The Lost Cosmonauts

whoisquilty

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Anyone have any opinons on the stories of cosmonauts being lost in space? There have been several stories...

1) A woman burning to death in a space plane upon re-entry. She was supposedly the first woman in space and there is a supposed transmission of her last moments.

2) A heartbeat being picked up by a monitoring station that becomes fainter and fainter until it stops.

3) A mission involving a small group of cosmonauts being blasted off course by a solar flare.

4) A monkey that landed on the moon on Luna 14 (or thereabouts) and didn't open its spacecraft. So they just let it sit there and wait to die (like they had any other choice).

There is great site at http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/. Not sure I buy it all, but it's an interesting read nonetheless.

The thought of a frosty dead cosmonaut or astronaut hurdling through space is quite a picture. Anyone know of any other stories about crew being lost in space? Anyone heard of any Americans being lost?
 
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Anonymous

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lost cosmonauts

I remember some years ago reading of a womam cosmonaut that could not re-enter and was left up there.Also about some cosmonauts on the moon and they crashed(?).Hope this is useful to you.
 

naitaka

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The secrecy of the Soviet space program gave rise to all kinds of rumours and ULs. Encyclopedia Astronautica has a list of all 'phantom cosmonaut' reports, from the plausible (V. S. Ilyushin, not Gagarin, being the first man in space) to the bizarre:

"The feat of remotely driving the unmanned Lunokhod lunar rover around the lunar surface must have seemed a bit beyond Soviet technology for some Muscovites. So an urban legend was put about that the diminutive Lunokhod was actually driven by a midget KGB agent on a one-way suicide mission to the lunar surface. How sufficient provisions were packed into the tiny rover during its eleven month mission was not explained."

This site is skeptical of the claims made by the Lost Cosmonauts site. (Warning: lots of radio hobbyist jargon)
Embedded link is dead. The MIA webpage can be accessed via the Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/2003020...neasy.se/svengrahn/trackind/Torre/TorreB.html
 
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MrRING

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http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/

I don't know if anybody has been to this site before, but apparently the USSR lost a number of cosmonauts in early space travel attempts, but their deaths were hushed up to keep the West from hearing about them.

Hopefuly their sacrifice for science will be recognized publicly.
 
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Anonymous

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Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/

I don't know if anybody has been to this site before, but apparently the USSR lost a number of cosmonauts in early space travel attempts
I've seen that, yes. The 'look out the peephole' story is pretty much what started me on Fortean things at a young age, back in the 60s. I used to stay up nights imagining various horrible fates, mostly invovling UFOs. Now that I'm older, I tend to wonder if they were perhaps stuck in a capsule with a dead attitude control system, and were scrambling about one over the other trying to get the thing aligned properly for re-entry, perhaps trying to line up the earth's horizon with a line on the window. I've noticed alignment reticles like that in pictures of early Soviet space capsules.
 

Mob1138

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thanks for that link,makes me sad that i dont come here as often as i should when i read stuff like that!
 

brianellwood

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saw a prog on digital tv last year in which a former ussr rocket scientist admiitted that at least one cosmonaut was lost in failed missions. Wish I could remember the prog details. Sorry.
 

ianbat1

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Lost Cosmonauts

I was very taken with a story in a recent Fortean Times 'Lost in Space' about Russia's 'missing' Cosmonauts. I have some thought on this as well as some questions.

The website www.lostcosmonauts.com tells the story of these Cosmonauts in an entirely non-skeptical way, accepting the story as true, based on the recordings of the Judica-Cordiglia brothers. What interests me is whether any third party has ever examined these recordings to verify their content. For example, there is an interview with Gian Battista Judica Cordiglia on the website where they discuss the 'famous' recording of a woman, purported to be a female cosmonaut in a Vostok space ship, burning up on re-entry. In the interview he also mentions that they recorded two men at around the same time. Now this is extra-ordinary stuff, not one mystery cosmonaut but three at the same time. If they actually do have these recordings it would be essential from the point of view of scholarship and correcting the historical record that these recordings be properly examined by experts who could authenticate them. This would include such things as looking at the quality and nature of the recordings, the dates of each recording, what is being said and how it is being said.

(As an aside, magnetic tape from 1961 would most likely be showing signs of deterioration by now, these recordings should be transferred to some more permanent medium to avoid their being lost.)

My suspicion regarding the recording was raised when it was revealed that the JC brothers had a sister who spoke Russian - could she have hoaxed the recording? they have not released any recordings of male voices.

Another thought about this recording is that it could simply be a recording of Valentina Vladimirovna Tereshkova, who is documented as being the first woman in space - in 1963. The perception that the recording ends in the death of the cosmonaut could be wrong. It could simply be a recording of a nervous cosmonaut during a successful re-entry.

On hunting round the web I find a lot of possible information relating to this particular recording, in some places the cosmonaut is identified as Ludmilla Serakovna in others she is Ludmila Tokovy in tandem with her husband Anatoley or Nikolay. Also the date is generally given as May 1961 but in some sources it is dated to 1963. Where is all this information coming from? no sources are given.

