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The Enfield Poltergeist

Mag-ona said:
Only if you could accept the fact that we dwell in a world that is far, far
more than what reaches the eye and that we, ourselves are conduits to it too.

But, you are like some who are out there who have closed themselves off from that
other facet of our universe. Not intentionally, of course but nevertheless
there are reasons why some see and experience it
and others do not.

For the skeptic, all we can ask is that they someday allow
for a more generous and evenhanded approach to the world that we all live in.
One that acknowledges that even if one cannot experience or see it in its entirety (or closer to it), the fact that there are more out there in this world who DO experience it at least at some level, should be a big
indication to them that something on their end is seriously amiss.
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Pretty condescending. It's not unreasonable to examine a phenomenon that involves accounts that lie entirely without proven physics and which provide no conclusive evidence they even occurred and arrive at the conclusion no unknown or spiritual agencies were at work.
Mag-ona said:
God only gives us what we can handle.
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This supposed spiritual agency, on the other hand, only has 'feelings' and tradition on its side, and it's the most unlikely entity described by human mythology. Abandon your false faith and worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster while your soul is still salvageable!
 
Your "God" and religion is science and it's a very limiting one because you take off the table anything that you can't explain.

Yet you guys strut around acting like you're better than everybody else, shaming those who don't worship science like you do.. a very primitive science at that.. and one that can't even figure out how to cure the common cold! Fortunately, you're vastly outnumbered guys. You are in the minority though you wouldn't know that because birds of a feather flock together. You only associate with those who think like you do too but don't blame you on that one though it's a very, very small group. lol

Someday, what is now in the "impossible" "off the table" category WILL be explained by a science that's light years ahead of the one we have now. It's science that hasn't been discovered yet.
 
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Mag-ona said:
Your "God" and religion is science and it's a very limiting one because you take off the table anything that you can't explain.
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Not mine! I'm a fortean, and naturally very suspicious of mainstream science. I wouldn't frequent a forum like this if I thought science had all the answers. But I'm old enough not to believe whatever I like the idea of just because someone said something happened, and I personally am very discerning about what I take off the table.

Mag-ona said:
Yet you guys strut around acting like you're better than everybody else, shaming those who don't worship science like you do..
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Yeah, but you were really condescending to Oldrover. You deserved some comeback.

Mag-ona said:
...birds of a feather flock together. You only associate with those who think like you do too but don't blame you on that one though it's a very, very small group.
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Actually a fairly perceptive observation of the nature of partisan-minded people in general, but I've never known Fortean Times board members be like that in general. For example, I'm defending Oldrover (not that it's my place, I know) when, unlike him, I think there's enough consistent anecdotal evidence to take poltergeist activity seriously. Accusing people who disagree with you of some emotionally derived fault in their reasoning is another common human trait.

Mag-ona said:
lol
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Still condescending.

Mag-ona said:
Someday, what is now in the "impossible" "off the table" category WILL be explained by a science that's light years ahead of the one we have now. It's science that hasn't been discovered yet.
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I don't know about 'light years ahead', but I certainly hope this to be the case. It's always been true of science in the past (meteorites, quantum theory, dark energy, etc).

On the whole, stop assuming things you don't know about people who disagree with you, and we'll all get along better.
 
Guys, I think a lot of this may be my doing as I've very clear views about this case. It's one of my two pet things here.

I've come to my conclusions having looked at the evidence over quite a few years, and I've become convinced of my viewpoint.

And yes, I do try to tend toward quite a critical mind set. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

That said, here, I'm restricting anything I say to this particular case. Not expanding on the wider idea of the paranormal. For want of a better word.
 
I keep forgetting that there are more UK people here than Americans. I'm just stating the facts as I know them but will try to be more sensitive about how I come across sometimes to my neighbors across the pond. :) Will start off by trying to be a little more polite.
 
PeteByrdie said:
Not mine! I'm a fortean, and naturally very suspicious of mainstream science. I wouldn't frequent a forum like this if I thought science had all the answers. But I'm old enough not to believe whatever I like the idea of just because someone said something happened, and I personally am very discerning about what I take off the table.


Yeah, but you were really condescending to Oldrover. You deserved some comeback.


Actually a fairly perceptive observation of the nature of partisan-minded people in general, but I've never known Fortean Times board members be like that in general. For example, I'm defending Oldrover (not that it's my place, I know) when, unlike him, I think there's enough consistent anecdotal evidence to take poltergeist activity seriously. Accusing people who disagree with you of some emotionally derived fault in their reasoning is another common human trait.



Still condescending.


I don't know about 'light years ahead', but I certainly hope this to be the case. It's always been true of science in the past (meteorites, quantum theory, dark energy, etc).

On the whole, stop assuming things you don't know about people who disagree with you, and we'll all get along better.
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Acknowledged and thanks for your clarifications.
 
