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The MMR Vaccine & Its Alleged Risks

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MMR Vaccine

Ok so thers been a lot of publicity about MMR etc... but ive been told that the single jabs have problems too!.. Any doctors out there?... it seems the single jabs are kept sterile with a tiny amount of Murcury and when all given can add up to an amount exceeding safety levels....!(as an aside our lad Harry 22 months has had the MMR ).....
 
Give us the choice I say!

Oh sorry, I thought this was a democracy....
 
My eldest boy has childhood epilepsy which I believe was caused by the MMR, my youngest boy has had the single jabs (my bank account is still hurting!)..I really don't know if there are safety issues concerning the single jabs but in my opinion (and it's just mine, people can have the MMR if they wish) for my son it was the safest option to have them singly.

Off my soapbox now........:)
 
Please do not read if easily offended

The MMR 'controversy' really annoys me. Would people rather have measles back? A few middle class whingers who can't accept that some kids are not going to be perfect combined with a dodgy doctor and a media that doesn't appear to understand basic scientific concepts, and suddenly its panic in the streets time.

There is no evidence that MMR causes any problems. Its this simple, if you give all kids MMR, you're giving it to some who would have developed problems whether or not they'd had the jab. As it happens MMR is given at around the same time when certain conditions (eg autism) start to become apparent, but this does not mean there's a causal link.

The real problem is that we live in a culture where people believe that somehow they've got an inalienable right for bad things not to happen to them. This tendency is magnified when it comes to people's children. From refusal to accept that their little darlings are scumbag vandals and arsonists, to the refusal to acept that some kids die and get injured and its just an accident, you see the same pattern.

In the case of MMR, we see the same middle class whiners who feel that someone has to be to blame for their trophy kid isn't going to be something they can boast about like the house and car, at work. Its giving into this lobby that's given rise to the sour joke that the difference between diagnosis of dyslexia and moderate learning difficulties is dependent on property values.

And as for this crap about choice, MMR is given because its the most effective method of protecting kids against really viscious diseases. It might not fit into the paradigm of the me generation, but this is one of those times when you're up against brute fact, and your denial of this is putting others at risk. Believe it or not, the majority of doctors want to prevent disease, and have kids of their own. What motive would they have for supporting MMR if it wasn't the safest thing we've got for immunisation?

Similarly, most scientific research is accurate, and many things are well understood by science. Some so-called Forteans might not like this to be the case, but it is after all the whole reason that we can be arguing 'here'. What motive would there be for researchers covering up adverse affects from MMR?

However, we can easily see the interlinked motives of the publicity hungry doctor who started this, the ever more trivial media, and the vultures offering single jabs on the private. They're the ones benefiting from this whole farce.

I'd like to be able to say that I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, but this is an episode of such stunning cutural idiocy that I really don't care.
 
Well i agree with wintermute but not quite so loadly... to think that u may have done somthing that gave your child brain damage is such a terrible thing, well it upsets me to think of it.

But ive sat in a Baby group and heard the women talking about the Telly progs about it all. And all u see is what can be filmed ie tragicly disabled children and their desperate parents. Never the ones who havent been damaged by Measels or Mumps.. And ive seen the hushed tones as they discus a child who one of thier children has played with has developed Measels.....

Forty u have a choice down here u can take ur child to some cowboy caravan of Doctors who think the Hipocratic Oath is what u saw to troublesome aquatic African animals. They are like Pirates surfing in. The mothers desperate and worried queing up and probably going hungry so they are "doing the best" for thier children....... Screaming children, betrayed by thier protectors as they endure jab upon jab.......


Our Doc admited that he didnt have his kids done till he saw the mediacl journal results of a measels epidemic in Ireland and he did it next day.... btu as is the moden docors way we had to say to him ..."what is your opinion and we wont balme u or sue u..."
 
Thank you Witermute, I totally agree with everything you say, lets hope common sense prevails.
 
