The Gift of Realization

Afagddu

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#1
The other week I was ill and a little delirious. I was thinking about theories of quantum consciousness and spacetime geometry (stay with me) on the lines of Penrose and Hameroff's OrchOR theory (worth looking up!) and quite suddenly I had a vision of 'life, the universe and everything' and how everything fitted together.

I won't go into the details here, but it was very profound, and unified my own mind, life and existence with the Universe and everything in it. I saw that there is ONLY consciousness, and that everything is merely a product of consciousness (matter, gravity, everything) and I saw how all scientific experimentation to discover fundamental truths of the universe are pointless because we only end up finding out about our own individual conscious experience of existence (c/f quantum physics). I saw that we are all 'polyps' of God (the Universe) and that we are essentially the Universe experiencing exisitence to find out what existence is for. It is both personalised for everyone and at the same time a basic truth common to all. I have a vague knowledge of Buddhism and Hinduism and the similarities between my science based approach and eastern mysticism seemed uncanny. I could go on (and on...ahem!).

Anyway, over and over in my mind the word REALIZATION kept repeating, over and over and I eventually remembered many years ago sending away for the 'Gift of realization' in Old Moore's Almanack. I had filled in and posted off a form to an organisation called 'The Rosicrucians' and expected to recieve a 'full information pack'. Anyway, I never did recieve anything and forgot all about it. Until this episode that is.

Once I was well again, I thought I'd look up the Rosicrucians on the internet, just to see if there was any correlation between my 'vision' and their beliefs. As it turned out they were very very similar to what my vision of 'life the universe and everything' was.

I am left feeling that maybe I did get my 'full information pack' after all. It just wasn't quite what I expected! It has actually left me a little 'shaken'.

Anyone else ever send away for 'the gift of realization'?

P.S. I'm not trying to recruit anyone into a cult. I am not a rosicrucian!
 

Blinko_Glick

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#2
Note: inappropiate flippant comment coming up:


Reminds me of the Buddhist monk who walks into pizzahut and says 'make me one with everything'. 8)
 

uair01

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#4
Wow. But ... is the experience something that can be expressed in clear terms, like theory, or is it more of a feeling? I once had a dream where I read a book that told "how everything really works", but when I woke up, I of course remembered nothing concrete. Just the feeling of "having understood everything". I believe that feeling is something our mind can call up relatively easily, but I wonder if it can provide the substance that should go with the feeling :)
 

tracyk3337

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#5
"Anyone else ever send away for 'the gift of realization'?"

I have! But I didn't actually send away for it - it just arrived.

I know nothing about the theories of quantum consciousness and spacetime geometry - I'm quite simple in my understanding of things.

But I did have an experience where my understanding of the universe and of my own existence felt, for a brief time, total and complete. As you said - it felt like a revelation - or realisation.

I have attempted to describe the experience elsewhere on the board. I don't feel I adequately explained or described it as there was just too much happening. It just felt as if consciousness is superior to the physical world as we know it (something like that)......

I'm now back to normal (and at the same time completely altered) And I can ony see it as an incredibly positive thing
 

Cavynaut

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#6
The fact that you were ill at the time makes me think of "Alice In Wonderland" syndrome. There is a thread about it on here somewhere. I mention it because I've had a similar experience myself.
 

linesmachine

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#7
I think what you experienced is actually not that unsual. Twice in my life I have had something (although not as trippy) happen to me. I will briefly explain one of these episodes and I would be interested to hear if it is similar to what you had.

I was driving along listening to BBC radio 4. They were talking about British economics, the interest rate and the involvment of the Bank of England. I kinda lost track and stopped listening directly to the presenters but my mind kinda went off on a tangent. In a split second I experienced an incredible "view" of World economics, the relationships between currencies, interest rates and inflation. But it was if my brain couldn't cope with it and at the end of the split second I was overcome all light headed, as if my brain basically shut down coz it couldn't deal with the level at which it was operating.

