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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

BUT the destruction of the German economy after WWI and later the Depression
worked together in creating the chemistry that facilitated the rise of fascism and
eventually WWII.

My basic point being that destabilizing the World's economy is not a good thing
- Unless there is an agenda..........And at this point that would be a conspiracy theory.

And there are already many conspiracy theories of what really caused
the Great Depression.

Today at least governments are trying to boost their economies, something they did
not do back in 1929 - Still they are boosting the effects of their own actions
- Actions supposedly for the public's benefit.

Again I ask - 1. How many people will really be saved by the current protocols;
I know they say China has gotten it under control - Or did the virus just run out
of steam in China. 2. Are the consequences of the protocols of stopping world
trade and business going to lead to consequences worse than the disease ???

The reason for the lockdowns is that nobody knows the potential harm this new virus can do. There are a lot of people around the world who's job it is studying this stuff and let their government know how to try and deal with it. I've done joint training with Public Health folk before all this kicked off and by god, they take their job seriously. Most of the sensible governments like South Korea, Singapore, New Zealand, (early days I know), have gone at it hard to break the chains of transmission. They've listened to their experts.

The rich already own most of the wealth on the planet they really don't need that much more. Killing us and some of themselves off isn't good for business.

There are many theories as well as to what started the great depression, not just conspiracy theories. None of the real theories involve the Spanish flu. It's more likely just the bust that followed boom that was overspending in the 20's.

It is a gamble going hard at the virus but what choice do we have? If we really get it wrong than the death toll could be incredible. It isn't the flu. It's something different and it's new so we haven't studied it. Throw in years of neglect of health services with lack of staffing and equipment and we really are between the devil and the deep blue sea.

We've gotten over depressions and market crashes before, we've not had a pandemic like this for years.

Rather than look at reptiles and aliens why don't you try and look at the science?
 
Rather than look at reptiles and aliens why don't you try and look at the science?

Sure, I'm all for science - But the title of the thread was:
"The Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak: Conspiracy Theories & Claims"

And like good science fiction I like interesting conspiracy theories
even if they turn out false - And like I said earlier few can be proven even though
many have 'some' validity.

Are there some people and/or special interests that are going to benefit from this
pandemic?

Sure there are - And the idea of studying the conspiratorial angle is to rule out the possibility that 'they' had something to do with either the initiation of the pandemic and/or the way it is being handled.
 
Sure, I'm all for science - But the title of the thread was:
"The Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak: Conspiracy Theories & Claims"

And like good science fiction I like interesting conspiracy theories
even if they turn out false - And like I said earlier few can be proven even though
many have 'some' validity.

Are there some people and/or special interests that are going to benefit from this
pandemic?

Sure there are - And the idea of studying the conspiratorial angle is to rule out the possibility that 'they' had something to do with either the initiation of the pandemic and/or the way it is being handled.

Yeah, but a conspiracy theory has to a kernel of plausibility behind it. JFK - more than one gunman, Lady Di - the royals had lost patience with her. Marilyn Monroe- was going to spill the beans on her affairs, etc.

Linking Ronnie talking about aliens and world harmony, (a very obvious way of trying to steal Gorbachev's limelight as a world peace leader), is hardly a cast-iron connection to a new virus.

Also, your theories are pretty tenuous at the very least. At least when I was a conspiracy buff back in the day before the internet you had to actually go out there and read things, talk to people and not just post a meme from reddit.

So come on present an actual theory with stuff to back it up.

So skip the aliens and start with the source which to most of us is Wuhan.
 
Real natural virus or not - There is a reason to consider some type of conspiracy.
For example:

How does the new coronavirus compare with the flu?
By Rachael Rettner - Senior Writer a day ago
"
Editor's note: Updated March 25 with the latest information on COVID-19.

