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Dyslexia

Plenty of dyslexic children grow up to be equally successful too. In fact, some very high achievers are dyslexic.

Reading and writing are skills which can be taught and learned, and in which some people are naturally more proficient than others. Like drawing, painting, playing music, dancing, sports, tying knots, you name it. Nobody's good at everything.
 
Reading and writing are skills which can be taught and learned, and in which some people are naturally more proficient than others. Like drawing, painting, playing music, dancing, sports, tying knots, you name it. Nobody's good at everything.

Oh sure - but I would say that aptitude for most of the things you describe above represents one or another form of intelligence.
 
Quick point - reading and writing maybe skills that are taught, but the 'hardware' (neurological substrate) can have wiring problems, thus a standard education is not enough to compensate for any difficulties that may arise. Indeed, either with or without help children with learning difficulties use adaptive strategies to compensate (or avoid) words/numbers or conversation. In most cases (reading and writing difficulties) 'one' area of investigation is memory. Many tests isolate visual and auditory memory components (based on a working memory scenario) and results in conjunction with theory lead to a conclusion regarding how much 'attentional resources' the child/adult can or cannot bring to bear in each domain. For example, a friend of mine (who is very bright) cannot attend for any length of time with a purely visual medium. He tends to skip over words and misform them when asked to recall and write them down - although, it has been proposed that he is dyslexic, it has also been suggested that he was lazy as a child when learning to read and write and has capatilised on the current system (he plays both cards depending on who is listening - and what he can get outof it ----Just to stop any sympathy for him: he is going to be a lawyer ;) ).
 
Quake42 said:
Reading and writing are skills which can be taught and learned, and in which some people are naturally more proficient than others. Like drawing, painting, playing music, dancing, sports, tying knots, you name it. Nobody's good at everything.

Oh sure - but I would say that aptitude for most of the things you describe above represents one or another form of intelligence.

Oh no, it's that defining 'intelligence' time again.

*unlocks bicycle, checks tyre pressure, puts on clips and cape *
 
Friend of mine is horribly dyslexic - can't spell for toffee and their reading aloud (even easy stuff) is laboured to the point where they sound like a nine-year-old - yet they started their career in a role that included being speech writer for an MP (no jokes) and now has a very high powered job, of which communication and public speaking is key, and is one of the cleverest people I know.
 
Web address: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 175122.htm


Source: University of Southern California
Date: December 14, 2006
More on: Children's Health, Attention Deficit Disorder, Perception, Language Acquisition, ADD and ADHD, Child Psychology

New Dyslexia Theory Blames 'Noise' -- Poor Filtering Of Unwanted Data May Be Root Cause
The dyslexic brain struggles to read because even small distractions can throw it off, according to a new model of dyslexia emerging from a group of recent studies.

The studies contradict an influential, 30-year-old theory that blamed dyslexia on a neural deficit in processing the fast sounds of language.

Instead, the studies suggest that children with dyslexia have bad filters for irrelevant data. As a result, they struggle to form solid mental categories for identifying letters and word sounds.

Such children may benefit from intensive training under "noisy" conditions to strengthen their mental templates, said University of Southern California neuroscientist Zhong-Lin Lu.

Lu was a co-author on three studies, along with lead author and former USC graduate student Anne Sperling (now at the National Institute of Mental Health), USC psychologist Franklin Manis and University of Wisconsin, Madison psychologist Mark Seidenberg.

The most recent study is due to be published later this month in Psychological Science.

Confusion about dyslexia rivals the confusion of dyslexia. Many still think that to have dyslexia means to mix up your letters (one of many possible symptoms having to do with word recognition, directional ability and decoding of symbols).

What is known is that dyslexia affects millions of children, with estimates of its incidence ranging from 5 to 15 percent.

Sperling, who conducted her research as a doctoral student at USC, said the new findings point to a deeper problem - not just a visual deficit - affecting all areas of perception.

Sperling said people with dyslexia appear to have shaky mental categories for the essential sounds that make up language.

"It's harder to make a [language] task automatic when your categories are fuzzier than they ought to be to begin with," she said.

"In terms of treatment, the results suggest that programs that foster the development of sharper perceptual categories for letters and letter sounds might be a good way to supplement existing dyslexia interventions," she added.

Lu said, "Train them in noise."

