The Famous Phantom Double-Decker Bus

I know I'm resurrecting an ancient thread here...

I believe I might've seen this bus. Happened 4-5 years ago, it was daytime and I was waiting for bus 7 outside Ladbroke Grove station (stop name B). There was bus 7 waiting on the traffic lights (this spot is right next to Cambridge Gardens). I looked down to find my oyster card but when I got up the bus was gone. I did not think much of it that moment, except that it was really weird to me, as the bus clearly was nowhere to be seen anymore and I couldn't think of a road it could've turned to.

Later that day the incident got me wondering if there were any London ghost bus stories. I searched on google and turned out the story of bus number 7 was the only one out there. Only then I got proper chills and goosebumps!

As to how it looked, it did not stand out to me, looks-wise. I can't recall was it new or old looking, only that I had seen the number 7 and got ready to board. Old routemasters weren't running anymore at that point. I lived in 2002-03 in the end of #7 route and used the old routemasters daily, so if it had looked old I probably wouldn't have thought anything of it, out of old habit.
 
stoneshade said:
I know I'm resurrecting an ancient thread here...

I believe I might've seen this bus. Happened 4-5 years ago, it was daytime and I was waiting for bus 7 outside Ladbroke Grove station (stop name B). There was bus 7 waiting on the traffic lights (this spot is right next to Cambridge Gardens). I looked down to find my oyster card but when I got up the bus was gone. I did not think much of it that moment, except that it was really weird to me, as the bus clearly was nowhere to be seen anymore and I couldn't think of a road it could've turned to.

Later that day the incident got me wondering if there were any London ghost bus stories. I searched on google and turned out the story of bus number 7 was the only one out there. Only then I got proper chills and goosebumps!

As to how it looked, it did not stand out to me, looks-wise. I can't recall was it new or old looking, only that I had seen the number 7 and got ready to board. Old routemasters weren't running anymore at that point. I lived in 2002-03 in the end of #7 route and used the old routemasters daily, so if it had looked old I probably wouldn't have thought anything of it, out of old habit.
Click to expand...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5...=65.10235&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656
 
I was watching Michael Portillo's train travel programme the other day and he was talking about 'Ghost Trains' - not actually those from the spirit realms but 'Parliamentary Trains' which run on weird routes at weird times with virtually no passengers, as some sort of legal ruse to keep the lines open. You can read about them here
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150723-why-britain-has-secret-ghost-trains
anyway I wondered if there was some odd connection between these half-remembered routes (which no doubt exist on buses too) and phantom transport. It's conceivable isn't it.

Anyway, more interestingly I have dug out some newspaper accounts of the ghostly London bus. Or at least, some things that mention it. It's a good explanation for all those accidents on the corner. I loved that drawing in the Usborne book as a kid.

Curiously this is from the Birmingham Daily Gazette (16th June 1934) so rather far removed from the location :)

A brilliantly-lighted meter-bus roaring through the streets of Kensington without driver or passengers; A bus which stops for passengers and suddenly vanishes when one tries to board it.
Residents in the North Kensington district were excitedly discussing these remarkable "phenomena" last night following a reference to a ghost bus at a London inquest on Ian James Steven Beaton, metallurgical engineer, of Dollis Hill, who died following a collision at the corner of St. MArk's-road and Cambridge-gardens.
Replying to a question whether this was a place where a ghost bus was stated to have been seen, one of the witnesses replied, "So some of them say."

A Birmingham Gazette representative discovered last night that the legend of the phantom bus is well-established in the neighbourhood. "The legend of the phantom bus has been going strong for years," said a woman resident in Cambridge-gardens. "I have never seen it and I have never met anybody who has, but the version I heard was that on certain nights, long after the regular bus service has stopped, people have been awakened by the roar of a bus coming down the street. When they have gone to their windows they have seen a brilliantly lighted double-decker bus approaching with neither driver nor passengers. According to this story, the bus goes careering to the corner of Cambridge-gardens and St. Mark's-road, and then vanishes. A number of accidents have happened at this corner, and it has been suggested that the phantom bus has been the cause."

Quite another version was told by Mr. William Rampton, a motor mechanic, of St. Mark's-road. "The story of a ghost bus," he said, "seems to have originated in an experience related by a woman more than two years ago. According to her account she was alighting from a bus at the corner of the road, intending to catch another bus to her destination. She asked the conductor which bus she ought to take and he pointed to a bus which was standing a few yards away. She approached the bus and was about to board it when it vanished into thin air. Ever since then, this story of a ghost bus has been prevalent in the neighbourhood."​


And this (I know it's long winded) is an account of the inquest mentioned above (in the West London Observer of the 22nd June). So the mention of the phantom bus comes from the lawyer of one of the people in the accident - who knows why, but I suppose it accentuates that it's a dangerous corner. And perhaps highlights the well-known-ness of the local story?

