The Gods Are Mad

[flannel]

The counterweight slid down one side of the pyramid and a sled full of stones was pulled up the other side.

The pyramid would have to already be a good size to use this method.

Also, can you try to explain what you think the gravimetric scan shows and what you think the triangles on the side of the pyramids signify (I think you refer to them as chevrons).

 

[Spookdaddy]

The pyramid would have to already be a good size to use this method...

It would. And once it had reached such a size, I'm not sure that I understand how you would rig the counterweight.

I mean - for the counterweight to work it has to be in the 'up' setting before the load can be set and then raised. Once the counterweight is in the 'down' setting - the raised load is then removed, leaving the counterweight with no counter-load of its own, and therefore no means of being raised. How do you get the counterweight back to the 'up' setting for the next load? And if there's another process for raising the counterweight, then why not simply use this to bring the actual load up in the first place?

Or am I missing something?

 

[Amergin]

It would. And once it had reached such a size, I'm not sure that I understand how you would rig the counterweight.

I mean - for the counterweight to work it has to be in the 'up' setting before the load can be set and then raised. Once the counterweight is in the 'down' setting - the raised load is then removed, leaving the counterweight with no counter-load of its own, and therefore no means of being raised. How do you get the counterweight back to the 'up' setting for the next load? And if there's another process for raising the counterweight, then why not simply use this to bring the actual load up in the first place?

Or am I missing something?

I actually thought this wasn’t a very new idea, and it has flaws such as those pointed out by yourself and flannel. I did read one neat detail though which gets around the issue of resetting the counterweight. Counterweights can be anything, so sand, water, or more simply people in a basket. People continuously climb into the basket at a high point on the pyramid, get out at the bottom, then return to the top on foot to serve as counterweights again. A similar approach will work with a simple pulley system more generally, crane, or whatever.

 

[Spookdaddy]

I actually thought this wasn’t a very new idea, and it has flaws such as those pointed out by yourself and flannel. I did read one neat detail though which gets around the issue of resetting the counterweight. Counterweights can be anything, so sand, water, or more simply people in a basket. People continuously climb into the basket at a high point on the pyramid, get out at the bottom, then return to the top on foot to serve as counterweights again. A similar approach will work with a simple pulley system more generally, crane, or whatever.

The fact that there were alternatives to inert ballast crossed my mind the instant I posted (should say, I know absolutely nothing about the pyramids and their construction). It seems to me though that given the tendency to inertia in such a system that the counterweight would have to be very significantly greater than the load itself.

Has anyone, I wonder, calculated how many men it would take to make such a system work (if we assume that humans acted as ballast) - and how that figure compares to other suggested techniques where man was the prime mover.

 

[Amergin]

The fact that there were alternatives to inert ballast crossed my mind the instant I posted (should say, I know absolutely nothing about the pyramids and their construction). It seems to me though that given the tendency to inertia in such a system that the counterweight would have to be very significantly greater than the load itself.

Also, once inertia and friction is overcome, the counterweight accelerates. I wouldn’t want to be the dead weight in that basket accelerating towards the ground! So the system would require a governor mechanism to moderate the descent. In the absence of any illustrations or other evidence of pulleys, cables, and mechanical devices along these lines, then all this can only ever be speculation.

 

[stu neville]

Well, I think Mummyknave's theory is that they used water as the counterweight, piped up to the top from geysers that aren't there any more (which would be better than a big chain of people with buckets, or another counterweight system to lift the water to operate the first one.)

 

[mummyknave]

The pyramid would have to already be a good size to use this method.

I'm losing a little interest in defending this here. I'll stick around but might not defend this theory much longer.

I actually know a great deal more about exactly how the pyramid was built then I've ever let on. A great number of details emerge from reverse engineering it than anyone would think but when I provide any details the attitude its how can I possibly know anythi8ng when Egyptologists are still running around like a chicken with it's head cut off bleating about how it mustta been ramps.

Yes. Counterweights are much less efficient at low altitude which is why the built the east side of the first step first. When construction began they could only use the cliff face counterweights to pull stones up from the quarries and into a pile. The western cliff face counterweight did the lions share of the work at first but once the step got to about 30' on the east side they started using the main eastern pyramid counterweight as well. By the time they had this well underway the western main western pyramid counterweight started on the west side of the first step. After this they built very evenly except for filling in the step tops which went in where there was no activity activity first.

