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The Madeleine McCann Disappearance

..Bit off topic but can you imagine being the McCanns?..

Does it really matter ?

These are people, supposedly intelligent educated people, who apparently left their children in an unlocked room while they went out for a meal.

That alone makes them deserving of all the opprobrium that is heaped upon them.

I should image that the other children will start to wonder 'Just what did happen to our sister ?'.

INT21
 
People knew what happened to Ben but didn't speak out.

INT21
 
Ben went missing on Kos.

Parents searched for years.

It turned out that Ben was killed accidentally by some neighbor who was using an excavator.

They only found out from the drivers relations when he had died. if I remember correctly.

Google it. Ben Needham.

Here it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Ben_Needham

Particularly tragic that some people knew for all that time but didn't come forward.

INT21
 
link indicates DNA tests still being run ... so needhams and mccanns are different how ?
 
Coal said:
Indeed. Whatever the truth of the case, if the parents had been Scouser working class folk would it have gone on quite so long? Or would they even have got away from the Portuguese police?
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This comment really is stupid beyond belief, considering the mother IS Scouse and the father is Glaswegian.

Good bloody grief.
 
Becoming doctors means you leave your roots behind then? Kate Healy/McCann is from Huyton, ffs. It is a hole, and I say that as someone who comes from three miles away!

Maybe all this conspiracy stuff is a load of shite, and they were stupid to leave their kids alone. Just a thought, like.
 
Come on Danny, INT21 means that the class system is alive and well in this country, and someone who speaks "nicely" and has a "good education" has more social capital than someone who lives on a council estate and has a low paid job. However fair or unfair that sounds. I don't know how Kate grew up, but it's her position as a doctor now that means people think she wouldn't lie. But lots of things she said around the 'break in' make no sense.

If you want to look into why there might be something in this conspiracy shite, then I recommend this

The documentary by the Portuguese police officer Goncalo Amaral
or you can read the book here
https://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/

Also Rich Planet's videos
I don't deny some of his other videos are a bit 'out there'. But the detail he goes into is very interesting.
 
Danny,

..
Maybe all this conspiracy stuff is a load of shite, and they were stupid to leave their kids alone. Just a thought, like...

You may be right.

In one report, the first words that Mcann said, upon discovering Maddy was missing, was 'They've taken her'.

Do you not consider this a strange thing to say ?

Not 'I can't find Maddy', or 'Maddy is missing'.

'They've taken her' implies the knowledge of a 'they'.

One would think people, particularly people whose profession involves the care of others, would be more careful.

But when you reflect on the number of doctors, nurses and care workers who have been involved in everything from murder to assaulting their patients then holding professional credentials doesn't seem to make people 'special'. regardless of their roots.

INT21
 
INT21 said:
In one report, the first words that Mcann said, upon discovering Maddy was missing, was 'They've taken her'.
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Just out of idle linguistic curiosity, do we know whether this is a verbatim quotation of the words she spoke in English, or was it translated from a Portuguese police report (or the like)? My reason for asking is that in many languages the passive voice is not formed in the same way as it is in English, and in fact an impersonal "they" is used when the agent of the verb is not known (or not important). If it is, in fact, a back-translation from Portuguese, then I'd say we can't really put any weight on it at all, as we cannot be sure what the original English words were.
 
Interesting point, Krepostnoi, but the comment still implies someone taking her rather than her wandering out of an unlocked apartment by herself (something a small child might do if they woke up in the middle of the night with no one there to soothe them, to go looking for a parent)? Otherwise wouldn't the reported words be "she's gone" or "she's disappeared"? I know nothing of Portuguese but they seem like different concepts to 'taken'?
 
Eponastill said:
Interesting point, Krepostnoi, but the comment still implies someone taking her rather than her wandering out of an unlocked apartment by herself (something a small child might do if they woke up in the middle of the night with no one there to soothe them, to go looking for a parent)? Otherwise wouldn't the reported words be "she's gone" or "she's disappeared"? I know nothing of Portuguese but they seem like different concepts to 'taken'?
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Yes, I wouldn't disagree with that. My point, such as it is, is that as soon as translation enters the equation, it's another layer of potential misdirection, intentional or otherwise.

