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The Most Fortean Spot in the United States

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Anonymous

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To all:

In discussing Fortean phenomena, an obvious item of interest would be places or even times when such types of incidents would seem to cluster. Already, there is a thread contending that the "weirdest" spot in Wisconsin seems to be around its center, and many unusual occurrences can, perhaps, be recounted as having happened there. But the question can also be raised as to what can be termed the most "Fortean" spot in the entire United States, or, at least, in the contiguous 48.

Before beginning, though, the idea of what would constitute being "Fortean" should be considered. Surely, New England has its share of ghost stories, and the South has strange creatures, from the Skunk Ape to the Louisiana "lizard men", and the Southwest has unusual incidents, like portals to other worlds, attributed to it. To be "Fortean" though, seems to mean that something surpasses just notoriety in just one area. To be "Fortean", it seems, a place would have to have a wide range of unusual occurrences, in a large number of different categories, and reaching significant heights of "strangeness" or unorthodoxy. UFO's, strange creatures, ghosts, notable events, and so on. For this reason, I suggest that the northern portion of the West Coast of the United States, from about the area just north of the San Fernando Valley, to the northern border of Washington State, seems the most "Fortean" area of the country, at least in terms of reported events.

Incidents and conditions there seem to suggest that very well.

Among other things, Sasquatch is very definitely associated with this area. The Tule River Indian reservation, in California, in fact, is supposed to have a cave with ancient paintings of a Bigfoot on its walls.

The enigmatic Bohemian Club, with their strange rituals in the Bohemian Grove, is located near the Russian River, in California.

The famous Oregon Vortex is located in that area, along with such strange sites as Mel's Hole, which seems to have no recorded bottom, and from which a dead dog emerged alive, and other similar areas.

The first sightings of "flying saucers" launching the recent historical UFO period were made over Mt. Rainier, in Washington.

Mt. Shasta, so rich in stories of strange occurrences that it even has a web site devoted to it, is in northern California.

While, perhaps, not as rich in unusual occurrences as Mt. Rainier or Mt. Shasta, Mt. St Helens, one of the most significant volcanic eruptions in recent times, took place in Washington State.

Apparently, the highest concentration of chemtrails reported are along the Oregon coast. Perhaps, whatever chemicals are being sprayed into the atmosphere are being largely deposited here, and allowed to drift with the prevailing winds, inward, over land.

This area has an apparent strange pull on criminals. D.B. Cooper, the famous robber, parachuted out of a plane, with a fortune, over the woods of the Pacific Northwest, and was never seen again. Gary Leon Ridgway, the Green River Killer, apparently one of the worst serial killers in American history, acted in Washington State. Edward Harvey Stokes, the man identified as perhaps the worst mass child molester in history, Acted through California, Oregon and Washington State. Mary Kay LeTourneau came from Seattle. Escaping the law, Bambi Bembeneck fled to Oregon. In fact, if you enter "fled to" into any search engine, and follow it with the name of a state, "fled to Oregon" seems to come up with the largest number of entries! When he was released from prison, Edward Harvey Stokes fled to Oregon!

The only statue to a Communist hero, in the United States, seems to be found in the Pacific Northwest! In Seattle, Washington, there is a statue commemorating Lenin. He is not represented as the political figure, rousing the Bolsheviki, rather, as a comrade in arms, with Socialist cap on, marching to a parade, but he is commemorated, nonetheless.

Following a fire, last century, it will be remembered, Seattle, Washington seems to have literally "built right on the ashes", building the new city right on top of existing portions of the old city! Tours to the "subterranean city" are a regular thing, and it was even featured in the movie, "The Night Strangler"!

As an aside, but within the limits of the idea, the two evident fundamental bastions of the yuppie days, Starbucks and Microsoft, are both from this area, as well!

You can add such things, too, as the "Gang of Nine" - an apparent coalition of developers and financiers, who wanted to cash in on erecting an unnecessary hospital in Eugene, Oregon - literally barraging a local newspaper for up to a year with political cartoons, trying to lampoon recent actions against overdevelopment in the area.

Not necessarily entirely in the realm, but something to note, is that, even in recent history, very few American presidents seem to have come from this area. Part of this may be attributed to a desire for Midwest down-hominess in presidents, but that doesn't exactly explain FDR or Ronald Reagan, who were not noted Midwesterners.

