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The Misandry thread

Krepostnoi said:
Actually, broadcasting a racist remark to around 5 million people (I've only googled the ratings in a cursory manner) seems pretty confrontational to me.
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Yes, agreed, but of the two - which is the most confrontational, most obvious etc.?
 
Xanatic* said:
Yes, Clarkson messed up but in a way unrelated to his job. This Mustafa-woman specifically fails in her duties.
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These duties being as follows:

Welfare and Diversity Officer
Description
The Students' Union Welfare and Diversity Officer is a fulltime paid position elected via a cross campus ballot. The Welfare and Diversity Officer aims to increase the educational, social and personal welfare provision for students and ensure that the needs of the liberation groups of students are being met by the Students' Union and University. This role is fulfilled via the attendance of committees, producing reports or general student activism.
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Now, I'm willing to wager that straight white men are not one of the "liberation groups of students". If anything, assuming you buy into the idea that no publicity is bad publicity, she's actually been very effective at the last three words of her job description.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Yes, agreed, but of the two - which is the most confrontational, most obvious etc.?
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Ooh, my inner grammar nazi so wants to butt in at this point, but that will really not help.

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're driving at by asking me to come down on one side or the other. I don't think either of them has particularly done a good job in promoting harmonious race relations recently. As I said above, I'm really not that outraged by what she said. I can disagree with her without calling for her to fall on her sword. I was outraged by Clarkson's remark about the bridge, though. There's no excuse for casual racism as a cheap gag.
 
Just a simple agreement would be fine.
I know how people hate to agree with me. :D
 
"Now, I'm willing to wager that straight white men are not one of the "liberation groups of students"."

Isn't that part of the problem? It's equality, but only for some people. What she's done helps illustrate that. In that way she has failed in her duties, rather than in her job description.
 
drbates said:
Clarkson is neither here nor there. Yes he should have been disciplined for his comments...but he was making a lot of money for the BBC and, as we know, the BBC is not adverse to turning a blind eye for much greater crimes when it suits its purpose.

Besides which he is a modern day buffoon - a clown and a jester, and so is expected to outrage and poke fun.

A diversity officer, who presumably has political ambitions, must know better.
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Well, I quite agree with you about the BBC being way too willing to turn a blind eye. But I beg to differ over the rest of your post. I think Clarkson is a very apt comparison. I thought the role of the jester was to speak truth to power. Clarkson called for strikers to be shot. That's hardly shaking the certainty of the establishment, is it? Do him the same favour you did Mustafa, and parse that statement of his literally. Now how does it sound? Or is hyperbole restricted for use by middle-aged white men only?
 
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Xanatic* said:
"Now, I'm willing to wager that straight white men are not one of the "liberation groups of students"."

Isn't that part of the problem? It's equality, but only for some people. What she's done helps illustrate that. In that way she has failed in her duties, rather than in her job description.
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I confess I don't see the distinction between her duties and her job description. I guess the rationale behind the job description was that the predominant identity in Western society is straight white male, and so equality is best achieved by increasing participation by people from other backgrounds, from which it follows that those are the groups the officer should concentrate on. Whether one agrees with that or not, I don't think it's a particularly hard train of thought to follow.
 
Krepostnoi said:
I confess I don't see the distinction between her duties and her job description. I guess the rationale behind the job description was that the predominant identity in Western society is straight white male, and so equality is best achieved by increasing participation by people from other backgrounds, from which it follows that those are the groups the officer should concentrate on. Whether one agrees with that or not, I don't think it's a particularly hard train of thought to follow.
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But surely some of those straight white males could be useful to her in achieving the objective of greater equality for people who are NOT straight white males? Now she's made their participation impossible. Burned that little ol' bridge.
 
Mythopoeika said:
But surely some of those straight white males could be useful to her in achieving the objective of greater equality for people who are NOT straight white males? Now she's made their participation impossible. Burned that little ol' bridge.
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Has she? Really? Blimey, we straight white males are more delicate flowers than I realised. I tend to believe people are pretty set in their views, most of the time. Some straight white men have no truck with any of this diversity business. Nothing Mustafa says will sway them away from that, although they might seize upon this to entrench their views further. Some, on the other hand, might think there is value in having a wider range of people visible among the great and good. They might think it's an unfortunate thing to have said, but it's not really enough to push them into the other camp by itself, is it? It's not impossible that one or two waverers might be pushed into the nay-sayers camp, but I really doubt Mustafa by herself has caused great changes of opinion in either direction.
 
