The COVID-19 (Wuhan Coronavirus) Outbreak: Conspiracy Theories & Claims

Ogdred Weary

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Their assassins aren't up to the same skill levels as they once were.
Back in the cold war era, they definitely got good at making it look like an accident.
Or perhaps it's that they simply don't care, they know no one believes that these were accidents.
 

AlienView

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Why Do Russia’s Doctors Keep Falling?
Three Russian medical workers have fallen out of windows, two of them fatally, under mysterious circumstances in the past two weeks. Alexander Shulepov, a paramedic from the city of Voronezh, is in critical condition after falling out of a second-story window at a hospital where he was being treated for COVID-19 last Saturday. Shulepov had earlier posted a video online along with a colleague in which he complained of being forced to work even after testing positive for the virus. The colleague had earlier been questioned by police for allegedly spreading fake news after complaining publicly about PPE shortages.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ndows-lukashenko-coronavirus-el-salvador.html

Conspiracy? - I'm always ready to entertain the conspiracy view.

But, to be fair, everyone wants to pin conspiracies on Russia
- Yes, they may be true.

Still you have to consider drinking too much Vodka while using vodka as a disinfectant while there were shortages of disinfectant !

Seriously though, would Russia engage in this type of behavior {throwing people out of windows} at this time
under the current circumstances? Or, just an independent supervisor who is fed-up
and decided to get rid of trouble makers?
 

Cochise

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...es-may-have-cost-nobel-prize-winner-believes/

Lockdown saved no lives and may have cost them, Nobel Prize winner believes
Professor Michael Levitt of Stanford University predicts that the UK will be rid of Covid-19 within weeks

I post these links in Conspiracy, I agree with what others have said that it will be a year or two down the line before we know who is right. But I think it is worthwhile reminding ourselves that the experts do not all agree. Which in turn should cause us to have some sympathy for those who had to decide between them
 

Analogue Boy

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If an assassin is close enough to do a wrist test they're close enough to use a variety of methods.
The US have the laser ‘thermometer’ right here.

1590341749827.png


Xi’s going to have to stand a little further back.
 

Naughty_Felid

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...es-may-have-cost-nobel-prize-winner-believes/

Lockdown saved no lives and may have cost them, Nobel Prize winner believes
Professor Michael Levitt of Stanford University predicts that the UK will be rid of Covid-19 within weeks

I post these links in Conspiracy, I agree with what others have said that it will be a year or two down the line before we know who is right. But I think it is worthwhile reminding ourselves that the experts do not all agree. Which in turn should cause us to have some sympathy for those who had to decide between them
He's a biologist - it's not his area of specialty.
 

Cochise

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He's a biologist - it's not his area of specialty.
Well, he is clearly a mathematician as well, and the forecasts are mathematical equations. As I have mentioned before, I was trained as a statistician. Statistics are key here, and the maths are the same if you are looking at covid mortality or mean time between failure of electrical components - except the latter is easier because there are fewer unknowns.,
 

Mythopoeika

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He's a biologist - it's not his area of specialty.
Neil Ferguson (epidemiologist) has a Phd in Theoretical Physics.
Michael Levitt has a PhD in Computational Biology.

So it's clearly not Ferguson's area of speciality. Why are we listening to him?
 

Naughty_Felid

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Neil Ferguson (epidemiologist) has a Phd in Theoretical Physics.
Michael Levitt has a PhD in Computational Biology.

So it's clearly not Ferguson's area of speciality. Why are we listening to him?
what are you on about? He was part of a team that was pretty much all over the place - but had to advise the government. It has been said he wasn't sole advisor.

Trying to blame him when there is a fucking disaster of a government is pointless.

But random ancient Nobel Prize winners sitting at home going "I wouldn't have done it like that" is rubbish as well.
 

Cochise

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what are you on about? He was part of a team that was pretty much all over the place - but had to advise the government. It has been said he wasn't sole advisor.

Trying to blame him when there is a fucking disaster of a government is pointless.

But random ancient Nobel Prize winners sitting at home going "I wouldn't have done it like that" is rubbish as well.
Except he claims - I don't know the truth - that he advised Ferguson early on that his numbers were nonsense. Look here, I don't want people to die. But you have to put that aspect on hold if you are trying to understand the numbers.

