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I think you were pretty mild on the FT Forum Scale of Rudeness, Danny :) This heat is becoming really boring. At work I grin politely but inside I want everyone to go and take a running jump. How much longer can this country survive on broken sleep, lack of concentration and sweaty colleagues?? Let's hope it rains soon. And don't even mention the options for the football, I don't know which outcome would be worse for the nation's sanity.

I have heard that wearing less clothing, opening building windows, setting the building AC to cooler temperatures, and bathing regularly in cool water, as well as plenty of non-alcoholic hydration and cold food, or spicy food can do wonders for making hot weather more bearable. Sunscreen and a scented anti-perspirant spray are also recommended. Activities such as running, and anything involving crowds are inadvisable.

I mention this solely because I come from a warmer climate and my Norwegian in-laws had close to zero notion of what to do in hot weather and had not considered wearing something other than their bulky anoraks outside. I am also grateful for their informing me about managing severely cold weather in return.

If anyone is interested I also run classes in egg sucking for senior citizens.
 
I might sign up, thanks.

But is there a unit in your course advising British men about not taking their shirts off? It becomes an epidemic after about 10 minutes' sunshine, normally. One doesn't necessarily want to see what people have under their shirts.

Also can you encourage the adoption of siestas? I'm sure they'd help no end with avoiding petty arguments and lack of concentration. Mad dogs and Englishmen and all that. We don't even realise it's a concept.

In reciprocation I can suggest drinking tea (people will swear it not only warms you up, but also magically keeps you cool).
 
A couple of years ago (see Post#708 on p25 I think) there was some speculation that a small girl's remains found in a suitcase near Wynarka in South Australia may have been related to the Maddy McCann mystery. It was not. The perp has pleaded guilty. Very sad. Very very sad. Sometimes I truly hate People.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-31/daniel-james-holdom-pleads-guilty-to-murder/10055906

Daniel James Holdom pleads guilty to murders of Karlie Pearce-Stevenson and daughter Khandalyce
By court reporter Jamelle Wells
Updated 19 minutes ago


Photo: Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (L) and her mother Karlie Jade Pearce-Stevenson. (Supplied: SA Police)

Related Story: Body-in-suitcase double murder accused committed to stand trial
A man has pleaded guilty to murdering his ex-girlfriend in the Belanglo State Forest, south of Sydney, and also killing her two-year-old daughter.

Key points:
  • Karlie Pearce-Stevenson's remains were found in Belanglo State forest in 2010
  • Her daughter Khandalyce's body was placed in a suitcase and left beside a South Australian highway
  • Daniel James Holdom was days away from facing a murder trial
Daniel James Holdom, 43, entered guilty pleas to two counts of murder in the NSW Supreme Court just days before his trial was due to start.

Police say Holdom murdered his former girlfriend Karlie Pearce-Stevenson, stomping on her throat and leaving her body in the Belanglo State Forest in 2008.

Her remains were found in 2010 and police used DNA to identify them years later.

Police say Holdom also murdered Ms Pearce-Stevenson's two-year-old daughter Khandalyce after telling relatives he was driving her to her grandmother's house.

The child's remains were put in a suitcase, which was found on a remote highway near Wynarka in South Australia in July, 2015 — more than 1,100 kilometres from the Belanglo Forest where her mother was found....
______________________________________________________________________
The Shithead:
6897274-3x2-700x467.jpg
 
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Have you seen they want even MORE money?

Noticed a newspaper headline along those lines this morning, but haven't read the full article.

Is this the McCann's wanting more, or the police "investigation"?

We could just lob some Monopoly money at them, that's about as real as the investigation, anyway.
 
How much money have they spent so far?

Shady!!! You're back!!!
*runs slow-motion across the FT-landscape* :oldm:



In answer to your question... £746,000 in Home Office grants paid to Leicestershire Constabulary https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...blic-money-spent-on-the-madeleine-mccann-case, that isn't all though (some links say as much as £5 million).

Not to mention the reports that the McCanns had used some of their 'Maddie Fund' money (you know the money donated to them by members of the public to help them in their 'search' for Maddie) to pay off their mortgage...

... I think I've said enough :D
 
I have not myself followed this case closely for the last few years, so I can't comment on what has been said here lately. Nonetheless--just in case--I'd like to remind all members to make sure that when it comes to issues of financial impropriety etc. you must ensure that you are able to substantiate any allegation you may make; don't just pass on rumours.
 
