The MMR Vaccine & Its Alleged Risks

escargot

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Here in the UK youngsters have been known to have the jabs their parents don't approve of, if the kids are judged to be mature enough to take that decision. Teenage girls have had the rubella and HPV vaccines, for example.

If this lad and his father both want him to have it then he's home and dry.

I'm a committed vaxxer. My older sisters didn't have them but I dropped lucky. My own kids were little pincushions.

If my parents had tried to prevent my having the vacs I'd've certainly had them anyway, but luckily the 'rents were keen.
 

Min Bannister

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The vaccine thing seems to be particularly toxic (pardon the pun) in the US. I listen to a couple of "alternative" health podcasts from there as I am a sucker for punishment and they talk about it a lot. Though the woman who went on about the government putting Ebola in the flu vaccines went rather quiet when the expected Ebola epidemic failed to materialise (though it was okay for listeners as she sold a product to cure it). It does sound (if I can believe anything they say) as if there are perhaps rather too many that they are expected (by law?) to have.
 
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Fears over another vaccine.

Fears over a dengue vaccine in the Philippines have led to a big drop in immunisation rates for preventable diseases, officials have warned.

Health Under-Secretary Enrique Domingo said many parents were refusing to get their children vaccinated for polio, chicken pox and tetanus.

The fears centre on Dengvaxia, a drug developed by French company Sanofi.

Sanofi and local experts say there is no evidence linking the deaths of 14 children to the drug.

However, the company had warned last year that the vaccine could make the disease worse in some people not infected before.

Dengue fever affects more than 400 million people each year around the world. Dengvaxia is the world's first vaccine against dengue.

The mosquito-borne disease is a leading cause of serious illness and death among children in some Asian and Latin American countries, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42929255
 

Ghost In The Machine

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Here in the UK youngsters have been known to have the jabs their parents don't approve of, if the kids are judged to be mature enough to take that decision. Teenage girls have had the rubella and HPV vaccines, for example.

If this lad and his father both want him to have it then he's home and dry.

I'm a committed vaxxer. My older sisters didn't have them but I dropped lucky. My own kids were little pincushions.

If my parents had tried to prevent my having the vacs I'd've certainly had them anyway, but luckily the 'rents were keen.
My older kids had it all because I believed in herd immunity back then, quite passionately, too. The three younger kids had most but not all the vaccines, because of No 2 developing autism post the MMR vaccine - and being one of a group of kids who developed it from that very batch of the vaccine. As I posted above, a pattern emerged of groups of kids being affected by specific batches. But, IIRC, there were two or three manufacturers involved - it wasn't just rogue batches of one manufacturer's vaccine. And that fact, on its own, was enough for me to swerve the MMR on my younger kids.

They all know what they have and haven't had - and why. And they currently range between 15 - 23; the older two have chosen not to have the vaccination in adulthood. Although it's my view it would now pose no risk to them, as the etiology seemed to be, that the vaccine was administered precisely at the time babies/toddlers are having certain neurological developments and older siblings vaccinated even from the same batch, on the same day, were unaffected.

I am glad my older sons have so far chosen not to remediate but of course, if they should in the future, I will totally support their decisions, of course, cos they're adults.
 

escargot

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As I've mentioned, when the MMR came out we happened to be in the right place at the right time for my youngest to be offered it on the spot, and I gratefully accepted.
 
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The antivaxxers are also against the HPV Vaccine.

Journal retracts paper claiming neurological damage from HPV vaccine
By Dennis NormileMay. 11, 2018 , 12:25 PM

Scientific Reports this morning retracted a controversial paper claiming to show that mice given a human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine showed signs of neurological damage. The paper was assailed by critics as being "pseudoscience" that could have "devastating" health consequences by undermining public confidence in a vaccine given to girls to prevent cervical cancer.

"I'm pleased that finally they did manage to retract it, but it was a very long process," says Alex Vorsters, a molecular biologist at University of Antwerp in Belgium. However, the controversy seems likely to continue. "The Authors do not agree with the retraction," the retraction notice states.