I have reached my thirty something years old and have never had a vaccination for anything , not tetanus , whooping cough,nothing . My mother was very anti doctors when I was a kid ! I had my kids done with the usual stuff , though a few years later then the usual age though I did miss out the whooping cough one ( there are sinister rumours of a secret home for children damaged by the whooping cough vaccine not too many miles away - very ULish ) . It is pretty well established now that dogs can get auto-immine problems following vaccines , I still have my dog given a booster every year . You have to wiegh it all up.
Marion
 
Some studies appear to show a rise in autism since the introduction of MMR. Other studies disagree. The studies that get the publicity (and the money?) are the ones which vindicate government policy. Our beloved leader has still not said (as far as I know) whether or not the sprog has had MMR or not.

Is choice (MMR or single vaccines) so bad?

Is the idea of a definitive large-scale study so bad?

Wouldn't you rather be sure? I'm not a parent, but I think I'd be worried.

Maybe the apparent rise in autism is due to better and earlier diagnosis, maybe it is caused by MMR. Wouldn't you like answers instead of conjecture?

The government keep assuring us that MMR is safe. Remember the assurances that there was no link between BSE and variant CJD? Remember the u-turn, the new rules for abattoirs?

There have been 2 cases of measles reported in Scotland in the last day or so - the first for 2 years. When I had measles over 30 years ago, I had a few miserable days and an itchy rash - the 'normal' reaction. I was surprised to learn that measles could be lethal, and, since it's not the 'ordinary kid's disease' that I thought it was, wouldn't want to see it return. However, is it fair to ask parents to make the choice between protection against a disease that may, very occasionally, prove fatal, and a vaccine that may, occasionally, ruin or radically alter their children's lives?

(PS, I was vaccinated against smallpox, a disease that no longer exists 'in the wild'. If MMR were to eradicate measles worldwide, I'd say that a temporary rise in autism may be a price worth paying. But if we're not eradicating measles, dare we take the risk?)
 
(sigh) vaccinations again...
jon, remember our discussion on this subject (with variations?)
My belief is that if there IS a link between MMR and autism, etc it can probably be traced to mercury based preservatives. These preservatives are used not just in volatile vaccine cultures but in all kinds of things and can cause many different problems. If nothing else, maybe this controversey will cause the general public to ask their health professionals more informed questions instead of raging at them after the fact (when something tragic happens). And maybe, people will start to READ those hand outs you are given which explain risks and possible side effects, etc.
As a veteran of single jabs (pre MMR) and the mother of a young child, I would still trust the effectiveness of disease prevention over the mostly minimal risks.
 
This subject of pro and anti MMR studies has been examined pretty fully in Private Eye. They say problems with the studies that show MMR to be safe is that either they were carried out without specific reference to Autism or they are Meta-studies of these studies. What is needed is a proper study of both methods of vaccinations, where brain function both before and after vaccination is examined. There also needs to be 5 and 10 year follow-ups.

In respect of Mercury. Vaccines are not only made up of attenuated or dead viruses they also include preservatives and substances called Adjuvants. These are nasty mixtures containing mineral oils (Freunds Adjuvant both complete - FCA - and incomplete -FIC), Mercury (Thimersol) aluminium, phenol and formaldahyde.

Adjuvants are added because vaccines alone have little chance of stimulating immunity. It is worth noting that Freunds Adjuvant is not only poisonous it is corrosive to flesh. Adjuvants have been implicated in several nasty side effects of vaccination

For information about how dangerous these illnesses are visit these pages formeasles ,mumps and rubella

Please not that the risk of complications indicated in these pages are for all ages of persons who contract it. In general the effects will be more severe in the adult and the vey young (sub 1 yo) child. If someone could supply figures about admitted vaccine damage and death it would be helpful.
 
A couple of times when anoyed by some mum acusening me of child abuse by haveing Harry have the MMR i have pointed out that they are relying on everyone else to have it so thier darling can be protected from desease.....