The new coronavirus causing COVID-19 has led to more than 454,000 illnesses and more than 20,550 deaths worldwide. For comparison, in the U.S. alone, the flu (also called influenza) has caused an estimated 38 million illnesses, 390,000 hospitalizations and 23,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). "
Source quote:
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

The author then goes on to explain that the flu is known and well studied
and Coronavirus isn't.

BUT I ask is this a good reason to cause worldwide panic and at least temporarily
stop the World's economy???

Do they have any real idea what the consequences of their actions are going to
leed to???

We already know what happened after WWI with the Great Depression, which
was not totally resolved until WWII.

You really can't blame 'conspiracy nuts' for being paranoid.

'Maybe' the UK was right in their first inclination of letting the virus run its course???

I don't have the answer but your government, my government and other
governments of the World maintain 'think tanks' of supposedly very intelligent
people to consider actions and consequences.

Only time will tell if they made the right one this time !!!


I think this is the question every thinking person would like answered. I have pointed out several times (even before Trump did) that the consequences of fighting the Coronvirus could be worse than the virus itself. The Depression of the 30's shows just how bad the consequences could be - and that was in a time when people were in general more self reliant (and died younger anyway). What actually caused the depression is irrelevant - we didn't close down the economy for Spanish 'flu - we have done for Covid-19.

But we don't know. We may not be being told everything (conspiracy) We may be grossly overreacting due to hysteria in the media. And as you say, only time will tell.

Last century this would have been accepted as a natural event to be endured, with the understanding that no conceivable care system can cope with hundreds of thousands of extra people suddenly becoming ill. (Including of course those manning the care systems)

This century it seems a majority of citizens expect the world's Governments to somehow make it all go away. That shift in public expectation is not sustainable.

I've already said that the UK will have done well if we get through this with between 5,000 and 50,000 deaths, based on previous pandemics. But you have to include in that total deaths caused by the measures to fight the virus as well as deaths actually caused by the virus. There is already a difficulty of access to the NHS for those with health problems other than the virus - if we have more deaths from pneumonia as a result of 'prioritisation' that has to be taken in to consideration.
 
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I think this is the question every thinking person would like answered. I have pointed out several times (even before Trump did) that the consequences of fighting the Coronvirus could be worse than the virus itself. The Depression of the 30's shows just how bad the consequences could be - and that was in a time when people were in general more self reliant (and died younger anyway).
I understand what you are saying and in a perfect scenario, the outbreak would be controlled at a level that doesn't quite kill a load of healthcare staff and give the rest nervous breakdowns whilst keeping the economy ticking over at some sort of basic level that causes minimal damage. In reality that is impossible. It is nothing to do with not being told everything. It is just that the disease can't be controlled in the way that we would like.
 
I understand what you are saying and in a perfect scenario, the outbreak would be controlled at a level that doesn't quite kill a load of healthcare staff and give the rest nervous breakdowns whilst keeping the economy ticking over at some sort of basic level that causes minimal damage. In reality that is impossible. It is nothing to do with not being told everything. It is just that the disease can't be controlled in the way that we would like.

Actually, (sorry :) ) my point was rather the opposite. In previous pandemics we have done nothing special to counter them - well, nothing on this scale. The health care resources have been overstretched, and sadly many people have died. But the 'collateral damage' has been minimal - as Naughty_Felid pointed out the Spanish 'flu did not lead to recession.

Here we may limit the number of people who die directly from the virus while causing a huge increase in those who die from indirect effects while the virus is raging and from the economic consequences of the unprecedented shutdown.

edit - someone has suggested to me that the root of the word 'influenza' is Spanish for 'Influence of the stars'. That has endless possibilities for both philosophical thought and black humour.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that the Swedish Government have crunched the numbers and are focusing on after the virus subsides, knowing that a large number of elderly people will be culled. I'm not implying that they are actively trying to finsish them off rather that they have quietly accepted that this is the natural order of things and are not willing to cripple the economy because of it.

