• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

The Cultish World Of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP)

A

Anonymous

Guest
I have a friend who is a 'practicitioner' in the strange world of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP). I cannot pretend to fully understand the ideas behind it, but does anyone have any idea whether or not this is considered a cult?

Similarly, my associate is a master in the field of 'Grovian Metaphor Therapy' which seeks to address individuals' issues via the application of 'clean language' and the medium of the metaphor as a means of expression. Once again - is this listed as a cult? Seems very cult like to me and these people make very broad claims re. solving issues as wide ranging as phobias through to supressed memories of child abuse. Interestingly enough, many who access this therapy end up being 'practictioners'.

Any comments?

see this web site for more information - it's all a bit postmodern and contains lots of psuedo-science, I'm afraid.

http://www.cleanlanguage.co.uk/

http://www.trainingattention.co.uk/


And what kind of hedge is that?
 
Quackery and pseudoscience, certainly, but I don't know if I could call it a cult. There doesn't seem to be a big religious element involved, unless you maybe count the placebo effect.
 
Sorry, Lordshiva, but it sounds like a load of b*ll*cks to me!

Carole
 
There are a fair few people that would describe many branches of psychotherapy as exhibiting cult-like behaviours.
 
I know what you mean Proto Chicken - but I do remember seeing it listed on some web page cult watch type thing as a cult.

I suppose it depends how you define a cult. The Pope is very into that Opus Dei lot and so could be seen to be a cultist. Is Scientology a cult? Does it have a religious element?

Also Carole - do you know that some of the most important theorists in NLP and Grovian Metaphor therapy hail from the North East, Cleveland (RIP Cleveland) and Stockton in particular and that there is even a 'Northern School of NLP'? Not that I'm saying we northerners have 'issues'.

:rolleyes:
 
Did your friend tell you about this on April 1st by any chance.;)
 
Come to think of it....

Of course, they could be right there Fortis.

That raises a new question really - how does one define a cult? Ug - can of worms.....
 
I don't get a single word of what they are talking about (but my brain isn't working to full speed right now).


luce
 
Okay, I've read a bit of the more readable stuff on NLP, and my conclusion is this:

Management-oriented psychobabble, which cunningly frames its highly dubious and hard-to-interpret "dogmas" as "only assumptions". So you're supposed to accept them as unquestionable - as if they were true - and if you object that they're not actually true at all, they just say "But assume they were." Er, no thanks.
 
Much (most) NLP is a rehash of much earlier work, the rest of it is sadly trendy bullshit. Go to the 'clean language' link mentioned above and read 'Rapport with Metaphor' - absolutely hilarious!

Netti
 
Do we have any evidence that NLP really works?

Current thinking is best summed up by:

that the assumptions of NLP, namely that our cognition, behaviour and emotions can be 'programmed' by mimicking the more superficial aspects of those with desirable attributes (for example posture and mannerism) are wrong. The last thirty years of research have simply shown that NLP is bunk.--Steven Novella, M.D.

http://skepdic.com/neurolin.html
 
I remember that Derren Brown was a fan, while being strongly skeptical about other potentially 'woo' subjects. If NLP is BS, how does he do what he does?
 
I remember that Derren Brown was a fan, while being strongly skeptical about other potentially 'woo' subjects. If NLP is BS, how does he do what he does?
Worth a read of DB's "Tricks of the Mind" on the topic. It's some time since I read it, but iirc, he says something like "some of it (NLP) appears to work, but it's hard to distinguish between 'NLP' being a causal agent, or just a 'charismatic individual'. Having said that, there's a lot more in the book about how he does some of what he does.
 
I've been exposed to NLP in a number of business settings, and also the (I believe, very-similar, and arguably, derivative) semi/pseudo-science of BMT (Behaviour Management Training). This undoubtedly possesses some aspects of cult adherence and conformity (and might be viewable as being NLP lite for managers)

(See https://www.hollin.co.uk/what_is_bmt/)

For me, there is a fundamental paradox:
HollinsBMT said:
Behaviour can easily be defined as ‘what people say and do’.

HollinsBMT said:
Behavioural Science is distinct from Psychology as it only relates to what people say and do, not what they think or feel

I feel this is emphasising superficiality, a strange differential between thought & deed that rapidly drifts into ontological navel-gazing. Particularly since it also goes on to say:

HollinsBMT said:
The aim of BMT is to get people to do the right things because they want to, not because they have to

Many of the training techniques have a strong NLP vibe about them. I'd be very-interested to hear from any other 'survivors' on the forums that have been put through the imprinting-press.

(ps with respect to Derren: having seen him live quite a few times, and met briefly face-to-face twice: he is undoubtedly an attuned blend of what he is (charisma) and what he does (technique)....)
 
(ps with respect to Derren: having seen him live quite a few times, and met briefly face-to-face twice: he is undoubtedly an attuned blend of what he is (charisma) and what he does (technique)....)
Yep- it's important to note the difference between what a charismatic individual can do and what the layman can do. The argument could be made that if NLP is real, then anyone can do it.

NLP doesn't seem to be reproducible in controlled conditions and when it does appear to work, there are many other confounding variables.
 
Back
Top