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The Dangers Of Mystic Practices

C.O.T.

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Dec 29, 2020
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Spain
Hi, i'm not very expert on religion history or other religions, but i think that sometimes i have read about this kind of idea: The idea of religious mystical practices as a source of spiritual dangers for the practitioners. Have someone read on Christian or other religions mystics about this aware concepts about the mystical training.
I read years ago some books from the 17 century mystic Saint john of the cross, something about, but i cant remember it now exactly.
Have read someone something similar?
 
In my faith, Judaism, there are definite and reasonable warnings on certain things.

Meditation must be done within certain parameters.

Some parts of mystic wisdom have to be approached with a calm head, by seasoned learned scholars; at the risk of death or madness or heresy.
 
My late Father who was a dabbler and explorer of all things occult and mystical, used to say that older societies and our forefathers, used to go to great lengths of preparation prior to engaging in mystical practices, nowadays nobody seems to take any precautions
 
For the Christian approach, there are the writings of St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits - his writings are also widely used in other Christian denominations. With reference to the OP, the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola is available in various editions for Kindle, some at less than a quid.

You can also refer to the following website, which gives a freely available translation - I've linked to a relevant section:

Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius
Of particular interest is the section from line 313 onwards Rules for the Discernment of Spirits
 
Yes, unfortunate outcomes are often documented in Asian religions, especially in Buddhism.


Alexandra David Neel tells of meeting aspiring ascets who turned mad because of their misunderstood practice of "chod", a tibetan ritual where one envisions himself as an offering of food to gods and demons. The poor guys had taken it for real and had subsequently lost their mind. The same Lady also famously reported that meditating on a "tulpa" could turn bad, the created form starting to live a life of its own and sometimes, contending its creator in a Dr Frankenstein fashion ! That's for the folklore ...


In Buddhism, there is a late sutra called the "Shurangama Sutra" which devotes the whole of its final chapter to the "deviations" caused by an incorrect spiritual practice. If my memory is correct, there are more than 42 ways to go wrong ! Usually, what wreaks havoc is that the practitioner accesses partial knowledge, but is not really ready for wisdom, so, he either becomes trapped by pride and false certitudes, or even worse, his bad habits "catch him back" and turn his spiritual progress against him.

That could be said for instance from a mystic who gets a partial insight, but remains lascivious. He turns into a "guru", but then his little knowledge is biased by his weaknesses, and he start preaching lecherous doctrines, or abusing his disciples. In other words, because they do not stand on solid ground, his little accomplishments turn into huge drawbacks.

According to at least one cannonic commentary of the same text, spiritual progress also attracts the attention of spiritual beings who antagonize, tempt or challenge the mystic. So the more he achieves, the more enemies he makes in the spiritual world. If he's not mature enough, he'll fall to some nasty trap and ruin everything.

I've seen the same kind of warning in Taoism. The closer you get to enlightenment or "immortality", the more challenges arise. I've read some texts describing the last stages of the taoist quest as presenting a mix of intolerable suffering ("the marrow boils into your bones") and celestial temptation ("you will be presented with heavenly chariots and offerings, but you should disregard them entirely").

The common message seems to be : "You want to reach wisdom, but what for ? If your goals are tainted by selfishness, you'll get trapped and pay a high price". It's somewhat reminiscent of the Greek concept of Hubris. Only the worthy can fly among the gods. Those who attempt to climb to such heights without virtue are doomed to fall. And its especially relevant in mysticism, because, what childish people often want when they get to some "exotic" practice, are base things such as "power", "recognition", "love", and so on (amusement too)...

That's partly why lots of Eastern religions focus so much of their practices on what are usually called "preliminary practices". These are very basic rituals, who can look VERY superstitious from the outside (and perhaps they are) ... But it is not their true purpose. Their true purpose is to put the student's mind in the right shape for his spiritual adventure, developping "virtues" that will help him avoid later traps, by encouraging him to detach from selfishness, to develop compassion, equanimity and so on. I once heard a Bonpo teacher compare this with going to buy a nice pair of walking shoes before taking a hike in the mountains. Of course, you can go with your plastic sandals, but it might not end well. Better purchase the right gear first.
 