The new study in Psychological Science builds on similar results published by the team of Sperling, Lu, Manis and Seidenberg last year in Nature Neuroscience.

In addition, the same authors previously showed that poor readers also have trouble figuring out categories in simple card games.

Other recent studies lend support to the noise exclusion theory.

Johannes Ziegler of the Universite de Provence in Marseille, France, was the lead author on a study of dyslexia and auditory noise published this year in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Ziegler said his results suggest that dyslexia stems from shaky categories for phonemes (the basic sounds of language).

"In silence, information is often redundant and dyslexics get away with the perception deficit," Ziegler said in an e-mail. "In noise, however, they can no longer compensate.

"What is important is that noisy environments are the rule and not the exception," he added, citing a study from South Bank University in the U.K. that found average noise levels in primary classrooms to be as high as near a busy intersection.

"What Sperling and Lu's data suggest is that the mechanism responsible for faulty phonological development is quite general and has to do with attention in a broad sense....

"This is a great paper of very high significance... As people like Steve Grossberg [of Boston University] have argued for many years, attention ... is crucial for stable learning of categories."

Ziegler called for preventive training for children with weak speech perception in noise in kindergarten or early primary grades, saying they are at greater risk for developing dyslexia.

He also cited a Northwestern University study from 2003 that documented negative effects from noise on children with learning deficits.

Lu said there is a "lot of evidence" of learning problems from ambient noise. In one such study, Manis and a collaborator from UCLA found that children with dyslexia struggled to discriminate similar sounds, like "spy" and "sky," because they weighed irrelevant differences in sounds equally with key distinctions.

Manis also cited research from Finland and the United States showing that infants with dyslexic parents lag behind their peers in forming categories for speech sounds.

In the conclusion to their study in Psychological Science, the authors speculate that the deficit in noise exclusion may have biochemical roots in abnormal levels of GABA, a neurotransmitter that helps the brain to filter out irrelevant information.

"This may become interesting for drug development," said Lu, who is testing this hypothesis with functional magnetic resonance imaging trials.

Lu and his collaborators interpret the new results as a rejection of the "magnocellular hypothesis" - named for a type of neuron involved in processing fast visual information - that influenced dyslexia research for decades.

The researchers found that the magnocellular pathway works normally both in children with dyslexia and in adult poor readers - as long as visual or aural noise is low.

As external noise goes up, the same subjects begin to score poorly on visual pattern tests.

The deficit persists even when the task requires only slow processing.

"The findings, and particularly the [slow processing] ones, are consistent with the hypothesis that ... dyslexic children have difficulty setting their signal filters to optimum and ignoring distracting noise," Lu said at the time of the Nature Neuroscience study.

The new study in Psychological Science was designed to replicate visual tests on motion perception from seminal experiments in the 1970s, with the addition of variable external noise. It also found no magnocellular deficit.

"These were the stimuli people used to establish the magnocellular hypothesis," Lu said. "This is a more direct test of what we said before [in the Nature Neuroscience study], which used different spatial and temporal patterns."

Funding for this research came from a grant to Manis from the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development.

The NICHD defines dyslexia as "a specific learning disability that is neurobiological in origin. It is characterized by difficulties with accurate and/or fluent word recognition and by poor spelling and decoding abilities. These difficulties typically result from a deficit in the phonological component of language that is often unexpected in relation to other cognitive abilities and the provision of effective classroom instruction.

Secondary consequences may include problems in reading comprehension and reduced reading experience that can impede growth of vocabulary and background knowledge."
 
ramonmercado said:
Web address: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 175122.htm

"What is important is that noisy environments are the rule and not the exception," he added, citing a study from South Bank University in the U.K. that found average noise levels in primary classrooms to be as high as near a busy intersection.

As far as I'm aware, happy to be corrected, but isn't there a rise in dyslexia or at least a diagnosis of it? I'm wondering whether there's some correlation between that and the way the classroom environment has changed over the years. When I was a kid, classrooms and schools generally seemed very quiet (perhaps read as strict?) places apart from playtime - more so when I went to grammar school. Also, as far as I'm aware, class sizes have increased generally. More kids = more background noise generally, surely? Again, if there's more kids to control and less means for a teacher to control the kids, surely that adds up to more noise too?
 