The paper, by a group led by Toshihiro Nakajima of Tokyo Medical University, was published online 11 November 2016. It describes impaired mobility and brain damage in mice given an enormous dose of HPV vaccine along with a toxin that makes the blood-brain barrier leaky. Shortly after the paper appeared, two groups separately wrote to Scientific Reports and its publisher, the Nature Publishing Group (NPG), pointing out problems with the experimental setup, the use of a dose proportionally far larger than what is normally given, the use of the toxin, and inconsistencies between the data presented and the descriptions of results, among other issues. ...

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...ly_2018-05-11&et_rid=394299689&et_cid=2028171
 
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Russian Trolls spreading disinformation about vaccines online.

Social media bots and Russian trolls have been spreading disinformation about vaccines on Twitter to create social discord and distribute malware, US researchers say.

Troll accounts that had attempted to influence the US election had also been tweeting about vaccines, a study says.

Many posted both pro- and anti-vaccination messages to create "false equivalency", the study found.

It examined thousands of tweets sent between 2014 and 2017.

Vaccination was being used by trolls and sophisticated bots as a "wedge issue", said Mark Dredze from Johns Hopkins University.

"By playing both sides, they erode public trust in vaccination, exposing us all to the risk of infectious diseases," he said.

Earlier this month, the World Health Organization (WHO) said cases of measles in Europe had hit a record high, with experts blaming this surge in infections on a drop in the number of people being vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45294192
 
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Now the mullahs have joined the anti-vaxxers.

Indonesian ‘vaccine fatwa’ sends measles immunization rates plummeting
By Dyna Rochmyaningsih Nov. 7, 2018 , 3:05 PM

As the bell rang on a recent morning at an elementary school here and pupils filled the classrooms, anxious adults crowded the corridors outside. It was vaccination day, but many parents in this North Sumatra village did not want their children immunized with a new measles-rubella (MR) vaccine. Some told the teacher their children were at home, not feeling well. Others were there to make sure their kids didn't get the jab. They whispered the reason with disgust: The vaccine "contains elements of pork." By the time the vaccination team left, only six out of 38 students had been immunized.

Millions of parents around Indonesia have eschewed the vaccine in recent months, after Islamic clerics declared the MR vaccine "haram," or forbidden under Islamic law because pig components are used in its manufacturing. Vaccine coverage has plummeted as a result, alarming public health experts who worry that the world's largest Muslim-majority country could see new waves of measles and more miscarriages and birth defects resulting from rubella infections during pregnancy.

Indonesia has long used a locally produced measles vaccine as part of its childhood vaccination scheme, but coverage has been patchy, and until recently, the country had one of the highest measles burdens in the world, according to the World Health Organization (WHO). Last year, as part of a WHO-led plan to eliminate measles and rubella globally by 2020, Indonesia switched to a combined MR vaccine, produced by the Serum Institute of India in Mumbai. The Ministry of Health launched an ambitious catchup campaign targeting 67 million children aged 9 months to 15 years. The first phase, in 2017 on the island of Java, was a success; all six provinces reached the 95% coverage target, and measles and rubella cases dropped by more than 90%. ...

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...ly_2018-11-07&et_rid=394299689&et_cid=2474395
 

escargot

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Now the mullahs have joined the anti-vaxxers.

Indonesian ‘vaccine fatwa’ sends measles immunization rates plummeting
By Dyna Rochmyaningsih Nov. 7, 2018 , 3:05 PM

As the bell rang on a recent morning at an elementary school here and pupils filled the classrooms, anxious adults crowded the corridors outside. It was vaccination day, but many parents in this North Sumatra village did not want their children immunized with a new measles-rubella (MR) vaccine. Some told the teacher their children were at home, not feeling well. Others were there to make sure their kids didn't get the jab. They whispered the reason with disgust: The vaccine "contains elements of pork." By the time the vaccination team left, only six out of 38 students had been immunized.

Millions of parents around Indonesia have eschewed the vaccine in recent months, after Islamic clerics declared the MR vaccine "haram," or forbidden under Islamic law because pig components are used in its manufacturing. Vaccine coverage has plummeted as a result, alarming public health experts who worry that the world's largest Muslim-majority country could see new waves of measles and more miscarriages and birth defects resulting from rubella infections during pregnancy.

