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The E.U. As A Continuation Of A Nazi State

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yeah we do hear a lot of bollocks from the right about the EU being undemocatic or a nazi plot but basically its a trading block the same as many others around the world and no less democratic than the UK's own political system and probably far less corrupt We also have the fantasies about the EU not auditing their accounts which again is pure fantasy spread by frappage and co as they are published every year and contain less errors than most UK company accounts


Absolutely. It's a very selective filtering of reality, almost exclusively from people who have a very specific axe to grind. Usually because the EU is either preventing or looking to prevent them from doing something deeply unethical or inhumane, and that angers them.
 
..but basically its a trading block the same as many others around the world and no less democratic than the UK's own political system and probably far less corrupt..

You are, of course, having a wee joke ?

INT21
 
yeah we do hear a lot of bollocks from the right about the EU being undemocratic...
"When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain, you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it."
Said that well-known Right-winger, Tony Benn.
 
Right, we've all said our stuff about how nice/nasty the E.U. is.

Back to whether it could in any way be considered a successor to the Nazi state.
 
what i really dont understand is the hysterical shouting about the EU being run by people who are somehow unelected when there are what are known as EU elections which in my home town were usually pretty much ignored
The EU commissioners aren't elected by us. They're appointed.
The people we elect are MEPs (members of European Parliament). MEPs have little power to change anything.
 
The EU commissioners aren't elected by us. They're appointed.
The people we elect are MEPs (members of European Parliament). MEPs have little power to change anything.

But the MEPs do get to vote on approving the Commissioners.

And Yith of course is right! Lets get back on topic. (Phew! No one will notice that this is an addition via edit!)
 
It is a tax haven of the kind that apparently isn't supposed to happen in the EU. :dunno:


Hi Min,

I know this is kind of dragging up a point from a page back, but as somebody pointed this out to me the other day I thought that I'd share it here.

The actual directive which the wealthy few in this Country object to is this one:

The Anti Tax Avoidance Directive:

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custo...dance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en

It has not yet come into force. So Luxembourg be damned, for now! ;)

It was proposed in January 2016, around the time that wealthy men and newspaper owners started throwing money into backing the Leave vote. When you look at the measures it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to work out why. It was approved on the 20th June 2016 and all Member States are supposed to be applying the measures in January 2019 - which is why the self same people wanted us Out before then.

The 5 measures are:

  1. Controlled foreign company (CFC) rule: to deter profit shifting to a low/no tax country.
  2. Switchover rule: to prevent double non-taxation of certain income.
  3. Exit taxation: to prevent companies from avoiding tax when re-locating assets.
  4. Interest limitation: to discourage artificial debt arrangements designed to minimise taxes
  5. General anti-abuse rule: to counteract aggressive tax planning when other rules don’t apply.

There will also be an extensive study into Aggressive Tax Planning.

This is why the likes of Banks, Farage and the Newspaper Barons wanted us out. Because outside of the EU the UK don't have to do a damned thing about Tax Avoidance. And likely won't. If we'd stayed then they would have been screwed, as their Billions of hidden and shifted around cash would have been found and significantly reduced.
 
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Article 13 has just been passed! WTF!
What the actual f...

I'd link to an article, but now we won't be allowed to do that.

If not 'Nazi', definitely fascist!
 
Continue posting her for now, but I will gather the Article 13 posts for a new thread during the day.

It's a pretty major issue and nothing to do with Nazis.
 
There is no exact definition of what National Socialism means in any case. All we can do then is compare the EU with the Third Reich.
An all-encompassing, militaristic state, with an obsession with racial purity, and which attempted to make Europe Judenfrei.
Nope. Doesn't sound much like the EU to me.
 
There is no exact definition of what National Socialism means in any case.
Umm... Sorry to nitpick but isn't "National Socialism" literally defined as "The political doctrine of the Nazi Party"? Ergo, the summation of Nazism as a political philosophy?
All we can do then is compare the EU with the Third Reich. An all-encompassing, militaristic state, with an obsession with racial purity, and which attempted to make Europe Judenfrei. Nope. Doesn't sound much like the EU to me.