In the face of all this, when I hear that Oregon is apparently the only state in the Union in which all election ballots are write-in; or that a transvestite set up shop on a street corner in Seattle, handing out condoms and clean needles for drug addicts; or that the story of "The Thing In The Dump" took place in Oregon, I am not surprised. Too, someone might notice, the letters in "Oregon" can be re-assembled to form the word "orgone", the strange energy source that has so much attributed to it!

If there are other areas that want to be considered more "Fortean" than the Pacific Northwest area, it seems they will have a lot of competing to do!



Julian Penrod
 
What's the place in California where the person kept on adding rooms to their house to escape the spirits and ended up with a bizarre maze-like mansion?

Your post set me thinking about weird Americana and the name's escaped me.
 
It's the Winchester house in San Jose California.

http://www.winchestermysteryhouse.com/


Julian, did you mention the "Shanghai" tunnels under Portland? Ididn't see it, but I could have had a brain fart. There was at least one bar that had a trap door that would drop drunks into the tunnels below and then they wake up on a ship bound for China.
 
Timble said:
What's the place in California where the person kept on adding rooms to their house to escape the spirits and ended up with a bizarre maze-like mansion?

Your post set me thinking about weird Americana and the name's escaped me.

Timble, it's The Winchester Mysyery House in San Jose (south of San Francisco). Thread: http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1889

Julian: I'm certainly not disputing there's a lot of weird shit up and down the west coast. but your methodolgy is lacking, to be generous, don't you think? From "The san fernando valley (LA, for those of you across the pond) to the northern border of washington state" (ie Canada) has got to be at least 1500 miles as the crow flies. Not quite a "spot". The population of Califonia, Oregon, Washington is, I dunno 40 million people? In Wisconsin 5 million live in ~65,000 square miles (2/3rds the size of the UK). These are not remotely comparable.
 
Timble said:
What's the place in California where the person kept on adding rooms to their house to escape the spirits and ended up with a bizarre maze-like mansion?
Wasn't this also a T.V. movie/series? (IIRC a couple of years ago there was a mini-series with this as it's premise.) Also I think that Alan Moore used it in one of his comic series. (Swamp Thing?)

Never realised that there was any nugget of truth to it. If I ever wind up over there, I'll have to go and visit. :)
 
Fortis said:
Wasn't this also a T.V. movie/series? (IIRC a couple of years ago there was a mini-series with this as it's premise.) Also I think that Alan Moore used it in one of his comic series. (Swamp Thing?)

Never realised that there was any nugget of truth to it. If I ever wind up over there, I'll have to go and visit. :)

I believe you're thinking of Stephen King's Red Rose , it was a 4-6 hr. miniseries. He did incorporate elements of Winchester house story.
 
That's the one! :)
(I have to admit that my initial thought when Timble mentioned the house, was that there had been some confusion with the one from the mini-series. Now that I know that the mini-series was based on the real house I'm a much happier chappie. :) )
 
Thanks for nominating my little corner of this big ole' country as being extra wierd. Tis true, we've got more than our fair share of oddness around here, including much historically significant UFO action -- If I recall correctly, the "Saucers" that coined that term were spotted over Mt. Rainer Washington, and there was a rather famous, and as yet un-debunked UFO photograph taken in McMinville Oregon, not far from the area where I lived as a child (A micro-brewery in McMinville holds a UFO watching festival -- related to the image, maybe?). There's also a huge newage contingent here, since the Hippies that moved here in the 60's and 70's went all wacky with that stuff in the 80's. Portland Oregon also has the distinction of being the place that (apparently) lead to the term "being Shanghai-ed" due to the practice of snatching unsuspecting drunkards, secreting them away into a maze of underground tunnels (having visited a few, they are very cramped and VERY creepy), and shipping them off to China (slavery or summat, can't recall - I've been sniffing photo chemicals in the darkroom all day, so mind no work so good).

However -- we don't have write in ballots here, they're even stupider... the newest ones expect the voter to draw a line through two segments of a broken arrow in order to complete it. To complete the idiocy factor, we do not go to a polling place on election days, rather we mail in our kindergarten style ballots. I recieved my ballot in the mail today, primary election isn't until 18/05. Seems ripe for fraud, plus I just don't feel that I've participated in the "democratic" process when I'm crayon-ing in my ballot while watching cartoons at home.

/back to my spot toning, yay.
 
