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The monster in your closet

The dressing gown on the back of my bedroom door always had a featureless white glowing head above it when I first looked at it in the dark, real under the covers stuff.

It would go away when I peered out again, obviously an over-active imagination, but for me monsters were tall, vaguely humanoid and bloody scary!
 
there was this giant ant standing right behind the door and waiting for me when i had to go pee in the middle of the night.
 
Re: Re: The monster in your closet

Bannik said:
No disrespect intended for any of the posters on this thread (including myself), but if I understand Tez's question correctly he's asking what we envisioned the word "monster" to refer to before we actually encountered any monster (on tv or what not). So far everyone (we the possible exception of rjm?) has described monsters that were learned rather than a default image that we had before ever seeing a "monster."

But hasn't anyone noticed that until a visual concept of 'monster' was introduced, many of us as very young children thought of it as just some unspeakable nastyness that had no defining features, or was a distorted version of an inanimate object.
 
Re: Re: Re: The monster in your closet

Yes, and that's a good point Stella, but Tez's question was something I was curious about too. How our minds form an image that personifies what is otherwise simply a vague, scarey...abstract concept. Even after my encounters with E.T., I never thought of him as a monster, because he didn't look like what I imagined a "monster" to look like. Oddly enough, my idea of a monster didn't really frighten me. I even felt a certain sympathy for it (maybe because, like monsters, I was very anti-authoritarian as a child and didn't feel like I fit in anywhere).
 
As an amorphous malevolence, I wonder how much the concept of "monster" is informed by the fact of darkness or lost visibility or mobility. The ocean or deep water in general might be a kindred generator of danger and fear, since the advanced ground monkeys we are are comparatively poor navigators of that medium. Same goes for our decidedly diurnal eyes.

Later, I might try to write out a Wierzbickan formula for "monster." That means put it in a list of universal human concepts. I suspect it's a very heterogenous semantic category though and may require multiple formulations.
 
FWIW, some psychologists - eg Clark Barrett at UCLA - reckon that for some time humankind was a 'prey species'.

Way back when there were some predators like Dinofelis, a false sabre-tooth that was a specialist primate eater. They believe that this has left us with a permanent, hard-wired fear of 'something out there', specifically something that lurks in the dark and pounces (dinofelis is believed, like leopards, to attack from ambush).

There is a large body of experimental evidence for this, but not yet anything quite conclusive...

This theory forms part of Bruce Chatwin's book 'Songlines'. The children who lie awake in the dark not daring to breath too loudly are the descendants of survivors who did not get eaten because they stayed quiet and motionless!

This, incidentally, is the main explanation for ABC sightings :)
 
Vitrius said:
As an amorphous malevolence, I wonder how much the concept of "monster" is informed by the fact of darkness or lost visibility or mobility. The ocean or deep water in general might be a kindred generator of danger and fear, since the advanced ground monkeys we are are comparatively poor navigators of that medium. Same goes for our decidedly diurnal eyes.

This relates very nicely to another factor which I don't think I've seen mentioned: some of us have been very nearsighted from a very young age, which just adds to the fun and games. I started wearing glasses when I was 5 or 6, in fact. On top of the usual uneasiness about being alone in the dark, I simply couldn't make out shapes without making that oh-so-scary reach for my specs on the bedside table (and by then it would be too late!--you know how that goes).

Up until I was 10 or so, there were two twin beds in my room, and for some reason I would misinterpret the sound of my parents breathing/snoring across the hall and locate it *inside* my room, namely on the other bed across the way. For some reason I KNEW there was a scarecrow (!) lying on that bed. Breathing. It wasn't going to hurt me, but somehow having this odd presence there was terrifying enough. I'm not sure where the scarecrow image came from, but perhaps he represented a variation of the whole "scary animated doll" theme.

My other fears included knowing that as I lay there with closed eyes, should I open them quickly, I would see heads bobbing back under the bed. There were gorillas and other creatures (not sure what, just heads) which would emerge from under the bed and peer at me.

I'm squirming now--glad I'm not sleeping alone tonight. :rolleyes:
 
Well I was convinced that the dead guy in a Tell Tale Heart was buried under my floorboards and was going to come up and get me. I was convinced I could hear the "heartbeat".
 
