The COVID-19 (Wuhan Coronavirus) Outbreak: Conspiracy Theories & Claims

Stormkhan

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Sorry, Myth, but I edited my post while you responded to mine. I think we're both in agreement on general points.
 

Stormkhan

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No. However, we do need to exercise caution. Some vaccines may be safer than others, some are more effective than others, some are more expensive, etc.
Also, the ideal would be a vaccine that didn't need to be repeatedly topped up.
Our government has bought vastly more doses than it might need and it has shopped around among the various competing vaccines that are being developed. Quite rightly so, because nobody knows which vaccine will be the 'magic bullet'.
1) This desperate drive to find a vaccine worries me because of the potential for corners to be cut.
2) It may be 'ideal' for a one-shot vaccine but from what we're told of this viruses behaviour, it's unlikely. It's far nastier than first assumed and each day experts are discovering new stuff about it.
3) Our government is currently really good at spending money it hasn't got. It spends on publicity rather than reality. It promises then relies on others to make those promises come true. It's spread it's buying power not on proven or even potentially effective products but anyone who has given them a neat-sounding prospectus. In effect, they've paid for a vaccine that doesn't exist and, if it does, may not actually work. All in the name of "We're doing all we can! And, when the vaccine is reality, we're first in the queue."

There may be a 'magic bullet' vaccine but spending money on any just on the off-chance it might be the one doesn't sound sensible.
 

hunck

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Good point. However ...
Who earns the money from annual influenza vaccines? Do they work? And just because you (as a profit-making vaccine production firm) earn money from it, should the vaccine not be taken?
Profiteering is a plausible outcome but not a reason for denial.
Who's to say where the line is between making a profit & profiteering? If there's no profit it doesn't happen in the first place.

Re the annual influenza virus, I'm assuming the government place an order for so many million shots before winter every year. Profit for that must go mainly to the drug company. The cost per shot I have no idea. Do they work? - It's claimed they reduce your likelihood of getting flu by various percentages. 60% - 40% is mentioned but that's in the younger/healthier age range. The older you are the less effective it is. It's claimed to reduce hospitalisation for flu & pneumonia by various percentages for older people. So whilst it costs us as taxpayers for vaccinations, if it reduces the need for hospital treatment plus saves some lives it's the cheaper option.
 

maximus otter

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It's claimed they reduce your likelihood of getting flu by various percentages. 60% - 40% is mentioned...if it reduces the need for hospital treatment plus saves some lives it's the cheaper option.
The US CDC supports the 40% - 60% estimate.

Even that guesstimate, however, depends on two factors:

a) If you opted for the jab, would you have caught the flu that year or not?

b) If you had the jab, yet caught flu despite it, would the health authorities become aware of the failure?

- So the stats are pre-loaded to make the vaccine sound more effective than it is.

maximus otter
 

hunck

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The US CDC supports the 40% - 60% estimate.

Even that guesstimate, however, depends on two factors:

a) If you opted for the jab, would you have caught the flu that year or not?

b) If you had the jab, yet caught flu despite it, would the health authorities become aware of the failure?

- So the stats are pre-loaded to make the vaccine sound more effective than it is.

maximus otter
Yes, annual flu vaccine effectiveness is hard to nail down. Most sites providing information readily admit this.

The only way to determine it would be to not vaccinate at all for several years & assess the difference in death/hospitalisation figures for various age ranges over a period.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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"This desperate drive to find a vaccine worries me because of the potential for corners to be cut. "

Well exactly.

just imagine if the wonder cure turned out to be another thalidomide or that swine flu jab that caused narcolepsy.
 

GNC

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I hope people on here aren't suggesting the scientists work for free to solve this crisis, because that really is a recipe for (more) disaster. If they get a cure, they deserve all the income they get.
 

Xanatic*

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AstraZeneca are working on a vaccine which they have agreed to sell without profit. Not sure what motivated that.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Huge demonstration in Berlin yesterday.
Seemed to be an eclectic mixture of anti-vaxxers, Coronavirus deniers, class war anarchists, hard right, hard left and some regular citizens.
The common theme though is a hefty dose of Coronavirus scepticism and not a mask in sight!

Over 300 arrests made when a faction of several hundred attempted to storm the Reichstag parliament building.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53959552
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Huge demonstration in Berlin yesterday.
Seemed to be an eclectic mixture of anti-vaxxers, Coronavirus deniers, class war anarchists, hard right, hard left and some regular citizens.
The common theme though is a hefty dose of Coronavirus scepticism and not a mask in sight!

Over 300 arrests made when a faction of several hundred attempted to storm the Reichstag parliament building.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53959552
There was a smaller (and thankfully more peaceful) demonstration in London:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...spiracy-theorists-anti-vaxxers-protest-london

I see that guest speakers amidst the Coronavirus sceptics were Piers Corbyn and our old friend David Icke!
 

gordonrutter

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Mythopoeika

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Someone on Facebook posted that the media weren’t covering this. And to prove their point they posted an article from the Daily Mail about the demonstration. Erm...
Proof right there that the Daily Mail isn't part of the media!
 

GNC

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Someone on Facebook posted that the media weren’t covering this. And to prove their point they posted an article from the Daily Mail about the demonstration. Erm...
That's the way the CT narrative goes now. "The media won't report this!" Except they do, which in a weird way legitimises their fantasies and makes them spread. I can see why the mainstream media wouldn't want to report CTs for that reason, but that doesn't mean they don't report on them, at all.
 