Hmm - not sure the McMinville photos are 'un-debunked'. Quite alot of skeptical overviews of the photos are out there on the net. This one, for example.
 
some additional comments on the apparently most Fortean spot

To all:

Not to make light of any tragedy, but merely to add to my assertions that the Pacific Northwest seems the most Fortean spot in the contiguous United States, just a couple of days ago, two radio disc jockies from Portland, Oregon were suspended for joking about the tape, described as the decapitation of Nicholas Berg by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

To this, add, too, such things as that, a couple of years ago, the World Trade Organization meeting in Seattle, Washington was rocked by some of the most violent demonstrations at any WTO meeting!

And add to that the story of Julia Butterfly Hill, who, to save "Luna", a giant redwood, from logging, actually lived in the crown of the tree for two years and eigfht days, from December 10, 1997, to December 18, 1999.

Recently, there has been something of an initiative to emphasize the weirdness in Wisconsin, and so counter the assertions I made in this thread about the nature of cocurrences in the Pacific Northwest. A short while ago, there was an aside to this which, itself, seems eminently Fortean. On Tuesday, May 11, CNN reported on a taxi driver in Oregon who was contracted by a man to drive him to his brotgher's house, in Milwaukee. It turns out that Oregon has a "Milwaukee", too, actually spelled "Milwaukie", but the destination the passenger had in mind was Milwaukee, Wisonsin! The cab driver got him there, after a $3000 trip!



Julian Penrod
 
Yes, this is such a well known phenomena that it's been recognized in American folk wisdom. "California : land of fruits and nuts" :p


Julian, I think you've set yourself a futile endeavor. By their sheer nature, Fortean phenomena are the slippery and hard to pin down things. If you knew where to look, you could systematically study them.
However, given the nature of things, you may be able to find statistical clusters -- which could just as easily dissolve or move elsewhere on the vagaries of chance.
 
Mels Hole

I have never heard of this, is there any more information on this place, please?
 
IMHO, none of the states have the whole Fortean hotspot thing to themselves. Books like Eberhart's 'A Geo-Bibliography of Anomalies' will show even a casual reader that each state is pretty packed with Forteana in various shapes and forms. True, some Forteana tends to cluster around certain dates, but this may be for other reasons (i.e. 'airship' sightings from the late 19th and early 20th centuries).
 
Penrod, your examples for the most part sound like activism, not true Forteana. It's very sad that people having beliefs and acting on them should be ranked with damned data.

It strikes me that the most Fortean spot in the Lower 48 is likely to be the spot where most people pay attention to the weirdness that goes on around them. Weirdness happens all the time, everywhere. Weirdness is recorded where people are willing to say: "Hey, that's weird" and tell other people about it.
 
Ah, yes, sorry, I think I did read about that before, I see, mmmmm. Thanks.
 
This has to be Florida.

All these people, went and voted, and all the vote papers they cast just dissappeared!

Thats over 15000 casese of fortean behaviour RIGHT THERE!

Come on people!
 
yet more comments on Fortean incidents in the Pacific Northw

To all:

There are yet more indications of the correctness of my assertion that the Pacific Northwest is the most Fortean spot in the United States, due to the sheer uniqueness of occurrences there.

In 1984, in an evident attempt to usurp political control in the town of The Dalles, Oregon, followers of the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh contaminated food at a number of salad bars in the town, to keep residents from voting in an upcoming election. After several hundred people got sick, the bhagwan was deported from the state and the ashram that his sect set up was, apparently, broken up.

Oregon is the only state in the United States to have a doctor-assisted suicide law.

The FBI accused Portland, Oregon lawyer Brandon Mayfield of involvement in bombings in Spain, on the basis of a presumably rare mistake in reading fingerprints obtained from the area of the attack.

The Sri Yantra mandala figure was found scored deep into a dry lake bed in Oregon.

John Allen Muhammed, one of the Washington area snipers, served in the Oregon National Guard, was part of a Nation of Islam temple in Seattle, Washington, and lived near Tacoma, Washington, before going to Washington D.C., with Lee Malvo.

With respect to the competition with Wisconsin, with Wisconsin apparently claiming to be one of the most Fortean sites in the United States, there are few, it seems, who are not familiar with American Indian head nickels. The design on the reverse was a buffalo. In some cases, excessive polishing of dies caused one of the right legs of the buffalo to disappear. This leads to the rare “three legged buffalo” nickels. However, there is an even rarer Indian head nickel. In some cases, the polishing could cause only part of the right foreleg to be removed, the section below the “knee”, leading to the hoof. Part of the leg remains. This is called a “three and a half leg buffalo nickel”. This is so rare that there are only two specimens known! One was purchased at a Portland, Oregon coin show in 1999, and the other is in a collection in Wisconsin!