I was exposed to fantasy movies/stories/toys from way back when, so I was able to have a pretty well formed concept of monster from a young age. However, the 1 monster that really stands out was the one that would stand in my doorway.

My bed used to face the doorway so that when sleeping I could look down the hall and see my parents room so I wouldn't be afraid. Of course I managed to see a monster there, blocking me from safety. It was humanoid but I knew it wasn't - I remember thinking it was green and scaly. Basically it had the classical cloak and cowl look, but the interresting thing is I remember thinking that I could fool it by wrapping myself in the covers like it was (using a corner to make a cowl) and it would think I was one of it and leave me alone.
 
With all the obfuscation and humanoidness going on in here, is it any wonder lollopping stickmen so much fan mail.

OK, the concept of "monster" seems defined pretty much by its vagueness and presumed malevolence or repulsiveness.

Dr. Wierzbicka presents:

1. It is a thing
2. It is a thing that has different shapes
3. It gives fear or disgust
4. It is dangerous

And that's where it seems to goes down hill(or under the bed). This Wierzbickan thing is supposed to be able to define any term using a set list of human universals (thing, to be, fear, hunger, etc). It works for God, why not monster?

Maybe the criterion It is Coming/Waiting For You could be added.
 
After thinking harder, I'm not even sure if I had a monster concept before movies. Makes me wonder how much "monsters" are only outgrowths of the concept "danger," given form later by a culture's story tellers and glyph carvers (Romero, Stephen King, etc.). Isn't it an old addage that "the bogeyman is just something parents made up to keep the kids in line."? To keep them SAFE. Basements, attics, and deep water are all dangerous for kids, and they have monsters in them much of the time. But then again, the road doesn't have any intrinsic monsters. I suspect again that "hidden" may be a necessary criterion.

Looking at TYPES of monsters, can anyone categorize their earliest figments?

Vampire-like creatures
Man-Animal/Werwolves
Malevolent Sentience
Nameless Thing

I strongly suspect almost everyone's most primitive childhood monsters will belong to the final category. Later, the others emerge as mental navigation of phenomenological relations becomes more advanced. Maybe this why Lovecraft has been so influential. Dracula is kinda plush next to Yog-Shoggoth, even on a dark and stormy night.
 
Vitrius said:
Maybe this why Lovecraft has been so influential. Dracula is kinda plush next to Yog-Shoggoth, even on a dark and stormy night.

Speaking of which i have a plush Nyarlethotep next to my wardrobe...

No monster's gonna mess with the Crawling Chaos whilst i sleep!
 
The Yithian said:
Speaking of which i have a plush Nyarlethotep next to my wardrobe...

No monster's gonna mess with the Crawling Chaos whilst i sleep!

Oh! Bad choice of words with all those counterintuitive plush Chthulhus out there.

So, does Nyarlethotep keep the toddler tickler at bay? If I were a toddler tickler, I wouldn't...well, I'd just find a new gig.
 
I just had an interesting thought. Many of my most terrifying childhood 'thing' moments were when I was unwell and had a high temperature. Just one example, when I had German Measles at about age 5, I thought the distintive woodgrain pattern on the wardrobe door was going to swallow me up.
 
Probably not particularly relevant to the main gist of this thread, but, curiously enough, I was never afraid of monsters as a kid. The same for my older brother. Our mom was a voracious reader, and actively encouraged us to read whatever we liked. As a result, we were weaned on the likes of Famous Monsters of Filmland, monster comics, Fantastic Films, Starlog, and the like. For me, monsters were COOL. I was never particularly afraid of the dark, either, but that probably had to do with having to share the bed with my brother ( strength in numbers, you see ). I don't recall ever having to visualize what a monster looked like, because by the time I was five, I already "knew" what they looked like ( even said so on the cover of the darned magazines! )I was afraid of ghosts - while I had no clear idea of what one looked like exactly, I just knew that they were sort of mean, floaty, Casper-looking dudes who went around scaring little kids. I took solace in the knowledge that even if a ghost did appear in our room, he'd have promptly had his spook-ass handed to him by Godzilla or the Creature from the Black Lagoon...
 
