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The Moors Murderers: Ian Brady & Myra Hindley

I saw this on the news this morning, and can't help thinking now the whole wanting to starve to death thing is just some warped ruse to hold the families 'hostage' with the threat of taking what he knows to the grave with him.

Myth - I believe he did share a lot of stuff with Hindley to test the water first, 'Scarg might be able to tell you more but off the top of my head, Nazi documentary stuff and the writings of De Sade were two of those things.
 
I don't know why this man continues to get so much publicity when it's exactly what he wants.
 
Mythopoeika said:
theyithian said:
The whole case was significantly before my time and I've never read much about it. I didn't realise until I read it on the BBC yesterday that Bradey and Hindley took their neighbour - a young girl - out for a picnic on the moors and brought her home safely. That throws up so many questions I'd like answering. Was it a test run? Was it before or during the series of confirmed murders?

Yes, I noticed that too...curious.

Another question that I have is, at what point did one or the other of them propose the outrageous suggestion that they would like to kill a child? I mean, if one suggested it, the other could have been shocked and horrified. How did they know they were both a pair of psychos? Do psychos have a secret 'recognition code'? It would certainly help the police if something like this happened.

This brings to mind something I saw in an issue of FT some years ago (which I misplaced and never found again). It was a photo of a statue that was said (at least according to the caption) to have been an inspiration to Brady and Hindley as they were developing their murderous fantasies.

I've searched and searched for more information on that or a picture of the statue, but can't find a thing. Since I wonder the same things as Mytho above, any little clue would be of interest.
 
It's a long time since I read Beyond Belief by Emlyn Williams - and I am not eager to revisit it - but it was an early and detailed account of the pair and their deeds, written by the Welsh playwright in 1967.I see it is not much regarded these days.

There was a television documentary in the early 2000s? which explored the pseudo-intellectual basis of Brady's hold over Hindley as well as her own constructed identity as the shadow-icon of sixties pop culture.

Possibly a similar couple today would be living out their fantasies in a chatroom? :cross eye

edit: "shadow-icon" replaces "shadow-side"

edit2: Comment on book moved to first paragraph, where it belongs. Date of documentary put forward from 1990s? to early 2000s?

edit3: The Wikipedia article on the Moors Murders contains much of what I recall featured in the documentary.
 
Ian Brady claimed to have killed four more people in unseen letters
The Moors murderer Ian Brady claimed he killed four more people and said the body of his victim Keith Bennett is buried in Yorkshire, in previously unpublished letters shown to The Daily Telegraph.
[PDF: ianbradyletter]
By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter
6:28PM BST 28 Jun 2013

Brady, 75, said he killed two men in his native Glasgow and then killed a man and a woman in Manchester, the city where he and his accomplice Myra Hindley abducted and murdered five children in the 1960s.

Meanwhile his claims about the location of 12-year-old Keith Bennett’s body raise the possibility that police may have been looking in the wrong place during successive searches of Saddleworth Moor in Greater Manchester.

Brady has lost his legal bid to be transferred from Ashworth maximum security hospital back into the prison system after a mental health tribunal ruled he “continues to suffer from a mental disorder”.
He had hoped to return to jail so he could starve himself to death rather than being force-fed through a tube, as he has been since 1999, when he began a hunger strike.
He has the right to appeal against the decision, which followed an eight-day hearing costing the taxpayer an estimated £250,000.

Brady made a series of extraordinary claims about his crimes in a series of letters to Brendan Pittaway, an author and journalist who wrote to him in Ashworth.
In his letters Brady describes the four additional murders as “happenings” and says that he killed a man “on the waste ground behind the station” and a “woman in the canal”.
Brady goes on to say he also killed a man in Glasgow and another man “above Loch Long”, a 20-mile long sea loch at the mouth of the Clyde.

Brady gave details of the four alleged murders to Det Ch Supt Peter Topping, the man who led the search for Keith Bennett when Brady confessed to killing him in 1985.

In his autobiography, Mr Topping discusses the claims – as well as an 18-year-old youth Brady claimed to have killed and buried on the moors – but said he had serious doubts about whether Brady was telling the truth, adding that even Brady had suggested some of the claims might be “figments of his imagination”.