Everything is still open and there are no restrictions of movement here. We have the slackest of rules in Europe when it comes to dealing with the virus. The advice hasn't changed since the first cases - wash your hands, stay home if you feel poorly and don't visit Granny. Yet old people are still going to social clubs, out in groups walking, meeting friends at the café for coffee, going to multi-generational birthdy parties etc. One famous journalist, a woman in her 70's, was interviewed and said words to the effect that , "I am not a child. I will go out if I want to and you can't decide over me." This from a journalist who knows what is going on. That is the Swedish mentality in a nutshell - unable to see beyond themsleves.

All we have been given is advice - even the idea of social distancing hasn't been suggested here, people are just doing it voluntarily after watching International news. Any businesses that have closed down have done so because of a drop in trade, not because they have been told to close. Financial packages have been offered but as the finance minister said yesterday (and I paraphrase), she has " a unique position. She has to make sure that the country has enough money in September to pay Child Allowance to millions of families and money in November to pay Nurses their salary before Christmas" etc. She said they will need to invest hundreds of millions more to kickstart the economy again and my feeling is that we are to just ride out the storm, suffer the casualties and keep going with a strong economy and a younger population. It would certainly solve the huge housing crisis and unburden the healthcare system.

So are they being calm, pragmatic and level headed i.e. Swedish? I think they are. Does that knowledge reassure me? No.
 
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People that are going to die from covid-19 are going to die from it anyway, whether that be today, tomorrow, or the next day.
The government IS fighting it though, as rather than allowing our NHS and funeral services etc to be overwhelmed by the infected people today, they'd rather it happens tomorrow or the next day, 'spreading the load' so that it is at least manageable.

And also,
At first it was rats, giving us plague.
Then it was bats, giving us covid.
I say we get rid of cats, before they can infect us with something.

I for one am going to stop wearing Hats and get rid of any Mats that I have.
Also in the bin are my recordings of Fats Domino.
 
It did come directly after WW1 though, maybe there was nowhere else for the economy to go?

It's seriously difficult to tell. In some ways all the deaths both from the war and the flu liberated a lot of money, so there was a demand led recovery from wartime. The resultant boom lasted until a combination of financial misjudgements - in particular the overproducton of agricultural produce and rampart short-term speculation in shares creating an insistence that the markets must move ever upwards.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that the Swedish Government have crunched the numbers and are focusing on after the virus subsides, knowing that a large number of elderly people will be culled. I'm not implying that they are actively trying to finsish them off rather that they have quietly accepted that this is the natural order of things and are not willing to cripple the economy because of it.

Everything is still open and there are no restrictions of movement here. We have the slackest of rules in Europe when it comes to dealing with the virus. The advice hasn't changed since the first cases - wash your hands, stay home if you feel poorly and don't visit Granny. Yet old people are still going to social clubs, out in groups walking, meeting friends at the café for coffee, going to multi-generational birthdy parties etc. One famous journalist, a woman in her 70's, was interviewed and said words to the effect that , "I am not a child. I will go out if I want to and you can't decide over me." This from a journalist who knows what is going on. That is the Swedish mentality in a nutshell - unable to see beyond themsleves.

All we have been given is advice - even the idea of social distancing hasn't been suggested here, people are just doing it voluntarily after watching International news. Any businesses that have closed down have done so because of a drop in trade, not because they have been told to close. Financial packages have been offered but as the finance minister said yesterday (and I paraphrase), she has " a unique position. She has to make sure that the country has enough money in September to pay Child Allowance to millions of families and money in November to pay Nurses their salary before Christmas" etc. She said they will need to invest hundreds of millions more to kickstart the economy again and my feeling is that we are to just ride out the storm, suffer the casualties and keep going with a strong economy and a younger population. It would certainly solve the huge housing crisis and unburden the healthcare system.

So are they being calm, pragmatic and level headed i.e. Swedish? I think they are. Does that knowledge reassure me? No.

Bit like the ättestupa in Midsommar, but for real and on a bigger scale.
 
