The Disappearance Of Margaret Fleming

[hunck]

But they can pay back every penny of the benefits and if they've spent it, stay in jail until they've worked it off at minimum wage, which would be fair.

I'm assuming their story is that she's been living there up to late last year when the story broke, in which case no benefit fraud has taken place. If the police can't prove she wasn't, what can they do? Plainly there's suspicion but evidence is needed. She could've 'disappeared' any time in the last 17 years.

 

[RyoHazuki]

By all accounts their own health is quite poor these days, the husband is getting on a bit and the wife (who used to keep an immaculate house & garden) is apparently unable/unwilling to look after her house or herself. In which case, even if they were found guilty of fraud, I can't imagine them serving much time, if any.
Obviously it would be different if they could be tied to her demise in some way, but I suspect that if there were hard evidence, it would've turned up by now. They've had plenty of time to cover their tracks, after all.

Unless the police are waiting for the demolition so they can dig up the floors....

 

[escargot]

Unless the police are waiting for the demolition so they can dig up the floors....

Make you wonder. However, if the police had enough to go on, you'd think they'd've already gone for it.

 

[Bigphoot2]

Another development in the case of Margaret Fleming

Carer of missing Margaret Fleming blocks plans to demolish run-down house where they both lived
Bulldozers had been due to be sent in to flatten the riverside property on September 18 after Inverclyde Council condemned it as unfit for human habitation.

The carer of missing woman Margaret Fleming has blocked plans to demolish the house where they both lived.

Council officials served an eviction and demolition order on Avril Jones, the owner of the run-down cottage.
But Jones, 57, lodged an appeal at Greenock Sheriff Court to stop proposals to raze the building to the ground in eight days’ time.

An international police hunt was launched for Margaret, 36, after she was reported missing last October by Jones and her partner Edward Cairney.

etc...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/carer-missing-margaret-fleming-blocks-11140263

 

[escargot]

Another development in the case of Margaret Fleming



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/carer-missing-margaret-fleming-blocks-11140263

Fishy fishy fishy!

 

[Bigphoot2]

Fishy fishy fishy!

That perfectly sums up the whole case.

 

[RaM]

House of secrets.

 

[Mythopoeika]

That means they should dismantle it completely!

 

[Shady]

She's in the fireplace

 

[Bigphoot2]

The Margaret Fleming case rolls on

Margaret Fleming's carers claim she is still alive

The couple who cared for missing woman Margaret Fleming have spoken for the first time since her disappearance was reported almost a year ago.

Police said Margaret, who has learning difficulties, had not been seen by anyone except her carers - Eddie Cairney and Avril Jones - since 1999.

The couple told BBC Scotland Margaret had fled when police arrived because she had a "persecution complex".

They said she had come to "no harm" and had spoken to her recently.

A police spokeswoman confirmed that they knew of no independent sighting of Margaret since 17 December 1999 at a family gathering.

But Mr Cairney, 75, said that over the past year she had been in London and Poland and was now working as a gangmaster.

Etc...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-41542875

 

[Bigphoot2]

The couple said that the police did not believe their story

Really?

 

[escargot]

Meanwhile, we no longer need to be concerned about Margaret Fleming - she has gone to Poland to recruit agricultural workers according to her carers.

She has gone somewhere. I'm not sure she'll be coming back.

I don't find anything odd about an intention to do a long bike ride overnight.

I personally wouldn't do that unless there was a REALLY good reason and I couldn't get there any other way, like... no, I can't think of any circs I'd risk it for!
But that's just me. YMMV.

 

[Min Bannister]

If she traveled to Poland there must be a record somewhere.

And she must have had a passport.

 

[Bigphoot2]

And she must have had a passport.

No doubt her carers will have an answer to that one.

 

[Min Bannister]

No doubt her carers will have an answer to that one.

A big boy dunnit and ran away? ​

 

[Shady]

Yea, she probably tunneled there

 

[Bigphoot2]

She was a master forger who made her own passport and was also fluent in Polish

 

[Rosebud]

I was sure the trial was abandoned but it seems to be back on again:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ling-missing-woman-says-incapable-murder.html

I really hope Margaret gets justice.

 

[Bigphoot2]

Her "carers" have been found guilty of her murder

Margaret Fleming trial: Carers guilty of murdering missing teenager

• 13 minutes ago

Related Topics

• Margaret Fleming trial

Image captionCairney and Jones spent 20 years pretending that Ms Fleming was still alive
Two carers have been convicted of murdering a 19-year-old woman whose death they covered up for 20 years and whose body has never been found.
Edward Cairney, 77, and Avril Jones, 59, killed Margaret Fleming in December 1999 or January of the following year.
The authorities only became suspicious in October 2016 when concerns were raised about a benefits claim made by Jones on Ms Fleming's behalf.
A huge police search operation has failed to find any trace of Ms Fleming.
Cairney insisted during the trial at the High Court in Glasgow that Ms Fleming is still alive and had gone to London.

etc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48635838

 

[escargot]

Her "carers" have been found guilty of her murder
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48635838

So I wonder if her remains will now be found?

