The Cash/Landrum UFO Case

INT21

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Yes, I've looked at it.

But your post #116 above gives the appearance you are referring to a dr wu post on this thread recently, not five years ago on another one.

#115 (the one before yours), was from Jan 2014
 

EnolaGaia

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... it was the poster @Sentry who exposed this case as heavily embellished by the researcher, but as he hasn't been back since I don't know where the investigation stands now. What appears to be clear is that the injuries or afflictions were not caused by radiation. So... possibly stress? Would that be plausible? Did they even see anything? Anyone heard any updates?
The Blue Blurry Lines blog has been getting updated ever since. It was updated as recently as last month.
 

Comfortably Numb

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@dr wu - it was the poster @Sentry who exposed this case as heavily embellished by the researcher, but as he hasn't been back since I don't know where the investigation stands now. What appears to be clear is that the injuries or afflictions were not caused by radiation. So... possibly stress? Would that be plausible? Did they even see anything? Anyone heard any updates?
I published online, way back, some hugely insightful material about this case. Essentially, concerning the, 'unidentified helicopters'...

There's evidently still a reference to this:

John Schuessler looked into this idea, but he never defined it very well. Lt. Col. George Sarran also looked into the source of the helicopters, including special forces operations, but results were negative. Most of my investigation in this area is following leads introduced by UK researcher James Easton. He demonstrated that Task Force 158 was created for a second rescue attempt of american Hostages held in Iran. They used modified helicopters, including CH-47s in order to conduct long-range covert nocturnal missions. this group was based out of Ft. Campbell, KY, but ran exercises as far west as California. The big problem with this theory is that there is no documentation of their flights continuing thorough December. Task Force 158 is a great suspect, but there's no evidence, and there should be piles of it with so much manpower and equipment involved.
 

INT21

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I could never see why anyone could deny that the victims were effected by radiation.

The symptoms didn't fit anything else.

If they had been thermal burns it would have been obvious.
 

GNC

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The Blue Blurry Lines blog has been getting updated ever since. It was updated as recently as last month.
And here's the post we want!

Doesn't explain the UFOs and helicopters, but does point out there were a fair few people around at the time of the encounter who saw nothing, and that Cash and Landrum were by no means healthy before they made their UFO claims. Same old story, really: cast iron case is undermined and called into question, happens a lot these days.
 

EnolaGaia

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I could never see why anyone could deny that the victims were effected by radiation.
The symptoms didn't fit anything else.
If they had been thermal burns it would have been obvious.
It's important to bear in mind that medical examinations didn't occur until months - and even years - after the incident. There was no examination of 'fresh' symptoms.

By and large these speculative diagnoses were based on patient's post hoc testimony rather than observable / physical evidence.

To the best of my recollection, no examining physician Cash or Landrum consulted was a specialist or expert on radiation sickness or effects. Also to the best of my recollection, none of the eventual examining physicians stated it was definitely radiation effects. Instead, they mentioned radiation effects as a category of malaise (a) they couldn't rule out and (b) was consistent with what the women reported.

In any case, any such 'radiation' need not have been of the nuclear-related variety. I seem to recall microwaves and intense ultraviolet light being mentioned as causes consistent with what we (think we) know about the symptoms.
 

eburacum

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Radiation poisoning from a short exposure presents in three main ways;
1/ a lethal dose kills you, quite quickly and horribly, within days or weeks. This didn't happen.
2/ A lower dose makes you sick, but you get better. A long time afterwards, many months or years, you may develop cancer; but it is often difficult to tell if this illness is associated with the dose received earlier or would have happened anyway.
3/ An even lower dose doesn't make you particularly sick, but many months or years later you may develop cancer; once again it is often difficult to tell if this illness is associated with the dose received earlier or would have happened anyway.
So there is no reason to definitely associate the Cash Landrum illnesses with this event, or to rule out a connection, for that matter.
 

INT21

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It's important to bear in mind that medical examinations didn't occur until months - and even years - after the incident. There was no examination of 'fresh' symptoms.

.