I think the reason we're having trouble answering Texcatlipoca's original question is, that we don't remember far enough back. Socialization starts before long-term memory formation begins. I went as far back as I could and still came up with Frankenstein's monster. (Oh, I was five, not three. My sister was three and was also in the dream.)

Yesterday, my friend brought her month old baby over. As we were talking, she noticed a stuffed cow we'd bought since she was last in the house, so I picked it up for her to see it. The baby started crying when the cow came near, and wouldn't stop till we took her outside. Did we just introduce the concept of "monster" to her? There's no way to tell. It was probably pretty amorphous, since babies that age don't focus too well yet.
 
Bannik said:
E.T. used to hide behind the shower curtains. He'd be in there when I'd wake up in the night (in my dream that is) to use the toilet. I'd know because I could sense/smell him before I saw him. One time I knew he was in there because I saw the shower curtain move and the part of it that moved stung my eyes and made them blur when I looked at. I couldn't focus on it. I said in as tough a voice as I could muster (which turned out to be not much more than a whimper) "I'm not scared of you E.T." To which he replied "YeZh yUo ArE." (He was correct). That's all I can remember. God that dream was real. Even now as I was typing this I could feel myself doubting it was a dream. E.T. creeped me out like few things could, even to this day. I can't even look at his image without feeling shivers down my spine.

This has struck a terrible nerve with me. I used to have a similar nightmare about ET. Well, it didn't involve the shower curtain. It did involve a window curtain which he hid behind at one point in the dream and later popped out from behind. I remember being able to sense/smell him, and also my eyes blurring in association with him. Though in my dream, I was hiding/running from an evil ET and I ran to my mom who turned into him while she consoled me.

I just now went into my bathroom and got the shivers looking at the shower curtain too. ET creeps me out like no other as well, even after all this time. And it's funny ... because most people I know also have a similar feeling about him.
 
It's definitely strange to read anti-E.T. sentiment. I thought I was the only one who didn't fall under the sway of the near-universal love affair with the lil' critter. I am someone who has been a great fan of Science-Fiction/Fantasy/horror genres since I was knee-high to a zygote, but I just never cared much for either the movie or the character itself. For me, E.T. was an irritating little turd, and I remember being pilloried for wishing aloud that Elliot hadn't befriended the varmint, but had instead bludgeoned him to death when he had the chance. To each his own, I s'pose.
 
zizzerzazzer said:
This has struck a terrible nerve with me. I used to have a similar nightmare about ET. Well, it didn't involve the shower curtain. It did involve a window curtain which he hid behind at one point in the dream and later popped out from behind. I remember being able to sense/smell him, and also my eyes blurring in association with him. Though in my dream, I was hiding/running from an evil ET and I ran to my mom who turned into him while she consoled me.
The first time I had a dream about ET I was actually in that state in between sleep and consciousness. I had just woken up to a feeling a certain dread but I didn't know what it was that I was dreading. My nightlight gave the room a greenish hue. I sat up and looked around the room. On the floor, a black or navy-blue pair of socks (I tended to just scatter my clothes around the floor so I could just put them on the next day before school) were moving around of their own accord. I couldn't focus on them because they stung my eyes and they had what looked like television static running through them. The socks also gave off a sort of evil vibration.

I ducked back under the covers. I don't know how long I was laying under there sweating to death but at some point I pulled the covers off me and there was E.T., showing me his glowing finger, his face only a couple of feet from mine. He was giving off that same evil vibration that my socks were giving off. I passed out with fear (I assume because that's all that I can remember) but in lucid dream that followed, in which E.T. was still in my room, I made damn sure to rip off his arm and bludgeon him. I spun him around the room and it looked like that whirlwind that Looney Toons character the Tasmanian Devil is in when he's chasing after somebody.