Krepostnoi said:
Do him the same favour you did Mustafa, and parse that statement of his literally. Now how does it sound? Or is hyperbole restricted for use by middle-aged white men only?
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@drbates, I owe you an apology, I got you confused with @drbastard, who was the one who took Mustafa's statement literally. Sorry. *Note to self: read more than the first four characters in someone's username*
 
Krepostnoi said:
Has she? Really? Blimey, we straight white males are more delicate flowers than I realised. I tend to believe people are pretty set in their views, most of the time. Some straight white men have no truck with any of this diversity business. Nothing Mustafa says will sway them away from that, although they might seize upon this to entrench their views further. Some, on the other hand, might think there is value in having a wider range of people visible among the great and good. They might think it's an unfortunate thing to have said, but it's not really enough to push them into the other camp by itself, is it? It's not impossible that one or two waverers might be pushed into the nay-sayers camp, but I really doubt Mustafa by herself has caused great changes of opinion in either direction.
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You miss my point. I meant their participation with HER.
The way she behaves will not make fair-minded straight white males suddenly start thinking in an 'unequal' fashion.
 
I guess my problem is that I'm hoping her job is to avoid discrimination, rather than to just try and discriminate against "the right people". I could of course be wrong, in which case she's doing a great job.
 
Mythopoeika said:
You miss my point. I meant their participation with HER.
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Apologies. In that case, please disregard my previous paragraph. I'm still not sure how many people will actually be affected, though. Wasn't this a one-off occasion?
 
I think the problem with Mustafa lies in her statement that as an ethnic minority female, it was impossible for her to be racist or sexist. That's just nonsensical.

When people start having opinions about "All men" or "All women" or "All whites" or "All Muslims" etc, it rings alarm bells with me. You can make generalisations about those groups, but you should acknowledge that they're just generalsations. Reality is much messier.

Whenever anyone starts generalising along the lines of "All X are Y" then what you're dealing with is naked prejudice, expressed from a position of power. And that's ugly. Very ugly.
 
graylien said:
I think the problem with Mustafa lies in her statement that as an ethnic minority female, it was impossible for her to be racist or sexist. That's just nonsensical.

When people start having opinions about "All men" or "All women" or "All whites" or "All Muslims" etc, it rings alarm bells with me. You can make generalisations about those groups, but you should acknowledge that they're just generalsations. Reality is much messier.

Whenever anyone starts generalising along the lines of "All X are Y" then what you're dealing with is naked prejudice, expressed from a position of power. And that's ugly. Very ugly.
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At last! A post in this thread I can wholeheartedly agree with :D
 
Yes, ethnic minority 'feminists' can be racist and sexist
by Aki Muthali

Upholding the cause of girls in Nigeria, Iraq and Syria by Boko Haram and IS should be more important for feminists than a fictional character from Game of Thrones

By now, we’ve all heard of the name ‘Bahar Mustafa’ – the “Diversity Officer” of a British university who infamouslybanned white people and men from attending a so-called “anti-racism” event. Mustafa defended her racist and sexist attitude by claiming she can be neither racist nor sexist because of her “ethnic minority” status.

To be clear, Mustafa used Feminism as a front to push her racist and sexist bile and later justified her abuse by erroneously defining racism and sexism to suit her convenience. For those post-modern Western feminists who have a hard time deciphering what “Racism” actually is – it’s not defined by personal financial, social and political authority – Racism is solely measured by contemptuous attitudes toward the skin colour and geography of persons and is perpetuated through racial hostility from the poorest to the wealthiest of citizens from across the globe.