Clearly my brain power is limited! Is that similar to what you had?
 

eris1369

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#8
I once had a dream where I read a book that told "how everything really works", but when I woke up, I of course remembered nothing concrete

I've read that book, too!!! I remember waking up on the couch & looking for the book, thinking I must've dropped it when i fell asleep-it was so real to me that I got upset when I asked my Mom where it went & she kept insisting that I hadn't been reading anything (I think I was about 12 at the time).
 

decipheringscars

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#9
Similar feelings can be had during the "expansiveness" of mania.

I'm only just beginning to study the thought of Charles Sanders Peirce, but as I understand it his thought either explicitly or implicitly supports seeing the universe as "mindstuff". He was a scientist and very rigorous logician. Have you studied him at all?
 

spellbound

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#10
Yes, sadly, it's all mundane and is classic in the realms of the brain's activity and mania. The "Fine line between genius and mad'person'" can be easily stepped betwixt, and is often done. Typically, nothing comes of it. Nothing productive specifically. Sometimes the person becomes more self aware and positive, but nevertheless, unable to gain any solid results from what they imagined.
Many a mad scientist/inventor has fallen. Many a religious cult or zealot become of this type of experience.
 

_Lizard23_

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#11
What?

Betwixt?!

I reckon 'all-is-one', 'all-is-consciousness', 'things are for the joy of being' is probably the all time number one non-denominational 'spiritual revelation' there is, which in itself makes it interesting. I wonder if it is a kind of projected solipsism, the mind going 'hang on ..... the whole world is me!'

I've had it too:
"Split me from the godhead and hurl me once more through the funhouse".

I bet number two is 'the end of the world is coming' - it's the people who get that one and interpret it as literally true and relevant outside their own heads that seem to cause most trouble, number one usually just makes you a bit of a hippy ;)
 

Zilch5

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#12
I've sorta kinda been there...once...

I had a very bad flu and high fever - all the world seemed to be made of stringy stuff - interwoven and impossible to explain. Never talked to anyone about it. Then years later I read about modern physics and went "Hmmm..."

There is no point talking about it unless you want to become a mystic. I'm not really suited for that job description.
 

_Lizard23_

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#13
I've twice had fever-dreams that involved complex tangles, the first many years ago, when I had the flu, involved there being (me being?) a rather sinister tall ship, the wood of which had somehow grown into an unrecognisable, impossibly complex vast fractal tangle of twigs and tendrils, and I had to reorganise it back into solid planks, like untying the world's most complicated knot. I did consider afterwards that maybe some part of me was somehow making it known it had a difficult task to do, like my immune system fighting the bug, but it didn't really make much sense. Although having just written the rest of this post and used the word 'oceanic' maybe being a ship makes a kind of sense - a represtentatio of my 'polyp' as the original poster said.

The second was a couple of years ago with a severe acute attack of food poisoning in India, when I spent three days and night utterly delirious, unable to even keep down water, hardly knowing where I was. That time my feet turned into a mass of roots, all intertwined, stretching out to infinity, growing and growing, and this was incredibly painful, my legs felt like they were on fire. That time, when I recovered I found that the heat-induced oedema in my ankles (basically water retention) was completely gone and I was very impressed that my 'trip' seemed to have a pretty straight forward symbolic message - 'getting water from your feet'.

My 'oceanic' experience was induced deliberately and was of a different nature, much less Tim Burton and much more ineffable. I don't think you need to either be a mystic or forget about it. The 'all-is-one' and 'all-is-consciousness' are arguably scientifically 'true', even without getting too mired in quantum physics, and it's psychologically interesting that it is such a relatively common phenomenon, appearing in many belief systems, and spontaneously in people in 'altered' mental states.
 

Afagddu

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#14
uair01 said:
Wow. But ... is the experience something that can be expressed in clear terms, like theory, or is it more of a feeling? I once had a dream where I read a book that told "how everything really works", but when I woke up, I of course remembered nothing concrete. Just the feeling of "having understood everything". I believe that feeling is something our mind can call up relatively easily, but I wonder if it can provide the substance that should go with the feeling :)
Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback. I shall return and say more soon, but am sanding a floor right now and my girlfriend wants this done!