I had seen the movie in the theatre when it first came out. Somewhere, in my subconscious, I think I had found the idea of a young boy (which is what I was at that time) befriending a creature so alien and different from himself both touching and terrifying. I feel now that E.T. represents some fragmented part of myself that's been trying to reintigrate itself. I feel this because just last year I had a brief sleep paralysis dream in which I saw E.T. laying on the ground looking all white and sickly like he did in that one scene of the movie. I tried to scream out in terror but instead of my own voice emanating from my lungs I heard E.T.'s. It was at that point I realized we were one and the same. E.T. is just a personified metaphor for a certain, darker part of myself that I must have pushed out of my consciousness when I was younger, because it wasn't "proper." I still have no idea what part of myself that is - a certain anger or resentment perhaps.

Someday, when I get the courage, I'll reintigrate E.T. (or, more accurately, whatever part of myself he represents) back into me. Otherwise, he might just die from being out of his element for so long.

Edit: Grammatical corrections
 
Well, curious things happened in the flat I grew up in all the time (there are a few stories scattered around the board - I re-read one recently, as a friend had asked for a copy of it, and managed to creep myself out :) ). I was at my parents house just the other day, and my sister, cousin and I were telling stories of our childhood (aided my by my parents) to my wife and my sister's husband. We soon got around to the stories of being freaked out as kids - some cute, some hilarious, and some disconcerting. My mum said that most things that happened, I just accepted as a matter of course. She said the times she was freaked out most by something I'd said, were once when I was three years old, I told her that I'd woken up during the night and came into the living room, where there was a party in full swing. Only everyone had the faces of pigs. I remember this dream (it must have been a dream, right?) to this day, as clear as if I'd had it minutes ago. I described the images in my head, and she said that it was practically word for word what I'd told her (only slightly more eloquent these days :) ), she'd never forgtten as it'd really scared her.

The second time was when I was about five (I could read now, so I was always making up outrageous stories - infact, as an aside, she says that I used to wake up every morning telling of the adventures I had gone on during the night, where I'd left my body and flew through the closed window, to look over the world - anyway, I digress). It was late, my dad was on night shift and my sister was asleep in her bed across the room. My mum was in the living room with my aunt. I woke up and the room was bathed in green, which was coming from a kind of amorphous, swirling green light between my bed, and my bedroom window (which had heavy black curtains over them, and were drawn). I quickly got out of bed, and walked across the hall to the living room, where I stood in the doorway for the next few minutes. I think I was waiting for someone to notice me. My aunt saw me, and asked what I was doing up. I told her that I couldn't go back to bed, as the green ghost was there. They both laughed, and my mum told me to go back to bed. Again, I said I couldn't, as the green ghost was there. I probably got the idea that it was a ghost from a Hardy Boys book (The Hardy Boys and the Green Ghost) that I had read. I was apparently adamant that I wasn't going back. So, my aunt went into the bedroom, came back and said all was clear, and back to bed.

Anyway, as my mum was telling this story, she was laughing, saying that it freaked her out at the time (it was late, my dad wasn't home, etc.), but put it down to the fact that I was tired, and had woken out of a sleep. Then I told her that not only did I still remember exactly what happened (infact, I'm sure I've told the long version of this story either on here, or on alt.folklore.ghost-stories), but I also remember that when I walked into the living room, my aunt was standing on the table, because my mum was altering a skirt for her.

Well, this freaked her out again :)
 
Those green, scaley claws. (Like Bok's hands in Doctor Who and The Daemons). The primeval fear of those hands grabbing my ankles as I swung my legs over the edge of the bed. Their freezing grip in the dark.

And as I lay in bed there was an open door to the right of my head that led to the hall. It always creaked in the dead of night.

mooks out
 
there is a song on the 'metalica' black album that sums it up nicely.
 
Hey Onix, I expect that having been creeped out yourself, you'll be understanding towards your son's nighttime fears as he gets older.

My kids were allowed the lights on at night if they felt worried. An undreamed-of luxury in my own childhood! ;)
 
escargot said:
Hey Onix, I expect that having been creeped out yourself, you'll be understanding towards your son's nighttime fears as he gets older.