From Timothy Good's account in 'Above Top Secret'

Page 297,

Betty drove the others home and arrived at her house at 9:50 p.m Then Horrific physical symptoms began to appear.

Betty reported a blinding headache, pains in her neck and nodules on her head and neck that burst, seeping clear fluid. Her eyes swelled shut and she was unable to see properly, and suffered from nausea, vomiting and diarrhoea. Four days later she was admitted as a burns victim to Parkway General Hospital, Houston. Various specialists were called in but none were able to properly diagnose her complaints. A week after leaving hospital Betty had to return, still suffering from headaches, nausea, swelling and loss of appetite. Even more alarming her hair began falling out leaving a temporary bald patch....

Note, all within a week of the incident, not 'month -or even years'.

INT21.
 

EnolaGaia

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Right, but ... The ongoing medical inquiries stretched out over a much longer timeframe.
 

dr wu

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4 days after the event is not weeks, months, and years.....but more importantly why would too older women and a young child make up such a tale....to get free medical treatment..? That doesn't sound right either....and why elaborate the case of the ufo by claiming 20 helicopters or whatever..? They could have simply said they saw something weird and it burned them...why concoct such a tale?
It all sounds a bit ...odd.
 

EnolaGaia

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4 days after the event is not weeks, months, and years.....but more importantly why would too older women and a young child make up such a tale....to get free medical treatment..? That doesn't sound right either....and why elaborate the case of the ufo by claiming 20 helicopters or whatever..? They could have simply said they saw something weird and it burned them...why concoct such a tale?
It all sounds a bit ...odd.
The timeframe / delays issue isn't so much about what they saw as about the viability of attributing physical after-effects to a specific cause (in this case, "radiation" in the sense of nuclear / atomic radiation) that muddies the waters by magnifying the woo factor.
 

dr wu

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The timeframe / delays issue isn't so much about what they saw as about the viability of attributing physical after-effects to a specific cause (in this case, "radiation" in the sense of nuclear / atomic radiation) that muddies the waters by magnifying the woo factor.
I understand but obviously they had an illness....why claim such an event happened..? ...just to get treatment for something else..?
It seems an elaborate charade to go through unless they hoped to gain something.
 

EnolaGaia

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I understand but obviously they had an illness....why claim such an event happened..? ...just to get treatment for something else..?
It seems an elaborate charade to go through unless they hoped to gain something.
I don't think the incident was a total fabrication / charade intended to set the stage for filing a lawsuit, such as the one they actually filed seeking $20 million in compensation. This filing occurred sometime in August 1981 - circa 8 months after the incident.
 

INT21

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And I understand that the judge would not even see the plaintiffs.

'Not one of ours' hence case dismissed.

INT21.
 

INT21

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EnolaGaia,

The 'not one of ours' approach does not say that there was no object there. It allows two possibilities.

It was 'one of ours' but it is supposed to be secret and we can't (won't) accept responsibility for what happened as it will blow our cover.
Or, it must have been someone elses. Thus we have to come out and say that some form of extraterrestrial machine was there.

Even if the illness was cause by some other form of radiation, such as microwave, it would not detract from the case.

I.e. Something was there.

INT21.
 

EnolaGaia

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The 'not one of ours' approach does not say that there was no object there. It allows two possibilities.
It was 'one of ours' but it is supposed to be secret and we can't (won't) accept responsibility for what happened as it will blow our cover.
Or, it must have been someone elses. Thus we have to come out and say that some form of extraterrestrial machine was there.

Even if the illness was cause by some other form of radiation, such as microwave, it would not detract from the case. ... .
Oh, I agree ... The incident was vaguely described, and there are all sorts of hypothetical scenarios that could be read into the description of what happened.

Some folks have focused on the notion they could have encountered some sort of military exercise, most commonly suggested to have been a special forces rehearsal for a rescue mission in Iran. This sort of scenario would explain all the alleged heavy choppers and a desire to keep the preparations secret.

