The Bible: What Is Its Purpose?

[OldTimeRadio]

It is also actually widely believed that the passage concerning "Christus" was a later addition made by Christian scribes....Bear in mind however that what little Tacitus does say of the Christians, it isn't favorable.

Had Tacitus' mentions of Christ and Christians been glowingly favorable I'd likely agree with you that those passages were pious forgeries added by Christians centuries later. But the very fact that those mentions are hands-down BLASPHEMOUS by Christian belief is usually interpreted as argueing against this.

 

[ghostdog19]

It is also actually widely believed that the passage concerning "Christus" was a later addition made by Christian scribes....Bear in mind however that what little Tacitus does say of the Christians, it isn't favorable.

Had Tacitus' mentions of Christ and Christians been glowingly favorable I'd likely agree with you.

Not my opinion for you to agree or disagree with I'm sorry to say.

 

[Timble2]

BTW: It's well known that Pontius Pilate was actually born in Fortingall, in Perthshire, and in a village in Spain and also in a village in Germany...which says something about the reliability of the historical record, though his actual existence is undoubtably set in stone.

For someone like Jesus, who wasn't anyone important in the Roman or Jewish state apparatus, it's not surprising that there're no apparent contemporary records.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Gladiator Wags- Are they just too thin? pages 1,2,3
Man raises dead - page 22.

 

[Anonymous]

Man raises dead - page 22.

Are you sure that that's not "Man raises bread - page 22, TWO FAT DUCKS!"

EDIT - Oh, I'd burn in hell if it wasn't made up by 'MAN' to frighten idiots into giving their money away for salvation! (PM me your bank details and I'll save you!).

 

[OldTimeRadio]

BTW: It's well known that Pontius Pilate was actually born in Fortingall, in Perthshire, and in a village in Spain and also in a village in Germany...which says something about the reliability of the historical record, though his actual existence is undoubtably set in stone.

And he's supposed to have committed suicide by jumping into Lake Pilatus in Italy, with that volcanic body of water reportedly giving a little burp of sulphuretted joy in reply.

No, wait, that doesn't quite work either, since both both Pilate and Mrs. Pilate (Procula) are saints in the Ethiopian church.

Again, Pilate's historicity seems established not only by the mention in Tacitus but by the cornerstone unearthed in Jerusalem around 45 years ago.

 

[QuaziWashboard]

I suppose this is similar to the differing accounts in the gospels about Christ, both the ones that made it into the Bible and the ones that didn't. Because they were all written by different people with different viewpoints and different personal beliefs, sometimes many, many years after the events they're actualy writing about.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

I suppose this is similar to the differing accounts in the gospels about Christ, both the ones that made it into the Bible and the ones that didn't. Because they were all written by different people with different viewpoints and different personal beliefs, sometimes many, many years after the events they're actualy writing about.

Of course there were "different viewpoints" among the early Christians just as there were among the Founding Fathers of the United States. But the fact that Jefferson was at odds with Adams and Adams at odds with just about everybody doesn't prove that the Founding Fathers didn't exist. Nor does it detract from the Greater Work they nevertheless managed to accomplish.

In general, the "gospels" that didn't make it into the New Testament tended to be those which WERE "written....many, many years after the events...."

In fact, ersatz "gospels" CONTINUED to be written long after the New Testament had reached the form in which we know it today.

That's especially true of the so-called "Infancy Gospels" which portray the boy Jesus as a totally malignant little monster whose chief delight lay in murdering his playmates....and their parents, too, when they dare object to the little creep's deprecations.

Whoever wrote this garbage, glorifying Jesus Christ had no place in their agenda.

 

[witchflame]

Ive known someone use a gideons bible as rizlas.

a large bible:
A good door stop.
For the striking of ganglions.
An aid to increase in height.
Firelighters.
Flattening of molehills on ones lawn.
Purely decorative.

:devil: :vampire: :monster: :furious: :lol:

 

[JamesWhitehead]

"a totally malignant little monster whose chief delight lay in murdering his playmates....and their parents, too, when they dare object to the little creep's deprecations. "

Stop fighting it. That version won!

 

[jefflovestone]

No, wait, that doesn't quite work either, since both both Pilate and Mrs. Pilate (Procula) are saints in the Ethiopian church.

They made a vampire a saint? What kind of religion is this?

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Ive known someone use a gideons bible as rizlas.

a large bible:
A good door stop.
For the striking of ganglions.
An aid to increase in height.
Firelighters.
Flattening of molehills on ones lawn.
Purely decorative.

Heck, I've used five of these eight my own self.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

They made a vampire a saint? What kind of religion is this?

Procula, not Dracula. Sheesh!

