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Dyslexia

Quake42

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Feb 25, 2004
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Interesting article in the Guardian today and a programme to follow on C4 tomorrow... suspect it will ruffle a few feathers.

Is dyslexia just a myth?

Julian Elliott says dyslexia does not exist - at least, not in the way we think it does. His views have earned him hate mail, but, he tells Joanna Moorhead, it's time someone spoke out

A couple of days ago, my 10-year-old nephew's attention was caught by a trailer for a Dispatches programme going out on Channel 4 tomorrow night. The trailer was only a few seconds long, but it left him feeling confused and upset. He went to find my sister-in-law to ask her if he'd understood properly what he'd heard. "Mum, I've just heard there's a programme about how dyslexia doesn't exist," he said. "That's not true, is it?"

My sister-in-law felt her hackles rise, as she's felt them rise often over the six or seven years she's battled to get her son a statement of special needs for his dyslexia. "Every day of his life, my son has to go to school and see other children who are no brighter than him do better than him," she says. "And every day I have to tell him why that is. 'You're not less bright than them,' I tell him. 'You're dyslexic.' "
My sister-in-law hasn't yet joined the ranks of angry parents sending hate emails to Professor Julian Elliott of Durham University, the academic at the centre of the storm that has broken over the existence, or otherwise, of dyslexia, but if she had his email address I suspect she might very well do so. For parents like her, who have spent years trying to get their children's reading, language and writing difficulties dealt with properly in the classroom, the moment the official label of "dyslexia" arrives is a moment of triumph. Doors are opened, classroom assistants are allocated, special help is given. And, best of all, the dyslexia test incorporates an IQ test, to prove, to any doubters out there, that your child isn't simply thick.

Elliott is well aware of the anger and emotion he's going to stir among viewers tomorrow night, and has already stirred up with a newspaper article at the weekend: after all, he says, his work as an educational psychologist dealing with children with reading difficulties has put him in close proximity with these very families for the past 30 years. But, despite all his experience, he doesn't believe he could find any difference between a child labelled "dyslexic" and a child labelled "a poor reader". In other words, he doesn't believe that, amidst the broader group of struggling-to-read children, there is a special group of kids with a different IQ who need special intervention to help them overcome their reading problem. What's more, he says, there are simply too many so-called dyslexic children to make the term meaningful: once you get such a high number of children as there are today labelled with a condition such as dyslexia (that's around 375,000 in this country), you've simply got to question whether there's any real basis to the label at all.

So far, so nasty: what Elliott's arguments sound like is a big hammer to bash all those middle-class parents who've decided that their struggling-to-read child can't be just, well, struggling to read. The British Dyslexia Association has described his views as "very damaging and insulting to people who are trying to overcome their dyslexia".

Elliott, however, says he has been misunderstood: "I can understand parents wanting to get this label, because there's a human need for labels. But what parents believe is that the label will lead to an intervention, in much the same way that a diagnosis of a broken arm leads to effective treatment. And what I'd argue is that the intervention they receive when their child is labelled dyslexic isn't effective - and furthermore, it's very expensive and time-consuming, and it diverts resources away from what could be being done better to help all children with reading problems."

At the root of this, says Elliott, is the widespread misconception that an inability to read and write and use language effectively is linked with IQ. "In fact, reading isn't something that requires a high level of intelligence," he says. "Amongst children who struggle to read, you find some with a high IQ, some in the middle and some with a low IQ." The real tragedy of that misconception lies in the fact that children who are poor readers are too often assumed to be less capable: they are put into the lower teaching groups, given easier work at school, and are not intellectually challenged as they should be. And what that means, in turn, is that they not only underachieve, they also become disaffected by the education process and become unenthusiastic about learning.

In one sense it's to overcome that danger that so many parents seek out the dyslexia label, which brings with it dividends of extra help and encouragement in the classroom. But, says Elliott, their attempt to put a sticking plaster over their own kid's wound has led to resources being diverted away from children for whom a more comprehensive programme of intervention might be far better deployed. "There's an element of unfairness in all this, because there's clearly a group of clued-up parents who are able to take a certain route, get their child labelled dyslexic and then get more help than other children struggling to read," he says. By the same token, there's another group of not-so-well-informed parents whose kids are not getting the help that would make a difference - and whose long-term prospects suffer colossal damage as a result.