Aside wise i was astounded the hear that in USA its contructively compusory to have the MMR....No MMR no school, No school $500 fine or prison!!!!!!!... of course u have the choice to send to private school... as ever the poor dont get a choice, just a stick to beat them...
 
DerekH said:
Some studies appear to show a rise in autism since the introduction of MMR. Other studies disagree.

I think a lot more people are diagnosed as having Asperger's these days simply because even the mildest cases are recognised now ( I read quite a few sites on it recently in the search for what might be wrong with my 16 year old son ). It might be possible that people who are diagnosed with Asperger's get classed as being autistic where they didn't used to or by people who want the figures to fit what they believe ?
Marion
 
My dad, who is almost 70 and has a variety (!) of medical problems visited his GP a couple of years ago after cutting his hand. The GP asked when he last had a tetanus booster, and discovered that my dad was 'up to date': his comment then was 'I should probably just give boosters anyway, just to be sure.'

As for Asperger's/autism/anything else (and I don't want to belittle any of these), yes, I suspect that diagnoses depend on 'flavour of the month', that expert confirmation is lacking, and that it will take a lot of money and time on a world-wide basis to ensure that what we do to 'protect' our children is actually in their best interests.

The problem whith MMR (as Private Eye has mentioned) is that we don't know if it causes other problems - we're relying on fairly small, short-term studies. If the symptoms of autism don't show until later, it's not included, or 'it would have happened anyway' - sorry, but I don't believe that it's necessarily true.

The bottom line seems to be that MMR is 'more cost effective' (i.e. cheaper) than single vaccine, so that's the way to go. Various studies suggest that, cost aside, there's a greater risk of harming those we're meant to be protecting than with single vaccine. Surely we have a duty to be sure (and safe)?

For those who's kids have had the triple jab without problems - fine. It worked OK. But if they had then been diagnosed autistic...?
 
I know measles is a killer, but what of mumps and rubella (german measles). I had mumps and never felt that ill, is it so bad?
German measles is just a bad rash as far as I'm aware, OK it can cause problems with pregnant women, but if everyone caught it as a child all the unborn babies would be safe.
In my opinion all these jabs do nothing but weaken our normal immunity to other dieases, but I can't medically prove it of course.
 
Mumps and Rubella would appear to have an insignificant mortality rate (ie smaller than 1 in 10,000) and the complications notably exclude long term damage, apart from a very small risk of permanent hearing loss with mumps.

The encephalitus and meningitus mentioned seem to be symptomatic rather than the illnesses we normally associate with those words. Certainly permanant damage is not reported as significant (compare measles). The major risk appears to be to the post pubertal.

This raises the question of why it is necessary to innoculate such young children against these diseases considering that vaccine damage, of the acknowledged sort, will be at least as common.

One more note the term insignificant risk although coming into use at incidences of smaller than 1 in 10,000 may well be much smaller than that.
 
When our daughter had hers it felt to me like we were sending her off to her death but of course nothing happened and she is fine and bi-lingual at 18 months old. The phrase 'damned if you are and damned if you do not' springs to mind it important to remember that measles and the other illnesses are a very real threat rather than the side effects which may or may not exist not that us forteans will ever be happy with the official line anyway it is against our nature, you just gotta make a choice you are happy with.
 
good point 101, you do what you judge to be best for your children and take the advice you most trust. My point was simple:

According to the official statistics only measles is a *real* threat to infants. So why are we mixing the vaccines?
 
Why mix the vaccinces? money of course but there were claims that a triple vaccine works better than the single jabs......
 
MMR

Our seven year old son is autistic, caused by the MMR jab, we cant prove it nor can other parents of autistic kids.Some parents know that the MMR has caused autism in their children and some know that there was something wrong with their child before the jab. There is no way the Goverment/drug companies/doctors are going to admit it as it would cost them millions. When I was a kid all my friends had measles, mumps etc no big problem, but having an autistic child can at times be Hell.
 