Julian Penrod
 
I'm not sure if having a "doctor-assisted" suicide law would be classed as Fortean. :confused:
 
julianpenrod said:
To all:

For this reason, I suggest that the northern portion of the West Coast of the United States, from about the area just north of the San Fernando Valley, to the northern border of Washington State, seems the most "Fortean" area of the country, at least in terms of reported events.

If there are other areas that want to be considered more "Fortean" than the Pacific Northwest area, it seems they will have a lot of competing to do!



Julian Penrod

Beating a dead horse here...The San Fernando Valley is part of greater Los Angeles. Nobody would consider it part of the "the northern portion of the West Coast" or "the Pacific Northwest". You've arbitrarily added something like 800 miles of coastline to the definition. It's like calling the area from the Florida/Georgia border to Maine "New England". I'm not even asking for an apples-to-apples comparison of different areas of the country, I'd settle for apples-to-things-that-are-actually-fruit.
 
further comments on Forten occurrences in the Pacific Northw

To all:

Continuing the list of Fortean type phenomena that seem to proliferate in the Pacific Northwest of the United States, more so than anywhere else in the contiguous United States, the following can be considered:

The Mima mounds, as they are called, strange, hummocky features, dot the land in hundreds, at least, near the city of Yellowstone, Washington

Kennewick Man, a mummified figure that is believed to pre-date the earliest traditionally recognized American Indian cultures, and may even be European, was found in Southern Washington, in the Columbia River

Seattle, Washington is one of the few cities, if not the only city, that has a museum of science fiction and horror

Ted Bundy grew up and seems to have started murdering in Washington State

Before moving to Utah, Gary Gilmore’s earliest criminal actions were in Oregon

If there are others, they can be contributed.



Julian Penrod
 
julianpenrod said:
Before beginning, though, the idea of what would constitute being "Fortean" should be considered. Surely, New England has its share of ghost stories, and the South has strange creatures, from the Skunk Ape to the Louisiana "lizard men", and the Southwest has unusual incidents, like portals to other worlds, attributed to it. To be "Fortean" though, seems to mean that something surpasses just notoriety in just one area. To be "Fortean", it seems, a place would have to have a wide range of unusual occurrences, in a large number of different categories, and reaching significant heights of "strangeness" or unorthodoxy. UFO's, strange creatures, ghosts, notable events,
OK, stop right there. Notable events do not constitute Fortean. Historic, or significant maybe, but not Fortean.
ibid
Among other things, Sasquatch is very definitely associated with this area. The Tule River Indian reservation, in California, in fact, is supposed to have a cave with ancient paintings of a Bigfoot on its walls.

The enigmatic Bohemian Club, with their strange rituals in the Bohemian Grove, is located near the Russian River, in California.

The famous Oregon Vortex is located in that area, along with such strange sites as Mel's Hole, which seems to have no recorded bottom, and from which a dead dog emerged alive, and other similar areas.

The first sightings of "flying saucers" launching the recent historical UFO period were made over Mt. Rainier, in Washington.

Mt. Shasta, so rich in stories of strange occurrences that it even has a web site devoted to it, is in northern California.

While, perhaps, not as rich in unusual occurrences as Mt. Rainier or Mt. Shasta, Mt. St Helens, one of the most significant volcanic eruptions in recent times, took place in Washington State.

