The COVID-19 (Wuhan Coronavirus) Outbreak: Conspiracy Theories & Claims

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
2,384
Reaction score
3,595
Points
154
WHY CONSPIRACY THEORY ON COVID 19 ???

I live in Nevada USA - Population just over 3 million. There have been just over 6 thousands confirmed cases of Covid 19. Of these cases there have been 306 deaths - That's total 306 deaths! WOW!!! Heavens to Betsy {old colloquial expression of surprise}

And the governor is now saying the state has financial problems !?!? - What would you expect when you close down the main industry of the State {the casinos}. Sure it prevented the spread of the disease - But there wasn't much disease here in the first place - And that is in spite of people coming here from all over the World!

SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT - It doesn't add up!

Just from the point of view of here in Nevada, and I know you can find other places, the draconian reactions of the PTB are out of sync with reality - Unless there is some kind of agenda 'they' are not telling us about. Or did someone say Martians? - Maybe I should stick to Alien Conspiracy theories - They make more sense - Unless, unless this is an alien conspiracy ?
Welcome to "THE TWILIGHT ZONE" !!!
Ok, hold up there... So to your way of thinking three hundred people dying is no big deal? And allowing more sick people to just enter Nevada and infect more people is no big deal? What if even one of the dead people were one of your relatives, or two? At what point would you start to take this disease seriously? It sounds like if you were in charge there would be even more dead people than under Trump's monumental balls-up of a lockdown. Oh, and to top it off, you are crying "conspiracy theory", as if it had never occurred to you that the reason the whole of the USA isn't coughing itself to death is because there is a necessary quarantine and more US citizens have died of the disease than due to the whole of the Vietnam War. AV, there are whole countries out there who have done a better job of warding off C-19 than Nevada; Taiwan, Australia, and New Zealand for starters. My GF caught it in NYC and she says it was the worst illness she has ever had, and she didn't even need to go to the hospital. You need to get some perspective; if the disease simply spread thru the US population without quarantine the USA would lose about 6 million people, or more given how much of the population is diabetic or overweight. Even our present half-*ssed quarantine is better than that outcome.
 

Lb8535

Very charming snow person
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
921
Reaction score
1,663
Points
134
Location
EST
[
Ok, hold up there... So to your way of thinking three hundred people dying is no big deal? And allowing more sick people to just enter Nevada and infect more people is no big deal? What if even one of the dead people were one of your relatives, or two? At what point would you start to take this disease seriously? It sounds like if you were in charge there would be even more dead people than under Trump's monumental balls-up of a lockdown. Oh, and to top it off, you are crying "conspiracy theory", as if it had never occurred to you that the reason the whole of the USA isn't coughing itself to death is because there is a necessary quarantine and more US citizens have died of the disease than due to the whole of the Vietnam War. AV, there are whole countries out there who have done a better job of warding off C-19 than Nevada; Taiwan, Australia, and New Zealand for starters. My GF caught it in NYC and she says it was the worst illness she has ever had, and she didn't even need to go to the hospital. You need to get some perspective; if the disease simply spread thru the US population without quarantine the USA would lose about 6 million people, or more given how much of the population is diabetic or overweight. Even our present half-*ssed quarantine is better than that outcome.
Thank you. Nothing like the facts.
 

Cochise

Never give up, never surrender
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
5,896
Reaction score
6,953
Points
284
All that the above confirms is that most counties have not an effing clue what they are doing. There are honourable exceptions, of whom I would place as No. 1 Germany. (NZ, South Korea and some others have done well also), but any post-mortem has to explain why Germany has such a lower death rate than other Western European countries.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
1,827
Reaction score
4,256
Points
169
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
.....explain why Germany has such a lower death rate than other Western European countries.
It's a fair question - possibly there are two things which have a bearing on the numbers of deaths in Germany.
Firstly, Germany started off with a much bigger testing operation, and many more labs, than other European countries, enabling them to get a pretty good hold of the virus and it's spread from an earlier date.
Secondly, all countries use different reporting methods and have different ways of categorising their deaths, leading to different numbers. Maybe Germany is reporting C19 deaths as for those people that didn't also have some other 'comorbidity' which would kill them anyway, thus making their numbers appear fewer?
I'm just shooting the wind with that though, I have no numbers to back it up, it's only an idea. I'm pretty sure about Germany having more labs though.
 

Naughty_Felid

Antediluvian
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
7,018
Reaction score
8,650
Points
294
All that the above confirms is that most counties have not an effing clue what they are doing. There are honourable exceptions, of whom I would place as No. 1 Germany. (NZ, South Korea and some others have done well also), but any post-mortem has to explain why Germany has such a lower death rate than other Western European countries.
The thing with NZ was all about communication. NZ was also horribly short of testing and PPE, but "Aunty Cindy" just came out with the plan and told everyone to suck it up - it's going to be hard but deal with it.