Michael, you have all my sympathy. You hit the nail on the head when you said it would cost the govt. millions. I, too , cannot prove that the MMR caused my sons epilepsy, in fact most health professionals have said that it does not but my own research has proved otherwise. He definistely changed after the jab.

I get a little sick of being called hysterical, stupid and irresponsible for having the guts to think for myself.

Anyway, rant over, I bet your son, like mine, is a real sweetie.......
 
He is

Blueswidow, thanks, he looks like an angel, can be one, can also be a deamon!.
 
MMR Vaccine.

Although this may not seem a Fortean subject, I believe there is a degree of mind controll at work, the recent furore obout the MMR vaccine, for example.
 
One of my kids was among the first in the country to have it.
I'd gone for tetanus jab after an accident and I'd taken my youngest to see me have it, on the grounds that she'd know that injections were nowt to be frit of...

Anyway, the nurse offered to give Shorty the wonder jab which had just come out. Being a big fan of vaccination/innoculation because of my job I readily agreed.

Luckily the child in question was not a baby but nearly school age. I shudder to think how dangerous it might have been. I do not now believe it to be safe, at least for babies.
 
There is no evidence that MMR causes any problems.

In the case of MMR, we see the same middle class whiners who feel that someone has to be to blame for their trophy kid isn't going to be something they can boast about like the house and car, at work. .

Six years ago I watched my daughter change from a bubbly baby whose developement caused no concern, to a child who lost her ability to move her limbs, lost her ability to communicate, lost her ability to smile, lost her ability to focus her eyes and lost her ability to eat. All this started immediately after a vaccination! Today she has regained the ability to smile and little else. But her smile makes her an angel. YOU, on the otherhand, wintermute, are a maggot!

I seriously hope you are never disabled in your life, wintermute, because I don't think you would be able to mentally handle the situation.


The reason the controversy annoys you is because you want to have an opinion about everything, even when you don't have a clue. There IS evidence that MMR and vaccines cause problems, and I would have thought that someone on a Fortean site would think of looking for it rather than quoting the 'daytime tv' party line.

Yes she is my trophy child, because through her disability, I have become more understanding, more compassionate (to all except idiots), and have learnt to put up with those who stare, and those insist on telling me that vaccines could not have caused her disability, when they know absolutely nothing about the subject.
 
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A parent of an autistic child writes..

: The reason the controversy annoys you is because you want to have an opinion about everything, even when you don't have a clue. There IS evidence that MMR and vaccines cause problems, and I would have thought that someone on a Fortean site would think of looking for it rather than quoting the 'daytime tv' party line.

Yes she is my trophy child, because through her disability, I have become more understanding, more compassionate (to all except idiots), and have learnt to put up with those who stare, and those insist on telling me that vaccines could not have caused her disability, when they know absolutely nothing about the subject.

I know stacks about the subject, Lutzman. I sympathise deeply with the terrible disability your daughter endures, and sincerely respect and empathise the love you hold for her.

That having been said, I disagree deeply with what you write. I would have thought "someone on a Fortean site" would look dispassionately at the evidence, rather than allowing subjective experience to cloud their judgement. Yes, in some cases any vaccine will cause problems, but in the vast majority they do not: the decision not to vaccinate can have as serious consequences (I have a relative, non-vaccinated by parental choice, who is now profoundly deaf due to contracting measles). My son is autistic, symptoms became more pronounced post-MMR but as this is the developmental age at which these diagnostic markers become more apparent it can just as easily be ascribed to coincidence as cause and effect. Our niece was not immunised and has still gone on to be diagnosed as autistic - which would suggest that autism is a genetic problem first and foremost: the huge swell in positive diagnoses is probably as much due to greater awareness of the condition as anything else. Whether or not the MMR merely accelerates a genetic predisposition is the subject of much medical research at present. I am not suggesting that your daughter's tragic condition wasn't caused by the MMR, but to ascribe all disabilities contracted or diagnosed at that age to a single vaccine is as misguided as to ascribe none.