Indonesia has long used a locally produced measles vaccine as part of its childhood vaccination scheme, but coverage has been patchy, and until recently, the country had one of the highest measles burdens in the world, according to the World Health Organization (WHO). Last year, as part of a WHO-led plan to eliminate measles and rubella globally by 2020, Indonesia switched to a combined MR vaccine, produced by the Serum Institute of India in Mumbai. The Ministry of Health launched an ambitious catchup campaign targeting 67 million children aged 9 months to 15 years. The first phase, in 2017 on the island of Java, was a success; all six provinces reached the 95% coverage target, and measles and rubella cases dropped by more than 90%. ...

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...ly_2018-11-07&et_rid=394299689&et_cid=2474395

I 'liked' this not because it's likeable but to acknowledge how serious it is. A massive pool of infection.
 

Tribble

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They whispered the reason with disgust: The vaccine "contains elements of pork."
Traces of pig-derived gelatine. There's a version of the vaccine available that doesn't contain it. I'm guessing Indonesia has access to that version. Here's the UK's MMR ingredients :


Apart from the active ingredients (the antigens), MMR vaccines may contain very small amounts of these ingredients:

  • highly purified gelatine derived from pigs, used as a stabiliser (MMRVaxPro only; the other MMR vaccine used in the UK, Priorix, does not contain gelatine).
  • sorbitol or mannitol, used as stabilisers
  • polysorbate 80, used as an emulsifier (to hold other ingredients together)
  • recombinant human serum albumin, used as a stabiliser (MMRVaxPro only)
MMRVaxPro and Priorix may both contain traces of neomycin, an antibiotic used in the production process to stop bacteria growing and contaminating the vaccine.

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/mmr-vaccine

(also note : the MMR doesn't contain thiomersal/thimerosal (mercury) and never has, since the MMR is a live vaccine)
 
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The antivaxxers strike again, this time with a worrying outcome.

A private school in North Carolina has reportedly been hit by the state’s worst chickenpox outbreak in over two decades.

Buncombe County’s health department suggested that parents claiming religious exemptions to the state’s vaccination requirements have contributed to the outbreak at the Asheville Waldorf School, CNN reports.

As of Friday, officials documented at least 36 chickenpox cases at the school, according to the Asheville Citizen-Times.
State data indicate that many parents at the school have claimed religious objections to North Carolina’s vaccination requirements. The school has one of the highest recorded rates of religious exemptions to vaccines in the state.

The school is asking kids diagnosed with the disease to stay at home. Since it can take 21 days for children exposed to chickenpox to show symptoms, classmates of contagious students are also being asked to stay home too, CNN reports.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...cid=newsltushpmgnews__TheMorningEmail__112118
 

XEPER_

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So does it cause autism or not? You'd think they'd have been able to gather enough data to prove it conclusively by now.
 

Frideswide

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There isn't anything to indicate that it does.

I am autistic, an autism advocate, have studied it at both the OU and Scotland's academic centre for autism, I keep up with, take part in and respond to current research. I'm saying that in an attempt to summarise why I say that! :D
 

Coal

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There isn't anything to indicate that it does.

I am autistic, an autism advocate, have studied it at both the OU and Scotland's academic centre for autism, I keep up with, take part in and respond to current research. I'm saying that in an attempt to summarise why I say that! :D
...and they struck off the Doctor who started the whole scare off...

I've read some, nowhere near what Frides has I'm sure, but it's currently not even correlated, never mind a causative link...
*Coal waits for Frides to correct him*
 

Fairlight

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Hello All,

I feel I am in a position to comment with some authority on this topic, and having read the prior postings, I think and hope that I can add something of value from my own first-hand experience relating to Autism and possible links to the MMR vaccine. I am very much aware of how highly charged and emotive this topic is and I understand and empathise with those who in articulating very strongly held beliefs have from time to time expressed anger or been dismissive of those with contrary beliefs. I am aware that some forum members also have first-hand and ongoing experience of caring for family members who are Autistic and they have my understanding, support and admiration.