 

[jefflovestone]

Sheesh!

Whoosh!

:lol:

 

[QuaziWashboard]

I suppose this is similar to the differing accounts in the gospels about Christ, both the ones that made it into the Bible and the ones that didn't. Because they were all written by different people with different viewpoints and different personal beliefs, sometimes many, many years after the events they're actualy writing about.

Of course there were "different viewpoints" among the early Christians just as there were among the Founding Fathers of the United States. But the fact that Jefferson was at odds with Adams and Adams at odds with just about everybody doesn't prove that the Founding Fathers didn't exist. Nor does it detract from the Greater Work they nevertheless managed to accomplish.

No, but it does at least show that not everything written in the Bible is true. When you have a few accounts of the same thing and none of them agree, then it's apparent that either all, or all but one of the accounts is not a wholefully truthful account.

 

[Analogue Boy]

At the risk of criticism for going off thread, say Jesus actually did return and wanted to use a medium to promote his ministry...what would be the best er, medium?

We all look at stuff on youtube and are sceptical. Eyewitness accounts would be crticised on a wider scale as being deranged. The average attention span for any news story is about two weeks. Books? Hmmmm David Icke has books. Photographs of miracles would be picked apart for photoshoppery. A series of DVD's perhaps? TV in this country is now widely reagarded as dumb-down and fake.

I mean, what is a Messiah to do?

 

[ghostdog19]

have you ever seen Russel T Davis' "Second Coming" with Christopher Ecclestone playing the son of god living in Manchester?

 

[GNC]

At the risk of criticism for going off thread, say Jesus actually did return and wanted to use a medium to promote his ministry...what would be the best er, medium?

How about appearing in dreams? Gets your message across but keeps the mystery and free will element. You can believe it or not.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

At the risk of criticism for going off thread, say Jesus actually did return and wanted to use a medium to promote his ministry...what would be the best er, medium?

...

If Jesus came back, based on the Bible, it's probably safe to say that he would not, under any circumstances, come back through the offices of a medium.

The story of King Saul, the spirit of the Prophet Samuel and the Witch of Endor 1 Kings (1 Samuel) Chapter 28, is quite clear on the dangers of dabbling in necromancy.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

....t does at least show that not everything written in the Bible is true. When you have a few accounts of the same thing and none of them agree, then it's apparent that either all, or all but one of the accounts is not a wholefully truthful account.

Christians have for centuries made a cottage industry of "explaining away" those supposed biblical contradictions, and we've actually gotten pretty good at it. So you might cite some of your favorites so as to let me have my shot.

 

[jefflovestone]

At the risk of criticism for going off thread, say Jesus actually did return and wanted to use a medium to promote his ministry...what would be the best er, medium?

We all look at stuff on youtube and are sceptical. Eyewitness accounts would be crticised on a wider scale as being deranged. The average attention span for any news story is about two weeks. Books? Hmmmm David Icke has books. Photographs of miracles would be picked apart for photoshoppery. A series of DVD's perhaps? TV in this country is now widely reagarded as dumb-down and fake.

I mean, what is a Messiah to do?

A green political platform. Working a few up-to-date, relevant and much needed miracles in this area coupled with some rabble rousing, large scale open air appearances.

I think it's fairly apparent that, generally, man doesn't really give a hoot about his fellow man: wars, famine and the like just wouldn't exist if that really was the case and I'm not convinced man, again generally, is that motivated to do something about it.

Now whilst I heard a frankly worrying statistic recently about how something like 21% of British people wouldn't recycle even if it was a certainty to save the planet and just couldn't be bothered, I think slowly people, again generally, are waking up to green issues, and I think if some environmental miracles were pulled out of the proverbial hat, then I think it would sway more than a few people.

 

[Analogue Boy]

have you ever seen Russel T Davis' "Second Coming" with Christopher Ecclestone playing the son of god living in Manchester?

I have. I own it on DVD. And a very good piece of telly it is too.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

At the risk of criticism for going off thread, say Jesus actually did return and wanted to use a medium to promote his ministry...what would be the best er, medium?

We all look at stuff on youtube and are sceptical. Eyewitness accounts would be crticised on a wider scale as being deranged. The average attention span for any news story is about two weeks. Books? Hmmmm David Icke has books. Photographs of miracles would be picked apart for photoshoppery. A series of DVD's perhaps? TV in this country is now widely reagarded as dumb-down and fake.

I mean, what is a Messiah to do?

Whether or not Jesus is ever going to return is predicated on the inspiration, accuracy and authenticity of the Christian scriptures. Because if those documents are "just folklore" there's almost certainly no Jesus Christ TO return.

