The internet "iceberg"

[drjbrennan]

This is a real FOAF tale as it came from a "friend of a friend" who is allegedly a computer expert.
Anyway he said, that the internet is like an iceberg as 9/10 of it is hidden and the general public cannot access it.
The explanation was that joe public only really uses www, and things like usenet and gophernet (or something) are almost unused and also there are commercial and government sites that you need passwords to get onto and search engines don't list. And apparently all the old pre-www internet is still out there, but almost forgotten about, like betamax.
So, sounds fair enough to me, any comments forteans?

 

[Leaferne]

Well. Duh.

The people I deal with at work all day generally think "the internet" is web and email; they do not know what gophers, ftp, etc. are. In fact, not only do they think the web is the whole internet--they think that Internet Explorer *shudder* is the internet.

There are also, of course, various intranets and semi-public sites (are there a lot of old BBSes still running).

 

[ArthurASCII]

Usenet, telnet, Gopher, Janet etc....Aaaah, I remember the heady days when I used to surf the Interent through a command line interface on my VAX Alpha

In days of yore (before the invention of the hyperlink) these were the protocols we used when we needed to share information between networks. The ability to use these various methods still exists to a large extent. Do some reading and have a go. There is a lot of good info to be found (but don't expect a multimedia extravaganza).

 

[escargot]

This was in the Grauniad a few years ago. On my old pooter I have a huge list of 'hidden internet' links which sound a bit like the ones drjbrennan describes, except that most are password-free.

An example, as I remember, is the librarians' net, which is highly surfable and informative.

Nothing too mysterious, just a little hard to find.

 

[feen5]

Usenet, telnet, Gopher, Janet etc....Aaaah, I remember the heady days when I used to surf the Interent through a command line interface on my VAX Alpha

The explanation was that joe public only really uses www, and things like usenet and gophernet (or something)

The people I deal with at work all day generally think "the internet" is web and email; they do not know what gophers, ftp, etc. are.

Will somebody please tell me wht the hell are you all talking about, Gophers, Vax Alpha, telnet......the internet??? Honestly i have never heard of half the stuff that people mention in many threads on the board. Is it to late for me? Have i at 32 reached the height of my technological abilities (operating a mobile phone :lol: ). Is it worth my while to start learning about all these things or should i resign my self to the fact that i will have to have children in order to be able to workj the TV when i get older.

 

[Leaferne]

Will somebody please tell me wht the hell are you all talking about, Gophers, Vax Alpha, telnet......the internet??? Honestly i have never heard of half the stuff that people mention in many threads on the board. Is it to late for me? Have i at 32 reached the height of my technological abilities (operating a mobile phone :lol: ). Is it worth my while to start learning about all these things or should i resign my self to the fact that i will have to have children in order to be able to workj the TV when i get older.

the other posters huddle in a circle, talking in low voices, look over at Feen, throw their heads back, and laugh knowingly

A system that pre-dates the World Wide Web for organizing and displaying files on Internet servers. A Gopher server presents its contents as a hierarchically structured list of files. With the ascendance of the Web, many gopher databases were converted to Web sites which can be more easily accessed via Web search engines.

Gopher was developed at the University of Minnesota and named after the school's mascot. Two systems, Veronica and Jughead, let you search global indices of resources stored in Gopher systems.

Source

"FTP" defined at Wikipedia

"Usenet" defined at Wikipedia

"WAIS" defined at Wikipedia

When I first started getting online, circa 1995, the web wasn't as extensive as it is today, and a lot of stuff was in gopher directories. I was on Usenet a lot, and did a lot of my internet roaming with some sort of terminal emulator (BrownTerm on my old Mac, or another program) which was entirely text-based. I still read my email on my work (university) account using pine, which requires a Unix login. Back then, the internet was largely noncommercial; the only search engine or internet directory of note was Yahoo; and 14.4k was considered a reasonable connection speed.

Btw, Feen, I'm only 3 yrs older than you, so this isn't really a fogeyfest.