Suppose you had been PM? Whose advice would you have taken?

And I'm not standing up for Boris - I think he has been a disaster.
 

Mythopoeika

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what are you on about? He was part of a team that was pretty much all over the place - but had to advise the government. It has been said he wasn't sole advisor.
Yes, I know. But they were his models.

Trying to blame him when there is a fucking disaster of a government is pointless.
Was I, with that post? No need to be so angry all the time.

But random ancient Nobel Prize winners sitting at home going "I wouldn't have done it like that" is rubbish as well.
http://med.stanford.edu/levitt.html
Since 28 January 2020, Levitt, his Stanford group and an international team of volunteers have worked tirelessly on data analysis of COVID-19.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Except he claims - I don't know the truth - that he advised Ferguson early on that his numbers were nonsense. Look here, I don't want people to die. But you have to put that aspect on hold if you are trying to understand the numbers.

Suppose you had been PM? Whose advice would you have taken?

And I'm not standing up for Boris - I think he has been a disaster.
I don't care. Double shifts, scared staff, scared public - I just need a break. I do wish you lot undermining all this would just not post when you are sat at home doing f all.
 
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Cochise

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I don't care. Double shifts, scared staff, scared public - I just need a break. I do wish you lot undermining all this would just not post when you are sat at home doing f all.
You know what? Maybe all this - and the stress is clearly is putting on you - is unnecessary.

I'm not inhuman, chap. You clearly are suffering and really, we are not 'undermining' because there is no clear correct answer.
 

AlienView

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Well, he is clearly a mathematician as well, and the forecasts are mathematical equations. As I have mentioned before, I was trained as a statistician. Statistics are key here, and the maths are the same if you are looking at covid mortality or mean time between failure of electrical components - except the latter is easier because there are fewer unknowns.,
The big monkey wrench confounding the way the pandemic has played out
in a word is 'stealth'. - The way the virus may be completely hidden in not only a
few, but in many people, creating miscalculations of how to respond.

Again, this is one reason some, including me, see this as a possible terrorist attack
- You might say it is just coincidence that it is the perfect bio-weapon.
Yes, you might be right - But what if you're wrong?

What if the World is now under a terrorist attack by individuals determined
to end it. ???

We already know that type of terrorist {end the World} does exist
- And if they have gotten away with this type of stealth attack
- They will attack again.
 

Trevp666

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What if the World is now under a terrorist attack by individuals determined
to end it. ???
My wonder with that approach (If I were the one organising the 'end') is what would be to gain from it?
What is the point of bringing about 'the end of the world'?
Would I want to exist after the 'end' had come about?
What would be left afterwards to 'enjoy'?
Would it be a post-apocalyptic wasteland, roamed by whatever remnants of human life were left, scavenging, 'mad max' styli?
Would it be an idyllic 'hippies and flowers' existence where it was a sunshine and friendliness?
And there would still be (assuming people are left) people taking charge of running things, surely?
Would that be these 'end of the world' types?
And which scenario is it that would be worth taking charge of?
 

Ringo

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Again, this is one reason some, including me, see this as a possible terrorist attack
- You might say it is just coincidence that it is the perfect bio-weapon.
Yes, you might be right - But what if you're wrong?

What if the World is now under a terrorist attack by individuals determined
to end it. ???
Well then they should have come up with something more dangerous, fast acting and deadly than a Corona virus which is only killing off a tiny percentage of the elderly and the medically compromised. It's leaving all the fighting fit people in place.

Perspective is what is needed.

Don't get comsumed by the news and stories of doom and gloom. There have been, in total, all around the world, 350,000 deaths.

350,000 people from a population of 8 billion! That's 0.0004% of the population. I think they'd better get a hurry on if they want to wipe us all out. More people have been born in the last 3 months (about 30 million!!) than have been wiped out so they're running at a huge defecit.
 

maximus otter

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...a Corona virus which is only killing off a tiny percentage of the elderly and the medically compromised. It's leaving all the fighting fit people in place.