When Mustafa’s belligerence was met with the backlash it very well deserved – she garnered support from other pseudo feminists who defended her blatant racism and sexism by regurgitating not only her “as an ethnic minority….” nonsense, but also cited “free speech”. Apparently, she’s a knight in shining armour who merely tried to create a “safe space” for blacks and ethnic minorities by using the hashtag “#KillAllWhiteMen” and racist slurs like “white trash”. This new breed of unicorns are flaunting their new-age racism and sexism as Feminism and feeding the anti-feminist and misogynistic trolls that fuel the invalidation of authentic Feminism. ...

http://nation.com.pk/blogs/24-May-2015/yes-ethnic-minority-feminists-can-be-racist-and-sexist
 
I expect this lady will just get a police caution on her record. And the sack from her current position. If I started up hash tag kill all women, I'd expect a police helicopter with back up before the end of the day.
 
Swifty said:
I expect this lady will just get a police caution on her record. And the sack from her current position. If I started up hash tag kill all women, I'd expect a police helicopter with back up before the end of the day.
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She should be deported. But not back to the part of Cyprus occupied by Turkish Imperialists. Send her to Turkey.
 
dreeness . said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...on-officer-over-kill-all-white-men-tweet.html

Can you believe this?!

Since when is inciting murder a crime??

:mad:
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For a pretty long time.

Incitement was a named offence under English Common Law. It was abolished and replaced a few years ago. I think the offence which will be looked at in this case is 'Soliciting To Murder' and I also suspect that no action beyond a formal or informal slap on the wrist will be forthcoming.

I'm kind of surprised though that anyone else is surprised that the act of encouraging others to kill should not be worthy of some kind of investigation - at least part of the point of which will be to separate acts of ridiculous posturing hyperbole from actual intent to encourage others to commit a serious crime. I can't think it's particularly outrageous.
 
Spookdaddy said:
For a pretty long time.

Incitement was a named offence under English Common Law. It was abolished and replaced a few years ago. I think the offence which will be looked at in this case is 'Soliciting To Murder' and I also suspect that no action beyond a formal or informal slap on the wrist will be forthcoming.

I'm kind of surprised though that anyone else is surprised that the act of encouraging others to kill should not be worthy of some kind of investigation - at least part of the point of which will be to separate acts of ridiculous posturing hyperbole from actual intent to encourage others to commit a serious crime. I can't think it's particularly outrageous.
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(I was attempting to be facetious.)
 
dreeness . said:
(I was attempting to be facetious.)
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Know what - I thought maybe you were as soon as I posted, but then got distracted writing something else. Haven't been around for a while and my irony antenna has not calibrated yet.
 
drbates said:
I know! I'm AMAZED that the police as bothering with something like this to be honest.

Amazed, but very pleased. I hope they throw the book at her. Sadly some in the community will see it as a badge of honour, and she'll get a job in an organisation with like-'minded' people, instead of scrubbing the toilets at MacDonalds, which is all she's fit for.
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A little harsh don't you think? .. she just comes across as a spoilt kid from a wealthy family and looking for attention. If I was a Judge, I'd just give her an informal caution. If she had any previous for this sort of thing, I'd give her a formal caution and at the worst, a little bit of community service working with disadvantaged people ... it would depend on her attitude in court.
 
Swifty said:
A little harsh don't you think? .. she just comes across as a spoilt kid from a wealthy family and looking for attention. If I was a Judge, I'd just give her an informal caution. If she had any previous for this sort of thing, I'd give her a formal caution and at the worst, a little bit of community service working with disadvantaged people ... it would depend on her attitude in court.
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People have been prosecuted and convicted for posting less than she has. Deport the Turkish Imperialist Settler!
 
ramonmercado said:
People have been prosecuted and convicted for posting less than she has. Deport the Turkish Imperialist Settler!
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I know and they shouldn't have been IMO .. yes, she's an arse hole so I take her about as seriously as a school kid telling another one "You're dead after school". Not giving her the kudos of a sentence is probably the best way to not 'feed the troll' ... to take the wind out from beneath her wings.
 
Swifty said:
I know and they shouldn't have been IMO .. yes, she's an arse hole so I take her about as seriously as a school kid telling another one "You're dead after school". Not giving her the kudos of a sentence is probably the best way to not 'feed the troll' ...
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OK, just deport The Turkish Imperialist then!
 
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