorous predators who will attack and kill anything in their path, including humans. They have been known to wipe out entire hman villages."

Which is correct?
 
Is there any chance at all that the Gevaudan beasts might have been Tasmanian "tigers" brought back by some unrecorded traveller to Van Dieman's Land (Tasmania) or to newly-discovered Australia?

The "stripes" reported on the Gevaudan Beasts would certainly support Tasmanian Tigers was well as hyenas.
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I don't think so. Tassie tigers were not very big - I saw a stuffed on in the Melbourne Museum and it was smaller than a German Shepherd. I also understand that the thylacine was a shy creature and certainly not a danger to humans.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Is there any chance at all that the Gevaudan beasts might have been Tasmanian "tigers" brought back by some unrecorded traveller to Van Dieman's Land (Tasmania) or to newly-discovered Australia?

The "stripes" reported on the Gevaudan Beasts would certainly support Tasmanian Tigers was well as hyenas.

But the problem with either animal is that they would have had to have been imported at least three or four times to satisfy all the "Beast" attacks of the 17th, 18th and early 19th Centuries. Gevaudan certainlty doesn't stand alone in Beast attacks, and the 1690s attacks alone claimed TWICE as many lives as those in the Gauvedan region.
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Whatever it is/was, it's not a thylacine (tasmanian tiger/wolf). Although records of the Gevaudan Beasts tend to vary a bit, one thing they all agree on is that it was a 'large' wolf-like creature, but the average thylacine only reached a length of 30 to 40 inches (not including tail) giving it an average shoulder height of around 18 inches, about the size of a whippet dog, or to give you a better idea, it would come up to just under the average man's knee.
 
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