Perspective is what is needed.

Don't get comsumed by the news and stories of doom and gloom. There have been, in total, all around the world, 350,000 deaths.

350,000 people from a population of 8 billion! That's 0.0004% of the population. I think they'd better get a hurry on if they want to wipe us all out. More people have been born in the last 3 months (about 30 million!!) than have been wiped out so they're running at a huge defecit.
^^^^^^^^^

This, 1,000%

maximus otter
 

blessmycottonsocks

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...es-may-have-cost-nobel-prize-winner-believes/

Lockdown saved no lives and may have cost them, Nobel Prize winner believes
Professor Michael Levitt of Stanford University predicts that the UK will be rid of Covid-19 within weeks

I post these links in Conspiracy, I agree with what others have said that it will be a year or two down the line before we know who is right. But I think it is worthwhile reminding ourselves that the experts do not all agree. Which in turn should cause us to have some sympathy for those who had to decide between them
If, with hindsight, the draconian lockdown destroyed people's livelihoods, pension funds, mental and physical well-being for no appreciable benefit, that would just be too horrible for words.

But this isn't the time to discuss such things.
Wait until Covid19 has run its course and valid data from all affected countries can be assessed.
Only then will any Covid19 postmortem have any real meaning.
 

AlienView

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My wonder with that approach (If I were the one organising the 'end') is what would be to gain from it?
What is the point of bringing about 'the end of the world'?
Would I want to exist after the 'end' had come about?
What would be left afterwards to 'enjoy'?
Would it be a post-apocalyptic wasteland, roamed by whatever remnants of human life were left, scavenging, 'mad max' styli?
Would it be an idyllic 'hippies and flowers' existence where it was a sunshine and friendliness?
And there would still be (assuming people are left) people taking charge of running things, surely?
Would that be these 'end of the world' types?
And which scenario is it that would be worth taking charge of?
"Trends in terrorism over the past three decades, however, have contradicted the conventional thinking that terrorists are averse to using WMD. It has become increasingly evident that the assumption does not apply to religious terrorist groups or millenarian cults (see Glossary). Indeed, since at least the early 1970s analysts, including (somewhat contradictorily) Jenkins, have predicted that the first groups to employ a weapon of mass destruction would be religious sects with a millenarian, messianic, or apocalyptic mindset. ....."
https://fas.org/irp/threat/frd.html

An article I read a few years ago stated that some terrorists want to end the World
in the religious belief that Mohammed will return at the end - Similar to the
Christian belief in the return of Jesus at the end - And yes there are Christian
terrorists out there as well.
 

AlienView

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Well then they should have come up with something more dangerous, fast acting and deadly than a Corona virus which is only killing off a tiny percentage of the elderly and the medically compromised. It's leaving all the fighting fit people in place.

Perspective is what is needed.

Don't get comsumed by the news and stories of doom and gloom. There have been, in total, all around the world, 350,000 deaths.

350,000 people from a population of 8 billion! That's 0.0004% of the population. I think they'd better get a hurry on if they want to wipe us all out. More people have been born in the last 3 months (about 30 million!!) than have been wiped out so they're running at a huge defecit.
Yes, you might think so BUT it would have been much easier to isolate
the disease, like with Eboli, when it is manifest and clearly visible.

By STEALTH I meant that this attack {if it was indeed and attack}
was not clear right from the beginning.
- Are you sure it began in Wuhan China, or was it first discovered in Wuhan
China, which is understandable because they have that bio lab there and would
always be checking for leaks?

Are you really sure it didn't begin somewhere else like Italy?

As far as it not being that lethal - That is part of the real diabolic nature of it.
Boris Johnson and Donald Trump were both prone to dismiss it at first like a bad
flu season and then let it play out - Until..........

They began to realize how dangerous it really is - WE STILL DON'T KNOW HOW
DANGEROUS IT WILL BE IN THE LONG RUN.'

Sure maybe we'll get lucky and mickey mouse face-masks will contain it
- But don't bet on it. The The Spanish Flu in 1917-18 started to dissipate in the
spring and then apparently mutated in the fall with a much more lethal version
that killed almost everybody who got it and killed quite rapidly, ultimately killing
an estimated 50 million people worldwide.