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Additionally, in the Pali canon (probably the oldest known texts about Buddhism), there are several sutras where the Buddha "explains" the "errors" of his philosophical rivals in terms of misinterpretation of an otherwise valid mystic experience.

For instance, he says things like : this guy, through meditation, recollected the memories of his last 100 lives and, because he couldn't find any logic explaining their succession, he concluded that there was no such thing as karma / law of cause and effect. Everything is random. So moral conduct is useless (conclusion of the rival mystic).

The issue pointed by the Buddha is that the rival mystic was led to incorrect conclusion by a genuine achievement because (1) this achievement was incomplete (the guy could only review his last 100 lives and not ALL the lives), (2) his insight wasn't acute enough to understand what he saw.

In any case, according to the Buddha it was the mystic's apparent success which led to his ultimate failure.
 
This tread is very interesting, cause points to a common mystical nucleus on different beliefs along time and space. Is courious how it remembers in some way to the ideas of the Theosophical of the XIX, but think that the Theosophical old ideas (suppose that it would have to evolved along this decades) were quite prone to phantasy. Maybe an approach more related with compared anthropology would be better for nowadays.
There is someone in the forum into the Theosophical Society? Think that still exists and works in some parts of USA.
 
This tread is very interesting, cause points to a common mystical nucleus on different beliefs along time and space. Is courious how it remembers in some way to the ideas of the Theosophical of the XIX, but think that the Theosophical old ideas (suppose that it would have to evolved along this decades) were quite prone to phantasy. Maybe an approach more related with compared anthropology would be better for nowadays.
There is someone in the forum into the Theosophical Society? Think that still exists and works in some parts of USA.
Hi C.O.T. - I briefly belonged to the Theosophical Society in the US about 30 years ago. They are still around. They were well-organized in supporting new members. The common-sensical approach to spirituality they started new members with, over a period of about 6 months, evolved to Madame Blavatsky Batshit Crazy stuff. I have no idea if or how they have changed currently. The Theosophist Society Headquarters in America is in Wheaton Illinois. I visited the HQ: wonderful architecture and library. Open to the public.

Almost every person I met through the Theosophists was poor in critical thinking, deferred to authority, and was ripe for exploitation. As one may imagine, this attracted some very bad people who were there to exploit. I met a few. After I was no longer a member, I did spend some time over a period of about 5 years reading about the Theosophists, written by non-members or former members like Krishnamurti. That was a real education for me. I highly recommend it.

Blavatsky, in addition to "furthering" the Hindu philosophy, was a liar, manipulative, and closed her eye to evil when it suited her purposes. But what I found unforgiveable was how awful her writing was: Kant must have been her expository hero. Snark snark.

"Truth is a pathless land." Krishnamurti accepted the very large financial trust the Theosophists gave him, and decamped to do his own thing. He was not going to be their (celibate) reborn great master. He had a very very nice life thanks to all that Theosophist money and promotion - even after he gave much of the money back, other people stepped in to support him in luxury his entire life. More snark. (Seriously, I think that millions of people could be philosophical, spiritual, sensitive people if they had Krishnamurti's financial advantages.)

Historically, I think that several important mystical movements split off from the Theosophists or were heavily influenced by them. I am sure that a google search would reveal more than my shaky memory. I suspect that the Theosophists were, in the US, a natural bridge to Hindu and Buddhist philosophy for many Americans, which is a good thing. The Theosophists also overlapped with the Spiritualists, which led to the New Age movement in the 1970's.

I think Theosophy by itself contributes nothing of value to mysticism nor to Hindu philosophy.
 
I can only speak for myself but have tried a whole range of mystical practices ranging from Buddhist meditation, Tarot, Gurdjieff groups, Anglican church, and now felt that I was misusing such pursuits as a form of escapism from personal problems and frustrations. I don't think that I caused myself any real harm, just postponed having to tackle the fact that I need to be honest concerning what I want from life and what issues I have to tackle. I enjoy Fortean Times and like reading about other people's mystical and paranormal experiences more from the stance of a curious bystander.
 
But what I found unforgiveable was how awful her writing was: Kant must have been her expository hero. Snark snark.