Without making any comment about the McCanns' parenting, I could imagine a panicking parent screaming "she's been kidnapped!" if they can't find a daughter where they expected one to be. That could easily be translated into a Romance language (and, alas, Portuguese is not one of my working languages) using the structure I referred to above, and then back-translated as "taken". Of course, there could be many other explanations for that wording, up to and including them being a faithful rendering of what she actually said.
 
Semantics aside, the initial shout of "they've taken her" or "she's been taken" is the very last thing I would expect a parent in that situation to say, even when under huge amounts of stress. I'm not a parent myself, but it strikes me that the possibility of abduction, while ever-present in the back of a parent's mind, would not be something they'd allow themselves to vocalise (or possibly even form as a clear thought) until they had begun to rule out other possibilities.
It's exactly how someone would behave if they were trying to establish a narrative, however.
 
I think you were pretty mild on the FT Forum Scale of Rudeness, Danny :)

This heat is becoming really boring. At work I grin politely but inside I want everyone to go and take a running jump. How much longer can this country survive on broken sleep, lack of concentration and sweaty colleagues?? Let's hope it rains soon. And don't even mention the options for the football, I don't know which outcome would be worse for the nation's sanity.
 
I'm not sure if it was a verbatim quote or not. It certainly seems to have caught the investigators attention at the time. Also, was the apartment locked ? I can't imagine anyone leaving kids of any age in an unlocked apartment for any reason. Or even leaving an empty apartment unlocked whilst going out for a meal. I have never done this when on holiday.
If someone was supposed to check periodically on the kids one would expect them to have been given a key.

Danny,

Even quite innocent things can take on the appearance of a conspiracy when some things fail to add up. And in this case there are quite a few inconsistencies in the McCann's story. Could just be coincidence.

As an aside. One has to ask why tower 7 collapsed when nothing hit it. But that is probably dealt with elsewhere.

INT21

p.s. I used to drink Captain Morgans years ago. Nice stuff.
 
I'm a moderator on a forum predominantly populated by lads, for my sins. I've dealt with far worse than what I posted last night! Maybe that's why I usually try to be polite on other forums.

Unfortunately, the fact that I am an opinionated git-ess often gets in the way of my noble intentions. :angel:

I know there are many weird things about this case... and I know full well from experience that "respectable" members of society often do all sorts of terrible things.

I f've always had the feeling (which means nowt with no evidence, obviously... but not do anyone else's feelings about it) that these two were basically stupid that night. They paid the worst price imaginable, and I suspect their poor little lass did too. I can't imagine what it is like to live with that knowledge.

I really do not see how there is any way they could have done what some think... the world's media was constantly watching them very quickly, at their own instigation.

As for Captain Morgans...pfft! My lad and I moved into Oakheart a long time ago. :)
 
Eponastill - I know. The weather is horrendous. If it gets past 33° when we get thrashed by Croatia/France, I fear for the fabric of society. :freak:
 
As for Captain Morgans...pfft! My lad and I moved into Oakheart a long time ago.

I haven't drunk rum for over 40 years. Never heard of Oakheart. ;)

INT21
 
Schrodinger's Zebra said:
I just typed out a very detailed reply to not only your comment but some other recent comments on this thread, and then I realised I wasn't comfortable listing some of the facts and theories on here because (a) I don't want the FT forum to get into any legal trouble if I say too much and (b) I don't want to end up like Brenda Leyland. (Google her if you've not heard of her).

So instead I'll just say this.

There's a very good website where massive amounts of investigation have been done but I don't know the rules for linking to other forums so if you're interested, please feel free to search online and I'm sure you'll come across it. (I have no affiliation with the site by the way - I'm not even a member there, I've just read a lot of the information on there).

I'd advise people to ignore the 'mainstream' reports on this case and delve into websites like that, where people have discussed various theories and anomalies about the case (and put a great deal of time and effort into doing so) - that's what I did (although I already believed the parents to be guilty before I found out the even more strange aspects).

You will probably find, as I did, that there are theories which are plausible, plenty of things that are downright strange about this whole case, and theories which you don't believe in. And that's fine. But the important thing is to at least arm yourself with as much information as you can, so you can make your own minds up.