Apparently, the highest concentration of chemtrails reported are along the Oregon coast. Perhaps, whatever chemicals are being sprayed into the atmosphere are being largely deposited here, and allowed to drift with the prevailing winds, inward, over land.
So far, fair enough :).
ibid
This area has an apparent strange pull on criminals. D.B. Cooper, the famous robber, parachuted out of a plane, with a fortune, over the woods of the Pacific Northwest, and was never seen again.
Borderline - he vanished, yes, but parachuting as a getaway isn't really all that Fortean.
ibid
Gary Leon Ridgway, the Green River Killer, apparently one of the worst serial killers in American history, acted in Washington State. Edward Harvey Stokes, the man identified as perhaps the worst mass child molester in history, Acted through California, Oregon and Washington State. Mary Kay LeTourneau came from Seattle. Escaping the law, Bambi Bembeneck fled to Oregon. In fact, if you enter "fled to" into any search engine, and follow it with the name of a state, "fled to Oregon" seems to come up with the largest number of entries! When he was released from prison, Edward Harvey Stokes fled to Oregon!
None of these events are Fortean, though. OK, so they all went to Oregon. Lots of people flee to all sorts of places (lots of UK criminals flee to Spain, due to lax extradition treaties, but that doesn't class Marbella as Fortean either).
ibid
The only statue to a Communist hero, in the United States, seems to be found in the Pacific Northwest!
Seewms a bit tenuous..
ibid
Following a fire, last century, it will be remembered, Seattle, Washington seems to have literally "built right on the ashes", ...Tours to the "subterranean city" are a regular thing, and it was even featured in the movie, "The Night Strangler"!
Fair enough.
ibid
As an aside, but within the limits of the idea, the two evident fundamental bastions of the yuppie days, Starbucks and Microsoft, are both from this area, as well!

You can add such things, too, as the "Gang of Nine" - an apparent coalition of developers and financiers, who wanted to cash in on erecting an unnecessary hospital in Eugene, Oregon - literally barraging a local newspaper for up to a year with political cartoons, trying to lampoon recent actions against overdevelopment in the area.
Limits of the idea? Well, they're both from the Pacific Northwest, yes, but not even remotely Fortean.
ibid
Not necessarily entirely in the realm, but something to note, is that, even in recent history, very few American presidents seem to have come from this area. Part of this may be attributed to a desire for Midwest down-hominess in presidents, but that doesn't exactly explain FDR or Ronald Reagan, who were not noted Midwesterners.
So now you're incorporating the fact that people don't come from there as part of your contention...
ibid
In the face of all this, when I hear that Oregon is apparently the only state in the Union in which all election ballots are write-in; or that a transvestite set up shop on a street corner in Seattle, handing out condoms and clean needles for drug addicts;
nope
ibid
or that the story of "The Thing In The Dump" took place in Oregon
Yes!
ibid
Too, someone might notice, the letters in "Oregon" can be re-assembled to form the word "orgone", the strange energy source that has so much attributed to it!
Oh come on!
ibid
..just a couple of days ago, two radio disc jockies from Portland, Oregon were suspended for joking about the tape, described as the decapitation of Nicholas Berg by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
Nope!
ibid
To this, add, too, such things as that, a couple of years ago, the World Trade Organization meeting in Seattle, Washington was rocked by some of the most violent demonstrations at any WTO meeting!
Nope!

ibid
And add to that the story of Julia Butterfly Hill, who, to save "Luna", a giant redwood, from logging, actually lived in the crown of the tree for two years and eigfht days, from December 10, 1997, to December 18, 1999.
Yes! That's more like it!
ibid
A short while ago, there was an aside to this which, itself, seems eminently Fortean. On Tuesday, May 11, CNN reported on a taxi driver in Oregon who was contracted by a man to drive him to his brotgher's house, in Milwaukee. It turns out that Oregon has a "Milwaukee", too, actually spelled "Milwaukie", but the destination the passenger had in mind was Milwaukee, Wisonsin! The cab driver got him there, after a 00 trip!
Welll.. borderline again, but not all that anomalous. Big taxi fare, yes, and a lexi-link, but had the homonymous town been East of Wisconsin, would you have remarked upon it?
ibid
There are yet more indications of the correctness of my assertion that the Pacific Northwest is the most Fortean spot in the United States...
Do tell....
ibid
In 1984, in an evident attempt to usurp political control in the town of The Dalles, Oregon, followers of the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh contaminated food at a number of salad bars in the town, to keep residents from voting in an upcoming election.
OK, a cult acting malevolently on the wider population - yep, that'd make the mag.
ibid Oregon is the only state in the United States to have a doctor-assisted suicide law.
Nope! Not anomalous in the Fortean sense at all - merely legislative difference. Would you class the UK as anomalous because we drive on the left?
ibid
The FBI accused Portland, Oregon lawyer Brandon Mayfield of involvement in bombings in Spain, on the basis of a presumably rare mistake in reading fingerprints obtained from the area of the attack.
Fingerprint similarity - borderline again, as it was as a result of a partial print IIRC, which does happen.
ibid
The Sri Yantra mandala figure was found scored deep into a dry lake bed in Oregon.
Now that's Fortean :).
ibid
John Allen Muhammed, one of the Washington area snipers, served in the Oregon National Guard, was part of a Nation of Islam temple in Seattle, Washington, and lived near Tacoma, Washington, before going to Washington D.C., with Lee Malvo.
No. Murderers in and of themselves aren't Fortean - Jack the Ripper (for example) is an exception as his identity remains a mystery.
ibid
With respect to the competition with Wisconsin, with Wisconsin apparently claiming to be one of the most Fortean sites in the United States, there are few, it seems, who are not familiar with American Indian head nickels...
It's a rare coin. It's not anomalous, though.
ibid
The Mima mounds, as they are called, strange, hummocky features, dot the land in hundreds, at least, near the city of Yellowstone, Washington
Yes!
ibid
Kennewick Man, a mummified figure that is believed to pre-date the earliest traditionally recognized American Indian cultures, and may even be European, was found in Southern Washington, in the Columbia River
Definitely!
ibid
Seattle, Washington is one of the few cities, if not the only city, that has a museum of science fiction and horror
Not anomalous per se, but given the subject matter...
ibid
Ted Bundy grew up and seems to have started murdering in Washington State
No. See above re John Allen Muhammed.
ibid
Before moving to Utah, Gary Gilmore’s earliest criminal actions were in Oregon
Ditto.
ibid
If there are others, they can be contributed.
If they're actually Fortean, by all means....