 

[Mythopoeika]

So I wonder if her remains will now be found?

Only if they confess.

 

[Spookdaddy]

A most odd case. Some of their statements were so bizarre that they had to either indicate an incredible denseness on the part of the claimant, or they were true - there really isn't a middle ground*. If it was a crime novel, you'd file some of the elements under unbelievable.

Only if they confess.

Unfortunately they'll probably exhaust their appeal process before there's a hope of this happening - and by that time, by the look of him, Cairney will be dead.

I fear Margaret Fleming may be lost forever.

*Edit: What I mean is, if you need to make up an imaginary job for a missing person with learning difficulties you wouldn't actually choose 'gangmaster' unless you were thick as mince, and/or assumed everybody else was. The only time a reasonable person would make such an outlandish claim would be if it was, by some bizarre set of circumstances, true.

 

[Bigphoot2]

Only if they confess.

Maybe one would to try to get a reduced sentence but it's been such a strange case, anything could happen.

 

[Spookdaddy]

Maybe one would to try to get a reduced sentence but it's been such a strange case, anything could happen.

I'm not sure they'd get one. I'm pretty sure that the authorities will view their not-guilty pleas, the consequent necessity of what was effectively two trials, and what is bound to have been an expensive investigation, as bridges burned a long time ago.

Quite often the state's motive for offering benefits in return for post conviction information - especially where it comes to missing bodies - is to offer some sort of closure to the victims family. Given that no-one cared about the poor woman for 17 years, I doubt that's an issue.

 

[Cochise]

A most odd case. Some of their statements were so bizarre that they had to either indicate an incredible denseness on the part of the claimant, or they were true - there really isn't a middle ground*. If it was a crime novel, you'd file some of the elements under unbelievable.



Unfortunately they'll probably exhaust their appeal process before there's a hope of this happening - and by that time, by the look of him, Cairney will be dead.

I fear Margaret Fleming may be lost forever.

*Edit: What I mean is, if you need to make up an imaginary job for a missing person with learning difficulties you wouldn't actually choose 'gangmaster' unless you were thick as mince, and/or assumed everybody else was. The only time a reasonable person would make such an outlandish claim would be if it was, by some bizarre set of circumstances, true.

Would this case be an example of 'folie a deux' ? I probably haven't spelled that right, I'm completely hopeless with foreign languages (unless they are computer languages, that is).

 

[Carse]

I’m glad this sad case has finally reached a conclusion; in my mind it was always clear that Margaret was long since dead. The photos of the house released by Police Scotland and shown on the BBC news website are eye opening, as is the filmed interview recorded for the BBC and used as evidence at the trial. The whole set of circumstances around how Margaret came to be with her ‘carers’ and the extremely odd narrative they came up with to explain her disappearance are truly bizarre. Still, anything can happen in Inverclyde, it really is the wild west.

So I wonder if her remains will now be found?

It has been reported that at the trial a neighbour who was a retired fireman of 30 years service described seeing a large bonfire in their garden and smelling burning flesh.

 

[GNC]

What I mean is, if you need to make up an imaginary job for a missing person with learning difficulties you wouldn't actually choose 'gangmaster' unless you were thick as mince, and/or assumed everybody else was. The only time a reasonable person would make such an outlandish claim would be if it was, by some bizarre set of circumstances, true.

You don't have to be a genius to be a criminal, merely an opportunist. In fact, there can't be many genius criminals at all.

 

[Yithian]

It has been reported that at the trial a neighbour who was a retired fireman of 30 years service described seeing a large bonfire in their garden and smelling burning flesh.

I might have said something about this at quite an early stage.

 

[Spookdaddy]

Would this case be an example of 'folie a deux' ? I probably haven't spelled that right, I'm completely hopeless with foreign languages (unless they are computer languages, that is).

I don't know. Possibly. I think they'd got away with it for so long that they probably just thought they'd get away with it forever. I also wonder if they were subject to the still surprisingly often held idea that without a body you cannot be convicted of murder, and therefore just didn't try very hard - until it was too late.

 

[Cochise]

You don't have to be a genius to be a criminal, merely an opportunist. In fact, there can't be many genius criminals at all.

Well, not many genius criminals that have been caught. A true genius criminal would operate without the authorities knowing a crime had ever been committed.