So, where to start?....My eldest son is severely Autistic, and immediately for me this raises questions about the usefulness of the term “Autistic”, the Autism “spectrum” as it’s called is so wide that it must be almost impossible for most people to really get a handle on, and in over twenty years of dealing with “specialist” clinicians, I think I’m pretty safe in concluding that they often don’t have much of a clue either. (this may seem a little harsh, the majority are doing their best to help and are conscientious and committed but nevertheless, diagnoses, advice/interventions etc have often been unhelpful or just plain wrong and often parents/carers have to spend precious time and energy trying to limit/undo the damage caused by the “experts”) I am perfectly serious about this and in our case the evidence is there that on every occassion, starting from the earliest stages of diagnosis, where there has been a difference of opinion, we, his parents, have been right and various speech and language/behavioural etc specialists have been wrong. I mention this partly to point out that, for many people in a debate like this they are reliant on “experts in the field” to inform their opinions, best of luck with that one!

I do think however that more awareness of just how devastating this condition can be, not only to the sufferer, but also to their families and even the wider community would really help if only to dispel some prevelant misconceptions about the condition and (hopefully) discourage some of the tabloid style stereotyping which inevitably seems to creep into an otherwise intelligent debate. Those with severe Autism are rarely (if ever?) portrayed in the mainstream media (just the other day I saw an article on the BBC website entitled “Do Autistic people “get” jokes”, this featured contributions from people actually on the “spectrum” and aiming to dispel that “no humour” myth......the joke for me is that this article gives the impression that all Autistic people can actually understand language.....or that they can even speak.....many do not, or even possess the most basic skills necessary for independent survival......“getting” jokes is a long way down the list of their priorities) and yet in the wider sense the media (and particularly newspapers) have been heavily involved (implicated) in the controversy around the MMR vaccine and potential links to Autism. And I suspect that continued media coverage, which seems now to be largely supportive of the “official” line that there is no link between the two will effectively draw a line under the whole issue for the majority of people. I doubt however that it will reassure many of those affected who still have very serious misgivings about this issue and many unanswered questions. My purpose in contributing to this discussion is to share with you my personal insights into this controversy based on actual experience rather than hearsay and share my own conclusions arrived at by observation, common sense and experience. I wish to clarify firstly that I acknowledge and find myself broadly in agreement with those on this forum who have already flagged up the many variables/potential causes/interpretations in the data available (so to speak). There may well be genetic causes, some people may have specific vulnerabilities/predispositions, there may be additional environmental factors, inconsistencies/potential toxins in the make up of the vaccine itself and all of these and more make it more difficult for the layperson to make the claim of a causal link with absolute certainty, but neither do they make such a claim unsupportable, and for those of us who have experienced a child’s sudden loss of social awareness/skills, personality traits etc coincidental to being given the triple jab, no satisfactory reason has yet been provided to the best of my knowledge.

So, is there anything that hasn’t already been said? Yes, I think there is.

Like most parents who come to the alarming realisation that their child might have stopped developing typically, or begin to exhibit “odd” behaviours or most inexplicably of all, seem to be going “in reverse” developmentally, the urge is to find out as much as you can from the material available from as many sources as you can. If you suspect Autism, there is a lot to go at, the the impairment was first recognised by the medical establishment in the 1940s and knowledge of the symptoms, behaviours and diagnostic markers has been developing ever since through ongoing research and case study, nevertheless and rather surprisingly, I could find nothing in the definitions or descriptions of the condition which mentioned loss of skills/awareness previously acquired/exhibited, similarly the specialists I spoke to at the time seemed unable (or unwilling) to engage with this particular circumstance. The line at that time seemed to be that Autism is an innate lifelong condition with no known cause and with no cure (although therapeutic interventions etc may help) it is thought to be present from birth in those affected but becomes apparent in the early years when developmental milestones are not reached or categories of atypical behaviour emerge. It seemed strange to me at the time that the observations/experiences of many parents I spoke to who had also noted loss of social skills/awareness in their Autistic children did not appear to be reflected in the literature or acknowledged by the specialist clinicians. How to explain this? was this a new strain of Autism? and why apparently were far more children being diagnosed as Autistic than previously? I should note that, in our case this all occurred before Dr Andrew Wakefield and others began to suggest a link between the MMR jab and Autism.

It now seems that Regressive Autism as it is sometimes termed, is beginning to be recognised although some anecdotal evidence would seem to suggest that many doctors still regard it as a bit of a taboo subject (but perhaps the issue has become too big to ignore/deny) It also appears to me that some literature being generated from certain quarters of the medical establishment appears to be attempting to give the impression that they knew about this all along, although I’m not aware of any substantial study prior to the current century, and in any case only after many years during which the concerns of parents had been consistently ignored when flagging this issue up.