So, can we say what constitutes the US Pacific Northwest? Oregon and Washington states, certainly, but how far down California do you go?
 
Re: further comments on Forten occurrences in the Pacific No

julianpenrod said:
Kennewick Man, a mummified figure that is believed to pre-date the earliest traditionally recognized American Indian cultures, and may even be European, was found in Southern Washington, in the Columbia River

Kennewick's not a mummy. Kennewick is a skeleton who dates to about 9,000 YPB. He was at first mistaken for "a white man" by the forensic anthropologist, Jim Chatters, and the coroner, who investigated the find for the county, but Chatters found a Cascade point, which pre-dates European contact, embedded in the thigh. This required another look at the skeleton, which in retrospect seems to have been classified as "white" because this is modern Oregon's catchall forensic category for "not our tribes, not black, not Asian," not due to actually possessing modern European characteristics. Chatters - whose book I would reference for you if the cat would permit me to move from my seat - now states that Kennewick and the handful of other human remains of comparable age found in North America do not resemble any modern population, though they have more in common with the "Jomona" people than with anyone else.

Kennewick is an interesting datum point, not only for the populating of the Americas, but for the definition of Fortean. Fort himself was interested in "damned" data - that which science and the general public refused to examine in detail because it fell outside normal categories. In this respect, Kennewick is the opposite of Fortean - scientists have moved heaven and earth, or at least the bureaucracy, in order to study it. Instead it has been "damned" for social and political reasons by non-scientists; a combination of particular political situations and the unreflective decisions of some individual at the Army Corps of Engineers (which owned the site of the discovery) unnecessarily making this skeleton a symbolic bone of contention. I say unnecessarily because, in other areas (Alaska, Canada, Idaho) similar but less spectacular traces of early American/not quite "Indian" peoples have prompted cooperation between archeologists and local tribes, to the benefit of everyone, but making no mainstream headlines.

Kennewick and other Paleo-Indian finds also present useful object lessons for newsgroup discussions, in that the more entrenched and inflexible one side in the Kennewick dispute gets, the more entrenched and inflexible the other side got. So much ill will has been generated, and the bones themselves have suffered so much (ironically, from the attentions of the side which claimed not to want it "disturbed" - basically, if you said you were tribal, the Corps of Engineers would let you in to see the bones) that even this obviously valuable find will be hard-pressed to yield light to match the heat now that Bonnichsen et al have won their court case (for now). In other areas, however, a generous and thoughtful give-and-take between tribes and scientists, with each side actually listening to the other and modifying their positions to accomodate each other's needs is producing gratifying results out of much less overtly valuable finds.
 
more comments relating to the Fortean character of the Pacif

To all:

This is just by way of an aside, but it also demonstrates that you can often end up in unexpected places, when you start looking somewhere else.

In looking up the location of Roanoke Island, for the map on Fortean areas in the contiguous United States, in Pamlico Sound, between North Carolina and the Outer Banks, I found that the inlet to Pamlico Sound is Oregon Inlet.



Julian Penrod
 
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