No no! I am just suggesting it could be a reason why they immediately thought of kidnapping when they found her missing. She can't have walked out on her own so she must have been taken.

No one would assume that. They would assume the drugs hadn't worked as well as they hoped and the kid had wandered off. If they did shout that it's very telling.
 
I have not myself followed this case closely for the last few years, so I can't comment on what has been said here lately. Nonetheless--just in case--I'd like to remind all members to make sure that when it comes to issues of financial impropriety etc. you must ensure that you are able to substantiate any allegation you may make; don't just pass on rumours.

Oops sorry, good point. :sorry:

Well the mortgage thing, here are some articles from 2007:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7068760.stm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1567856/McCanns-used-1m-fund-to-pay-mortgage.html
The parents of Madeleine McCann have used the £1 million fighting fund set up to help find their daughter to pay off part of their mortgage, it has emerged...
It is understood they asked for money to pay their £2,000 monthly re-payments in July and August, but did not apply for any more - nor were they given any - after they were made suspects in their daughter's case in September.



not to mention keep up the high grade of posts !
Aww, thank you henry, we're doing sterling work here and it's nice to be appreciated. :adored:



No one would assume that. They would assume the drugs hadn't worked as well as they hoped and the kid had wandered off. If they did shout that it's very telling.

Eeeexactly. :agree:



Madeleine McCann's father describes the 'terror' of her disappearance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45694119

*sighs in despair* See, this is one of the reasons why I feel the way I do about this case. An article, once again in which one or both of the McCanns describe how they feel. How Maddie's disappearance abduction caused him so much upset. Not once do they ever, ever talk about how Maddie must be feeling. Not once do they ever plead with her mysterious 'abductor' to look after her, to bring her back to them. It's always just about them.

And this:
"I couldn't get the darkest thoughts out of our minds, that somebody had taken her and abused her," he continued.

She's just missing from the apartment at that point! Why would that be the first thing you'd think about??????!!!!!!!
 
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I cannot imagine (nor do I want to even try) what it would be like to lose a child. But I can imagine that it would be worse to have one disappear/abducted than to have a child die. There would be constant worry.

We should all remember that whilst their behaviour may seem suspicious, erractic or non linear, these are people who may have had their child taken. And anyone who thinks that it's OK to make wild accusations about these people should think twice about their actions. You are entitled to your opinion but free speech doesn't mean that you can say whatever you like.

I would move heaven and earth to find my child. They spent £5 million looking for her? I would spend that each and every day without blinking. They paid 2 months of mortgage with their Maddy Fund. Well why not? They have a family home to keep going and in one way or another (their own cash or the fund) the mortgage had to be paid and the other money is going on flights, hotels, the search, hire cars etc etc in Portugal.

Min Bannister - I agree that whilst Jerry talked about how it made him feel, we don't know how our own defence mechanisms would work to protect out minds. He may have had to block off thinking about what she is/was feeling in order to continue. I would be physically and emotionally crippled if I imagined that my little daughter was suffering somewhere and I couldn't get to her. He may be just trying to survive.

They certainly are not without blame. They may be just culpable for negligence, they may or may not have been more involved but I also think that if they had done something, then there would be a tendency for them to try to bring the investigation quietly to a close. If you have done a bad thing, then you want to try and forget it and move on. Not keep going on and on about it, dragging out the pain. The fact that they are still looking and still trying to get funding points in their favour.

The whole thing is a terrible business.
 
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It might be shallow of me, but I reckon that death would have been a merciful release after being lumbered with a chav-barrelled name like that.

maximus otter

Hold on... are you referring to the names of the victims?

Cause if you are, it looks like I'll have to wheel out this little clip again:





I cannot imagine (nor do I want to even try) what it would be like to lose a child. But I can imagine that it would be worse to have one disappear/abducted than to have a child die. There would be constant worry.

We should all remember that whilst their behaviour may seem suspicious, erractic or non linear, these are people who may have had their child taken. And anyone who thinks that it's OK to make wild accusations about these people should think twice about their actions. You are entitled to your opinion but free speech doesn't mean that you can say whatever you like.

I would move heaven and earth to find my child. They spent £5 million looking for her? I would spend that each and every day without blinking. They paid 2 months of mortgage with their Maddy Fund. Well why not? They have a family home to keep going and in one way or another (their own cash or the fund) the mortgage had to be paid and the other money is going on flights, hotels, the search, hire cars etc etc in Portugal.