For 'conspiracy nuts' only:

us5e6b9f65.jpg
People, usually politicians are talking about the need for a world government right now.
 
BUT the destruction of the German economy after WWI and later the Depression
worked together in creating the chemistry that facilitated the rise of fascism and
eventually WWII.

My basic point being that destabilizing the World's economy is not a good thing
- Unless there is an agenda..........And at this point that would be a conspiracy theory.

And there are already many conspiracy theories of what really caused
the Great Depression.

Today at least governments are trying to boost their economies, something they did
not do back in 1929 - Still they are boosting the effects of their own actions
- Actions supposedly for the public's benefit.

Again I ask - 1. How many people will really be saved by the current protocols;
I know they say China has gotten it under control - Or did the virus just run out
of steam in China. 2. Are the consequences of the protocols of stopping world
trade and business going to lead to consequences worse than the disease ???


Well if we are going to get factual, the problem with Germany was that the French imposed punishments which enraged but didn't contain a newly militarised nation. The failure to resist the occupation of the Rhineland meant that Hitler's bluff wasn't called. I will shut up now, as I know that I tend to go on.
 
People, usually politicians are talking about the need for a world government right now.
They would. I think there will be an equally strong argument that it is globalisation that has got us into this mess.
 
Downright dangerous advice.

‘This is insane!’ Many scientists lament Trump’s embrace of risky malaria drugs for coronavirus
By Charles PillerMar. 26, 2020 , 11:30 AM

When President Donald Trump recently touted the common malaria treatments hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine as potential remedies for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), he ignited unprecedented demand for the drugs—and set scientists’ teeth on edge. Although the World Health Organization (WHO) agrees the compounds are worth testing more fully on the pandemic coronavirus, few drug or infectious disease experts—not even the president’s own advisers—share his optimism that the drugs could become “one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,” as he tweeted. And many are critical of the small French clinical study of just 42 patients that seems to have touched off most of the excitement.

“The president was talking about hope,” Anthony Fauci, director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said diplomatically at one of the White House briefings where Trump praised the drugs’ potential.

Others are less diplomatic. Darren Dahly, a co-author of one of several critiques of the initial study and a principal statistician at the University College Cork School of Public Health, said it would be “egregious” to recommend treatments for millions of people based on such a small trial, regardless of its quality. “This is insane!” tweeted Gaetan Burgio, an Australian National University expert on drug resistance, noting what he sees as lapses in the 6-day trial, including inconsistent testing of virus levels in the patients.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/insane-many-scientists-lament-trump-s-embrace-risky-malaria-drugs-coronavirus
 
What we really need is for people to stop eating weird, wild animals, killed in desperately poor hygiene conditions; pet animals, although a few can infect humans with some nasty conditions, are not the problem.

China IS bad for this, there's no denying it, but they're not alone, much of Asia, Africa and South America are as bad, or nearly as bad anyway.

I was saying something akin to this to my dearest Mr Anon yesterday. Apart from a few rare exceptions involving domesticated mammals (eg insulin from pigs, hormones from mares) no proven medicinal benefit from any exotic or wild animal product has ever been found. The risks from eating animals like pangolins, reptiles or monkeys et al are just too high.

He's from Asia and finds the whole business disgusting. Novel viruses often cross from wild animals to domesticated animals and humans. This whole bloody crapstorm could have been avoided. Bastards. I hope this leads to a big change in attitude towards animal-derived 'medicine'.


And it isn't such a bad thing it's just what form it takes.

If it eradicates religion and wars them I'm all for it.
Shame about the religion bit, I quite enjoy the various traditions I've encountered and subscribe to one of 'em meself. I'm a bit of a church/temple/stupa/synagogue/mosque visitor on my days off, normally.
 
And it isn't such a bad thing it's just what form it takes.