Reference to a "ghost" bus reported to have been seen in the middle of the night at cross-road in North Kensington was made during an inquest at Paddington on Friday concerning the death of John James Beaton, aged 25, of Hamilton Road, Dollis Hill, Willesden, who was driving a small motor-car that collided with a Rolls Royce car at the junction of Cambridge Gardens and St. Mark's Road, North Kensington.

It was stated that following the collision the small car ran a zig-zag course for a short distance, then overturned and burst into flames by a lamp-post. The driver Beaton and his girl passenger, Miss Margaret Sim, of Hanger Lane, Ealing, were thrown out, and both taken to hospital.
James Beaton, a gamekeeper, of Inverness, Scotland, identified the body as that of his son, who, he said, had been driving cars for five or six years.
Fredk Robinson, of Chesterton Road, North Kensington, said that on Monday night, June 11th, he was standign at the junction of the roads when he saw the small motor-car coming up Cambridge Gardens, to cross St. Mark's Road at a rather fast pace. At the crossing the driver appeared to accelerate, and then he noticed a large car coming in St Mark's Road, and it was travelling about the crown of the road. The driver of this car put on his brakes on reaching the cross-roads and witness felt there was bound to be a smash. The small car was in the crossing when it was struck in the rear by the bumper of the large car. It careered along for a few yards in a zig-zag course, and then overturning, burst into flames. Witness had not heard any horn sounded before the cars arrived at the crossing.

The Coroner: Can you say if either of the cars were to blame? - No, it is a very dangerous point there.
Counsel appearing for the driver of the Rolls Royce car: This corner is famous for accidents, and is a spot where the ghost or phantom bus is supposed to be seen? - Yes.

[other witness statements follow]

In returning a verdict of "Accidental Death" the jury exonerated the driver of the Rolls Royce car from blame.
​
 
Eponastill said:
I was watching Michael Portillo's train travel programme the other day and he was talking about 'Ghost Trains' - not actually those from the spirit realms but 'Parliamentary Trains' which run on weird routes at weird times with virtually no passengers, as some sort of legal ruse to keep the lines open. You can read about them here
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150723-why-britain-has-secret-ghost-trains
anyway I wondered if there was some odd connection between these half-remembered routes (which no doubt exist on buses too) and phantom transport. It's conceivable isn't it.

Anyway, more interestingly I have dug out some newspaper accounts of the ghostly London bus. Or at least, some things that mention it. It's a good explanation for all those accidents on the corner. I loved that drawing in the Usborne book as a kid.

Curiously this is from the Birmingham Daily Gazette (16th June 1934) so rather far removed from the location :)

A brilliantly-lighted meter-bus roaring through the streets of Kensington without driver or passengers; A bus which stops for passengers and suddenly vanishes when one tries to board it.
Residents in the North Kensington district were excitedly discussing these remarkable "phenomena" last night following a reference to a ghost bus at a London inquest on Ian James Steven Beaton, metallurgical engineer, of Dollis Hill, who died following a collision at the corner of St. MArk's-road and Cambridge-gardens.
Replying to a question whether this was a place where a ghost bus was stated to have been seen, one of the witnesses replied, "So some of them say."

A Birmingham Gazette representative discovered last night that the legend of the phantom bus is well-established in the neighbourhood. "The legend of the phantom bus has been going strong for years," said a woman resident in Cambridge-gardens. "I have never seen it and I have never met anybody who has, but the version I heard was that on certain nights, long after the regular bus service has stopped, people have been awakened by the roar of a bus coming down the street. When they have gone to their windows they have seen a brilliantly lighted double-decker bus approaching with neither driver nor passengers. According to this story, the bus goes careering to the corner of Cambridge-gardens and St. Mark's-road, and then vanishes. A number of accidents have happened at this corner, and it has been suggested that the phantom bus has been the cause."