According to Brady, Mr Topping told him a “mentally restarted[?] man” had confessed to the killing near the station but was never charged, and that the woman found in the canal had been classed as a suicide despite “the absence of a suicide note and the presence of a bruise on her head”.

He alleges that Mr Topping told him Strathclyde Police did not keep records going as far back as the death of one of the men in Glasgow and that the second did not match any reports of missing persons.

Brady also claims he gave Mr Topping “names, places and methods used”.
He writes: “My statements were an embarrassment to the police, who, rather than admit irregularities had taken place, will move mountains to cover up.”

In the same letter, dated Nov 24, 1989, he writes: “As for Keith Bennett. The area of the site is in Yorkshire, not (double underlined) Lancashire, and should have been dealt with by the Yorkshire Police.
“I have already stated my readiness to questioning under Sodium Penthatol (sic) so-called ‘truth drug’, but not (double underlined) by the Manchester Police.”

It is unclear, however, whether Brady is suggesting police have been looking in completely the wrong place for Keith, or is merely splitting hairs over the changing locations of county boundaries in order to get West Yorkshire Police involved in the inquiry, rather than Greater Manchester, against whom he has a grudge.
At the time of the Moors murders Saddleworth Moor was in West Yorkshire, but after a boundary change in 1974 it became part of Greater Manchester.

John Ainley, the solicitor who represented Keith Bennett’s mother Winnie Johnson until her death last year, said: “There are some areas of the moors that were searched which are in Derbyshire, so if he is saying it is in Yorkshire that would be a start, as it is a vast area.
“Without additional information though, it is still a needle in a haystack and might not lead to any fresh investigations.
“I would appeal to Ian Brady to come forward and either identify the whereabouts of Keith or tell us that he doesn’t know.”

Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Shenton, head of Greater Manchester Police's Serious Crime Division, said: "During the 1980s, the Detective Chief Superintendent who was heading up the investigation into the Moors murders looked into claims that Ian Brady may have been involved in other murders.
"These claims were fully investigated based on the information available at the time and were not substantiated.
"Should any new information about historic murders come to light, these will be fully investigated."

A spokesman for Police Scotland said: “We have no ongoing inquiries into Ian Brady.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... tters.html
 
escargot1 said:
BBC Radio Manchester has an interview with a friend of the family at 07:45 today - BBC Radio

There's a red 'Live' link on the right of the page.

Edit - it was an interview with a very dignified lady, the mother of Helen McCourt.

Helen disappeared in 1988 and the landlord of the pub where she worked, Ian Simms, was convicted of her murder. Her mother became friends with Winnie Johnson through a charity called SAMM (Support after Murder and Manslaughter) and would discuss the pain of not having the body of their child recovered for burial.

Mrs McCourt wrote one letter to Simms a couple of years after his conviction, asking to be told where her daughter's body is hidden. He sent back a 'terrible' reply.
We weren't told of its contents but one assumes that it does not express remorse. It wasn't a clever move, as it's kept on his file, ready for inspection by the parole board.

She showed the letter to a psychologist who told her that any further communication would be futile. As she put it, Simms would treat her like a cat playing with a mouse. Sounds very much like Brady's way of thinking.

Mrs McCourt is now on BBC Breakfast TV discussing her daughter's murder.

Helen McCourt murder police dig up grave

Police investigating the murder of a woman whose body has never been found are digging up a grave.
Helen McCourt, 22, from Billinge, near St Helens, vanished in 1988 after calling her mother to tell her when she would be home from work in Liverpool.

Officers acting on intelligence linked to her disappearance are searching at St Aidan's Church in Billinge.
The family that owns the plot has agreed to the grave being dug up, police said.

The Ministry of Justice, HM Coroner for St Helens and the Bishop of Liverpool's Registry have also provided consent.

Helen McCourt went missing 25 years ago Det Ch Supt Tim Keelan, said: "We are acting on information suggesting that Helen's body could have been placed in this particular grave.
"We are now seeking to determine if this is the case."

Pub landlord Ian Simms, a married father of two, was convicted of murder and given a life sentence after blood and an earring identical to one owned by Miss McCourt were found in his car boot.
Simms has never revealed where her body is, but police said the tip-off had not come from him.

Old mine shafts have previously been searched along with drain ditches and drained ponds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-24537439
 
If that was about anyone else you'd be right told off! :lol:

Not him though. He is possibly the most hated person in Britain since Hindley's death.