Yup, I well remember my primary school days of 40 years ago, when the peace of the classrom was broken only by the thwack of the teacher's plimsoll on the 'slow' kid's backside after another failed attempt at reading aloud. :roll:
 
I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but at teacher's college we were told that 40% of Ontario students have been diagnosed with some sort of learning disability--which of course makes me wonder many things, among them "if it's 40%, can it be considered 'abnormal'?"
 
Yup, I see what you mean. I reckon it's about a. the fact that human abilities are more subtle that we previously suspected and so b. it is harder to fit people into neat categories than we used to think.

People aren't good at everything - they can't be. It may be possible to appreciate a learning disability as the things someone can't do are more than made up for by the things they can. 8)
 
If lessons are dull, Kids wont learn.

I never learned to read untill I was eight, then I found books were fun.

No one taught me this

By the time I was ten, I could read better than most adults
 
People aren't good at everything - they can't be. It may be possible to appreciate a learning disability as the things someone can't do are more than made up for by the things they can.

I think that's right - people have different abilities. If people are claiming, as per Leaferne's post, that 40% of students have a learning disability then the term "learning disability" has lost all meaning. Being below average does not mean you have a disability.

In my case I sometimes have poor hand eye co-ordination and so, learning to drive, for example, took me longer than a lot of my friends. It's hardly a disability though.
 
I also wonder what, if any, psychological or emotional factors are taken into account; an anxious or depressed kid might have reduced concentration, for instance. I don't know enough about how the testing is done, but I do know that the diagnoses rise as the kids get older and presumably are facing more complex tasks in school.

Cynically, some say that the LD diagnosis is one of convenience in some cases, e.g. extra time to write tests.
 
Cynically, some say that the LD diagnosis is one of convenience in some cases, e.g. extra time to write tests.

Certainly in the UK some parents will push very hard for their kid to be "statemented" (receive a "statement of special needs") if s/he is struggling academically as this means extra tuition, special help with tests etc. There are even people who set themselves up as educational consultants to assist with this.

I know a woman who spent months and months getting her son this "statement" but as far as I can tell he had no "special needs" or "learning disability". He just wasn't as academic as some of the other kids in the class. She was unable to accept this and insisted that there must be some problem which had to be put right...
 
Here in Sweden there´s a man who´s been very succesful with a publishing company. He´s a multi-millionaire in fact. Interesting thing is he´s dyslexic and can´t read at all. Rather ironic earning your money in publishing then.
 
Former Blair Babe, Golden Girl, Minister for Education and alleged cilise wearing member of Opus Dei, Ruth Kelly's, 'special needs' son, who mummy took out of the State System to give him an easier and more privileged and ride in a Private school, is allegedly not only suffering from that devastating disability, dyslexia, but also dyspraxia. The two conditions may be related in some individuals.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2537385,00.html
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=10474
 
I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here. You may have very little time for Ms Kelly and you may argue that her decision smacks of hypocrisy, but whatever we may think the correct definition of "learning disability" is, I don't think it is fair to sneer at an individual child, regardless of who his parents are.
 
Well, this is the bit that would piss me off, from the Times article:

Labour was criticised while Ms Kelly was Education Secretary for closing schools that cater for children with learning difficulties. Some 138 have shut in the past ten years.
 
Labour was criticised while Ms Kelly was Education Secretary for closing schools that cater for children with learning difficulties. Some 138 have shut in the past ten years.

Yes, although this doesn't tell the full story... a lot of this was driven by a desire to ensure that children with special needs - including in a lot of cases children who were simply physically disabled - integrated with their peers and were not shut away in schools which tended to have very low expectations of their pupils. This certainly hasn't been an unqualified success, and many parents say they preferred the old system, but I think that Times quote is a little misleading.
 
Quake42 said:
I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here. You may have very little time for Ms Kelly and you may argue that her decision smacks of hypocrisy, but whatever we may think the correct definition of "learning disability" is, I don't think it is fair to sneer at an individual child, regardless of who his parents are.
I'm curious to know why the Poster thinks that I was sneering at the child's learning disabilities?

As I've posted earlier on this Thread, unlike the Poster (apparently), I do believe that dyslexia actually exists.
 
It's the way you word it Pietro:

'special needs' son, who mummy took out of the State System to give him an easier and more privileged and ride in a Private school

sounds pretty sneery to me. And as for:

As I've posted earlier on this Thread, unlike the Poster (apparently), I do believe that dyslexia actually exists.

