The Mysterious Case Of Elisa Lam

catseye

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Is there a type of psychosis that causes those who are feeling 'unsafe' for whatever reason to seek out small, enclosed spaces? A kind of primitive instinct to hide where they can't be seen but feel 'surrounded'? Like the burrowing instinct in those with hypothermia.

Because I can quite understand that, in all of these cases, someone who feels they are being watched, maybe followed, that there are drones or cameras watching them, that people are talking about them - to find a small, dark (and therefore unfilmable) space just to feel safe for a moment...
 

EnolaGaia

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Withdrawing from view and / or hiding are common reactions to stressful or fear-inducing circumstances. This sort of act or behavior doesn't have to be associated with a broader psychosis.

For example ... At one point in the elevator video Ms. Lam withdraws from view as much as she can and scrunches herself into the elevator's corner next to the control panel. She doesn't do this until after she seems to realize the elevator isn't behaving as she expected.
 

Eponastill

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I like this chap's channel. He reviews the Netflix series here. I thought it was interesting that he said (paraphrasing here) people want a 'bad guy' to be responsible because that makes sense of the world, whereas if someone can just lose it and tragically end up like that, then no-one's safe, which makes people uncomfortable.

Also he highlights how the overconfidence and gullibility of the websleuths only adds noise to the case, because they don't use proper ('scientific') reasoning skills in order to weigh up what's important evidence and what's insignificant, they don't evaluate the information they have critically. So what they're doing isn't Research (although that's what they call it), it's just taking any and all information out there and trying to spin a narrative out of it. Which is what led to the increasingly bizarre interpretations of the evidence, and the conspiracy theories where they start relating totally unconnected things together. But they think they're cleverer than the police (who are actually doing the investigating) and are full of contempt for the work of the police. So with firmly held convictions, which are actually false, people start acting on those beliefs because they think they're true (and that's where it can get dangerous, hence the disgraceful attack on the musician). And that may bring various other current/recent events to mind - deriving from the same irrational way of thinking.

so I thought it was quite interesting :)
 

catseye

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Withdrawing from view and / or hiding are common reactions to stressful or fear-inducing circumstances. This sort of act or behavior doesn't have to be associated with a broader psychosis.

For example ... At one point in the elevator video Ms. Lam withdraws from view as much as she can and scrunches herself into the elevator's corner next to the control panel. She doesn't do this until after she seems to realize the elevator isn't behaving as she expected.
I'd say that inserting yourself into a crawl space was a step beyond ordinary hiding, because of the effort involved in getting into there.
 

Mythopoeika

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I'd say that inserting yourself into a crawl space was a step beyond ordinary hiding, because of the effort involved in getting into there.
It might be because they heard insects or a mouse scrabbling about in the crawlspace, so they went to investigate and either got stuck or had a heart attack.
 

Souleater

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I like this chap's channel. He reviews the Netflix series here. I thought it was interesting that he said (paraphrasing here) people want a 'bad guy' to be responsible because that makes sense of the world, whereas if someone can just lose it and tragically end up like that, then no-one's safe, which makes people uncomfortable.

Also he highlights how the overconfidence and gullibility of the websleuths only adds noise to the case, because they don't use proper ('scientific') reasoning skills in order to weigh up what's important evidence and what's insignificant, they don't evaluate the information they have critically. So what they're doing isn't Research (although that's what they call it), it's just taking any and all information out there and trying to spin a narrative out of it. Which is what led to the increasingly bizarre interpretations of the evidence, and the conspiracy theories where they start relating totally unconnected things together. But they think they're cleverer than the police (who are actually doing the investigating) and are full of contempt for the work of the police. So with firmly held convictions, which are actually false, people start acting on those beliefs because they think they're true (and that's where it can get dangerous, hence the disgraceful attack on the musician). And that may bring various other current/recent events to mind - deriving from the same irrational way of thinking.

so I thought it was quite interesting :)
One question i would ask is, did this guy have any previous knowledge of the case, background or information, or was he just reviewing a programme?
Also he says thay the issue of the open/closed lid of the water tank was blown up by people, but then says this was caused by mixed/misreporting, people can only form an opinion on something based on the information before them, if that information is wrong or it appears to change from time to time, it is obvious that those with a suspicious bent are going to seize on these inconsistancies as evience of a cover up/conspiricy, so if the reports of the initial investigation were accurate it would nip these issues in the bud. Another thing is the blaming of, so called web sleuths, for what happened to the musician is a bit misleading, the media are the ones that picked up on the story and ran with it, im reminded of the Christopher Jefferies incident, who was accused by the media of murdering Joanna Yeates, with no evidence what so ever, and whos life was made unbearable, there was even a film made about his wrongful castigation.
 