Quite another version was told by Mr. William Rampton, a motor mechanic, of St. Mark's-road. "The story of a ghost bus," he said, "seems to have originated in an experience related by a woman more than two years ago. According to her account she was alighting from a bus at the corner of the road, intending to catch another bus to her destination. She asked the conductor which bus she ought to take and he pointed to a bus which was standing a few yards away. She approached the bus and was about to board it when it vanished into thin air. Ever since then, this story of a ghost bus has been prevalent in the neighbourhood."​
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I think I read this actual account possibly in a Daniel Farson book.
Hamlyn+book+of+Ghosts+001.jpg
 
The Official Ghost Quest on facebook posted this last month:


"St Mark's Road, Kensington, London

The phantom bus that haunts St Mark's Road is one of the strangest of London ghosts, even though it seems to have lain dormant for almost eighty years. It first came to the public's attention after the death of a young motorist in June 1934. His car burst into flames after he swerved off the road to avoid a No 7 bus. The bus was fully lit and completely empty (including driver). It had the word 'General' on the side (picture 1 shows a bus from the London General Omnibus Company). For a decade at precisely 1.15am, the driverless coach careered down the middle of the road towards motorists and disappeared just before impact.

By the way, the last sighting occurred in May 1990. That year coincided with a series of changes to the road, including widening it, fixing it, and improving visibility by adding more street illumination."
 
DrPaulLee said:
The Official Ghost Quest on facebook posted this last month:


"St Mark's Road, Kensington, London

The phantom bus that haunts St Mark's Road is one of the strangest of London ghosts, even though it seems to have lain dormant for almost eighty years. It first came to the public's attention after the death of a young motorist in June 1934. His car burst into flames after he swerved off the road to avoid a No 7 bus. The bus was fully lit and completely empty (including driver). It had the word 'General' on the side (picture 1 shows a bus from the London General Omnibus Company). For a decade at precisely 1.15am, the driverless coach careered down the middle of the road towards motorists and disappeared just before impact.

By the way, the last sighting occurred in May 1990. That year coincided with a series of changes to the road, including widening it, fixing it, and improving visibility by adding more street illumination."
Click to expand...
In the book where I first read about this, published in 1969, the road layout had already been altered and the bus sightings were believed to have to ceased.

The 1934 inquest was mentioned but not the 01:15 spectral timetable. Could that be a later elaboration?
 
Floyd1 said:
What was up with the old road layout then? Looks ok here circa 1914;
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sid...1.51752&lon=-0.21479&layers=168&right=BingHyb
Click to expand...
It might have been that the roads were becoming more dangerous because there were a lot more motor vehicles around than there had been before. They were faster than horses and needed more concentration (not to mention sobriety) to control and to steer round corners.
A driver would most likely come off worse in a collision with a bus.

According to the trustworthy and very interesting Coventry Transport Museum website,

With the advent of mass production, pioneered by Henry Ford, the inter-war years saw a huge boom in private car ownership. The number of private cars on the roads doubled during the 1930s from 1 million to 2 million by the outbreak of WWII.
Click to expand...

By this time, most cars were able to reach speeds of around 70mph, but a 20mph speed limit was scrapped in 1930 because it was so difficult to enforce.
As a result, motorcars killed 7,343 people in 1934 (compared with 2,538 in 2008). Half of them were pedestrians.
Click to expand...

Coventry Transport Museum

Perhaps roads on bus routes in other areas of London and elsewhere were already being altered to accommodate cars and their dangers. Someone will know about that. *

The idea of the ghost bus might have been an expression of fear about the growing dangers on the roads to which the road-widening was a practical response.


* This doesn't seem farfetched to me. In Cheshire where I live miles of hedges were cut down in the 1930s and replaced with black and white painted metal fences to provide better road vision for motorists.

In the '60s when I was growing up many lanes were bare of hedges and there were only the easily-climbable fences. The farmers can't have been happy!

These days the hedges have regrown or been replanted and they co-exist with the fences, which are often proudly maintained in their original livery to match the older road signs.

(When we're out on the bikes I notice the hedges/fences in various combinations and sometimes recall how a lane looked with just the fences. Seeing him hedges next to them still seems strange to me when I can remember the bare fences.)
 
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escargot said:
It might have been that the roads were becoming more dangerous because there were a lot more motor vehicles around than there had been before. They were faster than horses and needed more concentration (not to mention sobriety) to control and to steer round corners.
A driver would most likely come off worse in a collision with a bus.

According to the trustworthy and very interesting Coventry Transport Museum website,





Coventry Transport Museum

Perhaps roads on bus routes in other areas of London and elsewhere were already being altered to accommodate cars and their dangers. Someone will know about that. *

The idea of the ghost bus might have been an expression of fear about the growing dangers on the roads to which the road-widening was a practical response.


* This doesn't seem farfetched to me. In Cheshire where I live miles of hedges were cut down in the 1930s and replaced with black and white painted metal fences to provide better road vision for motorists.

In the '60s when I was growing up many lanes were bare of hedges and there were only the easily-climbable fences. The farmers can't have been happy!