And crucially, Elliott goes on, there's now evidence from research at York University that shows - contrary to what you might have expected - that children with a low IQ can be helped just as much with reading problems as children with a high IQ, providing it's the right reading programme and providing it's implemented in the right way. What you might have expected is that children with a low IQ wouldn't progress as quickly as children with a high IQ: but what these studies in York have found, he says, is that they do.

And what that means is that it's misguided as well as unfair for resources to be concentrated amongst just one group of poor readers rather than across the group as a whole. According to academics interviewed in the Dispatches programme, there is now an overwhelming body of evidence to prove that it's intervention as early as possible in life that pays off: in particular, a programme pioneered in Cumbria has produced extraordinarily successful results, raising the reading age of children by eight or nine months after just a 12-week intensive course - a result that is, apparently, seven or eight times better than other conventional programmes for dyslexics. The bottom line is obvious: resources should be taken away from the expensive and time-consuming process of identifying dyslexics, often when they're well into primary or even secondary school, and sunk instead into a top-notch early intervention catch-all scheme that targets all poor readers as early as possible, and deals with them efficiently at the point of diagnosis and not years down the line, and only then if their parents manage to get a statement of special needs.

At the moment, millions of pounds alone are spent on the process of merely identifying children with dyslexia. There's no uniform test, and different psychologists have different ideas about which things to look at: but Elliott's view is that they're all a waste of time and money. "Some tests look at memory, some at sounds and words, some at visual processing," says Elliott. "The traditional route was to identify a child whose IQ was high, but whose reading level was low: that test is still being used in some places, although you could ask why look at a child's IQ when deciding if they need special reading help? But the bottom line is that experts can't agree precisely what set of problems make up the condition they call dyslexia: and if you can't agree on what a condition is, how on earth can you test for it?" Or to put it another way, as they do in the Dispatches programme: either every child with poor reading ability is dyslexic, or none of them is.

Another part of the jigsaw is new research that shows that reading difficulties may be due to some not-yet-understood brain malfunction: what experts believe is there's some area of the brain that distinguishes the tiniest differences between sounds that doesn't work properly in some children, and this affects their reading. The cause could be genetic - half of all reading problems are inherited - but environment is important too, and early exposure to talking, songs and nursery rhymes could all help reduce the impact of this problem if it is present, while a lack of early interaction could lead to damage even where there isn't an inherited disorder.

All of which leads Elliott to the conclusion he believes hasn't yet been properly understood, which is that all kids - including those who will later be labelled as dyslexics - would be helped, and hugely, by an early intervention programme such as that used in Cumbria (one other authority, North Yorkshire, is about to introduce it too, but others are lagging behind). The programme targets, initially, all children to help reinforce the importance of distinguishing every sound: it then picks out those having difficulties, and gives them extra help. The results, according to Dispatches, is stunning. Parents shouldn't be resistant to his claims, he says: what he and his colleagues are suggesting is a way of identifying all children with a problem, and a lot earlier on.

It all sounds very convincing, but I suspect that, when the telly goes off at my sister-in-law's house tomorrow evening, there will still be upset and confusion. The problem is that parents such as my sister-in-law are forever hearing that the truth about dyslexia is this, or this, or that: they're all researched out. And even if they did buy into Elliott's thesis, early intervention programmes aren't going to be any good to them now. For families like them, giving up the dyslexia label they have fought tooth and nail for isn't going to be easy. How do you tell kids such as my nephew that the condition that has come to define their lives may actually be just a fairytale?
 
Yeah I read that earlier - it seems to make a lot of sense but what do people who deal with Special Needs kids think? I'm going to quiz my Dad later but wanted to throw the floor open for discussion.
 
As some one who has been disgnosed dyslexic I feel that it is a problem that is over diagnosed. (like ADHD but that's another thread).
There are lots of different levels. I have no problem reading but I have real trouble writing. I don't think I am dyslexic I just have a problem writing!
It's wrong to say that it doesn't exist but it does need re assesing
 
The spectrum for dyslexia is huge. Most of us are (apparently) to a certain degree but if affects us in different ways. Some of us could just be crap at our lefts and rights, some can't spell for toffee.

A classic dyslexic cannot process linear text and their brain cannot make a connection between the pattern of the words and the sound they ought to make.

