The Galleon In The Desert

[BS3]

I can't find an existing thread for this type of story (beyond a general 'shipwrecks' thread) but please feel free to move this if there is one.

There seem to be a large number of tales of old ships found in the southern deserts of the US, usually (though not exclusively) purported to be Spanish treasure ships. The accounts mostly date from the mid 19th century to early 20th century, some of which are collected below:

https://www.klaxo.net/hofc/other/lostship.htm

I find these very interesting from a folklore perspective, though I suppose they originate from that era when local newspapers often went in for increasingly outlandish tall tales. The most recent supposed 'sighting' is as late as the 1970s.

As well as the familiar motifs of the 'found treasure then lost again' and the out of place object, I also wonder if they serve as a sort of narrative commemoration of the Spanish presence in the area.

 

[SimonBurchell]

Another reason for these tales is the perennial hope of getting rich quick... just one more treasure hunt, then this tough, bitter life will be behind for good...

 

[BS3]

There's some evidence that the stories might have developed from a real, much smaller boat that was constructed for a prospecting venture, hauled overland, and then abandoned in the middle of nowhere.

The motif crops up in other contexts, too. Fans of Gabriel Garcia Marquez will recall the orchid-festooned Spanish galleon found in the jungle in One Hundred Years of Solitude. In more recent times people going into the southwestern deserts seem more likely to have found crashed flying saucers instead.

 

[Tunn11]

in more recent times people going into the southwestern deserts seem more likely to have found crashed flying saucers instead.

They probably disguised the UFOs as galleons to fit in with the 15th century technology and they got stuck when they crashed. They then moved on to looking like airships and then saucers.
No, I’m not being serious.

 

[EnolaGaia]

This legend was the subject of one of the earliest strange TV episodes that fostered my interest in legends and Fortean things.

A 1959 episode of the TV western Bat Masterson was centered around a treasure-laden Spanish galleon that sank in the Colorado River, was buried by shifting sands, and hadn't been found. In the course of the episode the characters actually found the legendary galleon.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0519352/?ref_=ttqt_qt_tt

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Clive Cussler explored this meme in one of his Dirk Pitt thrillers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_(novel)

 

[EnolaGaia]

This blog page:

http://the-wanderling.com/desert_ship.html

.. provides a number of tidbits about lost ships in the southwestern region and deserts, including Chinese junks and even a Viking longship.

One of the links off this page leads to an overview article by Vincent Gaddis (of Bermuda Triangle fame) from the January 1973 issue of FATE:

http://the-wanderling.com/fate_1973.html

 

[JahaRa]

This legend was the subject of one of the earliest strange TV episodes that fostered my interest in legends and Fortean things.

A 1959 episode of the TV western Bat Masterson was centered around a treasure-laden Spanish galleon that sank in the Colorado River, was buried by shifting sands, and hadn't been found. In the course of the episode the characters actually found the legendary galleon.

That makes me laugh! How did they get the ship up the colorado river? Did they go up to Utah and build it then put it in the river.

I am going to look for Bat Masterson and that episode this weekend.

 

[BS3]

This blog page:

http://the-wanderling.com/desert_ship.html

.. provides a number of tidbits about lost ships in the southwestern region and deserts, including Chinese junks and even a Viking longship.

One of the links off this page leads to an overview article by Vincent Gaddis (of Bermuda Triangle fame) from the January 1973 issue of FATE:

http://the-wanderling.com/fate_1973.html

I'd never heard of the junk variation, this is brilliant.

I suppose the longship feeds into the whole 'lost Viking / Welsh / whoever in the pre-Columbus America' myth

 

[SimonBurchell]

That makes me laugh! How did they get the ship up the colorado river? Did they go up to Utah and build it then put it in the river.

I am going to look for Bat Masterson and that episode this weekend.

I believe the Colorado River was navigable from its mouth at the time of Spanish contact, subsequent human activity has drastically reduced the flow.

 

[EnolaGaia]

That makes me laugh! How did they get the ship up the colorado river? Did they go up to Utah and build it then put it in the river.

In times past, the Colorado River was navigable surprisingly far upstream from its mouth at the head of the Gulf of California. In 1852 a steamboat managed to reach the area of Davis Dam (the Laughlin, Nevada, area).

I doubt an ocean-going galleon could have penetrated very far upstream from the river's mouth, but it would have been possible for smaller boats to travel pretty far into the interior.

More recently, the majority of the river's overall flow has been dammed and / or diverted for irrigation. The Colorado of centuries past was a deeper river than the version we've known during our lifetimes.

 

[JahaRa]

I believe the Colorado River was navigable from its mouth at the time of Spanish contact, subsequent human activity has drastically reduced the flow.

When you say "its mouth" do you mean where it flows in to the ocean? You might not be familiar with the terrain that it travels and that hasn't changed much in 500 years except where people have changed it. How far up river do you think a ship could go on that rivier?

 

[EnolaGaia]

According to a post in a southwestern essay and folklore forum the desert southwest focused periodical Calico Print collected several Lost Ship articles / stories into one of its last issues (November 1953) during its 1950s incarnation:

The November 1953 issue of "Calico Print" pages 31 to 42 contain several different stories. ...