As NZ moves to level 2 if the cases start to rise again, I fully expect her to lock it all down again as do most Kiwis and they accept it.

It's helped that they have a fairly independent press, (the two major web news/papers are rightwing), but the news terrestrial channels have been remarkably unbiased. There is very little mudslinging - I think that has been crucial.
 
Last edited:

Victory

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
662
Reaction score
1,405
Points
134
Location
London
There are honourable exceptions, of whom I would place as No. 1 Germany. (NZ, South Korea and some others have done well also), but any post-mortem has to explain why Germany has such a lower death rate than other Western European countries.
Some countries really must be studied.
Strong border controls plus track and trace have had a noticeable effect.

Taiwan
7 deaths from population of 23 million.

New Zealand
21 deaths from population of 4.8 million.

Israel
258 deaths from 9.1 million population.
 

AlienView

"Stargate Explorer"
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
290
Reaction score
213
Points
44
Location
Cyberspace
Ok, hold up there... So to your way of thinking three hundred people dying is no big deal? And allowing more sick people to just enter Nevada and infect more people is no big deal? What if even one of the dead people were one of your relatives, or two? At what point would you start to take this disease seriously? It sounds like if you were in charge there would be even more dead people than under Trump's monumental balls-up of a lockdown. Oh, and to top it off, you are crying "conspiracy theory", as if it had never occurred to you that the reason the whole of the USA isn't coughing itself to death is because there is a necessary quarantine and more US citizens have died of the disease than due to the whole of the Vietnam War. AV, there are whole countries out there who have done a better job of warding off C-19 than Nevada; Taiwan, Australia, and New Zealand for starters. My GF caught it in NYC and she says it was the worst illness she has ever had, and she didn't even need to go to the hospital. You need to get some perspective; if the disease simply spread thru the US population without quarantine the USA would lose about 6 million people, or more given how much of the population is diabetic or overweight. Even our present half-*ssed quarantine is better than that outcome.
First, I am taking it seriously - It is serious.

But..........and since this is the thread for cons;piracy related to covid 19
- I add what doesn't seem to add up

And suspect the so called pandemic is being driven by ulterior motivations
which are not only not saving Human life, but in fact, may be jeopardizing
Human life and Civilization itself.

Nevada has had 6 thousand confirmed cases, sounds serious.
But when you look at it the Covid 19 has only killed 300 - I could probably show you that the common cold and flu have probably killed more people, and for the
same reasons, age and underlining conditions.

Also, they have not effectively contained the pandemic
- And conspiracy theory implies it is not just because of Human incompetence
- Conspiracy theory implies that money and/or other special interests
are actually making a bad situation worse.


"Almost all people are hypnotics. The proper authority saw to it that the
proper belief should be induced, and the people believed properly."
- Charles Fort
 
Last edited:

Naughty_Felid

Antediluvian
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
7,018
Reaction score
8,650
Points
294
First, I am taking it seriously - It is serious.

But..........and since this is the thread for cons;piracy related to covid 19
- I add what doesn't seem to add up

And suspect the so called pandemic is being driven by ulterior motivations
which are not only not saving Human life, but in fact, may be jeopardizing
Human life and Civilization itself.

Nevada has had 6 thousand confirmed cases, sounds serious.
But when you look at it the Covid 19 has only killed 300 - I could probably show you that the common cold and flu have probably killed more people, and for the
same reasons, age and underlining conditions.

Also, they have not effectively contained the pandemic
- And conspiracy theory implies it is not just because of Human incompetence
- Conspiracy theory implies that money and/or other special interests
are actually making a bad situation worse.


"Almost all people are hypnotics. The proper authority saw to it that the
proper belief should be induced, and the people believed properly."
- Charles Fort
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic

"A pandemic is an epidemic occurring on a scale that crosses international boundaries, usually affecting people on a worldwide scale.[10] A disease or condition is not a pandemic merely because it is widespread or kills many people; it must also be infectious. For instance, cancer is responsible for many deaths but is not considered a pandemic because the disease is neither infectious nor contagious.[11]"
 

Ringo

Less than 2m away
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
2,901
Reaction score
4,437
Points
184
Location
Stockholm
Nevada has had 6 thousand confirmed cases, sounds serious.
But when you look at it the Covid 19 has only killed 300 - I could probably show you that the common cold and flu have probably killed more people, and for the
same reasons, age and underlining conditions.
This reasoning has been discussed and refuted many times over on this site and I can't be bothered to write it all out again but I'll give you the quick highlights:

Your line of thinking is exactly why the disease continues to spread and you have missed the sceintific and socioeconomic difference between a known disease (where there are natural "fire breaks" in the population and vaccinations) and a new disease (where there are no natural breaks, vaccinations or historical references). You prefer to see a "bad man" behind it all instead of just accepting that there is a new type of Corona virus (of which there are many such as the common cold) which has evolved in the world. No - it's not super deadly in the long scheme of things (maybe less deadly that the flu) but it is very serious now in the initial outbreak stage as there is no defence against it yet. Things must be done now to make sure it doesn't hit too hard.

Imagine this - there was 1 zombie running around somewhere in Nevada. It then bit someone, who then bit someone else etc etc and now we have 300 zombies running around - spread out all over Nevada. Well, a normal cold or flu has killed more than 300 so should we all just go outside? Is there a shady conspiracy keeping us all indoors? Or is is just common sense to maybe say out of the way? Especially those who are too fat, ill or stupid to get out of the way?

Now the zombie comparison isn't exactly right because you can see a zombie. You can't see a virus. Also, the zombies may wander off. The virus is here to stay. And don't forget that those 300 deaths are ON TOP of everything else going on. That's 300 people who would have been alive today if Covid-19 didn't exist. Without safety measures that 300 could very well have been 3,000 or it may still get there.

Nevada may have been protected because they closed down the casinos and less people travelled there. You are quite isolated in that respect with less travellers in and out now.
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
6,438
Reaction score
12,787
Points
309
All that the above confirms is that most counties have not an effing clue what they are doing. There are honourable exceptions, of whom I would place as No. 1 Germany. (NZ, South Korea and some others have done well also), but any post-mortem has to explain why Germany has such a lower death rate than other Western European countries.
l think that the countries with more rigorous definitions of what constitutes “death due to C19” will be reporting more realistic death tolls.

As l posted earlier, in the UK official guidance is:

“COVID-19 is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of completing the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death, even without the results of a positive test...”

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/2324/bma-verification-of-death-vod-april-2020.pdf

maximus otter
 

AlienView

"Stargate Explorer"
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
290
Reaction score
213
Points
44
Location
Cyberspace
7 people in Sweden told us why they think their government made the right call in having no coronavirus lockdown
How successful the plan will be is unknown for now: the death toll is far higher than many countries that locked down, but is also lower than other places with stricter responses.

"
Sweden's controversial plan to deal with the coronavirus allows most people to go outside, visits bars, restaurants, and shops, and keep life relatively normal as long as they try to stay distant from each other.

Not everyone in Sweden is happy with the approach. But even as deaths rise, the majority seems satisfied.

A poll this week showed that just 11% of people in the country said they did not trust state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, who is leading the strategy..........."

See whole article here:
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-why-people-are-happy-with-no-lockdown-coronavirus-plan-2020-5


Of course the economy of Sweden will not offset what is tuning into the
Worldwide depression that all the lockdowns in the rest of the World is
creating.

- Has anyone, say in those think-tanks governments pay for, considered the
net result of causing the World's economies to collapse?

Maybe they did and decided that if the Great Depression of 1929 contributed to
WWII, then the Great Depression of 2020 will contribute to WWIII
- Which will jump start the World's economies and help control the World's
population - An old conspiracy theory was that 'they; wanted to have a more
manageable and controllable worldwide population.

I guess we will soon find out.




"Here is the thing about the future. Every time you look at it , it changes, because you looked at it, and that changes everything else. "
- From the fictional Sci-fi movie NEXT written by Philip K. Dick and starring
Nicolas Cage
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
2,384
Reaction score
3,595
Points
154
First, I am taking it seriously - It is serious. But..........and since this is the thread for cons;piracy related to covid 19 - I add what doesn't seem to add up
Fair enough, I will treat your post in that spirit then. I have been on BS patrol of late, as I am reading people increasingly saying that the shutdown needs to end when the disease is still rampant.

And suspect the so called pandemic is being driven by ulterior motivations which are not only not saving Human life, but in fact, may be jeopardizing Human life and Civilization itself.
Or the disease might be helping human life and civilization too. Remember that the pandemic is giving nature a window of breathing space and allowing it to recover from relentless human greed and depredation. How close were we to trashing ourselves as a civilization and causing our own collapse due to screwing up the environment we depend on for food/air/water/etc? On another note, I am loving the low petrol price atm, and as a prepper, I was over-prepared for this little hiccup. Every cloud has a silver lining. Sure, it is bad for individuals, but the pandemic isn't so bad for the bigger picture.