I agree it is over diagnosed but it's a safe diagnosis as parents love labels and like to say "Oh, my little johnny is a right pain in the arse because he's dyslexic" (Not because he's not had any boundries or rules).

It certainly exsists though.
 
My 9 year old has a problem writing too. He's good at spelling, but when writing he's constantly misspelling words. It's like what's in his brain doesn't reach his hand. He doesn't reverse letters..he just leaves some off or generally misspells words. When you ask him how you spell whatever, he can tell you correctly. This isn't a form of dyslexia though, right? Is there a term for it?
 
Sounds like he's an auditory learner where he works well listening. Does he have a good memory? Very probably.

We all learn differently. Some of us are visual (writing things down helps us remember) and some of us kinesthetic (usually dyslexics) becuase they cope with learning by doing and making stuff.

A lot of dyslexics are good at maths, practical science, have good memories and are often arty or good at technological subjects like woodwork.

One of the boys from my old school may never be able to fathom how to use a dictionary but he's going to make a bloody good carpenter one day.

As for you son Reneehsv, I'm sure he maybe placed on the spectrum but just to identify he may have a problem. It could be something, with practice, he grows out of though, you never know.
 
I suspect it's one of those labels which has become devalued by a multitude of people 'jumping on the bandwagon' , so to speak, as soon as it gained credibility as a genuine condition. Just as it seems currently trendy for geeky types to announce that they are suffering from Asperger Syndrome, so parents with a child who is a little backward with his reading will decide that their little treasure must be dyslexic.

Unfortunately, people love their labels, and it seems that in today's over-psychologised society you are not a complete person unless you can lay claim to one 'condition' or another.
 
Never a truer word Graylien.

Working in a school you see parents who have children being diagnosed and the label is as only as high as the child can achieve. It's very sad that they stop at "He can't, he's dyslexic" and dismiss anything else that the kid may be capable of.

It also goes towards our blame culture. It gives us an excuse when things go wrong and then we never have to take responsibility.

But then...you see parents who are brilliant and you could kiss and wish they could spread their magic and skills elsewhere. :D
 
My son is always making careless mistakes. If he gets answers wrong on a test, and the teacher then asks him the questions, then he knows the answer. But for some reason, putting it on paper is a problem for him. I've always said whatever is in his brain just doesn't fully reach his hand because he will know the answers, but putting them on paper is a different story.

He does learn best by hands on experience but most people do, don't they? I do.

I think he is an auditory learner. With spelling words, he repeats them out loud several times, then knows them when I call them out. We've had lots of trouble w/ him because he doesn't seem to care about learning. I've taken him to Sylvan (waaaaaay expensive) for testing and he's perfectly capable. The teachers always say he's capable. I've had his vision tested...everything I can think of.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic.
 
Hehe Reneehsv, your post reminded me of an incident at my old school, where the teachers were discussing the students and their rather average grades. One teacher said "Bless them, they do try" and the science teacher, who was a bit more on the ball, replied "Nonsense, they're all lazy buggers!"

:lol:

Seriously, though, I always preferred oral exams to written ones. Partly because you can flit back and forth and come up with connections you might not have discovered if you were sticking to the more rigid structure of an essay, and partly because writing is so slow - your hand struggles to keep up with the ideas wizzing through your head. Maybe your son is a bit like that.

Does he like learning outside of school? If so, he may just be bored in class...
 
Hi Sally,

He is smart. He comes up with some very inventive ideas...he's creative and as his teacher said to me "he thinks very much outside the box". I think that's a wonderful thing. However, when it comes to sitting down and having to focus on anything (especially anything he finds boring..which is every subject in school), his mind wonders I guess. I thought maybe he has ADD and his doctor actually put him on meds. But they don't seem to affect him one way or another. Besides, I don't like having him on medicine to begin with but we had to do something. The boy failed first grade. He's now in 3rd grade but still has the same ole half ass, sloppy, misspelled words, no name on paper approach to all school work. :cry:
 
One thing that irritated me at work was our diversity training which stated that we were not permitted to discriminate against dyslexics. Given that the work of my team at least involves almost exclusively fairly detailed written communications, it is insane to say that I could not discriminate against someone who had problems with reading and writing. It's like saying that I could force the Olympic 100m team to select me because otherwise I would feel oppressed :roll:
 
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einstein and churchill were dyslexic.