However, just to answer uair01 above, it is more than one of those dreams - I have had them too (but not on this vision) - and does have more substance than just a feeling. Although I am sure some of the science backs up the 'vision' I am certain it's full of some pseudoscientific leaps of faith. Nonetheless, I kinda feel it's pointing in the right direction and that in my lifetime I shall see more and more evidence emerge that consciousness is fundamental to the universe itself, and our minds are inextricably linked to it.

Also, I find the fact that such visions being quite common as some you have indicated above important. Maybe it is an indication that underneath it all there is some fundamental 'truth' common to all.

More to follow!
 

Afagddu

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#16
OK here goes:

There is only one fundamental property of the universe, and that is consciousness. Conciousness IS the universe (some may prefer to say God). The universe has no idea what it is for. During the big bang it became conscious (look up the Big Wow theory on the net). Matter does not really exist. It is purely divisions in consciousness. Space and time are divisions in conciousness. Lots, possibly infinite fractal divisions in consciousness creates what we call matter/energy (much the same thing).

Matter halts the expansion of space thus creates the phenomenon we know as time. Time prevents all things happening all at once. This gives the universe a chance to figure out what its for. (Gravity is an effect of time slowing around matter).

Matter creates stars, galaxies, planets, and ultimately life. Life has evolved and created lifeforms that can utilize consciousness. Human brains utilize consciousness in the same way that eyes utilize light, ears sound, etc.

We are tuned in to the consciousness of the universe. We are, all of us, truly part of the universe/god. Our consciousness is one and the same as the universe's consciousness. Our experience IS the experience of the universe. Through conscious life the universe experiences existence in a way that can give it purpose. Conscious beings can give the universe a purpose else it has none, and that scares the universe to death. Except the universe cannot die, so would have to live for eternity alone without purpose. This would be hell. It is our duty to the universe (and ultimately to ourselves, as we are avatars of the universe) to give existence a purpose. Our own individual purposes are the only purposes that exist. The universe wants US to be happy, as it wants IT be happy. The universe wants us to experience itself and enjoy it. There is no death, so 'death' is no escape, so we must for the sake of ourselves and the universe (same thing) enjoy life and its experiences. What we call death is OK, our consciousness lives forever (although we may lose our life-constructed/gene determined personalities when we die - but our 'souls' live forever). Suffering is a take on a situation and is just an outcome of life and consciousness, but it doesn't last forever. The only suffering that can last forever is that of the universe being alone and having no purpose. So, enjoy life and give it some meaning and you'll be doing everything in the universe a favour. Goodness, kindess and happiness are really important! The universe really likes these concepts.

God, what a load of crap! Tis true though I tell you!

I probably have not explained it very well, and have probably missed a lot out. The context of all this is heavily based on Quantum mechanics and it's possible role in consciousness (and vice versa).

Since my vision I have been looking things up on the web so for those that wish to know a little bit more about the subject some links and things to look up are below:

On youtube:

Start here - where it all began:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld3vWoVeJcM


Which is from:
'What the bleep do we know' (watched this yesterday - parts of it are excellent):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSk51Lpv ... L&index=14

Also:

Dr. Stuart Hammeroff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4y8mTRqXAo

Dr. Amit Godswami: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s42mrdhKwRA

Also see:

Gao, Mr Shan (2004) Quantum, consciousness and panpsychism: a solution to the hard problem.

http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/

Quantum physics is THE most wierd thing there is - more wierd than ghosts, nessie, telepathy, UFOs! Totally Fortean!
 

tracyk3337

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#17
It is indeed more spooky than anything!

It's interesting what you said about time - that it prevents everything happening at once.

During my "episode" I had the sensation of being in two places at the same time. It was as if I had almost dropped my physical existence - I was perceiving things from two or more perspectives. My physical self was subject to the passing of time in the conventional way - seconds, minutes, hours, etc. but the other version of myself could occupy a vast area. Almost as if time didn't really exist.

SO weird.