Also, can you try to explain what you think the gravimetric scan shows

It shows that the pyramid is a five step structure just as the builders said it was (five fingers of geb)(geb is the earth and the pyramid was geb). It was impossible to build any great pyramid without a platform from which to work. The platforms are the step tops.

Step tops show up at 81' 3" intervals on the gravimetric scan because step tops were very solidly built. They were denser. The scan can see the short distance into the pyramid where the tops are barely covered by backing stones. They show up as horizontal lines 81' apart. Due to the way the counterweights were configured the actual step tops had to come in about 25" under multiples of 81' 3". You can think of the 25" as frictional losses but this isn't entirely accurate. The pyramid on top of the top step is smaller.

It shows a great deal more but these are details nobody could possibly know like the sand in the walls and the heat anomalies predicted by them. It also shows a massive time capsule underneath but everyone ignores me because I'm the only one who makes accurate predictions like their word "prophet" actually meant a scientist who can make predictions.

Nobody can argue against "they mustta used ramps". This is pure genius that has stood the test of time for over a century and will last another century unless someone gets Egyptology off the Giza Plateau.

what you think the triangles on the side of the pyramids signify (I think you refer to them as chevrons).

The "triangles" are at the base of the pyramid, huge, and extend higher in the middles to about 35'. Nobody knows why they exist but they are a different kind of stone. I'd guess they have more compression strength and are for stability.

The chevrons are a cover for the "mn-canal" which was part of the "m3t-wt.t-cow" that started at the upper "eye of horus" 10' north of the pyramid and 35' east of the N/S CL. This caught the water that sprayed up and transported it to the Lake of the Jackal and then to the counterweights. The canal was covered because they sometimes dropped stones from above and damaging this structure would be catastrophic. It is this canal that is transporting heat from the interior to the chevrons and how I knew this was hot (cold right now).

To my knowledge there are no flaws in my theory. It is obviously still incomplete but if I had more data it could most probably be fleshed out in its entirety. Egyptology has announced (recently) that they no longer intend to study the pyramids at all and will now study how the pyramids built Egypt. They've been putting the cart before the horse for well over a century.

I may be a crank but at least I do science, Egyptology does not.

 

[mummyknave]

It would. And once it had reached such a size, I'm not sure that I understand how you would rig the counterweight.

I mean - for the counterweight to work it has to be in the 'up' setting before the load can be set and then raised. Once the counterweight is in the 'down' setting - the raised load is then removed, leaving the counterweight with no counter-load of its own, and therefore no means of being raised. How do you get the counterweight back to the 'up' setting for the next load? And if there's another process for raising the counterweight, then why not simply use this to bring the actual load up in the first place?

Or am I missing something?

No. You got it.

A couple things though. First these systems (called the "Bull of Heaven" were very finely balanced and required little work to reset. Indeed the most work was lifting all that rope on the north side to pull the dbdndr-boat back down into position. This rope weighed (net) about 250 lbs to get it started. On the early pyramids I have no doubt they simply used a few men at ground level to pull it down. However by the time of G1 even this was done "automatically" by filling a small bladder on the dndndr-boat. I have little doubt men sometimes road both boats either up or down and there was one small auxiliary system that was used for men to report to work in the morning.

250 lbs went down and 20 tons came up. Most of the weight going down was water that came up with no work.

 

[mummyknave]

Also, once inertia and friction is overcome, the counterweight accelerates. I wouldn’t want to be the dead weight in that basket accelerating towards the ground! So the system would require a governor mechanism to moderate the descent. In the absence of any illustrations or other evidence of pulleys, cables, and mechanical devices along these lines, then all this can only ever be speculation.

They had a brake.

They could be designed to have a sufficiently low terminal velocity but the ones for G1 had brakes so they could reduce the cycle time.

 

[mummyknave]

Well, I think Mummyknave's theory is that they used water as the counterweight, piped up to the top from geysers that aren't there any more (which would be better than a big chain of people with buckets, or another counterweight system to lift the water to operate the first one.)

The water sprayed up and was caught. It spayed 81' 3" which is the height of heaven.