Personally, I don't want him to die. There is no hell for him to go to, for him any more than there is for Jimmy Savile, no matter how much we'd like to believe in an ultimate justice.

No, I'd like him to live on for a couple of decades more in the hell he has made for himself. With some extra pain. :D
 
Several threads merged and thread title amended. The subject only needs one thread.

P_M
 
escargot1 said:
...Personally, I don't want him to die. There is no hell for him to go to, for him any more than there is for Jimmy Savile, no matter how much we'd like to believe in an ultimate justice.

No, I'd like him to live on for a couple of decades more in the hell he has made for himself. With some extra pain. :D

My attitude entirely.

I'm entirely opposed to capital punishment for several reasons, some of them being those wishy-washy liberal, do-gooder ones that pro-death penalty people go on about all the time - however, in the cases of some of those who are without question guilty of the crimes for which they have been convicted one of those reasons is the above.

Similarly, I would dearly like Peter Tobin to live to a ripe old age. And then I'd like him to be put on life support so he can live a little longer, preferably in a state where he can still smell himself rotting from the inside out.

Sod the cost - personally, I'd be happy to pay a little extra tax for that to happen.
 
The medical ethics of this type of case are interesting, Generally, the consensus is that a person's life should be sustained for as long as possible if there is any quality of life at all or if there is a chance of recovery. Even if these two conditions aren't met it is still very hard to withdraw treatment although of course it does happen.

Withdrawing treatment from a brain-dead patient is usually only done after careful negotiation with their closest relations. I can't see anyone coming forward to speak up for the above pair. They're on their own! ;)

Of course, a vulnerable patient without a living relative will have an advocate to look after their rights. The spoilsports.
 
Of course, a vulnerable patient without a living relative will have an advocate to look after their rights. The spoilsports.

I suppose in a civilised system everyone should have an unbiased legal representative. I'd hate to be his though, I remember thinking during Ian Huntley's trial, that I'd hate to be his lawyer. I did find it amusing though that they found him one called Mr Coward, that wasn't an accident.
 
Yes, of course no matter how heinous a person's actions, they are still entitled to representation and where necessary, advocacy. As you say, that's because we are civilised.
 
The best thing to do with Brady would be to make him live as long as possible in complete anonymity. Don't even tell us if he's died, tell us nothing about what he says, no news at all. That would serve him right.
 
Fat chance of THAT happening though!
 
gncxx said:
The best thing to do with Brady would be to make him live as long as possible in complete anonymity. Don't even tell us if he's died, tell us nothing about what he says, no news at all. That would serve him right.

It would serve him right. But it would also be an unfortunate precedent. The law has to treat people equally, no matter how horrible some specimens may be.

I think the current process has treated him in a way that amounts to serious poetic justice, because he is the ultimate control freak as far as I can tell, and he is not now allowed to even control his own body. As fair an outcome as could be created within the bounds of civilised behaviour and due judicial process.
 
Ian Brady's doctor pal reveals he KNOWS where Moors Murderer buried Keith Bennett


Dr Alan Keightley has given a chilling insight into the twisted mind of Ian Brady , claiming the Moors Murderer let him into secrets kept from police and the families of his victims.

And the religious studies expert told how the evil killer revealed to him where he and Myra Hindley buried the body of Keith Bennett after the 12-year-old’s horrific death more than 50 years ago.
etc

Long story short: Dr Keightley has access to all Brady's papers and will be writing a sensational book after Brady's death, which the good doctor hints will be soon.
 
So this doctor wants to write Brady's biography? Twisted little bastard.
 
Although I agree with treating all prisoners humanely .. even sickos like Brady unfortunately .. the sooner Brady's dead, the better for everyone. Torturing a little girl to death while recording it then playing mind games with grieving relatives afterwards ? .. nope.

 
Last edited:
I recall thinking that when Brady tried to 'help' the police locate the body that he was really there to enjoy the memories of what he had done. I had no faith that any body would be found.
 
It seemed to be the last little bit of control Brady had ... not telling Keith Bennet's Mum where he'd buried her son until and up to after she died, the only resolution she had left, a fun mind game for him .. that's why Brady has to remain unforgiven and also why his death will make the world one bastard lighter ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19415635
 
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