And if they were aware of it perhaps it was judged that to acknowledge that a different strain/category of Autism had been identified might invite too many unwelcome questions, particularly if it appeared to correlate to the introduction of a particular vaccine.
I will post further on this topic shortly.
 
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Now the anti-vaxxers are going after Vitamin K.

Mid-morning, a nurse calls downstairs to tell us that the mother who will have a C-section at noon is declining the Vitamin K shot for her baby. Although the trend of refusing neonatal Vitamin K feels fresher to me than vaccine refusal, it may just be less publicized. I, like many pediatricians, see an increasing number of refusals.

Jen, my intern, sees me grimace. “We need to go upstairs and talk to her before the birth,” I say. “She’s refusing Vitamin K. Do you want to lead this conversation, or do you want to listen to me?”

“Maybe since it’s the first time, I’ll listen to you,” Jen says.

“OK,” I say. “So let’s go over it first. Why do I care so much that this baby gets Vitamin K?”

“Her blood can’t clot without it,” Jen says.

“Exactly. So the risk of not getting the shot is?”

“Bleeding,” Jen says.

“Brain bleeds and bleeds in the gut are the ones we care about,” I say. “And when might babies who don’t get Vitamin K start bleeding?”

“Um, pretty soon?” Jen says.

“Yup,” I say. Babies are at the highest risk for Vitamin-K Deficiency Bleeding (VKDB) in the first week of life, so the standard of care is to give the shot within an hour after birth. Many parents don’t know that the risk of VKDB is high in untreated newborns: between one in sixty and one in 250 babies who don’t get the shot will have a clinically significant bleed, like a bleed in the gut that makes them anemic or a brain bleed that affects their neurodevelopment.

A small minority of these bleeds will be devastating hemorrhagic strokes, which may leave previously healthy babies with severe brain injury or, sometimes, kill them. The severe bleeds happen later in life, between two weeks and six months of age. They are unprovoked—there need not have been a car wreck, trauma or abuse. There are usually no warning signs until the bleeding is severe enough to cause pressure on the brain.

The Centers for Disease Control, in an appeal to parents, have published a handful of stories from parents whose babies suffered life-threatening VDKB. “Judah’s Story” tells of a healthy boy whose parents declined the shot. At five weeks old, Judah began vomiting. At first, his parents thought he had stomach flu, but by evening he had become lethargic. His folks were getting ready to take him to the ER when he started having seizures. Within hours, the baby was having emergency brain surgery and on his way to a pediatric ICU. ...

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/...ter&utm_term=Among the Vitamin K Anti-Vaxxers
 