But what those Scriptures call for is for Christ to return with a "Shout" and the blast of a trumpet to be heard all around the world and for Christ to be surrounded by myriads of angels. As I once heard a street preacher say about exactly this, "Man, this sucker's gonna be LOUD!"

If you can destroy the Universe with a bat of your eyelids, what need is there to issue magazines and videos?

You may remember several years back when Benjamin Creme's long-touted Maitreya cancelled his scheduled radio and television announcement to Britain and to the world "for technical reasons."

U bet.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Isn't that something to do with Jesus...sorry...Joshua...again?

What is the Bible for?

I say we give a man in an icy wilderness a bible and seven days.
By the end of the week, he'll either treasure it as food for the head or he sets it alight or uses it for toilet roll.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

I say we give a man in an icy wilderness a bible and seven days. By the end of the week, he'll either treasure it as food for the head or he sets it alight or uses it for toilet roll.

I've got news for you, my Fortean friend. If you stick me in the frozen wilderness with a Bible you can bet the house, the barn, the livestock and the FORTEAN TIMES collection that I'm going to use it for kindling and any other physical survival value it may have. You see, I can buy another one on my return.

 

[QuaziWashboard]

....t does at least show that not everything written in the Bible is true. When you have a few accounts of the same thing and none of them agree, then it's apparent that either all, or all but one of the accounts is not a wholefully truthful account.

Christians have for centuries made a cottage industry of "explaining away" those supposed biblical contradictions, and we've actually gotten pretty good at it. So you might cite some of your favorites so as to let me have my shot.

Ok, here's a few to be getting on with.
Enjoy.

Is God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen

Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus' first sermon, plain or mount?
Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

Can God be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18 )
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)

 

[ghostdog19]

Ok, here's a few to be getting on with.
Enjoy.

Is God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen

Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus' first sermon, plain or mount?
Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

Can God be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18 )
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)

Are we to assume you sat down one day and picked these out yourself? Or are you quoting some secularist or atheist website somewhere?

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

...

Are we to assume you sat down one day and picked these out yourself? Or are you quoting some secularist or atheist website somewhere?

Would that matter?

 

[ghostdog19]

...

Are we to assume you sat down one day and picked these out yourself? Or are you quoting some secularist or atheist website somewhere?

Would that matter?

Well, I think the fallacy of quoting out of context does matter, yes. Using contextomy to argue a point is deceptive. I'm simply trying to determine if it's deliberate (he has actually read the bible and is aware of the context) or unintentional (hasn't read the bible and is simply quoting from some secularist site where judging by the first quote, I suspect they haven't either).

 

[QuaziWashboard]

...

Are we to assume you sat down one day and picked these out yourself? Or are you quoting some secularist or atheist website somewhere?

Would that matter?

Well, I think the fallacy of quoting out of context does matter, yes. Using contextomy to argue a point is deceptive. I'm simply trying to determine if it's deliberate (he has actually read the bible and is aware of the context) or unintentional (hasn't read the bible and is simply quoting from some secularist site where judging by the first quote, I suspect they haven't either).

A bit of both actualy. I've read the bible from beginning to end but didn't neccesarily notice most of these contradictions on first reading because some of them are quite a distance apart and unless you've spent your whole life learning the Bible off by heart they're not exactly the kind of thing you'd notice straight away, especialy when you also have to get your head around the strange 'olde world' way that most of the Bible is phrased.
Quite a while ago I did indeed find some contradictions in a list that I subsequently looked up for myself and made sure for myself that they were actualy contradictions. I'd also like to point out that the list also contained 'supposed' contradictions that, once I looked them up myself, didn't seem (to me) to be contradictions at all.
Please take into consideration that I was invited by OldTimeRadio to come up with a list of Biblical contradictions for him to 'have a go at' more in the manner of harmless debating 'sport' than anything else, which is all that I have done. For you then to make accusations against me and even use the words 'secularist' and 'atheist' as if they are, at the worst 'scum' or at best, shouldn't be allowed to discuss the Bible, it's hardly surprising if I find your eliteist manner offensive.
Also, please take into consideration that I'd hardly be likely to find any Biblical contradictions on a pro-Bible site.
As Pietro_Mercurios asks, does it matter where I get my information from as long as I've done my homework and come to my own conclusions on the subject?
Please remember, the Bible is many different things to many different people and your view of it does not have to be shared by all, no matter how much you believe you are right. I started this thread to ascertain peoples different thoughts and views on the Bible in an attempt to better understand it.

Are we, in turn, to assume from your question that you'd rather criticize and attack someone who asks awkward questions about the Bible than simply answer the questions to the best of your ability yourself?

Also, are we to believe that you've never looked up information on the internet?