The main story is by desert writers, one-time owners of Desert Magazine, and long ago acquaintance of ours, Lucile & Harold Weight. Lucile is the Lucile Harris you'll see on the early issues of Desert Magazine. Second story "A Ghost of the Vikings?" by Paul Wilhelm. Third, "Mystery of the Desert" by J.A. Guthrie. Those of you who follow desert writers of the 50s & 60s would guess that L. Burr Belden would have to have a story, this time it's "The Lost Spanish Galleon." There are three additional articles, "The Quest for the Lost Ship" San Bernardion Guardian, and "The Serpent-Necked Canoa" by Ed Stevens followed by "Butcherknife Ike and the Lost Ship" by Adelaide Arnold.

Lastly, the Desert Magazine Subject Index shows the January 1939, March 1977, and March 1966 also have Lost Ship stories.

SOURCE: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=93563

 

[SimonBurchell]

When you say "its mouth" do you mean where it flows in to the ocean? You might not be familiar with the terrain that it travels and that hasn't changed much in 500 years except where people have changed it. How far up river do you think a ship could go on that rivier?

The Spanish were a pretty persistent bunch, and were well able to knock up smaller craft in the field when necessary to further the causes of their expeditions, and portage them over long distances when necessary. If they had a decent supply line, they could just keep going. If they didn't, and they believed there was respite ahead, they could keep going anyway until they fell to hostile indigenous populations, mutiny or starvation.

 

[JahaRa]

The Spanish were a pretty persistent bunch, and were well able to knock up smaller craft in the field when necessary to further the causes of their expeditions, and portage them over long distances when necessary. If they had a decent supply line, they could just keep going. If they didn't, and they believed there was respite ahead, they could keep going anyway until they fell to hostile indigenous populations, mutiny or starvation.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[SimonBurchell]

You didn't answer my question.

Yes, from the ocean.

 

[EnolaGaia]

I've found two separate collections of vintage articles concerning the Lost Ship legend.

These collections overlap in their contents, but there's at least one instance in which a single title / author is cited for two distinct articles, depending on which collection you view.

---

(1) THE LARGER COLLECTION (Calico Press, 1959)

In 1959 southwestern / desert specialty publishers Calico Press issued a booklet containing 9 stories about the Lost Ship:

LOST SHIP OF THE DESERT: A Legend of the Southwest
By HAROLD O. WEIGHT

The complete collection can be accessed at: https://www.klaxo.net/hofc/other/lostship3.htm

---

(2) THE SECOND / SMALLER COLLECTION (RV Journal, date unknown)

A re-hosted old webpage from RV Journal provides links to another webpage containing 7 vintage articles about the various versions of the Lost Ship legend(s).

Here's the intro / explanation:

We have received several letters from readers who are fascinated with the legendary Ships in the Sand. Reports and articles from as far back as 1939 have been forwarded to us. ...
One thing for sure, many people believe such a ship exists and no two accounts are exactly alike. Although the theories of how or why such a ship became land locked are all similar.
Some claim it was a Spanish Galleon, or an English pirate ship and even one report claims the ship was equipped with shields along its side. Come on ... !

https://www.klaxo.net/hofc/other/rvj-saltonsea4.html

And here's the listing of stories with hot links to each of them (on the single webpage):

---

In any event the stories are entertaining and intriguing so we are retyping them for everyone to enjoy. Click on each individual title.
The Lost Spanish Galleon by L. Burr Belden, Nov 1953 Calico Print
Butcherknife Ike and the Lost Ship by Adelaide Arnold, Nov 1953 Calico Print
Phantom Ship of the Gran Desierto by Harvey Gray, Apr 1974 Desert Magazine
Charley Clusker and the Lost Ship by Harold O. Weight, Mar 1977 Desert Magazine
Lost Ships: Fact or Fiction, editorial, Jan 1939 Desert Magazine
Lost Ship of the Desert by Charles C. Niehus, Jan 1939 Desert Magazine
Lost Ships of the Desert by Bill Boyd, Mar 1966 Desert Magazine

WEBPAGE WITH ALL THESE STORIES: https://www.klaxo.net/hofc/other/rvj-lost-ship.htm

 

[EnolaGaia]

The Wikipedia article about the Lost Ship legend includes a large listing of published accounts, dating back to newspaper stories in the late 19th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Ship_of_the_Desert

 

[JahaRa]

Yes, from the ocean.

OK. Have you ever been to the grand canyon? It has not changed much in 500 years. If the ship was found before it got that far I could belive the stories but the rapids and water falls would make it impossible to get a ship further than the south western edge of the grand canyon especially without an engine to help.

 

[SimonBurchell]

OK. Have you ever been to the grand canyon? It has not changed much in 500 years. If the ship was found before it got that far I could belive the stories but the rapids and water falls would make it impossible to get a ship further than the south western edge of the grand canyon especially without an engine to help.

Which is why they would portage.