Fairlight

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Following on from my last posting on this topic, I mentioned that we had a severely Autistic son and that for us there were (and still are) many unanswered questions surrounding his development.
By the time we had our next child, some concerns were becoming apparent about the triple vaccine in research circles. It may surprise some readers to learn that I/We were not aware of the work of Dr Andrew Wakefield at the time. We were however familiar with the research of Paul Shattock OBE, director of the Autism Research Unit at Sunderland University who’s recent survey had identified a unique subset of Autistic children who may be uniquely susceptible to (can you guess?)...the MMR Vaccine. His research suggested that MMR might be responsible for as many as one in ten cases of Autism. (just think how much time and trouble he’d have saved himself if he’d only listened to that bloke down the pub who could have told him there is no evidence that MMR causes any problems!)
Now, if you can imagine being in our position what would you have done?
We did what I think most responsible and sensible parents would have done in our circumstances, we opted for single vaccines. That way we would ensure our child was protected (as far as this can be achieved) without taking the additional risks which the (then current) research strongly suggested might arise with the combined vaccine. We would also not be compromising the immunity of the wider social group.
The NHS would not fund single vaccines now that the combined vaccine had been adopted therefore parents had no alternative but to procure these privately.
Unsurprisingly, we didn’t find ourselves amongst “middle class whingers”, or doctors who were “vultures” exploiting the situation (I’m here referencing an early post on this thread and I wonder frankly if use of these these ridiculous slogans does anything towards enhancing the credibility of that post?) What we did find is a group of ordinary folks, most probably from a variety of backgrounds and ethnicity who were trying to do their best for their children and without detriment to the health of the community. Some of them might have been primarily influenced by the adverse publicity for the MMR which was beginning to be reported in the popular press but the parents I spoke to were mainly there because they had personal experience of an Autistic child or had been told of the experience of a friend or family member. The reports in the press appeared to be a secondary, but still significant factor in the equation.
People I spoke to were accepting of the fact that the NHS would not allow funding for single vaccines and clearly finding the money for individual vaccinations did put a considerable strain on the finances of some low income families but I had the impression (and this was certainly our position) that people would have spent their last penny if this were necessary to avoid putting their child at risk.
For those not directly involved, it would be easy to assume that the triple vaccine was introduced primarily to reduce costs for the NHS whilst also offering the benefits of more comprehensive protection for patients, but I think it would be naive to discount the profit potential for the pharmaceutical industry of a new vaccine, particularly if this would now become the only choice available through the NHS. As parents who had chosen to do our own research to the best of our ability and reach our own conclusions, we soon learned that this can make you quite unpopular with certain individuals within the medical establishment. It was also our experience that the venues and locations for clinics offering single vaccines might suddenly change at short notice. This might simply have been because insufficient demand may have rendered the cost of offering the service uneconomical, but such was the climate of hostility from some in the medical establishment towards these “maverick” doctors and towards members of the public who had the temerity to question the “approved” advice that I can well understand the suspicions of those who believed there was a degree of “sabotage" being attempted by the establishment, perhaps pressure being put on the owners of venues (typically hotels) not to hire out their facilities....or to suddenly withdraw facilities. The pharmaceutical lobby is well connected and very well funded.
If all this sounds as though we are getting into the realm of “Big Pharma" conspiracy territory, it might be worth remembering (as I very clearly do) the BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy) crisis in the 80s and 90s in Britain in which a couple of scientists attempted to alert the government to a potential public health crisis but found themselves up against powerful interest groups allied to government agencies. I can clearly remember Professor Richard Lacey of Leeds University being interviewed on local media and warning of the consequences of beef contaminated with BSE entering the human food chain. Popularly labelled “Mad Cow Disease”, his warnings and concerns went unheeded for quite some time even though they proved subsequently to be true, and I particularly remember the attempts to ridicule him and dismiss his research by the authorities...scientists, politicians and academics from agriculture and medicine were queuing up to pour scorn on his findings. A group of MPs used parliamentary privilege to rubbish him at a press conference in the house of commons, the government of the day and its farming friends did not want to hear the message he was giving.
Richard Lacey and Dr Harash Narang, both acting in the public interest, had attempted to warn the government of a public health risk, in return the funding for Professor Lacey’s research was withdrawn and he was forced to take early retirement, Dr Harang was summarily sacked and publicly disgraced. The main government agency with responsibility for food production and regulation at the time was MAFF, the Ministry for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. Throughout the BSE crisis, Maff’s “expert advisory committees” were staffed by scientists who were also acting as paid consultants to the industries who’s products they were allegedly assessing! According to Professor Lacey “The British government has at all stages concealed facts and corrupted evidence in mad cow disease” The Phillips report into the scandal found that senior government scientists had knowingly colluded in the sham by repeatedly assuring the public that British beef was absolutely safe when they knew it was not.
The parallels in the way the establishment back then reacted to Richard Lacey and his colleague (especially when big money is at stake perhaps?) and the way that Andrew Wakefield and colleagues have been treated is a bit too close for comfort for my liking.
Maybe the truth will finally come out but I’m not holding my breath.
Maybe there were components in early batches of the MMR which have now been identified as harmful and removed from later batches. One thing’s for sure If a generation of susceptible people have had their lives irreparably damaged, and if this is known to be the case, no one in authority is likely to own up, or only perhaps if they are guaranteed anonymity.
On the issue as to whether we would have opted for single vaccinations had we not experienced having an Autistic child, I would have to say that probably we would not, but having experienced and observed what we did, and by becoming aware of research in this area, which we otherwise wouldn’t have been (and this was by no means limited to Paul Shattock’s research, there were others, quite apart from Andrew Wakefield, not that this is widely known or reported in the media, it’s much easier to scapegoat an individual) we made the best most informed decision we could...and I’m glad we did.
 