Nevada has had 6 thousand confirmed cases, sounds serious. But when you look at it the Covid 19 has only killed 300 - I could probably show you that the common cold and flu have probably killed more people, and for the same reasons, age and underlining conditions.
You need to get the proper perspective. The proper figures for all respiratory illnesses plus complications, on average each year is about 250,000-350,000. We have had nearly that death rate in 2 months over and on top of the deaths we would see from flu etc. Thankfully, the quarantine has reduced the incidence of flu this year too thus far. It is super-rare for people to die of the common cold, and the only people seriously at risk are the ones who already have respiratory or immune response compromising diseases. Common cold itself, alone, hasn't killed anyone since colonial times, when it may have manage to wipe out some Australian Aboriginies who had no immunity to it.
Also, they have not effectively contained the pandemic
- And conspiracy theory implies it is not just because of Human incompetence
- Conspiracy theory implies that money and/or other special interests
are actually making a bad situation worse.
Yeah, but conspiracy theories always make the fallacious assumption that the powers that be are incapable of being incompetent, and that we are in fact, ruled by an evil and insidious intelligence that sees all and knows all, yet itself cannot be seen, but whose invisible hand moves events with an insidious subtlety. A malignant god if you will. Well, I am an atheist, and I like Occam's Razor. If the simplest answer that incorporates all the data, points to rampant incompetence, then that is the most likely answer.
"Almost all people are hypnotics. The proper authority saw to it that the proper belief should be induced, and the people believed properly."- Charles Fort
To counter the point that this quote is alluding to, think on this... All human society relies on trust. Laws exist to provide restitution to people whose trust has been abused. Education is based on the principle that the educator will only ever try to fool you in order to encourage you to think independently, and will in normal situations never abuse your trust that they are telling you information that they know to be reliable, if not true. After all, "true" and "truth" is an impossible hurdle to reach when humanity is still trying to understand the universe. There is also a huge misunderstanding about what hypnosis is. Did you know that a baby is in a constant state of hypnosis around their parent? They are seeing and learning from their parent's behavior and trying to make sense of it, and that places them in a hypnotically receptive state, but not a deep trance state. As you grow older you become resistant to new info and develop filters, and while it is possible for people to fool you, one needs to be a special kind of fool to be fooled all the time, and you will generally wind up in a cult as a result. Hypnosis has its limits.
 

Lobeydosser

Devoted Cultist
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
128
Reaction score
325
Points
79
Interesting video on Ft Detrick, Event 201 and "vaping"
The Coronavirus CONSPIRACY - Did COVID-19 Come from America? (by Nathan Rich)

 

Naughty_Felid

Antediluvian
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
7,018
Reaction score
8,650
Points
294

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
40,188
Reaction score
29,450
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar

Cochise

Never give up, never surrender
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
5,896
Reaction score
6,953
Points
284
Sorry nah. It's like Alienview but with a bit more thought.
Well it was the bit about why BAME patients could be adversely affected by what is after all not an approved treatment that i found interesting. And I did put it in conspiracies :)

I've gone beyond trying to point out to people that the damage from the lockdown is going to blight our children and grandchidren for a decade at least.
 
Last edited:

Victory

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
662
Reaction score
1,405
Points
134
Location
London
Well it was the bit about why BAME patients could be adversely affected by what is after all not an approved treatment that i found interesting. And I did put it in conspiracies :)
It reads to me not as a Conspiracy, but as a clear medical reason why more BAME patients have died, if they have been treated with a certain class of pharmaceuticals.

There has to be a some medical research already done on this, linked to how sickle cell anaemia and thalassaemia can be treated safely, with the link to how sickle cell patients have stronger resistance to malaria.


https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20450-how-sickle-cell-carriers-fend-off-malaria/
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
2,384
Reaction score
3,595
Points
154
This is interesting. Among other things it has put me right off the idea of treating COVID with hydroxychloroquine :

https://off-guardian.org/2020/05/13...9Urw_pTvu225qbXP64ZZ__-8Mv13y0QcB37a7LD3J30zg

I understand what he is saying but I have nothing like enough relevant knowlege to say if he is right or not.
Initial info coming out of China said that chloroquine drugs had proved effective. In fact the reverse was true. The anti-malarial compromised recovery, causing 13% more deaths than baseline.
 

Ogdred Weary

No Lives Matter
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
3,869
Reaction score
6,713
Points
209
Initial info coming out of China said that chloroquine drugs had proved effective. In fact the reverse was true. The anti-malarial compromised recovery, causing 13% more deaths than baseline.
Wha about bleach?
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
50,340
Reaction score
23,912
Points
284
Location
Eblana
Looks as if there's something to this case. Allegations remain against 3 other senators but they don't seem to be under formal investigation.