If it eradicates religion and wars them I'm all for it.
My take on religion is that if it helps people live a good life and comforts them at the end then its a good thing, if its used by thugs to manipulate the naive then its a bad thing, unfortunately there is no black and white about this, some religions are better than others but all are subject to abuse by control freaks and people with a personal agenda .
 
I was saying something akin to this to my dearest Mr Anon yesterday. Apart from a few rare exceptions involving domesticated mammals (eg insulin from pigs, hormones from mares) no proven medicinal benefit from any exotic or wild animal product has ever been found. The risks from eating animals like pangolins, reptiles or monkeys et al are just too high.

He's from Asia and finds the whole business disgusting. Novel viruses often cross from wild animals to domesticated animals and humans. This whole bloody crapstorm could have been avoided. Bastards. I hope this leads to a big change in attitude towards animal-derived 'medicine'.

Shame about the religion bit, I quite enjoy the various traditions I've encountered and subscribe to one of 'em meself. I'm a bit of a church/temple/stupa/synagogue/mosque visitor on my days off, normally.

I just want people to stop eating / abusing animals at all.
 
Now let's step away from conspiracy for a moment.

I decided that in spite of all potentials for misuse of the current pandemic
- the mainstream decision to put the economies of the World on hold makes
perfect sense.

Yes, it is possible that letting the virus play out might not be as catastrophic as
some would predict - the ordinary flu kills many thousands per year and
Corona virus though more virulent might have its limitations.

Still, what harm is there in putting the World on hold for awhile if it will slow
the spread of this plague and allow us to study ways of getting control of it ???

No conspiracy - simple logic says 'they' have made the right choice
- Civilization is not collapsing, food is still plentiful as long as people stop
trying to horde it and the World's businesses will not collapse by
hibernating for a little while.

So take a brake and enjoy the moment - Maybe, just maybe, for the first time
in History the World's leaders made a good choice to unify and fight together
against the strange alien threat facing the World.

Welcome to "The New World Order" !!!
 
Now let's step away from conspiracy for a moment.

I decided that in spite of all potentials for misuse of the current pandemic
- the mainstream decision to put the economies of the World on hold makes
perfect sense.

Yes, it is possible that letting the virus play out might not be as catastrophic as
some would predict - the ordinary flu kills many thousands per year and
Corona virus though more virulent might have its limitations.

Still, what harm is there in putting the World on hold for awhile if it will slow
the spread of this plague and allow us to study ways of getting control of it ???

No conspiracy - simple logic says 'they' have made the right choice
- Civilization is not collapsing, food is still plentiful as long as people stop
trying to horde it and the World's businesses will not collapse by
hibernating for a little while.

So take a brake and enjoy the moment - Maybe, just maybe, for the first time
in History the World's leaders made a good choice to unify and fight together
against the strange alien threat facing the World.

Welcome to "The New World Order" !!!

Interesting! I've often thought that an expanding economy makes no sense. In the end we'd all have to buy/consume so much that we disappear up our own collective fundament. Static, or shrinking economies might just make sense after this - with the emphasis on quality of life, not quantity of stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady-state_economy

I have no opinion on aliens. I am agnostic on that subject :)
 
A number of businesses here are already starting to croak. We might well see the smaller ones die off untill all that is left are the megacorps.
 
This is a very good piece on 'The world coronavirus hoax', basically pointing out that there are many, very well qualified, people coming out with reports saying that the covid-19 is no worse than any annual seasonal flu, and how governments the world over are finding it convenient to use it to lockdown populations and rush to bring in new legislation.
Some of his way of communicating his opinion is a little gung-ho, but interesting nonetheless. And it's a bit of a long watch at 30 minutes but worth watching.
 
Caixin - a reputable Chinese website - is estimating the death toll in Wuhan, based on number of urns ⚱️ ordered by mortuaries, at 40,000. Nearly 20x official figures https://t.co/UBaEtZkTMy
Well that's bit silly. People are still going to be dying of all the other things people die of apart from Corona virus so of course they are going to need more urns than that.
 
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