Based on the Treaty of Rome that founded the E.U. the notion was to create an antidote to the toxic nationalism that had produced to World Wars and countless smaller wars, as Europe fought it out in a bid for world conquest. It was initially a way of relieving age old customs and border restrictions and for creating frameworks for research co-operation, and grew into an increasingly economic order. Like it or not, the EU has worked to stop wars in Europe among member nations.

On the other hand, the recent development of larger EU nations can use the EU structure to discipline the smaller nations is a direct attack on their national sovereignty, and an authoritarian move that threatens to undermine the EU's continued existence if such acts persist.
 
There is no exact definition of what National Socialism means in any case. All we can do then is compare the EU with the Third Reich.
An all-encompassing, militaristic state, with an obsession with racial purity, and which attempted to make Europe Judenfrei.
Nope. Doesn't sound much like the EU to me.

Only if you really squint and want to picture it that way, I agree.

Others have said 'Nazi Germany didn't start that way'. And sure, while that is true, it did build that way within the space of a decade. It had multiple iterations - like the private militia of the SA being violently replaced by the SS.

But Race - and one racial nation only - was the underpinning factor.

The EU has none of that. It offers all nations who want to uphold themselves to reasonable, fair and inclusive values the opportunity to join. But a vote to join must be unanimously agreed upon by the existing member States.

It has had 40 years in which if it had some nasty hidden agenda we would have seen some truly tangible glimpse of it.

We haven't.
 
It has had 40 years in which if it had some nasty hidden agenda we would have seen some truly tangible glimpse of it.

We haven't.
But we have.

While I'd agree the EU is not comparable to the National Socialists, they have repeatedly demonstrated utter contempt for democracy and even their own democratic process. As Billothewisp summed up:

billothewisp said:
The Eu legislature is un-elected and unaccountable. Only the un-elected commission can propose legislation.

True - there is a fig-leaf of democracy in an elected Eu Parliament. But this is an emasculated talking shop. It cannot instigate legislation, which has to be the prime reason for any parliament. The Eu Parliaments powers are for all intents and purposes, little more than the UK House of Lords.

This is wrong.

But worse than this, is the way the Eu bends democracy to breaking point in order to get its way.

Several times treaties have been legitimately and democratically rejected by national referenda. On each occasion the Eu has instigated a fear campaign and forced another referendum within the country concerned to reverse the decision.

Even worse they can (and have) deliberately overthrown democratic decisions. The worst and most flagrant example of this involved the defunct EU Constitution and the subsequent affront to democracy called the Treaty of Lisbon.

I'll just remind you how this shocking anti-democratic coup took place.

The original Eu Constitution was vetoed by two referenda in France and Holland. Further referenda vetoes were certain.

Consequently the Eu Constitution (per-se) was dropped.

A victory for democracy?

Hardly.

By sleight of hand the Commission resurrected the constitution.

They replaced it with the (deliberately) unintelligible Treaty of Lisbon. It is unintelligible because it is in essence a set of line by line amendments to existing treaties. They are amended to reflect the content of the vetoed constitution.

As an amendment to existing treaties, the Treaty of Lisbon did not require countries to exercise a referendum. Only Ireland held a referendum. They vetoed the Treaty of Lisbon. Undeterred, the Eu Oligarchy forced a re-run. After a scare campaign the result was reversed.

Democracy was defeated. The ruling Eu Oligarchy ignored the true wishes of the peoples of the Eu. They imposed their Eu Constitution.

Such actions demonstrate a total contempt for democratic rule.

The idea that 'nazi' = 'bad' and 'slightly left of center' = 'good' does not mean that the subversion of democracy is either right or desirable.

It really doesn't matter what the ideology of a tyranny is, it's still a tyranny and sure as eggs are eggs, once a tyranny is in place, dissenters will be dealt with in the traditional fashion. Whether the boot and hoods are green or black, it makes no difference.

Sure the EU don't sport Swastikas. But they're still a virtual oligarchy and a hair's breadth from a tyranny.
 
Somebody misread the thread title and the forum name and posted a very long political rant.

Now deleted.

I'm also locking the thread. Nobody has posted or really hinted at a single point for us to discuss about how or why the E.U. might be 'a continuation of the Nazi State' (this does not mean 'a bit crap at actual democracy'). The opening post was a huge stretch which nobody could substantiate, and the thread has since become a place to rehearse the same arguments as we had during the referendum.

I'll let Stu decide what to do with it.

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