The Republican chairman of the US Senate intelligence committee will resign from the post amid an insider trading investigation.

Richard Burr of North Carolina would step down on 15 May, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said. It has emerged on Thursday that Mr Burr's phone has been seized by the FBI as part of the probe.

The senator is alleged to have used inside information to avoid market losses from coronavirus. He and his wife sold as much as $1.7m (£1.4m) of equities in February, just before markets plunged on fears of an economic crisis.

It is illegal for members of Congress to trade based on non-public information gathered during their official duties.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52668126
 

AlienView

"Stargate Explorer"
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
290
Reaction score
213
Points
44
Location
Cyberspace
AlienView said:
"Almost all people are hypnotics. The proper authority saw to it that the proper belief should be induced, and the people believed properly."- Charles Fort

To counter the point that this quote is alluding to, think on this... All human society relies on trust. Laws exist to provide restitution to people whose trust has been abused. Education is based on the principle that the educator will only ever try to fool you in order to encourage you to think independently, and will in normal situations never abuse your trust that they are telling you information that they know to be reliable, if not true. After all, "true" and "truth" is an impossible hurdle to reach when humanity is still trying to understand the universe. There is also a huge misunderstanding about what hypnosis is. Did you know that a baby is in a constant state of hypnosis around their parent? They are seeing and learning from their parent's behavior and trying to make sense of it, and that places them in a hypnotically receptive state, but not a deep trance state. As you grow older you become resistant to new info and develop filters, and while it is possible for people to fool you, one needs to be a special kind of fool to be fooled all the time, and you will generally wind up in a cult as a result. Hypnosis has its limits.
And all Human progress relies on not trusting the status quo thinking of the
society that used to burn people for heresy for expressing alternative narratives
for the so called science of the time. Society and what is corrupt in society relies
on what you call 'trust' - But I do trust every mobster, racketeer, corrupt and
myopic politicians to do whatever is necessary to distort the facts for his advantage
and the advantage of whatever conspiracy is to his or their advantage.

When Charles Fort said 'almost all people are hypnotics' he was using the phrase
to imply that people can be influenced, their judgement distorted by factors
beyond their perception - he was not necessarily referring to hypnosis per se.

And when you say "Hypnosis has its limits." Yes clinical hypnosis may have its
limits - But Human stupidity and gullibility does not. OR:

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

To sum up my concern in all the status quo thinking that this current pandemic
has generated, and the attempt to label anyone, including me, a quack for only
pointing out alternative views on the situation, is more dangerous than the
craziest conspiracy nuts talking today.

To allow Western style democratic governments to be completely destroyed
by the status quo paranoia that tries to tell us all alternatives are dangerous
- That is the real danger, as that danger in many ways can be more dangerous
than the disease.

Again let the Master speak:

“Collective hallucination is another of the dismissal-labels by which conventionalists shirk thinking. Here is another illustration of the lack of standards, in phenomenal existence, by which to judge anything. One man's story, if not to the liking of conventionalists, is not accepted, because it is not supported; and then testimony by more than one is not accepted, if undesirable, because that is collective hallucination. In this kind of jurisprudence, there is no hope for any kind of testimony against the beliefs in which conventional scientists agree. Among their amusing disregards is that of overlooking that, quite as truly may their own agreements be collective delusions.”
― Charles Fort, The Fortean Collection: The Book of The Damned, New Lands, LO!, Wild Talents, The Outcast Manufacturers
 
Last edited:

Cochise

Never give up, never surrender
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
5,896
Reaction score
6,953
Points
284
AlienView said:
"Almost all people are hypnotics. The proper authority saw to it that the proper belief should be induced, and the people believed properly."- Charles Fort



And all Human progress relies on not trusting the status quo thinking of the
society that used to burn people for heresy for expressing alternative narratives
for the so called science of the time. Society and what is corrupt in society relies
on what you call 'trust' - But I do trust every mobster, racketeer, corrupt and
myopic politicians to do whatever is necessary to distort the facts for his advantage
and the advantage of whatever conspiracy is to his or their advantage.

When Charles Fort said 'almost all people are hypnotics' he was using the phrase
to imply that people can be influenced, their judgement distorted by factors
beyond their perception - he was not necessarily referring to hypnosis per se.