 

[stu neville]

I'm losing a little interest in defending this here. I'll stick around but might not defend this theory much longer.

It's your theory.

To my knowledge there are no flaws in my theory.

OK. You clearly don't think we've identified any, then?

I actually know a great deal more about exactly how the pyramid was built then I've ever let on.

I am Captain Renault shocked.

 

[mummyknave]

OK. You clearly don't think we've identified any, then?

There are anomalies associated with every theory no matter how sound it is. If it were established knowledge based on experiment that the pyramids were built with linear funiculars powered by CO2 geysers there would still be evidence for other beliefs, interpretations and hypotheses. Obviously some of the criticism of my theory is well placed but I don't believe any of it successfully counters physical law, physical evidence, or logic required for the theory to be correct.

Obviously as well it is not established fact that funiculars built the great pyramids but my contention is still the evidence that exists is EXACTLY the evidence that might have been left if they had been built with funiculars. It is the nature of this evidence that has allowed me to successfully make several predictions about the pyramids where Egyptology has made none. Even without the ability to predict my theory is in closer accord with much more of the evidence than any other theory or hypothesis regarding construction. But with the ability to predict it seems to me that future scientists will say that "ramps" failed as a viable hypothesis early in this century and it's been known since as early as 2010 that stones were lifted with counterweights (configured as linear funiculars).

I can't see the future better than anyone else but I wager someone will get into G1 either physically or remotely within the next 25 years in order to find the "Book of Thot" which will come to be seen as the most important scientific treatise extant, with the likely exception of the 'Handbook of Chemistry and Physics". But where the latter work arose gradually over many years the Book of Thot will be revolutionary to all modern science and will in the long term rewrite the way science is done and in the short term completely rewrite everything we know about ourselves, consciousness, and metaphysics. A physical presence will probably follow very shortly after because there are samples and specimens in here that are invaluable to many many scientists.

Of course I can be wrong about everything but even if I am the fact remains this IS the evidence that exists AND my theory makes good prediction and explains virtually all the evidence and is in agreement with all experiment. Where current theory explains almost all evidence as being related to religion and magic my theory explains details and is supported by the literal meaning of the words of the pyramid builders themselves. For these reasons I believe that there is a better than 80% probability that my theory is generally correct.

 

[mummyknave]

It's your theory.

My participation here is a little more important to me than this specific thread.

 

[flannel]

The water sprayed up and was caught. It spayed 81' 3" which is the height of heaven.

Only the height of the first step then - it wouldn't have saved that much effort overall. It doesn't seem credible that there were 3 geysers on top of the Giza plateau spraying up to that sort of height.

I actually know a great deal more about exactly how the pyramid was built then I've ever let on.

I for one would be interested to hear more and would be grateful if you could list them out - ideally as bullet points.

When construction began they could only use the cliff face counterweights to pull stones up from the quarries and into a pile

As far as I can tell, only Khufu's pyramid is next to a cliff.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Only the height of the first step then - it wouldn't have saved that much effort overall. It doesn't seem credible that there were 3 geysers on top of the Giza plateau spraying up to that sort of height.

True, but where did the name 'Giza' come from?

 

[Mythopoeika]

As far as I can tell, only Khufu's pyramid is next to a cliff.

Now you mention it, there is a bit of a cliff there:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/T...10c2f3fa2a52424!8m2!3d29.9792345!4d31.1342019

I never really registered that before.

 

[mummyknave]

I for one would be interested to hear more and would be grateful if you could list them out - ideally as bullet points.

I know literally hundreds (thousands really) of things about the construction and couldn't possibly begin to list them in a single post. Before I begin please remember that all of these things are deductions and any or all could be wrong but I believe the broad strokes are correct.

The men lived in a small city of 4000 men, women, and children half a mile south of G1. The city was behind a long wall that deflected CO2 down the dry river bed because without it the city could be flooded by CO2 during temperature inversions killing all animal life. The first ten years these people built the port and a long "ramp" up to a masons shop on the east side. They also built a 17 acre water catchment and the various infrastructure NECESSARY to construction. All of this infrastructure survives in ruins or by positive traces left in the landscape or pyramids. On the north side is where the water came up and this too was man made. Above this water source they built an 81' structure which caught the water and funneled it into the center of the pyramid first to the lower chamber and eventually to the upper.