Min Bannister - I agree that whilst Jerry talked about how it made him feel, we don't know how our own defence mechanisms would work to protect out minds. He may have had to block off thinking about had she is/was feeling in order to continue. I would be physically and emotionally crippled if I imagined that my little daughter was suffering somewhere and I couldn't get to her. He may be just trying to survive.

They certainly are not without blame. They may be just culpable for negligence, they may or may not have been more involved but I also think that if they had done something, then there would be a tendency for them to try to bring the investigation quietly to a close. If you have done a bad thing, then you want to try and forget it and move on. Not keep going on and on about it, dragging out the pain. The fact that they are still looking and still trying to get funding points in their favour.

The whole thing is a terrible business.


We shall have to agree to disagree on this. :)

I don't see anyone making wild accusations on here - only stating the facts as are known to us (whether or not those particular facts are reported in the media of course).

I can see that this thread is, sadly, not the place to discuss the case in full and is becoming, dare I say, a little bit like the police investigation - look everywhere except at the McCanns.

It's a shame, that's all.
 
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...I don't see anyone making wild accusations on here - only stating the facts as are known to us (whether or not those particular facts are reported in the media of course)...

I don't think so - I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular, but taking the thread as a whole there are clearly a lot of facts out there, amply padded out with great wads of innuendo, assumption and rumour. As they have been everywhere else.

I have no wish to argue with anyone on the subject, but to claim that the previous forty pages or so have been 'only' about facts is an extremely rose tinted view of the matter.
 
Min Bannister - I agree that whilst Jerry talked about how it made him feel, we don't know how our own defence mechanisms would work to protect out minds.
Are you sure you mean me? My comment about the drugging was actually in response to comments a page or so back from people who don't believe that anyone could ever think their child had been kidnapped. I don't really agree because as you say, none of us can predict how we might think in that situation.
 
Are you sure you mean me?

No, I didn't mean you. Sorry. I had a read a few comments and mixed them up. I meant Zebra.

Zebra - Unfortunately, we can't even agree to disagree because I don't have a stand point on their guilt/innocence. I don't know what happened. They may be guilty as sin and have covered the whole thing up. All I mean is that unless it happened to you or me, we have no possible way of knowing how we would react or what we would say. And so analysing their words or actions from our sane viewpoint is meaningless. I suppose it's a matter of perspective. I haven't followed the case so you are probably better informed than I am.
 
Earlier statement for those who missed it:

We have been a little concerned with the tone of the thread for some time now, but with no new updates for a while it appeared moribund and we elected to let sleeping dogs lie. Now it's active again, however, we'd like to do something to remove the nastiness and snark in what is, after all, the discussion of a horrible crime with a child as the victim. I shall try to write something more specific tonight, but in the meantime it might be worth taking Ringo's excellent posts above as an indication of the way we moderators feel about the stridency of some of the contributions submitted long and not so long ago.

For the avoidance of doubt, nothing is out of bounds as subject matter and there is no 'line' which posters must take to contribute to the thread. My only concerns are with a) posts that potentially open the publisher to legal censure and b) posts that make the board look unsavoury and reflect badly on our community--the bar for rejection is already set very high, but the umpires have, perhaps, been focused on other events.

Update:

Both EnolaGaia and myself have read the entirety of this thread and, to put it mildly, it isn't the board's finest moment. The only silver lining is that much of the most barrel-scraping comments came from former or infrequent posters.

Anyway, I've pruned the thread and removed a couple of dozen of the most egregious posts (nothing only one thing that was recent).

Those removed include but are not limited to (I paraphrase) :
  • How Kate has sex appeal because of the 'bad girl' air.
  • Suggestions for various actors who might portray the killer parents in a musical/comedy about the crime.
  • Out-and-out accusations that one or more of the parents are killers who did this for fame or money.
  • Pretty clear misogyny about women's lib and motherhood (hardly the arch SJW, me).
If you doubt my judgment, please go back and read the whole thing yourself and see if it doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth even with the worst posts removed.

To reiterate my point in quotation above, no avenue of discussion is off limits here, but from this point onwards we would very much like posters to write without excessive mordancy and at least couch accusations in sensible terms to reflect what may, most likely, could possibly or probably is true if no supporting evidence is being cited to show the charge is indisputable.

Many would state that humour is inappropriate in such a case, but I disagree. It's natural to find the funny side to even the darkest day, but could we please make sure that jokes are actually funny and not just mean?

The thread title has been edited for search and clarity.

Play on.

Private messages solicited both for and against, as ever.
 
then i think your grasp of déjà vu is incomplete !

and ... plus ça change eh
 
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