And when you say "Hypnosis has its limits." Yes clinical hypnosis may have its
limits - But Human stupidity and gullibility does not. OR:

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

To sum up my concern in all the status quo thinking that this current pandemic
has generated, and the attempt to label anyone, including me, a quack for only
pointing out alternative views on the situation, is more dangerous than the
craziest conspiracy nuts talking today.

To allow Western style democratic governments to be completely destroyed
by the status quo paranoia that tries to tell us all alternatives are dangerous
- That is the real danger, as that danger in many ways can be more dangerous
than the disease.

Again let the Master speak:

“Collective hallucination is another of the dismissal-labels by which conventionalists shirk thinking. Here is another illustration of the lack of standards, in phenomenal existence, by which to judge anything. One man's story, if not to the liking of conventionalists, is not accepted, because it is not supported; and then testimony by more than one is not accepted, if undesirable, because that is collective hallucination. In this kind of jurisprudence, there is no hope for any kind of testimony against the beliefs in which conventional scientists agree. Among their amusing disregards is that of overlooking that, quite as truly may their own agreements be collective delusions.”
― Charles Fort, The Fortean Collection: The Book of The Damned, New Lands, LO!, Wild Talents, The Outcast Manufacturers
AlienView - I may not agree with what you are saying but you raise some interesting points. Thanks.
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
2,384
Reaction score
3,595
Points
154
"Almost all people are hypnotics. The proper authority saw to it that the proper belief should be induced, and the people believed properly."- Charles Fort

And all Human progress relies on not trusting the status quo thinking of the society that used to burn people for heresy for expressing alternative narratives for the so called science of the time. Society and what is corrupt in society relies on what you call 'trust' - But I do trust every mobster, racketeer, corrupt and myopic politicians to do whatever is necessary to distort the facts for his advantage and the advantage of whatever conspiracy is to his or their advantage.
Here you are actually talking about the Roman Catholic Church at the height of its social influence, NOT a modern secular democracy. Many people try to characterise their representatives as members of organized criminal syndicates or to dump other forms of opprobrium on them, but this is almost never actually true. Admittedly, we have witnessed some disturbingly obvious and amateurishly corrupt behavior out of the White House of late, but that is the exception, not the rule.

When Charles Fort said 'almost all people are hypnotics' he was using the phrase to imply that people can be influenced, their judgement distorted by factors beyond their perception - he was not necessarily referring to hypnosis per se.
Actually he WAS referring to hypnosis. Hypnosis is all about suggestion, and there are a lot of forms of hypnosis around. Advertising has fought long and hard to try to hypnotise people, but in present internet age, it has pretty much thrown in the towel. With too many rival hypnotists all sending different messages, people become increasingly hard to affect. Now it is easy to recognise that religion is very destructive. It undermines people's ability to reason, providing a false alternative narrative that purports to draw upon evidence, but when the evidence is examined it proves to be deeply flawed. Only slightly above the religious, but every bit as gullible are the conspiracy theorists. Crudely half of all conspiracy theories (possibly more) have their origins in Russia's intelligence networks, and are used as psychological operations to undermine Liberal Democracies that Russia feels threaten their interests. This drives conspiracy theorists to ultimately perform the GRU's intelligence gathering for them.

And when you say "Hypnosis has its limits." Yes clinical hypnosis may have its
limits - But Human stupidity and gullibility does not. OR:
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein
This is an unnecessarily critical view of humanity. The fact is that you can fool some of the people all of the time. These people are the problem, as they make themselves tools for psychopaths.

To sum up my concern in all the status quo thinking that this current pandemic has generated, and the attempt to label anyone, including me, a quack for only pointing out alternative views on the situation, is more dangerous than the craziest conspiracy nuts talking today.
You still have freedom of speech, but if you think that your opinions shouldn't be criticised, then you have missed the entire point of freedom of speech. The aim of freedom of speech is to put each opinion to a rigorous cross-examination in public forums, a form of peer review, to uncover their flaws, assumptions and misconceptions. This is why evidence is important. Say what you like, but remember that there are established facts in the present pandemic, and when you contradict those facts, your stated opinions need to be called into question. Lives are on the line here.

To allow Western style democratic governments to be completely destroyed by the status quo paranoia that tries to tell us all alternatives are dangerous - That is the real danger, as that danger in many ways can be more dangerous than the disease.
It is not the governments that are in any danger. That is your first mistake. The problem is the economies. Our democracies were threatened more by the immigration debate than by the present pandemic.