If you take this training scenario one step further, it might help to explain what happened that night. In Vietnam the Chinook twin-rotor heavy helicopter was used as a lifter in downed aircraft recovery ops. One might suggest a special ops rehearsal exercise was underway, and the plan included using such copters to lift something off the ground and make away with it.

The one military or space related scenario I don't buy is any sort of field trials of new technology or aircraft. Such trials wouldn't have been conducted in as populated a locale as the greater Houston metro area. If such a trial had involved takeoffs and / or landings, a small road within a wooded expanse would be about as awful a test site as one could imagine.
 

INT21

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That last paragraph says it all as far as the UFO phenomena goes.

If they are 'ours', would we fly them over cities ?

INT21.
 

EnolaGaia

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... The 'not one of ours' approach does not say that there was no object there. It allows two possibilities. ...
You omitted a third possibility - that something was there, but the witnesses (for who knows what reason(s) ... ) over-sold and / or undermined their own story by glossing it with details that couldn't be truthful.

In re-reading the transcript of Betty Cash's August 1981 interview with USAF personnel I was struck by something I kick myself for not noticing before. She stated the twenty-some helicopters she'd seen and counted were of the tandem (twinned main) rotor variety and affirmed they were, or were equivalent to, American military CH-47 Chinooks. She also stated she'd been able to read writing on these Chinooks' sides that labeled them as US Air Force vehicles.

USAF never owned or operated Chinooks (or similar twin-rotor heavy copters). They (including the seaborne variant) were only used by the Army, Navy, and Marines.
 
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Goodness - I remember reading about this case in the way back (must've been mid to late 80's, when I was devouring the local libraries UFO?Paranormal collection!).

I remembered reading something about the USAF denying involvement on the basis they never operated that type (CH-47 Chinook) and always wondered if that might just have been a crafty dodge because the helicopters where instead CH-46 Sea Knights...

That was in the days before the internet though, and checking wasn't quite so easy as a quick websearch!

On the occasions that its popped back into my mind I've never been able to trace it (weak Google-fu, unable to recall any names/locations/dates!), or find again the detail of the USAF's denial of operating the Chinook.

She also stated she'd been able to read writing on these Chinooks' sides that labeled them as US Air Force vehicles.

USAF never owned or operated Chinooks (or similar twin-rotor heavy copters).
Of course now that I finally connect with the case again, a quick websearch shows that whilst the USAF did order a small number of Sea Knights, they cancelled before receipt, and never operated those, either.

So there goes that idea!

Still, nice to get that particular 'spirit' 'exorcised', if you'll pardon the turn of phrase!

Edit: stuffed up quoting @EnolaGaia , d'oh!
 

Bigphoot2

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You omitted a third possibility - that something was there, but the witnesses (for who knows what reason(s) ... ) over-sold and / or undermined their own story by glossing it with details that couldn't be truthful.

In re-reading the transcript of Betty Cash's August 1981 interview with USAF personnel I was struck by something I kick myself for not noticing before. She stated the twenty-some helicopters she'd seen and counted were of the tandem (twinned main) rotor variety and affirmed they were, or were equivalent to, American military CH-47 Chinooks. She also stated she'd been able to read writing on these Chinooks' sides that labeled them as US Air Force vehicles.

USAF never owned or operated Chinooks (or similar twin-rotor heavy copters). They (including the seaborne variant) were only used by the Army, Navy, and Marines.
I get the occasional Chinook or two flying over where I live and they are LOUD! You can hear them from miles away and when they get closer things start rattling in the house. I can't imagine what twenty would sound like but the racket must have been heard over a considerable distance and it would have seemed like a small earthquake.
 
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I get the occasional Chinook or two flying over where I live and they are LOUD! You can hear them from miles away....
QFT, as we (well, some of us!) used to say! Don't see many in my neck of the woods, but i expect to see one crossing the horizon on its way to the RAF Waddington airshow in a couple of weeks (if it still takes place!), and I'll certainly hear it long before I see it!

Edit: Oh, they cancelled the Waddington show back in 2015, so its been longer than I thought since I saw one!
 
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