GNC

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My ex-boss went missing for days, he was found hiding behind the water tank in his loft/attic.
He'd had a breakdown, and never came back to work again.
The mind is a strange thing.
Yes, if you're psychotic, you're not behaving rationally. I don't know why this is so difficult to process for so many people. Well, I do, it's because it's just not rational in the first place. Making sense of the psychosis is a fool's errand.
 

Lord Lucan

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Here's an interesting video by Scott Michaels of L.A's Dearly Departed Tours fame who follows Elisa's path though the Cecil Hotel, the elevator ride as well as a rooftop visit to the water tanks.

 

Naughty_Felid

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Just watched the Netflix doco which had Ron Howard and Brian Grazer as executive producers.

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/docum...hing-at-the-cecil-hotel-release-date-netflix/

A good overview with interviews with people involved in the case. Basically, it's a case of Occam's Razor, she came off her medication, probably quite stressed out by how "real" that part of LA was, and killed herself accidentally. The signs were there, She had been moved out of a room she shared with two other girls for odd behavior. Her Tumblr blog displayed a long history of a very fragile M/S. The true horror of Skid Row was very obvious and she'd not kept with her medication regime. (She was on a pretty hefty mix of drugs, that leaned towards a psychotic and depressive element to her bipolar and would fit a dissociative disorder diagnosis too)

The real eye-opener was the Web Sleuth community. For people who pride themselves on their deductive reasoning, there was very little on display. The lack of critical thinking was incredible. The coroner paperwork where the wrong box was ticked, crossed out, (initialed btw and dated), and the right one ticked show's it was a cover-up between the authorities and the hotel? So you've never ticked the wrong box on a form? If it was a conspiracy wouldn't they just replace the paperwork? It was genuinely weird how over-involved and irrational a community gets, a real precursor to QAnon.

The hounding of the "musician" was also very scary.

The saddest thing, apart from the obvious death, was just how little the hotel did to protect young people from around the world who visited. The hotel had revamped part of it to attract young global travelers. Yet offered very little in the way of support or guidance in a very dangerous part of town.

I don't blame the Hotel Manager I think she was out of her depth and had nothing in the way of a budget to work with.

7 out of 10.
 
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Austin Popper

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Thanks NF. I might have to watch it. Had no idea Ron Howard was involved. Didn't know there was a CT based on a mistake made on a form. That's just lame. I just today scratched out my doctor's name on a form, after making two stabs at it and giving up.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Thanks NF. I might have to watch it. Had no idea Ron Howard was involved. Didn't know there was a CT based on a mistake made on a form. That's just lame. I just today scratched out my doctor's name on a form, after making two stabs at it and giving up.
There are a few things that the WS community just assumed was part of a foul play scenario which when explored wasn't.
 

James_H

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The real eye-opener was the Web Sleuth community. For people who pride themselves on their deductive reasoning, there was very little on display. The lack of critical thinking was incredible. The coroner paperwork where the wrong box was ticked, crossed out, (initialed btw and dated), and the right one ticked show's it was a cover-up between the authorities and the hotel? So you've never ticked the wrong box on a form? If it was a conspiracy wouldn't they just replace the paperwork? It was genuinely weird how over-involved and irrational a community gets, a real precursor to QAnon.
If you're interested in the 'Web Sleuth' community I can recommend a documentary called 'Don't Fuck With Cats' which goes into some detail about them.

In the Elisa Lam documentary case, one of them was particularly distasteful - the guy who had someone touch her grave and film it for his personal 'closure'. It was really creepy and gross.
 
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