Accusing other board members of being "a maggot" or indirectly as an "idiot" for merely holding an opposing point of view to yourself is neither constructive nor polite. Furthermore by doing so you erode the great deal of compassion people hold for parents such as you, and me, who deal 24/7 with the impact and heartache such conditions imply. We put up with stares in the supermarket, we put up with people who tell us he should not have been vaccinated, but we answer them with tolerance and dignity. Perhaps you should do the same.
 
Triple vaccines BEFORE MMR....

When I was about to have our eldest child 'done' with the normal triple vaccine my husband's family told me about his cousin who was, they assured me, brain-damaged by it.

At the time his parents were in the process of sueing the NHS for damages for this young man ('D') and told everyone who would listen about him.

I went to see 'D' and, having worked with people who had been known until shortly before then as 'subnormals', decided that he fell into the category of 'born like that' and after much discussion with the experts went on to have Kid 1 and all 3 subsequent babies fully vaccinated.

No ill-effects arose though I've always had a niggling doubt- what if I'd been wrong?

The feeling in my husband's family is that 'D' was indeed 'born like that' and that his parents blamed the vaccine because they couldn't bear to think it was their own 'fault'.

I have come across 'D' in my professional capacity several times over the years and his deterioration has been pitiful. If, as his parents still insist, he is indeed vaccine-damaged, then he's no advert for vaccination.

However-
I worked years ago with children who had become handicapped and eventually institutionalised after complications arising from childhood illnesses. I knew that, for example, encephalitis and meningitis could follow measles and chicken pox, leading to brain damage and death or permanent handicap.

I had severe measles myself as a child and was expected to come out of it blind, deaf or less able than before, if at all.

All of the above is my own personal experience of the pros and cons of vaccination.
The official government and medical line has always been that we MUST vaccinate and nothing can go wrong.
But as others have mentioned, governments can be wrong, notably about BSE.

I had to make my mind up and decided to go for it. For our family it was right. But I wonder sometimes how much luck had to do with it.

Oh yes- and I was always told by the staff when I took a kid for vaccination that I should come back next week if he/she had any illness, no matter how trivial, even a runny nose.

So if it all went horribly wrong, could the doctors blame the mother for letting Junior have the vaccine when he was under the weather? Hard to prove but an easy allegation to make. And mothers are prone to guilt.
 
It is easy to blame a vaccine for problems that arise in a child and even though not a parent myself, I would imagine there would be an overwhelming desire to blame *something* for any condition that arises.
I have had a child in my class for two years with autism, and attended several training sessions on Aspergers syndrome. The parents in question know that their child appeared "normal" until he had the MMR, however I don't see that we can attribute the condition to the vaccine without more proof.
It is true that in my years of teaching far more children are coming through the system diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum, but is this because there are more children? Or is it because we diagnose even milder cases now, whereas a few years back these children would have just been seen as "a bit odd" in their mannerisms? There may be some other environmental reason for the increase in numbers. It would be very difficult to ascertain IMO.
 
As I've mentioned before our seven year old is autistic, we know that it was caused by the MMR but cannot prove it, its never going to be admitted by the goverment, medical profession etc, as it would cost millions, I spoke to an immunologist and asked him if he had given his children the MMR, his reply, "No way". Says a lot in my opinion!
 
Stu

If the compassion people hold for parents of vaccine damaged children is being called a 'middle class whinger', then I for one can live without it.

I have spent six years practising tolerance, but when someone boldly states that there is NO evidence of vaccines damaging children, my blood starts to boil. I may not have a signed document proving it, but I do know that a simple search on the web will show many sites dealing with this issue.

Hearing that the only concern I have for my child is that I will not be able to boast about her achievements, when I have seen her life ruined, is not an opposing point of view. Its 'in your face' rudeness.

Sometimes you have to put tolerance to the side and kick a**.
 
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