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The Falklands

"The immediate events that triggered the war and the details of the conflict itself are well known to the British public. But it is often forgotten that, for a period of 16 years beginning in 1965, there was a bilateral negotiation process between Argentina and the UK that was in line with the mandate of the UN resolutions. These were true negotiations on the substance of the issue, sovereignty. Over that period of time, several concrete alternatives were explored to help resolve the dispute between our countries, taking into account the interests of the inhabitants of the islands."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nds-war-britain-sovereignty-uk-un-resolutions

My bold. The reality is that the UK has sought a resolution with Argentina in the past.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Like Argentina would be any different?
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The point I'm making is that the British State should not be paying out all that money to protect the interests of a private company. Charge it for the protection or nationalise it in lieu of payment.
 
WeirdExeter said:
"The immediate events that triggered the war and the details of the conflict itself are well known to the British public. But it is often forgotten that, for a period of 16 years beginning in 1965, there was a bilateral negotiation process between Argentina and the UK that was in line with the mandate of the UN resolutions. These were true negotiations on the substance of the issue, sovereignty. Over that period of time, several concrete alternatives were explored to help resolve the dispute between our countries, taking into account the interests of the inhabitants of the islands."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nds-war-britain-sovereignty-uk-un-resolutions

My bold. The reality is that the UK has sought a resolution with Argentina in the past.
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Yes, they did. Which makes the 1980s war completely incomprehensible. Because the war happened, that has made it very difficult to trust them enough to begin any negotiations again. They blotted their copybook.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Yes, they did. Which makes the 1980s war completely incomprehensible. Because the war happened, that has made it very difficult to trust them enough to begin any negotiations again. They blotted their copybook.
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A good point, however we trust modern Germany despite the German people once being in thrall of the fascist Nazis for over a decade
 
Mythopoeika said:
Do we?
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Their sausages aren't the wurst. Seriously though Germany will not rise again as a military power. They were trusted during the Cold War when their Armed Forces were more than twice the size they are now.
 
We are now further away in time from the Falklands war, than that was from the end of WWII.
That would seem to suggest that enough time has gone by to be able to forego any lasting enmity.

People forget that Argentina was for a very long time indeed quite British in its society, they even played Polo (I believe they still do).
"By 1914, Argentina had become one of the world's largest trading nations and, according to some, the tenth most prosperous country in the world. She exported more than all the South American countries together. Argentina was the agricultural 'EI Dorado' of the world. It was principally British technology, British capital, British management, combined with massive immigration from southern Europe, which converted Argentina from an economic backwater into the wealthiest country in South America"
https://www.britishempire.co.uk/lib...ltural EI,wealthiest country in South America.
 
Well, thats the thing, isnt it?

The Argentinians are our friends...but like all friends, we must fight over worthless things.
 
Trevp666 said:
We are now further away in time from the Falklands war, than that was from the end of WWII.
That would seem to suggest that enough time has gone by to be able to forego any lasting enmity.

People forget that Argentina was for a very long time indeed quite British in its society, they even played Polo (I believe they still do).
"By 1914, Argentina had become one of the world's largest trading nations and, according to some, the tenth most prosperous country in the world. She exported more than all the South American countries together. Argentina was the agricultural 'EI Dorado' of the world. It was principally British technology, British capital, British management, combined with massive immigration from southern Europe, which converted Argentina from an economic backwater into the wealthiest country in South America"
https://www.britishempire.co.uk/library/britainandthemakingofargentina.htm#:~:text=Argentina was the agricultural EI,wealthiest country in South America.
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The Falklands are the Cromer of the South Atlantic, only of interest to the UK and Argentina because of mineral oil wealth. Neither state really gives a toss about the Bennys.
 
If the people start getting a bit snotty the Argentine government starts banging the Falkland drum to give them something else to think about. In Brazil it’s a UFO scare.
 
The Argies don't seem very grateful to the Brits for delivering them from fascism!
 
They don’t understand us to them we are that strange country from the other side of the equator that every 100 years or so come down and give them a good leathering then buggers off back.
 
