• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Beliefs About Trees (Folklore; Associations; Attributions)

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
8,570
Location
York
I was listening to Gardener's Question Time on my way to work on Sunday, and I heard a nine year old girl ask about planting rowan trees by the garden gate to keep witches away. The team laughed and only one said he'd ever heard of this...

I thought it was common knowledge that rowan wood kept witches away. Have we come so far from our origins that nobody has heard of this? I've known the folklore since I was very young - to be fair, I read a lot so might have picked it up from books, but are there any other legends about trees and plants that might need recording for posterity?
 
There are a number of leads on oaks from the entry in (the excellent) A Dictionary of English Folklore by Jacqueline Simpson & Steve Roud:

Screen Shot 2019-02-14 at 01.41.48.png
 
Yes, rowan to keep witches away, elder is an old lady who must be respected and ash is a mean character and you shouldn't sit under them. Apples need to be greeted at Hogmany and must be informed (the same as bees!) if a change happens in the family.
 
There could easily be separate threads on the folklore of each species of tree. It must be one of the richest sources of folk belief there is.

I'm sure I've read sometime in the last couple of years of an old belief that willow trees were quite predatory, and would actually leap on travellers from time to time. Makes J K Rowling's whomping willow seem tame.
 
There could easily be separate threads on the folklore of each species of tree. It must be one of the richest sources of folk belief there is.

I'm sure I've read sometime in the last couple of years of an old belief that willow trees were quite predatory, and would actually leap on travellers from time to time. Makes J K Rowling's whomping willow seem tame.

Will let this thread run a while, dig through the older threads and do some hacking and grafting later on.
 
Will let this thread run a while, dig through the older threads and do some hacking and grafting later on.

Thanks Yith. I am sure there is a lot of stuff around (and on this site). I was mostly just horrified at the way the team laughed and patronised the little girl, like it was some kind of 'fairy story' rather than old belief. And then I got a bit angry that folklore like this was being laughed at by people who'd clearly not had a decent, broad education.
 
Catseye,

...like it was some kind of 'fairy story' rather than old belief. ..

The problem with your feeling is that this is exactly what they are. Old world fairy tales and beliefs from a 'simpler' age.

We should regard them as 'quint' at best.

INT21.
 
There are a number of leads on oaks from the entry in (the excellent) A Dictionary of English Folklore by Jacqueline Simpson & Steve Roud:

View attachment 14954

I assumed 'Gospel Oaks' were a type of Quercus like White Oak or Turkey Oak until I read the entry, this idea originating from a visit to Totnes Castle in Devon. In the grounds were a couple of trees I didn't recognise that had been heavily cut back - I asked the Custodian and she said they were Gospel oaks (or were they Laurel oaks ?). Anyway the tragedy was the trees were diseased (hence the lopping) and were losing their bark and on the bark was graffiti carved by Italian Prisoners of War when interned in the castle. Literally shedding history.

Totnes2134.jpgPOW.jpg
 
How about blackthorn?

It produces sloes, used in sloe gin. It was reputed to be the source of Jesus' Crown of Thorns. Sloes were found in the stomach of Ötzi the Iceman. Because it's a hard, dense wood, it was much used in the production of shillelaghs. Wounds inflicted by a blackthorn weapon are reputed never to heal properly. The flowering of the blackthorn may have been associated with the ancient Celtic celebration of Imbolc.

maximus otter
 
Last edited:
I was told as a child that the Celts of these parts ( South west) had a counting system based on trees, this is the only bit of tree lore I can recall being told, the rest I must have absorbed as I feel like I have always known it.
I had no idea that the distinctive smell is similar to that of rotting meat. Who goes around sniffing trees and meat?
 
I haven't seen that before Newt :) Looks like I should be planning some baking for the hawthorn prunings...
 
I was listening to Gardener's Question Time on my way to work on Sunday, and I heard a nine year old girl ask about planting rowan trees by the garden gate to keep witches away. The team laughed and only one said he'd ever heard of this...

I thought it was common knowledge that rowan wood kept witches away. Have we come so far from our origins that nobody has heard of this? I've known the folklore since I was very young - to be fair, I read a lot so might have picked it up from books, but are there any other legends about trees and plants that might need recording for posterity?
Yes, I've known that forever as well. Also some other ones, like you can never bring cow parsley into the house (have also heard this re other white flowers, esp May blossom). As kids, in the West Riding, we called it 'mother-die' and it was believed if you brought in indoors it had that effect...
 