Again let the Master speak:
“Collective hallucination is another of the dismissal-labels by which conventionalists shirk thinking. Here is another illustration of the lack of standards, in phenomenal existence, by which to judge anything. One man's story, if not to the liking of conventionalists, is not accepted, because it is not supported; and then testimony by more than one is not accepted, if undesirable, because that is collective hallucination. In this kind of jurisprudence, there is no hope for any kind of testimony against the beliefs in which conventional scientists agree. Among their amusing disregards is that of overlooking that, quite as truly may their own agreements be collective delusions.”
― Charles Fort, The Fortean Collection: The Book of The Damned, New Lands, LO!, Wild Talents, The Outcast Manufacturers
Charles Fort, wisely, made it his business to draw attention to the frequent anomalies for which science had no answers, and he made a persuasive case because he drew upon evidence. Some of that evidence science was correct to be skeptical of and would later be proven to be a hoax. Some of that evidence would later be proven and understood, such as fish falls, which are now attributed to waterspouts i.e. tornadoes that occur over bodies of water. Of course some of the phenomena remain unexplained, but that is to be expected, as not everything can be smeared on a petri dish or put under a bell jar.

It is quite reasonable to seek answers to these unknown questions, but what you have written here says loud and clear that are placing yourself psychologically at odds with the scientific community AV. Why? Most scientists would like nothing more than to prove that there is something odd going on, but their standard of evidence is necessarily high. Then there are the pathological closed minded debunkers, who will never accept there is anything odd going on, and always assume that everything is a hoax. They are a tough audience, and a dragging anchor on investigating anything, but they are also not a majority. The main constraint on investigation is funding, not interest, from the scientific community. Your hostility is mainly very misplaced, unless your beliefs are pretty bizarre and unprovable.
 

AlienView

"Stargate Explorer"
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
290
Reaction score
213
Points
44
Location
Cyberspace
Here you are actually talking about the Roman Catholic Church at the height of its social influence, NOT a modern secular democracy. Many people try to characterise their representatives as members of organized criminal syndicates or to dump other forms of opprobrium on them, but this is almost never actually true. Admittedly, we have witnessed some disturbingly obvious and amateurishly corrupt behavior out of the White House of late, but that is the exception, not the rule.
Exceptions, yes, but unfortunately there are many exceptions.

Was just watching the daily news and as usual the later part of the show was at least
50% commercials, and
the common big pharma {drug company} commercials were
going strong; showing as they usually do people having 'fun' taking their drugs
while quietly saying in the background there may be side effects, including
heart failure and/or death - Reminded me of the old TV cigarette commercials
{are you old enough to remember them?}, people partying and having fun while
smoking - Of course back then they did not have to say cigarettes may cause
cancer, etc. - Otherwise the drug company commercials were similar to the
cigarette company commercials. A few years ago I read only the United States
and New Zealand allow drug companies to advertises on TV.
- In America money talks!
Why do I bring this up - Do I have a conspiracy concept up my sleeve?
Yes I do - Have you ever thought about the billions, maybe trillions of dollars
to be made on vaccines and cures for Covid19? - Would this same big pharma
go out of their way to disprove any and all palliative things that they can not
profit off of - They have done so in the past.
In a World where money talks and corruption is rampant
- Conspiracies are a natural response even if many prove to be invalid

Actually he WAS referring to hypnosis. Hypnosis is all about suggestion, and there are a lot of forms of hypnosis around. Advertising has fought long and hard to try to hypnotise people, but in present internet age, it has pretty much thrown in the towel. With too many rival hypnotists all sending different messages, people become increasingly hard to affect. Now it is easy to recognise that religion is very destructive. It undermines people's ability to reason, providing a false alternative narrative that purports to draw upon evidence, but when the evidence is examined it proves to be deeply flawed. Only slightly above the religious, but every bit as gullible are the conspiracy theorists. Crudely half of all conspiracy theories (possibly more) have their origins in Russia's intelligence networks, and are used as psychological operations to undermine Liberal Democracies that Russia feels threaten their interests. This drives conspiracy theorists to ultimately perform the GRU's intelligence gathering for them.
As stated advertising has not given up at all and is using its same old tricks
as cigarette advertisers of the past have done.

And as for the origin of conspiracies - who knows, I suppose if I searched hard
enough I could find conspiracies on why Cain slew Able.

And in fact I used to have a friend obsessed with the old conspiracy theory
about the Illuminati and Freemasons controlling the World.
A book on the subject "Proof of a Conspiracy" dates back to the 1700s

AlienView said:
And when you say "Hypnosis has its limits." Yes clinical hypnosis may have its imits - But Human stupidity and gullibility does not. OR:
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein
AlchoPwn replied:
This is an unnecessarily critical view of humanity. The fact is that you can fool some of the people all of the time. These people are the problem, as they make themselves tools for psychopaths."