:artist:
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I am struggling to come up with anything other than newspaper stories :(
 
Eponastill said:
Come on Danny, INT21 means that the class system is alive and well in this country, and someone who speaks "nicely" and has a "good education" has more social capital than someone who lives on a council estate and has a low paid job. However fair or unfair that sounds. I don't know how Kate grew up, but it's her position as a doctor now that means people think she wouldn't lie. But lots of things she said around the 'break in' make no sense.

If you want to look into why there might be something in this conspiracy shite, then I recommend this

The documentary by the Portuguese police officer Goncalo Amaral
or you can read the book here
https://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/

Also Rich Planet's videos
I don't deny some of his other videos are a bit 'out there'. But the detail he goes into is very interesting.
Click to expand...

Excellent choice of links, I second your recommendation. :)


INT21 said:
These are people, supposedly intelligent educated people, who apparently left their children in an unlocked room while they went out for a meal.
Click to expand...

Ah, but, did they? That's the whole point. ;) That's what they wanted (and still want, of course) people to think. But there's heaps of people who theorise that they didn't, and in my opinion those theories are onto something. But the McCanns want to keep pushing the abduction storyline because it suits them.



Eponastill said:
Interesting point, Krepostnoi, but the comment still implies someone taking her rather than her wandering out of an unlocked apartment by herself (something a small child might do if they woke up in the middle of the night with no one there to soothe them, to go looking for a parent)? Otherwise wouldn't the reported words be "she's gone" or "she's disappeared"? I know nothing of Portuguese but they seem like different concepts to 'taken'?
Click to expand...

RyoHazuki said:
Semantics aside, the initial shout of "they've taken her" or "she's been taken" is the very last thing I would expect a parent in that situation to say, even when under huge amounts of stress. I'm not a parent myself, but it strikes me that the possibility of abduction, while ever-present in the back of a parent's mind, would not be something they'd allow themselves to vocalise (or possibly even form as a clear thought) until they had begun to rule out other possibilities.
It's exactly how someone would behave if they were trying to establish a narrative, however.
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Précisément, (as Hercule Poirot would say). :nods:
 
bloop said:
I am struggling to come up with anything other than newspaper stories :(
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Do you mean you can't find the forums I hinted at? If so, next time you search, include a girl's name... clue: Jack went up the hill with her.

I'm not very good at trying to be all clandestine and stuff. It's a Complete Mystery ;) how some people are good at it.

:boh:
 
RyoHazuki said:
Semantics aside, the initial shout of "they've taken her" or "she's been taken" is the very last thing I would expect a parent in that situation to say, even when under huge amounts of stress.
Click to expand...
There has been speculation that the children were given a little bit of a "sleep aid" to keep them in their beds. If that was the case, abduction would seem like the obvious reason for one being missing.
 
Min Bannister said:
There has been speculation that the children were given a little bit of a "sleep aid" to keep them in their beds. If that was the case, abduction would seem like the obvious reason for one being missing.
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I don't follow how the two things connect? (are you implying the parents drugged the children because it would make it easier for a kidnapper they knew was coming? - that's a bit more than the theory that the parents drugged the children to make them stay in bed, but Maddie died and they had to get rid of her body to avoid looking like doctors that would drug their children and allow one to accidentally die, not good for the career)
 
Eponastill said:
I don't follow how the two things connect? (are you implying the parents drugged the children because it would make it easier for a kidnapper they knew was coming? - that's a bit more than the theory that the parents drugged the children to make them stay in bed, but Maddie died and they had to get rid of her body to avoid looking like doctors that would drug their children and allow one to accidentally die, not good for the career)
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No no! I am just suggesting it could be a reason why they immediately thought of kidnapping when they found her missing. She can't have walked out on her own so she must have been taken.
 
Schrodinger's Zebra said:
Do you mean you can't find the forums I hinted at? If so, next time you search, include a girl's name... clue: Jack went up the hill with her.

I'm not very good at trying to be all clandestine and stuff. It's a Complete Mystery ;) how some people are good at it.

:boh:
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Thanks for solving the 'mystery' for me SZ - I may be away a while ;):D
 
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