These days the hedges have regrown or been replanted and they co-exist with the fences, which are often proudly maintained in their original livery to match the older road signs.

(When we're out on the bikes I notice the hedges/fences in various combinations and sometimes recall how a lane looked with the just the fences. It still seems strange to me when I can remember the bare fences.)
Click to expand...
Yes, of course a map doesn't tell you how wide the road was or what was in the way. I was expecting it to be on a bend or something though. (Nice anomaly just to the west of here. A modern roundabout on westway that has two stubs cut off in mid air where it was going to continue as part of the London ringways system).
 
Are old street maps of the area available? I know that Google Earth sometimes had old maps when you viewed certain areas and you could switch between them.
 
escargot said:
It might have been that the roads were becoming more dangerous because there were a lot more motor vehicles around than there had been before. They were faster than horses and needed more concentration (not to mention sobriety) to control and to steer round corners.
A driver would most likely come off worse in a collision with a bus.

According to the trustworthy and very interesting Coventry Transport Museum website,





Coventry Transport Museum

Perhaps roads on bus routes in other areas of London and elsewhere were already being altered to accommodate cars and their dangers. Someone will know about that. *

The idea of the ghost bus might have been an expression of fear about the growing dangers on the roads to which the road-widening was a practical response.


* This doesn't seem farfetched to me. In Cheshire where I live miles of hedges were cut down in the 1930s and replaced with black and white painted metal fences to provide better road vision for motorists.

In the '60s when I was growing up many lanes were bare of hedges and there were only the easily-climbable fences. The farmers can't have been happy!

These days the hedges have regrown or been replanted and they co-exist with the fences, which are often proudly maintained in their original livery to match the older road signs.

(When we're out on the bikes I notice the hedges/fences in various combinations and sometimes recall how a lane looked with the just the fences. It still seems strange to me when I can remember the bare fences.)
Click to expand...
I just realised how my "Yes, of course a map doesn't tell you..." might sound. What I meant was "Yes, of course. You're correct, a map doesn't tell you....".
 
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Floyd1 said:
I just realised how my "Yes, of course a map doesn't tell you..." might sound. What I meant was "Yes, of course. You're correct, a map doesn't tell you....".
Click to expand...
Yup, a map won't show how high a kerb is or whether the street corner was squared or rounded off. There might even have been trees or benches dotted around.

Looking at the maps you provided I think the street corners look much more rounded. This would help vehicles turn more smoothly.
Google Maps shows this too.
 
escargot said:
It might have been that the roads were becoming more dangerous because there were a lot more motor vehicles around than there had been before. They were faster than horses and needed more concentration (not to mention sobriety) to control and to steer round corners.
A driver would most likely come off worse in a collision with a bus.

According to the trustworthy and very interesting Coventry Transport Museum website,





Coventry Transport Museum

Perhaps roads on bus routes in other areas of London and elsewhere were already being altered to accommodate cars and their dangers. Someone will know about that. *

The idea of the ghost bus might have been an expression of fear about the growing dangers on the roads to which the road-widening was a practical response.


* This doesn't seem farfetched to me. In Cheshire where I live miles of hedges were cut down in the 1930s and replaced with black and white painted metal fences to provide better road vision for motorists.

In the '60s when I was growing up many lanes were bare of hedges and there were only the easily-climbable fences. The farmers can't have been happy!

These days the hedges have regrown or been replanted and they co-exist with the fences, which are often proudly maintained in their original livery to match the older road signs.

(When we're out on the bikes I notice the hedges/fences in various combinations and sometimes recall how a lane looked with just the fences. Seeing him hedges next to them still seems strange to me when I can remember the bare fences.)
Click to expand...
Reading this has just reminded me. I was out running before Christmas and, on my six mile route there's a very sharp bend with a drive leading up to a farm. An older lady had stopped her car, waiting for her friend, they were going to drive up to the farm as they were staying there. I stood, gasping, turning round to run back, and the lady pointed to the very thick hedging that runs up the driveway. 'How long has that been there?' she asked me. 'Last time I was here it was just fencing.'

Now, she wasn't that old, and it was a thick and well-established hedge, which pretty much answered her question. I just told her truthfully that I've been here nearly thirty years and it's always been hedge as long as I can remember. Maybe she was thinking of somewhere else....
 
catseye said:
Reading this has just reminded me. I was out running before Christmas and, on my six mile route there's a very sharp bend with a drive leading up to a farm. An older lady had stopped her car, waiting for her friend, they were going to drive up to the farm as they were staying there. I stood, gasping, turning round to run back, and the lady pointed to the very thick hedging that runs up the driveway. 'How long has that been there?' she asked me. 'Last time I was here it was just fencing.'