Trevp666 said:
...People forget that Argentina was for a very long time indeed quite British in its society, they even played Polo (I believe they still do)...
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There's a quote (often attributed to Borges - although last time I looked I couldn't find a specific source) which goes something along the lines of: an Argentine is an Italian who speaks Spanish, thinks like a Frenchman and secretly desires to be English.

blessmycottonsocks said:
The Argies don't seem very grateful to the Brits for delivering them from fascism!
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I think that was definitely one of the positives of that conflict - unfortunately, in that way that is somehow always the way, most of the actual fascists lived to retirement age and beyond, their actions generally paid for in full by miserable and underequipped young boys on mandatory military service, who were as afraid of their own officers as they were of the British army.
 
Three things I remember from the Falklands conflict : first it wasn't a war as the international contracts and trade treaties between GB and Argentina were not cancelled. Second, after the re-taking the tabloids made a big thing of a couple and their young kids moving to the Falklands with a Fish 'n 'Chip van to start a new life. They were back within a year - perhaps reality of South Atlantic Island living didn't match up with their expectations. I've just tried to look up house prices in Stanley but can't get current data - cost of living is quite high though. Thirdly there was a movement (mostly lead by grandmothers) to find the children of the 'Missing' before and after the Argentinian Junta fell. Helpful suggestion from geneticists was to set up a national genetic database so that grandchildren forcibly adopted could be match with their real family through maternal mitochondrial DNA. Unease at the time was what's stopping a future Junta from using the database to arrest dissidents, their parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, children etc.
 
I don't think peace was ever declared so we are still at war unless someone knows different,
we also still have a flyable Vulcan only lacking the paper work to fly, not only that but
Martin Withers the pilot that flew the first Black Buck raid is still current fly that down to
Wide Awake on Ascension that should at least make them think.
:omr:
 
Military hardware has move on a lot since the 1980s though. We now have any number of alternatives to flying an aged Vulcan bomber half-way around the world to bomb a single runway.
Nuclear powered subs which carry all sorts of non-nuclear missile armaments.
Drone aircraft which can be armed and launched from standard Naval vessels.
Long-range ballistic missiles.
Stealth aircraft (both fighters and bombers).
Advanced air-to-air refuelling aircraft.
And don't forget that the military presence on The Falklands is now much increased from the 200 or so personnel that were stationed there at the time, along with a collection of S.A.M. defences.
Even if we assume that the US wouldn't get involved if anything kicked off down there, it would be unlikely that any of the South American countries would have a sufficiently powerful enough military force to enable them to consider taking any action against any of our territories in the South Atlantic.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Oh dear.
The Argentinians have elected neo-fascist Javier Milei, who has claimed sovereignty over The Falkland isles.
After the catastrophic Galtieri regime, you'd have thought the Argentinians might have heeded Churchill's wise words:
"Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-11-21...sident-calls-for-handover-of-falkland-islands
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He isn't threatening war though:

'During a TV election debate, Mr Milei also said: “What do I propose? Argentina’s sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands is non-negotiable. The Malvinas are Argentine.

“Now we have to see how we are going to get them back. It is clear that the war option is not a solution.

“We had a war – that we lost – and now we have to make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels.”'
 
Beresford said:
He isn't threatening war though:

'During a TV election debate, Mr Milei also said: “What do I propose? Argentina’s sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands is non-negotiable. The Malvinas are Argentine.

“Now we have to see how we are going to get them back. It is clear that the war option is not a solution.

“We had a war – that we lost – and now we have to make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels.”'
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But his use of language is bizarre and provocative.
How can Argentina "recover" territory that was never theirs?
 
I think whoever gets in as leader of Argentina would take this position, because it's a nationalistic rallying cry.
History does not agree with them.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Allegedly it was French navigator Louis-Antoine de Bougainville in 1764.
But France never claimed the Falklands.
The Brits first settled there in 1765.
Argentina was founded in 1816.
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The Brits are a native tribe which lived on the islands.
 
"The Falklands" is a box that Argentine pols have to tick in order to win elections, much as our home-grown specimens have to mouth platitudes about certain red-button issues.

Milei - a populist libertarian - knows that they have two hopes re this issue. It has, however, been said.

maximus otter
 
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