This story is currently of great fascination to me. If true it is huge, if not, two Italian brothers have a lot of explaining to do.
Ian Batterham
Australia
 

Analis

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At this site: http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/Torre/TorreB.html it is said that James Oberg has "thoroughly debunked" the Judico-Cordiglia brothers' claims. A different stance from the Fortean Times article, which states that according to him, at least some of the brothers' recordings "could be interpreted to mean a lost cosmonaut" (in any case, I always thought that anything he said had to be handled with a pinch of salt). Which claim is true?

The author of this site says that the recordings of the lost cosmonaut woman are garbled. While the FT article describes them as "clear and accurately translated". There again, who is right?

This story is potentially huge, but sources are usually conflicting. Could a review by scholars reach a conclusion? You rightly pointed that magnetic tape from 1961 would probably deteriorate. So these experts should probably work on copies. As a result, even if the content of the brother's recordings was deemed as credible, it wouldn't be too difficult to suspect them of fakery. We would be left with the occasional ex-Soviet whistleblower, whose claims can't be checked. The truth is out there...
 

sonofajoiner

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Re: Lost Cosmonauts

ianbat1 said:
My suspicion regarding the recording was raised when it was revealed that the JC brothers had a sister who spoke Russian - could she have hoaxed the recording?
As a result of reading the FT online article on this I googled my way over to the Lost Cosmonauts site and there is an audio recording purportedly of the female cosmonaut that died on re-entry available there. The recording is pretty fuzzy but you can make out the words fairly clearly. I speak neither Russian nor Italian, but I was struck by how italian-sounding the recording is, if that makes sense. In my totally inexpert opinion, the words seem to have a definite Italian cadence/accent to them, so you never know, you could be onto something there!

At this site: http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/Torre/TorreB.html it is said that James Oberg has "thoroughly debunked" the Judico-Cordiglia brothers' claims. A different stance from the Fortean Times article, which states that according to him, at least some of the brothers' recordings "could be interpreted to mean a lost cosmonaut" (in any case, I always thought that anything he said had to be handled with a pinch of salt). Which claim is true?
James Oberg has stated that he does not believe the claims made by the J-C brothers wrt recordings of dying cosmonauts and secret pre-Gagrin missions.

If you go HERE and click on the link to the pdf document from 2007 you'll find actually he refutes any notion that he supports the brothers' claims. He's apparently written books which refute their claims.
Embedded link leads to a Google listing rather than a specific download site.

Oberg's 2007 article "WHY I DON’T BELIEVE THE CLAIMS OF THE JUDICA-CORDIGLIA BROTHERS" is accessible in PDF format at:
http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf

So it would seem he was pretty much quoted out of context in the FT article.
 
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Zilch5

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I found the article on this in the FT the most interesting in a while!

As coincidence would have it, a documentary called "Space Hackers" aired here on SBS a couple of weeks ago where several bits and pieces of those tapes could be heard.

As I don't speak Russian or Italian either, I can't vouch for any of the content... I didn't think they were faking it, but that's just a gut feeling.

One would need an expert in Russian space travel here.
 

Analis

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Re: Lost Cosmonauts

sonofajoiner said:
ianbat1 said:
My suspicion regarding the recording was raised when it was revealed that the JC brothers had a sister who spoke Russian - could she have hoaxed the recording?
As a result of reading the FT online article on this I googled my way over to the Lost Cosmonauts site and there is an audio recording purportedly of the female cosmonaut that died on re-entry available there. The recording is pretty fuzzy but you can make out the words fairly clearly. I speak neither Russian nor Italian, but I was struck by how italian-sounding the recording is, if that makes sense. In my totally inexpert opinion, the words seem to have a definite Italian cadence/accent to them, so you never know, you could be onto something there!
I found the fact that their sister could speak Russian was a striking coincidence. But a number of Italians heard the recording. I suppose that some journalists who interviewed the Judica-Cordiglia brothers met their sister too. Couldn't any of them recognize her voice if she faked the recording?
 

Krepostnoi

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Hmmm. There have been rumours that the Russians sent up a few missions without telling anybody. ...
I've heard a few people say that Gagarin was not the first man in space, merely the first to return, and I don't find that at all hard to believe, let alone the thought of dead dogs on the moon. Just look at what the USSR did to people on Earth.

I seem to recall an article in FT along these lines, with two Italian brothers picking up disturbing radio signals. Can't remember which issue, sorry.
 
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Mythopoeika

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I seem to recall an article in FT along these lines, with two Italian brothers picking up disturbing radio signals. Can't remember which issue, sorry.
Yes...they claimed they'd picked up a signal from a female cosmonaut in distress and her panicked voice faded away as she passed round the moon... :eek:

Edit: Aha, I misremembered it - the female cosmonaut burned up on re-entry. :(
 

Ulalume

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... I seem to recall an article in FT along these lines, with two Italian brothers picking up disturbing radio signals. Can't remember which issue, sorry.
The story appeared in FT233, April 2008. I just happened to find my copy the other day. Luck!