Now, she wasn't that old, and it was a thick and well-established hedge, which pretty much answered her question. I just told her truthfully that I've been here nearly thirty years and it's always been hedge as long as I can remember. Maybe she was thinking of somewhere else....
Click to expand...
Reminds me of the intriguing Guardian Disappearing Trees article that I and others loved so much, from around t'Millennium. :cool:

According to the author there are trees, copses and possibly hedges that grow, vanish and re-appear over the years.
This puzzles people whose perceptions of them appear to vary.

People will swear, as your lady car driver did, that a mature tree wasn't there last time they visited, or that not even a sapling ever grew in the suddenly-overshadowed garden of Oak Trees Cottage.

I need to get into the library and hunt that edition down once and for all.
 
escargot said:
Reminds me of the intriguing Guardian Disappearing Trees article that I and others loved so much, from around t'Millennium. :cool:

According to the author there are trees, copses and possibly hedges that grow, vanish and re-appear over the years.
This puzzles people whose perceptions of them appear to vary.

People will swear, as your lady car driver did, that a mature tree wasn't there last time they visited, or that not even a sapling ever grew in the suddenly-overshadowed garden of Oak Trees Cottage.

I need to get into the library and hunt that edition down once and for all.
Click to expand...
I wonder if a lot of this is just down to mental conflation. When thinking of a place there's a kind of mental template which may be faulty, and it gets overlaid with other images. So, just as going back to a place they used to know well, people exclaim that it's a lot smaller or darker than they remembered, maybe we tend to remember places as either more 'open' - no trees or hedges - or more 'closed in' with trees everywhere. Plus there's the 'remembering one place whilst thinking of another'.

In my case, there's a stretch of hedging that's a little less old than the rest, where I suspect a gateway has been planted, probably access is gained from somewhere else now. So I think the lady may have been remembering a gate and extrapolating it to the entire stretch as a fence. When it's always been hedging.
 
catseye said:
I wonder if a lot of this is just down to mental conflation. When thinking of a place there's a kind of mental template which may be faulty, and it gets overlaid with other images. So, just as going back to a place they used to know well, people exclaim that it's a lot smaller or darker than they remembered, maybe we tend to remember places as either more 'open' - no trees or hedges - or more 'closed in' with trees everywhere. Plus there's the 'remembering one place whilst thinking of another'.

In my case, there's a stretch of hedging that's a little less old than the rest, where I suspect a gateway has been planted, probably access is gained from somewhere else now. So I think the lady may have been remembering a gate and extrapolating it to the entire stretch as a fence. When it's always been hedging.
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When we're out cycling the Cheshire lanes we see lots of farm and hedges with overgrown wooden or metalwork gates embedded in them, sometimes with a leafy arch still visible over the top.

My assumption is that these were the front entrances to the farmhouse grounds back when they'd be safe to use. These days you'd be splattered by the milk truck or a horse box, not to mention the local boy racers in their Dads' 4WD monsters.

I reckon ghosts still use them. :nods:
Ghost gates.
As you say, hedges, gates and boundaries change. We remember them as they were.
 
escargot said:
When we're out cycling the Cheshire lanes we see lots of farm and hedges with overgrown wooden or metalwork gates embedded in them, sometimes with a leafy arch still visible over the top.

My assumption is that these were the front entrances to the farmhouse grounds back when they'd be safe to use. These days you'd be splattered by the milk truck or a horse box, not to mention the local boy racers in their Dads' 4WD monsters.

I reckon ghosts still use them. :nods:
Ghost gates.
As you say, hedges, gates and boundaries change. We remember them as they were.
Click to expand...
There are a great many abandoned entrances to the old estates that can be spotted when out in the British countryside, with ornate pillars and/or arches and often a gate house, too. Back in the day the large manor houses boasted three or four driveways, often for no other reason than to show off.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
There are a great many abandoned entrances to the old estates that can be spotted when out in the British countryside, with ornate pillars and/or arches and often a gate house, too. Back in the day the large manor houses boasted three or four driveways, often for no other reason than to show off.
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You knew you were mixing with the nobs when you took your child to a party in a house that had its own gatehouse. Happened to me at least twice!
 
Here's a nice :bump:for @IbisNibs.

My Photobucket account has gone West along with the photos of the relevant book pages I posted here.

Fear not, for I came across that very tome yesterday while tipping out my studio/cluttered spare room and will take more photos for your delectation and elucidation.
 
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