As they were building this they were extending the cliff face out from the pyramid and building canals to two points on the cliff face for use as counterweight runs. It was these cliff face counterweights that kept the stones flowing to the south and east sides. Initially they built the structure over the water source and the east side of the first step of the pyramid. Water flowed from the structure to the counterweights on the north side and then from the water catchment device to the cliff face counterweights. Every gallon of water was able to lift six pounds of the pyramid.

Counterweights fell from the top of the first step to lift stone to the top of this step. But they could build higher by shortening the ropes and by lifting from ever higher. In other words stones were relayed 81' at a time all the way up. To save rigging they were able to lift water even higher and they had an 81' platform on the south side so stones averaged only a littler more than two lifts to the top (by weight).

On top of the fifth step they built a little 79' pyramid. During the entire time they were building half steps and one third steps in every out of the way place that wouldn't interfere with the more important business of building higher and higher. They were also cladding parts of the pyramid which allowed the Turah Limestone Mine to fill the order over 20 years instead of all at once. The maritime and quarry industries were as primitive as every other part of the economy and required 20 years to fill the order for 100,000 casing stones. These were not stockpiled but rather all temporary and infrastructural building was composed of stone that became casing stone as the project wound down.

And wind down it did: final cladding operation began at the top. First the little pyramid on top was cladded from the bottom up built on a special block arrangement to support it. Likewise the 5th step was cladded from the bottom up and then the 4th all the way to ground level.

There were three primary quarry "ramps". One ran just to the east of the queens pyramids and the other two ran up from the quarry due north toward the main pyramid counterweights. Canals fed the cliff face counterweights both of which were found by Petrie who didn't know what he was looking at. The huge hole on the east side was part of a device that loaded the main ascender in the middle of the east side. It was full of water and a float in it kept the loading sled at the right height like a plate dispenser in a restaurant. There is also a stone flipper where the ramp from the Sphinx Quarry joins with the main ramp (causeway). There are large pits which in good weather housed large sails that could provide a ton or two of force that was used to move stones horizontally on the pyramid top and was used to reset the cliff face counterweights.

The fact that there were equal numbers of men, women, and children shows that there was equal amounts of men's, women's, and children's work. It shows that no stones were manhandled. Virtually every single move on every single great pyramid was made with a motive force mostly powered by water falling in counterweights. Men sat in the shade sipping "water like wine" as they watched the gods (natural processes) build the pyramids. You had to be trained in science (most were) and win a lottery to work on the pyramids. Only the "sculptors" (quarry workers) ever broke a sweat and they were spoiled with dust suppression systems and lots of relief. They all ate well and had feasts every ten days. They were, no doubt, each compensated more than they could consume on site.

There's no evidence for "ramps" and the word "ramp" isn't attested BECAUSE they did not use "ramps".

 

[mummyknave]

Only the height of the first step then - it wouldn't have saved that much effort overall. It doesn't seem credible that there were 3 geysers on top of the Giza plateau spraying up to that sort of height.

The original geyser and the largest in Egypt was probably near the center of the Great Pyramid in a place we call "The Grotto". It was moved to the north to build G1 and this same water source and structure above it might have been used to build both G1 and G2.

G3 was likely built using a much smaller geyser of only 33' but it's so small they couldda used ramps.

As far as I can tell, only Khufu's pyramid is next to a cliff.

Tough to tell.

But cliffs aren't absolutely necessary and simply make it possible to build three times as large with the same amount of water.

All these pyramids have steep slopes nearby and ropes could be strung out to them.

 

[mummyknave]

True, but where did the name 'Giza' come from

Tracing proper nouns over 4800 years is an impossibility. As a guess it's probably a confused modern term that means something like "pyramids".

The ancient name "Mouth of Caves" referred to the entire region from Meidum to Giza. and Abu Wawash. It was called "Rosteau" to the builders. It was the region overseen by horus where water sprayed from the earth through caves.

Now you mention it, there is a bit of a cliff there:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/T...10c2f3fa2a52424!8m2!3d29.9792345!4d31.1342019

I never really registered that before.

Nice map. I'm updating all of mine.