Without vaccines I'm not sure how they stopped that one?
- We might not be so lucky this time
- And if it is a bio-engineered virus it may be designed to mutate and stay
resistant to vaccines.

Now I don't want to scare anyone needlessly so take my worse case scenario
with a grain of salt - but don't dismiss it completely.

As the famous baseball player Yogi Berra once said:
"It ain't over till its over"
 
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Trevp666

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An article I read a few years ago stated that some terrorists want to end the World
in the religious belief that Mohammed will return at the end - Similar to the
Christian belief in the return of Jesus at the end - And yes there are Christian
terrorists out there as well.
Quite likely.
Sound's a bit 'heavens gate' though, dunnit.

If these people had their logic analysed they'd be unlikely to realise the foolishness of those actions anyway.
I mean, if you don't like your house or the people living in it, you blow it up with yourself inside with the belief that you'll be either protected from those actions by the 'god' that you follow, or ascend to whatever is your version of heaven.
So you are either left with a ruined house to live in, or you're dead anyway.
Yeah.... great.
 

Ringo

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Yes, you might think so BUT it would have been much easier to isolate
the disease, like with Eboli, when it is manifest and clearly visible.

By STEALTH I meant that this attack {if it was indeed and attack}
was not clear right from the beginning.
- Are you sure it began in Wuhan China, or was it first discovered in Wuhan
China, which is understandable because they have that bio lab there and would
always be checking for leaks?

Are you really sure it didn't begin somewhere else like Italy?

As far as it not being that lethal - That is part of the real diabolic nature of it.
Boris Johnson and Donald Trump were both prone to dismiss it at first like a bad
flu season and then let it play out - Until..........

They began to realize how dangerous it really is - WE STILL DON'T KNOW HOW
DANGEROUS IT WILL BE IN THE LONG RUN.'

Sure maybe we'll get lucky and mickey mouse face-masks will contain it
- But don't bet on it. The The Spanish Flu in 1917-18 started to dissipate in the
spring and then apparently mutated in the fall with a much more lethal version
that killed almost everybody who got it and killed quite rapidly, ultimately killing
an estimated 50 million people worldwide.

Without vaccines I'm not sure how they stopped that one?
- We might not be so lucky this time
- And if it is a bio-engineered virus it may be designed to mutate and stay
resistant to vaccines.

Now I don't want to scare anyone needlessly so take my worse case scenario
with a grain of salt - but don't dismiss it completely.

As the famous baseball player Yogi Berra once said:
"It ain't over till its over"
Oh dear.

Your conspiracy theory ignores facts and scientific knowledge and so it falls at the first hurdle. Conspiracy doesn't mean "wild conjecture and fantasy".

There have been numerous instances of diseases hopping from one species to another. This is just another one of them.
It isn't very deadly - it only knocks off those who wouldn't shake off a bad flu or any other infection. These people are normally naturally protected (for example from the flu) because others around them (you and me) act like fire breaks for the wave of infection or because we have a vaccine.
It may not have originated in Wuhan but that is where it was noticed forst and so that was given as the point of origin. It may well have been on any continent. But based on the virus is seems to have come from a bat to something else and then to us. It hasn't been engineered it has been transferred.

It has already mutated 6 or 7 times. That's what corona viruses do naturally. Hence the seasonal flu jab being only a best guess at what is coming this year.

When this has been round for a while, it will have killed off all the old and weak ones and then it'll settle down to being just another corona virus (like the common cold). It will (just like the common cold or flu) lead to complications in some leading to pneumonia and death (for the old and frail).

I agree that we don't know how many will die or how many well get sick but it will calm down and settle down to just being another virus in the world.

Even if it killed as many as The Spanish Flu (50 million) then it will still only be 0.6% of the worlds population. And many more than that will have been born while those 50 million are dying.

50 million people die every year on this planet but 130 million are born. So even if we have 50 million dying on top of the normal 50 million, were still 30 million up each year. So I think we'll be alright.
 

kamalktk

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Their assassins aren't up to the same skill levels as they once were.
Back in the cold war era, they definitely got good at making it look like an accident.
You don't make it look random when you want to send a message while maintaining deniability.
 