@Endlessly Amazed superb! I love this place! :twothumbs:

@Mr Bleak That's a sobering and honest summation, thank you. Sounds like you have experience fathoms depp - I hope you feel able to shre on topics that speak to you.
 
think Theosophy by itself contributes nothing of value to mysticism nor to Hindu philosophy
The idea of a community between different religions, and between religion and the tradition of the esotericism is not a trivial concept. Sure that have being build with failures, well, that failures could been fixed. As the post points, Mysticism is full of possibility of error or of sloppiness. But the question is if there is a will of correcting that errors and that sloppiness.
 
The idea of a community between different religions, and between religion and the tradition of the esotericism is not a trivial concept. Sure that have being build with failures, well, that failures could been fixed. As the post points, Mysticism is full of possibility of error or of sloppiness. But the question is if there is a will of correcting that errors and that sloppiness.

I am not sure I understand your post.

In my experience with and view of Theosophy, it is not a community-builder between religions, mystical traditions, or esotericism - or any combination of the three. Madame B was a chain-smoking, obese woman who "borrowed" heavily from Hinduism, and then added on to it with her self-serving interpretation of herself as instrumental in bringing in the next phase of spiritual evolution for mankind.

I think reality is weirder than we can imagine, and that the paranormal is a big part of that. Some aspects of the paranormal can be considered mysticism. I have experienced that paranormal, but do not consider myself a mystic. Decades ago, I told reality/God/whatever to stop giving me precognitive visions if they were not accompanied by the ability to change them. Reality obliged.

Most major religions which I am aware of have some strands which delve into mysticism. Many books exist which explore, compare, and contrast those strands. @AmStramGram, @Victory, and @SimonBurchell have given thoughtful pointers about Buddhism, Judaism, and Christianity.

Jack Kornfield has written much on incorporating a meditation practice into normal life of family, working, taking out the garbage, etc. In his books which I have read, he discusses spiritual hubris and the seduction of the ego while pursuing mysticism. I found much to reflect on in terms of my personal goals and circumstances.

Years ago, in Bloomington, Indiana, I had a series of one-on-one discussions over several months with (Thubten Jigme) Norbu and Helmut Hoffmann in Professor Hoffmann's home. These gentlemen were humble, smart, cheerful, and poked fun at everything. I did not experience these qualities in the Theosophists I met. The Theosophists exemplified spiritual hubris.

(BTW, the American government via the CIA was responsible for bringing these two to the US, and endowing the Indiana University chairs which employed them. This essentially established the Uralic and Altaic Studies Department. Life is fucking weirder than we can imagine! Even now 60 years on, one can see the Tibetan monks in their maroon and yellow gowns at Nick's English Hut, chugging beer with the best of them. Norbu, the Dalai Lama, and “anonymous” donors established a major stupa and school for Tibetan Buddhism a few miles south of Bloomington.)

In this life, for myself, I have no strong inclination to mysticism. I think I have other goals to accomplish. Others may have mystical goals - and that is fine. As @Mr Bleak has written, sometimes pursuing mysticism is a postponement of our real work on earth in this lifetime.

I still remember those discussions from 45 years ago with Hoffmann and Norbu, and have periodically hauled them out of my memory's attic and replayed them. I think my approach to life struck the right balance between action and reflection, even though I have fallen short of kicking ass, conquering the world, and freeing the masses. Hoffmann told me that, by either the path of knowledge or the path of love, one may achieve enlightenment. These two paths are equally difficult and equally worth doing. I think that the path of knowledge has more intrinsic temptations to mystical errors, and the path of love has more intrinsic temptations to carnal and emotional attachment errors.

If one has the premise that reality is everywhere and everywhen, then different views of reality denote either different experiences or different interpretations. Different traditions of mysticism reflect both of these.

I am content with my experiences and my interpretations. I view mysticism for myself as full of dangerous risks of spiritual hubris, ego seduction, and an invitation to not-benign entities to come play with me – all because I know my weaknesses really well. The Buddhist approach to mysticism and spiritual dangers seem to me to be very similar to the Roman Catholic approach. The RC contemplatives who pursue knowledge of God, and the RC believers who devote themselves to serving others - the path of love: both are honorable.

I hope this long-winded response is useful.

Edited for spelling.
 
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