Is there actually any evidence for this? Or for the "fact" that Leonardo was dyslexic? How were they diagnosed?

I'm not saying the condition doesn't exist, but my understanding is that true dyslexia is a very rare syndrome. It does seem that "dyslexic" is used as a catch all term for people who are slow readers and/or poor spellers.
 
dyslexics once treated are not necessarily slow readers, learners or bad spellers. but many bright people are bad spellers. william butler yeats was an appalling speller. thats the main reason he didnt get to be professor of english literature at TCD.

speaking of spelling i've just lost a long mail on heritage council grants in the middle of a spellcheck. someone will die for this.
 
dyslexics once treated are not necessarily slow readers, learners or bad spellers.

Granted, but that doesn't detract from my contention that the diagnosis of a rather rare syndrome, ie dyslexia, seems to be being used as an excuse for children and adults who struggle to read quickly, write sensibly and/or spell properly.

And to some extent, even if we accept that there is a genuine "disability" here, it seems reasonable to exclude people suffering from that disability from a job based largely on high standards of written English, in much the same way as we would not allow a paraplegic to join the Marines.
 
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a certain level of literacy, or familiarity with the language. My present job (tech support) requires the ability to explain technical procedures, often complex ones, clearly to people who are more often than not intimidated or reluctant to do it themselves; this demands a certain proficiency in the language (and a fair amount of people skills which, believe it or not, I do possess!). In the past we have had employees who were mumblers, or abrupt with people, or simply difficult to understand and frankly they often had their callers hang up on them in sheer frustration, or complain to TPTB. I don't blame them; it's hard enough steering some "I hate computers oh why is this so hard argh scream" person through setting up their email or diagnosing a network issue even if you speak like an Oxford don and have the patience of a kindergarten teacher. A lot of our replies are sent through emails and I'm appalled at the literacy level of students at a big-name university. They can't ALL be dyslexic. One student fobbed it off by saying "It's not like I'm being graded on it"--no, but you're representing us professionally, and it looks ridiculous.
 
FWIW, my own view is that dyslexia probably does exist but that it is massively over-diagnosed. There's another thread somewhere about the tendency for anyone with poor social skills to be labelled as "high functioning autistic" and there are other examples - eg dyspraxia (ie having poor co-ordination and being a bit clumsy) or ADHD (aka being a little sh*t).

There does seem to be an inclination to label anyone who struggles to read and write as "dyslexic" especially of course if they are middle class! Many middle class parents find it hard to accept that their child is, well, maybe just a slow reader, and scrabble around for a name to give the syndrome.

I would simply say that I believe that to state that wishing to recruit someone who can do the job in question as opposed to someone who cannot - for whatever reason -s certainly not discrimination in any meaningful sense of the word and to suggest otherwise really is political correctness gone mad...
 
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I think it's simply more palatable to 'medicalize' something rather than admit it's a lack of proficiency. Spelling isn't necessarily linked to intelligence; my cousin is an appalling speller yet has a PhD in anthropology.

A young woman I know demanded that she be permitted to work as a returning officer a couple of federal elections ago. This would involve inspecting voters' IDs, ballots, checking lists, etc. The catch: she's blind. Like, dog and cane blind. When told it wasn't such a hot idea she SUED.
 
Just some anecdotal info about the dyslexia issue.

A couple of my friends have been diagnosed with dyslexia, they think it is brilliant as, if they have it at all, it is so minute a problem that it barley affects them and they get a load of free computer equipment to boot.

I have also heard of a fella, not a friend I may add, who passed his dyslexia test, got a free computer then promptly sold it to buy a new sound system for his university room.
 
Bistoinferno said:
...

I have also heard of a fella, not a friend I may add, who passed his dyslexia test, got a free computer then promptly sold it to buy a new sound system for his university room.
FOAF? :rofl:
 
Well I dont know if it was a friend of my friend but at least someone who was known to them.

At one point though back in comp we had a plan so that one of our mates who was diagnosed with dyslexia would tell us what we had to do in the test to pass or fail depending on your view point and thus make us eligable for a free laptop.

We never did this of course.
 