Yithian

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Oh dear.

Your conspiracy theory ignores facts and scientific knowledge and so it falls at the first hurdle. Conspiracy doesn't mean "wild conjecture and fantasy".
Quite.

*Deletes 90% of the forum's conspiracy section*
 

Cochise

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If, with hindsight, the draconian lockdown destroyed people's livelihoods, pension funds, mental and physical well-being for no appreciable benefit, that would just be too horrible for words.

But this isn't the time to discuss such things.
Wait until Covid19 has run its course and valid data from all affected countries can be assessed.
Only then will any Covid19 postmortem have any real meaning.
On the contrary, I think it is very important we understand these issues as soon as possible. Because if there is a 'next wave' next winter as some are predicting, we cannot do this again - the government simply will not have the money to tide us over.

This is in fact quite different to a war. In a war demand overall increases, while there may be shortages of certain items. We have a collapse of both demand and supply, something that has never happened in the industrial world. (which only started about 300 years ago)

Many people will be impoverished. Firms will go broke. People will die due to delayed treatment from non-covid diseases. And any small entrepreneur would be crazy to set up a business in this environment. Even supplying PPE, although maybe Bane masks are a growth opportunity.

Permanent damage is being done to children's education, and possibly their mental health. Mental health of older people is also going to be a problem.

How much damage are we prepared to take to transfer a few deaths from one column to another?

And when there is an election in four years time don't tell me you'll vote for a government that caused all this. You will all blame them for it, even though many of their mis-steps have been forced on them by hysterical reactions world wide.

Edit - some may question my use of the word 'few'. Well, here are some deaths in actual wars:

WW1 - 40 million (includes Spanish Flu deaths that were at least partly caused by troop movements)
WW2 - 85 million
Sino-Japanese war - 25 million.
Russian civil war - 9 million.

Even a relatively minor and futile fracas in Vietnam killed 4 million.

The so-called 'war on terror' which we exported to the middle east cost a million. And that was, incredibly, a Labour government.

To date Covid has killed 347,583 - many of whom had co-morbities that would have sadly taken them soon anyway.

And importantly, the deaths in war are in a high proportion young males, not senile old dodderers like me that have probably a decade left at best.
 
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Ogdred Weary

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Wild fantasy not being the the same thing as reality is exactly what the Illuminati/Elders of Zion/Lizard People want you to believe.
 

AlienView

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Wild fantasy not being the the same thing as reality is exactly what the Illuminati/Elders of Zion/Lizard People want you to believe.
Really??? - How about Charles Fort, 'supposedly' who this forum is based upon,

"Charles Fort (1874-1932) fancied himself a true skeptic, one who opposes all forms of dogmatism, believes nothing, and does not take a position on anything. He
Charles Fort, ca. 1920
claimed to be an "intermediatist," one who believes nothing is real and nothing is unreal, that "all phenomena are approximations one way or the other between realness and unrealness." Actually, he was an anti-dogmatist who collected weird and bizarre stories........"

"
Fort did not seem particularly interested in making any sense out of his collection of weird stories. He seemed particularly uninterested in scientific testing, yet some of his devotees consider him to be the founding father of modern paranormal studies. His main interest in scientific hypotheses was to criticize and ridicule the very process of theorizing. His real purpose seems to have been to embarrass scientists by collecting stories on "the borderland between fact and fantasy" which science could not explain or explain away. Since he did not generally concern himself with the reliability or accuracy of his data, this borderland also blurs the distinction between open-mindedness and gullibility.

Fort was skeptical about scientific explanations because scientists sometimes argue "according to their own beliefs rather than the rules of evidence" and they suppress or ignore inconvenient data.........."
http://skepdic.com/fortean.html


And it seems to me, an admitted 'conspiracy theorist' - that this virus Covid 19,
was so mishandled, right from the beginning of its appearance,
that every and any conspiracy, as to its origin and progress, must be considered,
- even if only to allow for a remote possibility that an outside of the box
theory may lead to more information that may lead to a cure, or way to stop its
spread.