There is a web site with the recordings the brothers made, including the cosmonaut who allegedly burned up on re-entry. it's quite disturbing.
 
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stu neville

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The BBC made a heart-rending drama with Julian Rhind-Tutt as Vladimir Komarov (details here, currently unavailable though.)

Komarov died horribly on re-entry, having been shot into space in a craft that was known to be unfit for purpose, but the flight was ordered to go ahead to coincide with one or other of the myriad special days beloved of the Politburo. His last wish was that his remains - he knew he'd die - would be open- casket. I've posted the picture (spoilered) in the next post but one.
 

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The Komarov incident is discussed in Adam Curtis' 'Can't Get You Out Of My Head' on BBC iplayer but I can't remember which episode.
 

stu neville

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The Komarov incident is discussed in Adam Curtis' 'Can't Get You Out Of My Head' on BBC iplayer but I can't remember which episode.
Yes! I saw it the other week. Recommended all round but he does focus well on this incident, and about how it embodied the Soviet mania for not acknowledging blatant problems for fear of being packed off to the Gulag (the most overt example, and the inevitable consequence of this establishment sense of Omerta being Chernobyl.) Nobody wanted to tell Brezhnev that Komarov's craft was a certain death trap as that would delay launch and it wouldn't coincide with the 50th Anniversary of the Revolution. Komarov and Gagarin both protested, but were ordered that one or the other would take the flight. Komarov stepped forward, as he intimated that the death of Gagarin would be far more damaging to the Soviet psyche than his own, and that he would lay down his life for his friend, literally.

This is the picture of the open casket - spoilered, as it isn't pretty.

komarov.jpg
 

Mythopoeika

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Yes! I saw it the other week. Recommended all round but he does focus well on this incident, and about how it embodied the Soviet mania for not acknowledging blatant problems for fear of being packed off to the Gulag (the most overt example, and the inevitable consequence of this establishment sense of Omerta being Chernobyl.) Nobody wanted to tell Brezhnev that Komarov's craft was a certain death trap as that would delay launch and it wouldn't coincide with the 50th Anniversary of the Revolution. Komarov and Gagarin both protested, but were ordered that one or the other would take the flight. Komarov stepped forward, as he intimated that the death of Gagarin would be far more damaging to the Soviet psyche than his own, and that he would lay down his life for his friend, literally.

This is the picture of the open casket - spoilered, as it isn't pretty.

Grim, very grim. Komarov was a true hero.
 

pandacracker

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In the Curtis documentary they play the audio of Komarov shouting obscenities.

Very grim indeed.
 

Bad Bungle

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Yes! I saw it the other week. Recommended all round but he does focus well on this incident, and about how it embodied the Soviet mania for not acknowledging blatant problems for fear of being packed off to the Gulag (the most overt example, and the inevitable consequence of this establishment sense of Omerta being Chernobyl.) Nobody wanted to tell Brezhnev that Komarov's craft was a certain death trap as that would delay launch and it wouldn't coincide with the 50th Anniversary of the Revolution. Komarov and Gagarin both protested, but were ordered that one or the other would take the flight. Komarov stepped forward, as he intimated that the death of Gagarin would be far more damaging to the Soviet psyche than his own, and that he would lay down his life for his friend, literally.

This is the picture of the open casket - spoilered, as it isn't pretty.

Where were they going to pin the medal ?
 

EnolaGaia

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This Live Science article provides an overview of the various claims that there were unsuccessful Soviet manned spaceflights prior to Gagarin's and the 'lost cosmonaut' stories that persist to this day.
Yuri Gagarin: How the first man in space sparked a conspiracy theory

Today Gagarin's name is cemented in the record books, and he instantly became a national hero across the Soviet Union. Presented as a triumph of the fiercely fought Space Race against the U.S., the 27 year old, who had been chosen just three days before the mission, spent 108 minutes in space, orbited the Earth and returned fit and well following a drama-filled flight. ...

And yet, before he even embarked on his journey skywards, doubt was seeded in many a person's mind. For rumors had surfaced that the Soviets had successfully launched a man into space before Gagarin set foot in Vostok 1, and the talk was that one cosmonaut had done so on April 7, just five days earlier. ...

Dennis Ogden, the Moscow-based correspondent for the British Communist Party newspaper, Daily Worker, reported as such, his story splashed across the publication's front page with the headline: "The First Man In Space". It informed readers that the spaceman — "the test-pilot son of a top-ranking aircraft designer" — was "back alive, but suffering from [the] effects of his flight". ...

Gagarin's feet hadn't even left the ground when the paper hit the newsstands, and it caused something of a stir, sparking the first whispers of a conspiracy theory which has continued to this day. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.livescience.com/yuri-gagarin-conspiracy-theory.html
 
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