EDITED to chuck in: "VAX" at Wikipedia

 

[feen5]

From Leaferne

Btw, Feen, I'm only 3 yrs older than you, so this isn't really a fogeyfest.

you maybe only 3 years older than me but i'd say when it comes to the old pooters you are light years ahead of me. I guess, unless they invent some sort of cybernetic implant, i am destined to never understand computers or more especially the software and jargon. If it wasn't for the fact that there are people in work who sort out all my computer problems i probably never would have even logged on by now, (i know thats probably horrified all the computer literate out there but i'm sure there is more than one or two out there who are exactly like me). Some how i think as well that by the time i do know my gophers from my WAIS's i will have to learn a whole new system and terminology. I don't think i have either the computer talent or more especially the inclination to keep learning new computer terms and programmes i like my gophers four legged and living underground so to speak. Anyway thanks for the sites and i know who to come to if i ever need a term explained, i promise i won't annoy you to much.......?

 

[Ringo]

Feen, no need to worry. I am 26 and semi-computer literate. A university degree later and I can still only perform the most basic of commands on a Pc or Mac. The thing is "Who cares?". Unless you have a need to learn all of this stuff, then don't bother. To most people, the world wide web is the whole internet because that's what they are expecting to find and it's what they need. You go to a store, buy A PC, plug it in and surf. That's what it's for. I don't want to have to be a programmer or a computer whiz in order to enjoy the internet and you shouldn't have to be. I use the www to find stuff that interests me. If I have problems I ask for help or take the PC to be fixed. I drive a car on the motorway beacause it gets me where I want to be and if it breaks a mechanic fixes it if I can't. You don't have to know everything about cars to be allowed to drive.

Knowing loads about computers makes people feel smug and it can be quite daunting when you don't know what people are talking about. But when you feel like you're missing out, just check out the tech help thread and read all the "I've buggered up my computer fiddling with it etc. Somebody help me?" posts, have a giggle and sip your coffee.

 

[feen5]

From Ringo

I've buggered up my computer fiddling with it etc. Somebody help me?"

Yeah i love it when you hear stories (not on this site by the way) of people doing all sorts of crazy shit to their computers thinking it will help fix them. Thankfully i know enough to know that lets say hammering the side of the TV with your hand will result in (a) a sore hand and (b) a buggered up computer, and not as many programmes will have you believe a working picture. Anyway i think its slightly my fault that this thread has gone a bit off course so to try and get it going again how much actual information (or useful to the general public information) would be on these hidden websites that would'nt be on the everyday internet.

 

[jarmaniac]

Iceberg??

Yes, the Internet had content before the WWW, shock horror!

But I'd be surprised if it were 9 times the content today, as the "iceberg" tag seems to suggest. There is a lot of stuff on the Web, in case you hadn't noticed.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Iceberg??

But I'd be surprised if it were 9 times the content today, as the "iceberg" tag seems to suggest. There is a lot of stuff on the Web, in case you hadn't noticed.

I have to agree, there are sites that are not www, but I don't think that it would make up 90% of the internet, especially seeing how the internet has grown over the last 5 years.

I'd be happier to imagine the reverse, 10% being 'hidden' from us simple www users.

 

[Cavynaut]

Anyway he said, that the internet is like an iceberg as 9/10 of it is hidden and the general public cannot access it.

So THATS where my posts disappear to!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Iceberg??

But I'd be surprised if it were 9 times the content today, as the "iceberg" tag seems to suggest. There is a lot of stuff on the Web, in case you hadn't noticed.

I have to agree, there are sites that are not www, but I don't think that it would make up 90% of the internet, especially seeing how the internet has grown over the last 5 years.

I'd be happier to imagine the reverse, 10% being 'hidden' from us simple www users.

Count me in with lutzman and Jarmaniac, I think this was definitely true up until a few years ago.

For all the stuff on Usenet and shoved away in FTP directories I think that's now easily superceded by what's on the Web. Just think how prevalent blogs and journals have become, how many web sites have sprung up, how fora like this have overtaken what occurred on BBS and Usenet. You only have to think in terms of how for millions and millions of regular internet users, the Web is all there is.

Maybe a quick foray into Usenet to see what binaries are available but decide against it - porn is easier to access via Web, appz/mp3s/scans/eBooks etc., etc.. are easier to get with Bit Torrent and other P2P methods - and that's about it.

For all the governmental data, military data etc., that is out there including the 'other' internets, I just can't see how it outweighs everything that is now on the Web.