I actually know someone first-hand who managed to persuade his university that an minidisc player was an investment essential for his education :shock:
 
Since it has become fashionable to doubt the existence of of Dyslexia, time to bump this Thread.

I believe it exists, but like chronic back pain it's hard to prove medically and therefore a condition that could be open to abuse.
 
German scientists find dyslexia gene


General Science : June 20, 2006

German researchers say they've found a genetic component for the learning disability dyslexia, possibly opening new methods of treatment.


People with dyslexia often reverse written letters, numbers and words, or might read backward.

Now, the Bonn's National Genome Research Network scientists say they have located the dyslexia gene, known as DCDC2.

The presence of the gene makes it five times more likely for a person to be diagnosed as dyslexic, said the group of German scientists, who theorize the gene probably disturbs a person's brain development.

Human genetics expert Johannes Schumacher, one of the researchers from the University of Bonn, said the discovery is a first step in finding treatment for the disorder, Deutsche Welle reported.

"The unusual thing is that it is one of the first illness genes at all to be found in the area of reading and writing disabilities," Schumacher told German public broadcaster WDR.

While researchers have found the gene responsible for dyslexia, there is still no treatment. "However," said Schumacher, "we hope it can help us better understand the processes of cellular biology that lead to dyslexia, and in the future, better understand how this disability develops."


http://www.physorg.com/news70032777.html
 
The educational psychologist who diagnosed my dyspraxia had no doubts about it. 'Just the way your bran's wired!' :D

Nobody really knows exactly how we learn to read. Different methods are often tried for teaching it, partly because different methods work for different children.

Teachers have told me that what works best is seeing people read at home, before the child ever starts school. That's not something you can reproduce in a classroom!
 
Indeed, brain wiring, homelife and teaching. Nature via nurture. Although, I remember my Dad getting really upset (back in the 70's) when a special needs teacher took a kid from his class and diagnosed learning difficulties. Now, my father (who took a few years of a medical degree - plus psych courses) disagreed and thought the problem attentional; moreover, he thought theproblem may be hearing related. A simple hearing test demonstrated that this kid had about a 25% reduction in hearing in both ears and so was straining to catch words and so forth. Moving the kid to the front of the class (his parents wouldn't go for a hearing aid) made a great difference in just a term. There are many possible explanations for learning difficulties, however, in my opinion, one of the biggest problems is that state psychologists (educational, clinical or whathave you) only have a limited amount of time with each child they see, and so sweeping diagnosis will be made. As ever, cash and time seem to me to be the first hurdle.
 
As ever, cash and time seem to me to be the first hurdle.

Well that and the fact that an entire industry has grown up around medicalising perfectly normal conditions and behaviour.

Kid a slow reader? Must be dyslexic.
Carrying a few extra pounds? Seriously obese.
Enjoy a couple of pints in the evening? Alcoholic.

Etc, etc.

In the case of dyslexia, it seems to me that the medical specialists involved have a vested interest in diagnosing children as suffering from the condition. After all, it keeps them in work. Plus, parents would probably rather hear that little Johnny is "dyslexic" rather than simply not very bright...
 
Nah, plenty of perfectly 'bright' children (and adults) have reading difficulties. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
 
I can't spell for toffee even my own middle name is frequently spelt incorrectly, however I can read perfectly at high speed, a friend of mine can't spell and can struggle to read very complex books very slowly. Both of us have achieved qualifications that exhibit a degree of intelligence and achieved results in our lives that indicate a none lazy nature. Unless I try really hard and write very slowly my handwriting looks like the efforts of a slapdash 11 year old. I have thought for years that I may have a type of dyslexia and I have a great deal of sympathy for parents struggling to get an appointment to see a specialist in the hope of getting a diagnosis which might prompt a little extra help.
I think dyslexia might be a memory issue, this is based on my own experience of just not being able to remember how to spell words I see all the time and forgetting in which direction lower case letters face.
 
Nah, plenty of perfectly 'bright' children (and adults) have reading difficulties. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

Well I wouldn't go quite as far as to say that the ability to communicate easily and fluently in written format has *nothing* to do with intelligence.

I think written skills are a form of intelligence - obviously not the only sort.

I agree that otherwise articulate and smart people can struggle to read long documents. I would also say though that, in my experience at least, children who read well from an early age tend to grw up into intelligent, succesful adults.
 
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