I was told as a child that the Celts of these parts ( South west) had a counting system based on trees, this is the only bit of tree lore I can recall being told, the rest I must have absorbed as I feel like I have always known it.
I had no idea that the distinctive smell is similar to that of rotting meat. Who goes around sniffing trees and meat?
The ogham is an alphabet based on trees that some arcane traditions still teach. A bit like runes.

Talking of rowan, they reckon Viking/Anglo-Saxon runes were often carved on rowan - it was seen as a magical tree in these islands as well as Scandinavia. Ogham staves are often done on branches of every tree in the ogham; each ogham letter on its own type of wood.

https://www.druidry.org/druid-way/teaching-and-practice/druid-tree-lore

There were apparently other secret alphabets for birds, flowers, all kinds of things.
 
This is about the Cheshire village of Appleton Thorn. A tree reputedly descended from one planted by a 12th century Crusader is honoured and decorated every May, in a ceremony revived in the 1930s.

Cheshire's 'friendliest village' that's 'an absolute wonder' with a much-loved tree at its heart

In the shadow of a stout sandstone church lies a squat, leafless, round tree. A plaque beneath tells the story of the Appleton Thorn.

Each Summer, children from the local primary school dress in red and white, carrying red ribbons to the hawthorn, and dance around the tree to the village choir singing ‘The Bawming Song’.

Such a tree has stood in the village since a crusading knight brought a cutting of the Holy Thorn from Glastonbury on his return in the 12th century.

It's only slightly off our route to Rixton for the Weird Weekend. Might pop along next time!
 
I think this fits in here,

Where are the rainforests? The Amazon? South-east Asia? How about mid and north Wales?

In fact, Wales is home to some of the last remaining examples of temperate rainforests in Europe. A rainforest is defined as any woodland that thrives in conditions where there is over 200cm of precipitation a year. While the flora and fauna of temperate rainforests differ from their tropical counterparts, they act as both a vital source of biodiversity and a massive carbon sink.

Another similarity they share is the inspiration for thousands of years of legends and folklore, many of which have a basis in scientific and geographical fact and act as cautionary tales about our misuse of the environment.


Tree in forest


"Although tales in Welsh folklore, such as the Mabinogion, are mythical, the places and environments they describe are very real indeed," according to Dr Juliette Wood, an expert in Welsh folklore at Cardiff University.

"They provide specific locations which can still be found today, and offer insights into how people interacted and managed the land on which they lived."

In Wales, there are four main areas of rainforest: Eryri, also known as Snowdonia, in Gwynedd; Cwm Einion, in Ceredigion; Cwm Doethie-Mynydd Mallaen, in Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire; and the Elan Valley. At their height 8,000 years ago, they helped form one contiguous forest from Wales to Scotland, and as recently as Roman times, provided a "Celtic super-highway" for the native Britons pushed north and west by the conquest.

Today they are managed by Celtic Rainforest Wales, a partnership of several woodland and wildlife charities funded by a nine-year EU grant.
At its peak, the rainforest would have covered 75% of Wales, according to Gethin Davies, senior manager at Celtic Rainforest Wales.
Imag

Welsh forest


"From a low of less than 5% [rainforest coverage] at the turn of the 20th Century, slowly we're clawing it back towards 10%," says Gethin Davies, of Celtic Rainforest Wales

"They include a mix of oak, ash, hazel, birch and willow, and provide a habitat for hundreds of species of wildlife, most famously the endangered horseshoe bat and pine marten. Historically they have been devastated by deforestation for farmland and timber, but today the biggest threats are climate change, human activity on the ground, and especially non-native species."

Possibly even more vital than the trees themselves is the ground-level ecoculture, which thrives in the dark and damp conditions under the canopy, which includes mosses, lichens, ferns and fungi. As well as retaining moisture for tree roots, these low-lying species act as an early warning system when the health of the forest is threatened by invasion, drought or air pollution.

While manual or herbicidal removal of invasive plants is possible, Mr Davies said they can sometimes do more harm than good to the ground flora. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-68310929
 
Back
Top