Mythopoeika

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That's the way the CT narrative goes now. "The media won't report this!" Except they do, which in a weird way legitimises their fantasies and makes them spread. I can see why the mainstream media wouldn't want to report CTs for that reason, but that doesn't mean they don't report on them, at all.
They do eventually report on things if shamed into doing it by the non-mainstream media.
 

GNC

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They do eventually report on things if shamed into doing it by the non-mainstream media.
"Shame" is a very loaded word. It suggests grudges, grievances, entitlement, and that's not a good place to be in your mind, or anyone else's.
 

Mythopoeika

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"Shame" is a very loaded word. It suggests grudges, grievances, entitlement, and that's not a good place to be in your mind, or anyone else's.
Word trickery aside, what I said still stands. :)
 

GNC

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Word trickery aside, what I said still stands. :)
Does it? It's a word that will be used by those conspiracy-believing maniacs who went on marches yesterday to justify their self-centred fantasies, the "What about meeeeee?!" brigade who aren't interested in sympathy or reason with anyone but their own satisfaction, regardless of the peril they will put others in as well. I know it's become the common viewpoint online, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Does it? It's a word that will be used by those conspiracy-believing maniacs who went on marches yesterday to justify their self-centred fantasies, the "What about meeeeee?!" brigade who aren't interested in sympathy or reason with anyone but their own satisfaction, regardless of the peril they will put others in as well. I know it's become the common viewpoint online, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.
Here's a good example of the anti-civil "what about meeee?" morons:

Some 3,000 attended an illegal rave in South Wales, with music so loud at 03:00 yesterday morning, that people 14 miles away couldn't sleep.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53964322
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I find this truly remarkable.
Just Google "anti-lockdown rally Trafalgar square" images and look at the attendees and the banners being carried.
An estimated 10,000 people of all creeds, colours, political persuasions and ages turned up to listen to and applaud an ageing Marxist's conspiracy theories.
Just like the far larger Berlin demonstration, there was no hint of social distancing and not a mask to be seen (except for the fairly common V for Vendetta Guy Fawkes mask).
Whilst most of us here dismiss the Corbyn/Icke rhetoric as dangerous and non-factual nonsense, the numbers of people who do subscribe to their point of view do seem to be on the increase. And, worryingly, it appears to appeal to and cut across a wide spectrum of political views.
 
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Jonfairway

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"honey I'm home" ben away for ages, guess I missed a lot :) There is a conspiracy here ! The origins of the Virus.. The apparent blocking of suggestions its been genetically engineered, and the reasons to even create a hybrid Sars virus that can target any Mammals ?
 

Swifty

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Here's a good example of the anti-civil "what about meeee?" morons:

Some 3,000 attended an illegal rave in South Wales, with music so loud at 03:00 yesterday morning, that people 14 miles away couldn't sleep.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53964322
I'm clearly getting old, someone I used to sometimes go to these types of raves with posted about this exact same party on facebook yesterday like it was a good thing? .. I replied to him with "This is 2020, not 1992 .. they're morons." Who the f**k goes raving at the moment?.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I'm clearly getting old, someone I used to sometimes go to these types of raves with posted about this exact same party on facebook yesterday like it was a good thing? .. I replied to him with "This is 2020, not 1992 .. they're morons." Who the f**k goes raving at the moment?.
I guess, rather like the Covid Hoax rally, the appeal is that you're sticking two fingers up at authority and being a bit of a renegade.
The "Jail Boris", "New normal = new fascism" and "bollocks to Covid" themes hint at the anti-establishment Zeitgeist.
 

Swifty

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I guess, rather like the Covid Hoax rally, the appeal is that you're sticking two fingers up at authority and being a bit of a renegade.
The "Jail Boris", "New normal = new fascism" and "bollocks to Covid" themes hint at the anti-establishment Zeitgeist.
That's my interpretation of this as well.
 
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ramonmercado

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I find this truly remarkable.
Just Google "anti-lockdown rally Trafalgar square" images and look at the attendees and the banners being carried.
An estimated 10,000 people of all creeds, colours, political persuasions and ages turned up to listen to and applaud an ageing Marxist's conspiracy theories.
Just like the far larger Berlin demonstration, there was no hint of social distancing and not a mask to be seen (except for the fairly common V for Vendetta Guy Fawkes mask).
Whilst most of us here dismiss the Corbyn/Icke rhetoric as dangerous and non-factual nonsense, the numbers of people who do subscribe to their point of view do seem to be on the increase. And, worryingly, it appears to appeal to and cut across a wide spectrum of political views.
That's the point - from far right to far left with every hue in between there are covid skeptics. How do you sell the covid is deadly message? Many different approaches needed?

Should Piers have been fined so much? A senior government adviser who broke regulations got off scot free.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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That's the point - from far right to far left with every hue in between there are covid skeptics. How do you sell the covid is deadly message? Many different approaches needed?

Should Piers have been fined so much? A senior government adviser who broke regulations got off scot free.
The fine is for organising a public gathering in excess of 30 people.
The rave organisers got the same £10,000 fine as Corbyn and also had their expensive sound and light system confiscated.
 

Lb8535

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The fine is for organising a public gathering in excess of 30 people.
The rave organisers got the same £10,000 fine as Corbyn and also had their expensive sound and light system confiscated.
Oh dear, they certainly rented that and now have no cash to make good to the small vendor.
 
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