Mag-ona said:
I keep forgetting that there are more UK people here than Americans. I'm just stating the facts as I know them but will try to be more sensitive about how I come across sometimes to my neighbors across the pond. :) Will start off by trying to be a little more polite.
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I was perhaps a little uncharitable. I've been cranky all day.
 
No, you were right... I was indeed less than polite and I need to curb that. Thanks for your reminder on that.
 
It turns out that I know someone who was at school with Janet!!!
I've known them about 8 years and while I knew they were from Enfield I neve thought to ask them. It came up via someone else.
So what revelations - none that seem fair to post as is, just childish gossipy hearsay. However he is going to quiz his parents who will have a different POV.
No promises.
 
Yes, looking forward to inside information on the Warrens from a new member called General Huig de Zaarster, who used to work at a secret Korps Commandotroepen base in a bunker deep beneath Forty Hall.

Or something.
 
Has anyone ever heard mention of this before;

"Many other SPR investigators also spent time at the house, but most of them came away unimpressed, as it seemed fairly obvious that Janet was simply throwing small objects or knocking on things when nobody was looking. SPR investigators even found a magazine article that had been torn out and kept, about some claimed poltergeist disruptions centered around a boy named Matthew Manning. Manning's disturbances had started with a disappearing teapot, and Janet's did too".

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4527

It's thefirst time I've ever come across it. If it is accurate though, I'd say it was extremely damning.
 
Apparently I had heard about, but not taken it in. It's in this Gaurdian article.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/may/01/the-enfield-poltergeist-a-skeptic-speaks

Here's the relevant passage

It seems from a torn out magazine article found in the house that Janet had probably heard of Matthew Manning another child-focus of poltergeist phenomena. Manning’s mother had reported that the first strange event in their house was the disappearance of a teapot, and it was also one of the first incidents at Enfield.
 
oldrover said:
Apparently I had heard about, but not taken it in. It's in this Gaurdian article.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/may/01/the-enfield-poltergeist-a-skeptic-speaks

Here's the relevant passage

It seems from a torn out magazine article found in the house that Janet had probably heard of Matthew Manning another child-focus of poltergeist phenomena. Manning’s mother had reported that the first strange event in their house was the disappearance of a teapot, and it was also one of the first incidents at Enfield.
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There is a photo of Manning at the house, sitting next to the girls on the sofa. I saw it in a the Unexplained, he was an adult by then.
There are quite a few articles about Manning, one of which being his alleged ability to channel dead artists and produce paintings by them. He has a website, just checked.

Edit: Beaten to it ^^^
 
The website seems to be inactive, or perhaps it just has a psychic shield against sceptics.

I can't find any direct links, other than the magazine article being found, between the two on Google. I'll try the book.

I probably had that issue of The Unexplained.

Thanks both.
 
From page 161 of This House is Haunted.

"Matthew Manning was parking his Jensen Healey sports car next to Vic Nottingham's modest van as I arrived on foot from the local station....

I'd asked him to come over for two reasons: I thought it would be interesting for him to have a look at someone else's poltergeist, and I wanted Mrs Harper to see that [poltergeist victims, of whom Matthew was the most celebrated in the country thanks to his books and TV appearances, could survive the ordeal and grow up into perfectly sane and normal people. Moreover, they could actually benefit from the experience by taking a serious interest in psychic phenomena, as he had."

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 
Poltergeists are stealing teapots now? Is there no end to their evil?
 
Naughty_Felid said:
Rynner ffs get a grip. You are Rynner not one of the chicks here like Ulu or Frides, you do not do the group hug emoticon on my watch.

Where is Scarg when I need her to sort this gentleman out? :mad:
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rynner is a 21st century kind of guy, he can dish out hugs or right hooks as the occasion demands (or a sentence of cleaning out the heads on all the ships in the fortean navy)
 
Roland Deschain said:
It turns out that I know someone who was at school with Janet!!!
I've known them about 8 years and while I knew they were from Enfield I neve thought to ask them. It came up via someone else.
So what revelations - none that seem fair to post as is, just childish gossipy hearsay. However he is going to quiz his parents who will have a different POV.
No promises.
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Nothing. I'm getting the impression that the locals were less than impressed.
 
Naughty_Felid said:
Rynner ffs get a grip. You are Rynner not one of the chicks here like Ulu or Frides, you do not do the group hug emoticon on my watch.

Where is Scarg when I need her to sort this gentleman out? :mad:
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Show us on this ginger bread man where Rynner touched you .. it's not your fault ..
 
Hi forum

A few observations really

1) is there any evidence, in any form, of William Wilkins bring buried at St. James Church cemetery in Enfield? If so how?
2) why is there so little known about the Hobson brothers? We're both present throughout the activities? Poor Johnny died in 1981 at the age if 14- again is there any further evidence?

Thanks

C
 
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