My kids were allowed the lights on at night if they felt worried. An undreamed-of luxury in my own childhood! ;)

I am getting ready with a flashligt and some "monster repelant spray" just in case. My son likes flashligths a lot and sometimes he plays doctor with them ("open your mouth Carlos. Now your ears"). I got the idea for the "monster repelant" from an U.S. magazine. Bassically, you just get one of those water spayers, fill it with water or something else (perhaps Holy Water) and tag it as monster repelant or something like that. So far he's not afraid of the dark, but I know that's coming soon. I am also trying to convince my wife to get a boxer dog, perhaps a female. She could sleep in my kids bedroom. Do you think it's a good idea?

In any case, he doesn't seem to be phased about anything, like thunder or pyrotechnics, bassically because we try not to overreact to them. Heck, not even a quake scares him! The guy seems to be able to keep his cool in check more often than his mom or dad.
 
For my money, a flashlight in a dark bedroom just heightened the shadows and fear. And, interestingly enough, I'm sure this is another primeval fear, the fear I would feel when I had the torch pointed in a corner and was just about to click it on. Like early man carrying a burning branch through a forest, suddenly the light would illuminate a tiger or (as it was in my day) the torch would click on and there would be this monster (any description) looking back at me.

mooks (shudder) out

PS Here's what allayed my fears.
Leave the light on and a door open so he can hear the you in another room. Once he's asleep switch "night light" mode!
 
This thread has been so reassuring for me. I've had the raving mickey taken out of me for a lifetime due to the fact that ET was quite literally my monster in the closet when I was tiny (he was in my airing cupboard. What he'd do if I opened the door was unspecified, but scary).
I wonder why ET seems to polorise children's reactions? My cousin was so smitten that she spend a year or two paying he'd crash in her garden.

My 'purest' childhood monster would probably be the one which lasted most of my childhood. I couldnt tell you what it looked like, as the whole point of my tiny child mind was that I knew it was there but MUSTN'T EVER SEE IT. The idea of seing it was sufficiently terifying, without contemplating what 'it' might do to me afterwards.
 
I never really thought there were any actual monsters (like ET or anything), except the time I thought I saw one (which I suspect now was the shadow of a parent in my room, with a torchbeam making it's eye). I did the usual thing of hiding under the covers, and promptly nodding off ;) I have periodically gone through periods of worrying about the dark, but I believe that to be instinctual (e.g. if you were exposed at night, a tiger could eat you) and nothing particularly wrong with my mind. But I have always kept torches beside my pest, for (A) checking nothing is there (sometimes you hear noises that could even be someone moving slowly through the room. I think I caught my little brother like that once :) ) and (B) for seeing why the cat is making so much noise. I have a 1,000,000 candlepower torch now though (£14.99 or somesuch from a DIY shop, complete with built-in sealed lead acid battery, charger and small torch function), it lights up whole rooms when you use it, as it's about as powerful as a car headlamp I believe ;)
 
Gawd! I Thought I Was Crazy!

Phew!

I thought I'd gone insane when I had this strange feeling that a Muppet was chasing me through the house.

Weird as it is, things like this always scare me--I suppose its because of the same reason that some children are afraid of clowns.

As for the monster subject: I'd never thought of monsters as tentacle-y, big toothed, scal-ish green humanoids, more of a nameless thing as mentioned before.

I remember a nightmare I had a few times:

I would be driving down the hill by our house, and when I would look over at my mother, (who was supposed to be driving) she wouldn't be there, and the car would be out of control, with only me to steer it. This did happen once when I was a child: The parking break was released by my foot, and the vehicle rolled into the middle of the road...luckily, no one hit me :)

Another dream:
My brother kept his hallowe'en costume in our bedroom closet, and once, when I was very tired, I dreamt that a man had hidden inside it, and if he or I walked by, he would seize either of us and do whatever it is that bad dream "monsters" do.

I suppose it was more real-life, non-fantastic subjects, like serial killers and broken glass, that scared me the most...
 
As a child, I was more concerned about ghosts and aliens than monsters. My mum told my sister and I that if we left our wardrobe doors open, ghosts could come out and get us during the night. I'm now nearly 19 and always make sure that the wardrobe door is closed before I'm alseep :eek:
I also used to have a fear of little grey aliens peering through my window at night. I was never cocnerned about monsters though.
 
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