 

[EnolaGaia]

OK. Have you ever been to the grand canyon? It has not changed much in 500 years. If the ship was found before it got that far I could belive the stories but the rapids and water falls would make it impossible to get a ship further than the south western edge of the grand canyon especially without an engine to help.

No - none of the many versions of the legend (I've seen ... ) claim or even suggest the Lost Ship traveled as far upstream as the Grand Canyon.

Most of the popular / paranormal versions of the story (19th century onward) place the Lost Ship's location somewhere in the desert(s) of extreme southeastern California - specifically in the areas of the Salton Sea or more generally the Salton Sink / Salton Trough (depression in which the Salton Sea lies). When flooding, the Colorado River has been known to overflow into the Salton Trough at times during the 19th and 20th centuries.

Other versions claim the Lost Ship was sighted in or around the Laguna Salada - a desert lake in the Baja region of Mexico, just south of the border.

There are also versions of the story that place the Lost Ship somewhere in the Colorado River delta / estuary area at the head of the Gulf of California.

 

[SimonBurchell]

It wouldn't take much to get a rumour like that running... someone finding some Spanish relics, some coins, a corpse and a musket, and exaggeration will do the rest, especially on the frontier.

 

[JahaRa]

No - none of the many versions of the legend (I've seen ... ) claim or even suggest the Lost Ship traveled as far upstream as the Grand Canyon.

Most of the popular / paranormal versions of the story (19th century onward) place the Lost Ship's location somewhere in the desert(s) of extreme southeastern California - specifically in the areas of the Salton Sea or more generally the Salton Sink / Salton Trough (depression in which the Salton Sea lies). When flooding, the Colorado River has been known to overflow into the Salton Trough at times during the 19th and 20th centuries.

Other versions claim the Lost Ship was sighted in or around the Laguna Salada - a desert lake in the Baja region of Mexico, just south of the border.

There are also versions of the story that place the Lost Ship somewhere in the Colorado River delta / estuary area at the head of the Gulf of California.

That makes more sense. If they took a ship up the colorado river it did not get very far, and their goal was further up the California coast but on the east side of the mountains instead of the west side by the ocean. If they were going east it would be pretty rough, but makes sense. I grew up in New Mexico and the first Spaniards came from Florida or what we call the gulf of Mexico not from the west. Later they went south to what is called Mexico city, but by then they had started colonizing California as well.

 

[BS3]

I've found two separate collections of vintage articles concerning the Lost Ship legend.

These collections overlap in their contents, but there's at least one instance in which a single title / author is cited for two distinct articles, depending on which collection you view.

---

(1) THE LARGER COLLECTION (Calico Press, 1959)

In 1959 southwestern / desert specialty publishers Calico Press issued a booklet containing 9 stories about the Lost Ship:

LOST SHIP OF THE DESERT: A Legend of the Southwest
By HAROLD O. WEIGHT

The complete collection can be accessed at: https://www.klaxo.net/hofc/other/lostship3.htm

---

(2) THE SECOND / SMALLER COLLECTION (RV Journal, date unknown)

A re-hosted old webpage from RV Journal provides links to another webpage containing 7 vintage articles about the various versions of the Lost Ship legend(s).

Here's the intro / explanation:

https://www.klaxo.net/hofc/other/rvj-saltonsea4.html

And here's the listing of stories with hot links to each of them (on the single webpage):

---

In any event the stories are entertaining and intriguing so we are retyping them for everyone to enjoy. Click on each individual title.
The Lost Spanish Galleon by L. Burr Belden, Nov 1953 Calico Print
Butcherknife Ike and the Lost Ship by Adelaide Arnold, Nov 1953 Calico Print
Phantom Ship of the Gran Desierto by Harvey Gray, Apr 1974 Desert Magazine
Charley Clusker and the Lost Ship by Harold O. Weight, Mar 1977 Desert Magazine
Lost Ships: Fact or Fiction, editorial, Jan 1939 Desert Magazine
Lost Ship of the Desert by Charles C. Niehus, Jan 1939 Desert Magazine
Lost Ships of the Desert by Bill Boyd, Mar 1966 Desert Magazine

WEBPAGE WITH ALL THESE STORIES: https://www.klaxo.net/hofc/other/rvj-lost-ship.htm

Something makes me very suspicious of the Myrtle Botts story of seeing a 'Viking ship' in Canebrake Canyon. Niehaus' 1951 article in the Weight collection says that Botts met an old prospector who mentioned the ship and showed her photographs. In this version, Botts does not go on to see it herself, though she is stated to have researched what the photographs showed: "Nor did yearly searches that the Botts made uncover the ancient wreck".

In later retellings, Botts and her husband follow the prospector's directions and see the ship, but it is (conveniently) buried by the 1933 earthquake before she can return with a camera. In some versions the earthquake takes place immediately on them leaving the canyon, in others it takes place in some interim period while she's researching the ship's appearance in the library where she worked.

It's all a bit all over the place given that the Botts story is sometimes presented as slightly more credible than the earlier 'lost galleon' stories. I suspect it was a yarn spun by Botts herself and elaborated over the years as she retold it - and a very good yarn it is too.