It's fascinating to read about your experience
 

Gemaki

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#18
This is a subject that is becoming more and more important to me, so thanks for starting this thread! I've seen 'What The Bleep Do We Know' and loved it. I've struggled for years to figure out the importance of religions to people, I find it so interesting but few wish to discuss it openly. What really bothers me is that if people here find out you question God, it's like a personal insult to them.

I have questions! GEEZ! :roll:

I'll be checking out your links and waiting for my 'the gift of realization' ... :?
 

rynner2

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#19
Part of the Moon Landing anniversary coverage:

Edgar Mitchell, a native of Hereford, Texas, is now 79. He was slated to fly on the ill-fated Apollo 13, but made it to the moon in early 1971, as the lunar module pilot on Apollo 14.

....

"Every mission had its problems," says Mitchell. "It was just a matter of backup systems, and training, training, training. The fact that we did have some severe problems and we successfully worked around them and landed anyhow - that was a tribute to the fact that the whole darn team was oriented towards overcoming failure. We had to have that attitude. If you were really fearful, you couldn't do your job."

For 10 minutes or so, such level-headedness defines our conversation. When it comes to the lunar environment, the most I can get out of him is a brief description of the moon's "eerie beauty". Sleep, he says, was "fitful", and when he and Shepard [...] prepared for takeoff, he felt a "a certain nostalgia", based on the realisation that he would not be going back.

But when I ask him about the journey home, out it all comes: the epiphany that dawned on him as he looked out of his spacecraft's windows. "Coming home, we had jobs to do, but whenever we got to look out of the window . . . It's an overwhelming experience. It was accompanied by this bliss, or ecstasy - a 'wow' experience . . . and I didn't understand where this was coming from: why should I be having this experience like this? I realised that the molecules of my body, and the molecules of the spacecraft, and the molecules of my partners had been manufactured as prototypes in some ancient generation of stars, because matter is created in star systems. But instead of being an intellectual understanding, it was suddenly a personal, visceral experience: those were my molecules, and they'd been made in those star systems."

Two years after Mitchell came back to Earth, he established the Institute of Noetic Sciences, dedicated to research in such areas as parapsychology, "distance healing" and the uses of meditation. He is now certain not only of the existence of aliens, but the fact that their visits to Earth have been covered up - though he reckons that we will all know about such things "within the next decade".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/ ... ene-cernan
 

ZenDoc

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#20
Yes, believe you are correct.

I am not as well studied in quantum physics as you are, but have come to more or less the same conclusions. Have not had the realization experience you have but at least know it intellectually. I have always believed that honest pursuits of science and spirituality must come to the same point, and so it has. The paradigm you state pretty much explains most unusual phenomena, such as telepathy and clairvoyance. Since all consciousness is really one consciousness and since space, time, mass and energy proceed from this consciousness then being actively more integral with this consciousness opens up all possibilities. This is often the endpoint of many religious efforts. I am most familiar with Christianity so I will use 2 paraphrased biblical quotes to illustrate. Jesus said “seek first the Kingdom of Heaven and then all things will be added unto you.” Also, “If you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can tell the mountain to jump into the ocean and it will do so”. This faith, or convicted belief is the key. Knowing unconditionally is the way. All the self help stuff is also a faint realization of this. There are more secular examples such as “Think and Grow Rich”. We get so distracted by our day to day activities that we rarely get to the point of having this faith, without doubt. Working on it….
 

ZenDoc

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#21
BTW have read Gotswami, but suggest that if someone wants to that they buy a big bottle of ibuprophen first!
 

Afagddu

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#22
Re: Yes, believe you are correct.

ZenDoc, from what you say I know you know! Indeed, belief is everything, but it's hard to convince ourselves and rid ourselves of doubt - that's why we can't do, say, magic - it's cos we don't belief we can!
 

Mouldy13

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#23
Blinko_Glick said:
Note: inappropiate flippant comment coming up:


Reminds me of the Buddhist monk who walks into pizzahut and says 'make me one with everything'. 8)
then pays and stands there, the vendor says "what you waiting for?"
"the change" replies the monk
"change must come from within" winks the vendor ;)
 
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