Tribble

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escargot

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Now the anti-vaxxers are going after Vitamin K.

Mid-morning, a nurse calls downstairs to tell us that the mother who will have a C-section at noon is declining the Vitamin K shot for her baby. Although the trend of refusing neonatal Vitamin K feels fresher to me than vaccine refusal, it may just be less publicized. I, like many pediatricians, see an increasing number of refusals.
They want their kids to die, they must do.
 

Shady

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I had every jab going, including the MMR, it was given us at school, so was the TB one, and the pink sugar cube, wasn't that the polio one? My three siblings didn't have any jabs, I always got it the worse, I seem to be alright
 

Shady

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I dont want to edit, but the MMR, was that the one at school, you got one in the shoulder and the other on your wrist with about six lil needle holes?.
 

Tribble

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I dont want to edit, but the MMR, was that the one at school, you got one in the shoulder and the other on your wrist with about six lil needle holes?.
Edit : By the looks of it, the upper arm scar was caused by the BCG (tuberculosis) vaccination. The wrist pricks may have been a TB test. If your body reacted to the jabs, you'd been exposed to TB at some point/might have it.
 
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Shady

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Yes yes, i remember them saying something about if it goes funny you cant have the jab, i do remember the TB jab tho that left a circular scar and bloody hurt
 

henry

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i notice a lot of women sport upper arm scars from vaccination, dont see it on guys ? but then i do see more female upper arms ...
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
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The latest broad-based study found no correlation between the MMR vaccine and childhood ASD ...
Confirmed: No Link Between Autism and Measles Vaccine, Even for 'At Risk' Kids

Children who receive the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine are not at increased risk for autism, and that includes children who are sometimes considered to be in "high risk" groups for the neurodevelopmental disorder, a massive new study finds.

The new study, published today (March 4) in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine, is one of the largest studies of its kind to date. In it, researchers looked at the records of more than 657,000 children born in Denmark between 1999 and 2010, including about 6,500 who had received an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) diagnosis. ...

The study shows, as many before it have time and again, that "[caregivers] shouldn't choose to not vaccinate because of this punitive association between the MMR [vaccine] and autism," said study principal investigator Anders Hviid, a senior researcher in the Department of Epidemiology Research at Statens Serum Institut in Copenhagen. "There's really strong science that there is no association." ...

The idea that the measles component of the MMR vaccine might be linked to autism began with a small, now-retracted 1998 study in the journal The Lancet. That research looked at 12 children with developmental delays, and eight of the kids had autism. It's since come to light that the lead researcher had several conflicts of interest: He had been paid by a law firm that wanted to sue the vaccine manufacturer, and he had a patent for a "safer" measles vaccine that he had developed before doing the 1998 study, according to a 2011 report in the journal The BMJ.

Since 1998, countless studies have found no link between the MMR vaccine and autism, including a large 2002 study in The New England Journal of Medicine that Hviid carried out with his colleagues; that research looked at 537,000 children born in Denmark between 1991 and 1998. But after the publication of that study, Hviid heard from concerned parents and so-called anti-vaxxers who questioned whether "susceptible" children might be at risk for autism after receiving the MMR vaccine.

"We saw an opportunity to re-examine the association in the same setting but with new children," Hviid told Live Science. "We also looked at how we could address some of the criticisms of our original study." ...
FULL STORY: https://www.livescience.com/64909-measles-vaccine-not-linked-to-autism.html

PUBLISHED REPORT: https://annals.org/aim/article-abst...la-vaccination-autism-nationwide-cohort-study
 

GNC

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I've just been reading the FT article on this, and the proud, obstinate ignorance of the anti-vaxxers is very worrying. It's not only in the West, it's worldwide, and of course measles is making a dramatic comeback, as is polio and others. The author seemed to think vaccination had been a victim of its own success, and as there are generations who grew up without afflicted and disabled (and dead) family and friends thanks to vaccination, the danger was not registering with them.
 

escargot

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The author seemed to think vaccination had been a victim of its own success, and as there are generations who grew up without afflicted and disabled (and dead) family and friends thanks to vaccination, the danger was not registering with them.
Spot-on. People have things a lot more cushy than their forebears did. They need to know how crap life used to be before all our modern comforts arrived.
 
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