 

[mummyknave]

I actually wrote this back on March 22nd and left it on my desktop waiting for it to disappear. These usually have a life expectancy of about 4 days. I guess I should post it;


"
The people lived in a city and were 4000 men women and children a "half mile" ahead of the House of Life. It was behind a long wall that prevented the efflux of osiris from asphyxiating all breathing things when the air didn't move. For ten years they built a port and causeway to the Great Saw Palace to the left of the House of Life. They built a "17 acre" ssm.t and the sceptres needed that natural processes couild build the instrument of ascension. All such means survive or left evidence. Above the water source was built the m3.t-wt.t-cow which caught osiris as seker and transported it to the Lakes of the Jackal.

The cliff was built out from the pyramid and knsti-canals were constructed to the tops for the Ladder of Set. It was these ladders that caused the stones to fly as the fledglings of swallows a bow shot at a time ahead and to the left of the House of Life. The celestial cow and east sides were built first. Water flowed from the cow to the Bull of Heaven and then through the Winding Watercourse to the Marsh of Offerrings through the ladders. 50 "lbs" of seker built 40 "lbs" of the instrument of ascension.

The 3nw-boat fell from the top of the first finger of geb and lifting stones higher was done by shortening the ropes and lifting stones in stages. To save rigging water could be lifted higher and longer lifts performed and an "81'" platform before the pyramid allowed "less than" half the lifts than not doing it so.

On the top tier was emplaced a small pyramid. Partial teirs were constructed in every place that was did not interfere with operations to mount the House of Life skyward. Cladding was installed in many places as well to maintain maritime and quarrying operations which occurred over (20) 30 years because there was no other means to transport and stockpile so much product (100,000 stones) as needed to clad it. It was used stored as infrastructure and causeway.

Each tier was cladded from the bottom up starting at the top.

There were three inclined surfaces from the quarry upon which stones flew. On just east of the eastern "pyramids" and two straight north from tayet to the Bulls of Heaven.

Canals fed the cliff face counterweights both of which were found by Petrie who didn't know what he was looking at. The huge hole on the east side was part of a device that loaded the main ascender in the middle of the east side. It was full of water and a float in it kept the loading sled at the right height like a plate dispenser in a restaurant. There is also a stone flipper where the ramp from the Sphinx Quarry joins with the main ramp (causeway). There are large pits which in good weather housed large sails that could provide a ton or two of force that was used to move stones horizontally on the pyramid top and was used to reset the cliff face counterweights.

The fact that there were equal numbers of men, women, and children shows that there was equal amounts of men's, women's, and children's work. It shows that no stones were manhandled. Virtually every single move on every single great pyramid was made with a motive force mostly powered by water falling in counterweights. Men sat in the shade sipping "water like wine" as they watched the gods (natural processes) build the pyramids. You had to be trained in science (most were) and win a lottery to work on the pyramids. Only the "sculptors" (quarry workers) ever broke a sweat and they were spoiled with dust suppression systems and lots of relief. They all ate well and had feasts every ten days. They were, no doubt, each compensated more than they could consume on site.

There's no evidence for "ramps" and the word "ramp" isn't attested BECAUSE they did not use "ramps".



It's another perspective for #317

 

[mummyknave]

There is an interesting development. Some expert has picked up on my contention that the Egyptians could have had a simple pulley without having one like ours. I believe that the referent for "dm-sceptre" is a three part pulley like ours now.

I proposed this back in 2007;

https://egyptianpulley.com/

Incredibly enough he even draws a linear funicular;

 

[mummyknave]

Oh, and a write up on his proposal;

https://exarc.net/issue-2014-3/at/reinventing-egyptian-pulley

 

[mummyknave]

This is just unbelievable.

Seven years ago they finally used century old technology to see how the pyramid was built but these results were never released to the public and even withheld from Egyptologists. Now it's been two weeks since the completed study has been available and not a word!!! Incredibly the man withholding all this data is talking about his beliefs about the importance of totally different areas of the pyramid than were looked at in the various scans. He has previously said that he will release no results that don't agree with his beliefs because he doesn't want to confuse the public.

These are the tests that I campaigned for years to get done and the partial results were predicted by my theory.

If you can stand the voice here Hawass speaks at the end;

(Aug 12, '22)