And say it was a 'natural occurrence' originally - Don't you think it is possible that
certain terrorist groups may have figured out a way to spread it faster???
- Remember we are talking about the suicide bomber mentality,
they don't care if they die with it !!!
 

AnonyJoolz

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Having a nice cup of tea and a sit-down.
....An article I read a few years ago stated that some terrorists want to end the World
in the religious belief that Mohammed will return at the end - Similar to the
Christian belief in the return of Jesus at the end - And yes there are Christian
terrorists out there as well.
Eschatology in the Islamic traditions has a long and complex presentation, almost as long and complex as various Christian traditions.

Muhammad isn't the one returning, but Isa (Jesus) after the 'Mahdi' is revealed.

I suggest some reading, a good starter is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_eschatology

"the hadith contains several events, happening before the Day of Judgment, which are described as several minor signs and twelve major signs. During this period, terrible corruption and chaos would rule the earth, caused by the Masih ad-Dajjal (the Antichrist in Islam), then Isa (Jesus) will appear, defeating the Dajjal and establish a period of peace, liberating the world from cruelty. These events will be followed by a time of serenity when people live according to religious values."

The various concepts follow fairly parallel to Christian end-of-days concepts, including resurrection, day of divine judgement and the trumpets of God et al.
 

EnolaGaia

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This Jerusalem Post news article describes some of the finding from an Oxford survey of 2,500 Britons concerning COVID-related conspiracy theories / suspicions.
One in five English people believe COVID is a Jewish conspiracy - survey

One in five English people believe that Jews created COVID-19 to collapse the economy for financial gain, a newly-released study by a team of researchers at the University of Oxford has revealed.

The finding came as part of a wider survey in attitudes toward the virus and the measures taken to prevent its spread, which found that there was a strong undercurrent of mistrust over official advice on the virus within the public. ...

The Oxford Coronavirus Explanations, Attitudes, and Narratives Survey (OCEANS), was published in the journal Psychological Medicine on Friday. It surveyed 2,500 adults who were representative of the English population according to age, gender, region and income, on their attitudes toward the government narrative on coronavirus and related conspiracy theories between May 4 and May 11. ...

Presented with the statement “Jews have created the virus to collapse the economy for financial gain,” 5.3% of the interviewees “agreed a little,” 6.8% “agreed moderately,” 4.6% “agreed a lot,” and 2.4% “agreed completely,” while some 80.8% did not agree with it at all.

Similar figures were recorded for conspiracy theories involving other groups: while 80.1% of respondents did not agree with the statement “Muslims are spreading the virus as an attack on Western values,” 19.9% did to some extent, including 2.4% who agreed completely.

More than a quarter of respondents thought that “celebrities are being paid to say that they have coronavirus,” and that politicians, for example the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, “have faked having coronavirus.” Nearly half (45.4%) believed to some extent that “coronavirus is a bio-weapon developed by China to destroy the West.” ...
FULL STORY: https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Anti...ve-COVID-is-a-Jewish-conspiracy-survey-629187
 

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Here's the Oxford University news release about the COVID conspiracy survey research cited above ...
Conspiracy beliefs reduce the following of government coronavirus guidance

A new study from the University of Oxford shows that people who hold coronavirus conspiracy beliefs are less likely to comply with social distancing guidelines or take-up future vaccines.

The research, led by clinical psychologists at the University of Oxford and published today in the journal Psychological Medicine, indicates that a disconcertingly high number of adults in England do not agree with the scientific and governmental consensus on the coronavirus pandemic. The findings indicated that:

60% of adults believe to some extent that the government is misleading the public about the cause of the virus

40% believe to some extent the spread of the virus is a deliberate attempt by powerful people to gain control

20% believe to some extent that the virus is a hoax

From 4 to 11 May 2020, 2,500 adults, representative of the English population for age, gender, region, and income, took part in the Oxford Coronavirus Explanations, Attitudes, and Narratives Survey (OCEANS). Results indicate that half of the nation is excessively mistrustful and that this reduces the following of government coronavirus guidance. ...
FULL STORY:
http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-05-22...ces-following-government-coronavirus-guidance
 
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