“Psychopaths [make] the world go around...society [is] an expression of that particular sort of madness...I've always believed society to be a fundamentally rational thing, but what if it isn't? What if it is built on insanity?”
― Jon Ronson, The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry

“It strikes me profoundly that the world is more often than not a bad and cruel place.”
― Bret Easton Ellis, American Psycho

“A.I. is the perfect psychopath.”
― R.A. Delmonico


It is quite reasonable to seek answers to these unknown questions, but what you have written here says loud and clear that are placing yourself psychologically at odds with the scientific community AV. Why?
Untrue - I simply post alternative views for interest and consideration
- not because they have been proven true - And feel mainstream conventional
views and science, especially now, should show better evidence for their actions,
especially since their actions are far from solving the Covid 19 problem.
And always the skeptic, must consider if they are not in fact making it worse???



“People with a psychological need to believe in marvels are no more prejudiced and gullible than people with a psychological need not to believe in marvels.”
― Charles Fort


"The Earth is a farm. We are someone else's property."
- Charles Fort
 
Last edited:

AlienView

"Stargate Explorer"
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
290
Reaction score
213
Points
44
Location
Cyberspace
OK conspiracy lovers {and haters}, take this video apart - This woman
scientist was banned on YouTube and other social media. I'm not sure this interview with Dr. Mercola, a popular medical guru who often exposes problems in mainstream medicines views, is the same video.
Dr. Mercola does make valid interesting points on many health issues.
- Personally I'm skeptical, see what you think.

NOTE: It is about an hour and a half long.

STORY AT-A-GLANCE
  • Cellular and molecular biologist Judy Mikovits, Ph.D. believes COVID-19 — the disease — is not caused by SARS-CoV-2 alone, but rather that it’s the result of a combination of SARS-CoV-2 and XMRVs (human gammaretroviruses)
  • SARS-CoV-2 also appears to have been manipulated to include components of HIV that destroys immune function along with XMRVs
  • Those already infected with XMRVs may end up getting serious COVID-19 infection and/or die from the disease. Mikovits’s research suggests more than 30 million Americans carry XMRVs and other gammaretroviruses in their bodies from contaminated vaccines and blood supply
  • Mikovits believes 40 years of data suggest Type 1 interferon at very low dose would be an ideal treatment for COVID-19
  • RT-PCR (reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction) testing, currently used to diagnose active infection by detecting the presence of SARS-CoV-2 genetic material, overestimates infection rates. For an accurate account of COVID-19 prevalence, we need to test for antibodies


See it here:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/.../is-the-new-coronavirus-created-in-a-lab.aspx

Personally I'm skeptical of this video and what it implies, that there are some very bad players - Almost like the bad guys from a 'Dr. Who' episode. Also in the video she gives a cure, interferon.



"I cannot say that truth is stranger than fiction, because I have never had
acquaintance with either."
- Charles Fort, Wild Talents
 
Last edited:

Cochise

Never give up, never surrender
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
5,896
Reaction score
6,953
Points
284
SARS-CoV-2 also appears to have been manipulated to include components of HIV that destroys immune function along with XMRVs
I think I mentioned previously that I was told that by a colleague back in March (pre-lockdown).
 

AlienView

"Stargate Explorer"
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
290
Reaction score
213
Points
44
Location
Cyberspace
AlienView said:
SARS-CoV-2 also appears to have been manipulated to include components of HIV that destroys immune function along with XMRVs

I think I mentioned previously that I was told that by a colleague back in March (pre-lockdown).
So then what are we looking at? - Certainly not a natural phenomena; Or is it an
accidentally escaped experiment from Wuhan labs? - And I still question if
it can not be deliberate?

A news clip I heard earlier said economically China will suffer the least from the
pandemic - Still I would not even try to pin it on the Chinese government or
military - But China, like anywhere else in the World probably still has its share
of 'mad scientists'.

I still keep thinking, of course hypothetically, for the appearance of "The Doctor",
the fictional alien 'time lord' from 'Doctor Who' who for maybe 50 years and many incarnations. appears when some 'alien' threat is facing the world, sizes the situation up and comes up with the solution - How to neutralize the threat, usually
generated by a malignant alien presence {say like the 'novel Coronavirus"}

Yes, it's definitely time for 'The Doctor' to do his thing and save the World
- this time for real!



“I am and always will be the optimist, the hoper of far-flung hopes and the dreamer of improblable dreams.”
― Matt Smith {Matthew Robert Smith is an English actor. He is best known for his roles as the eleventh incarnation of the Doctor in the BBC series Doctor Who........}

“The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes—very rarely—impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.”
― Steven Moffat {famous writer and producer of Dr. Who}
 
Top