I think I have stated quite clearly that I believe the condition exists, but that it is vastly over-diagnosed. Some people with below average reading ability may be dyslexic. However, the majority simply have a below average reading ability.
 
Quake42 said:
It's the way you word it Pietro:

'special needs' son, who mummy took out of the State System to give him an easier and more privileged and ride in a Private school

sounds pretty sneery to me. ...
Well, 'mummy' in this case, is an absolute bloody hypocritical disgrace, imho.
 
Iirc mummy closed 4000+ places for SEN children when she was the education minister, a devastating measure for parents of SEN children who don't have 15K a year for education. So they integrate and spend their school lives being reminded that in their case special means crap to be teased and bullied.
 
Interesting. A real cure?

Ex-rugby star's dyslexia 'cured'

The rugby great did specialised exercise to stimulate his cerebellum
Former Wales rugby captain Scott Quinnell has claimed a controversial treatment which includes exercises with bean bags has cured his dyslexia.
In a documentary to be shown on BBC Wales on Tuesday, the former Llanelli and British Lions No 8 is shown undertaking the Dore programme.

The 34-year-old decided to try the treatment because two of his three children are also dyslexic.

"I didn't want them to go through what I did as a child at school," he said.

Cameras followed Quinnell over the course of a year as he tackled the drug-free Dore programme.

I want them to be able to do whatever they want to do, rather than have to hide behind a persona

Scott Quinnell

The treatment aims to stimulate a part of the brain called the cerebellum through regular exercises with bean bags, bouncing on air-filled balls and tying knots in string.

The cerebellum is tangerine-sized part of the brain which co-ordinates movement and balance.

Quinnell decided to try the treatment, which has been both praised and criticised by academics and educational experts, because he read very slowly and had trouble spelling and writing.

"I've had fans throw autographs back in my face because I've spelt their name wrong," he says in the programme, called Quinnell's Last Test.

Before undertaking the treatment, which costs around £1,700, Quinnell had never been able to send an e-mail, use a computer or even write a note for school for any of his three children.

His wife Nicola began writing her husband's cheques just two weeks after she met him and had been filling in forms and writing his correspondence ever since.

SCOTT QUINNELL

Born: 20/08/72 in Morriston, Swansea
Height: 1.93m/6ft 4in
Honours: Wales Under-18, Wales Youth, Wales Under-19, Wales Under-21, Wales, Wales RL, Lions
Clubs: Llanelli (2 spells), Wigan RL, Richmond, Scarlets
Wales caps: 52 (11 tries)
Test debut: 1993 v Canada
Lions caps: 3 (1 try)

"I thought it was a bit strange to be doing something like that so early in our relationship," she said.

Two of Quinnell's children - Steele and Lucy - are also dyslexic and embarked on the programme with their father. They both saw improvements in their school work.

"I want them to be able to do whatever they want to do, rather than have to hide behind a persona," said their father.

BBC Wales producer Sally Davies said at first Quinnell's busy schedule as a rugby pundit and after-dinner speaker prevented him from regularly doing the exercises and he made little progress

"But as that classic Quinnell determination kicked in he realised his life was changing," said Ms Davies.

"For the first time Scott was sending e-mails, writing notes for his children and reading books much more quickly. And the confidence boost it gave him was amazing to witness."

Quinnell's Last Test is on BBC Two Wales on Tuesday 20 February, at 1930 GMT.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/6369479.stm
 
The opinion that dyslexia is largely a myth is an opinion which has been shared with me privately - very privately - by primary school teachers several times over the past 25 or 30 years.

These have included "the condition exists but is rare enough that the average teacher will likely never see a case" and "I've encountered one genuinely dyslexic child in nearly 30 years of teaching."
 
megadeth16 said:
im dyslexic so its not a myth or rare.

I never said that you don't, but how does the fact you have it make it either common OR rare?
 
Perhaps it's like autism and getting more common.

When I was an infant 35 years ago there was 1 fat kid 1 kid with excema and 1 kid with asthma the latter 2 being the same lad, that was in my year of about 105 kids.

Now my lads teachers have a special cupboard for inhalers and quite a few of their class mates have excema, my oldest has asthma, and at least a third of the kids, especially girls, are what in my day would have been regarded as fat.

Dyslexia may have an environmental trigger that is getting more common or having more effect as other factors come into play.
 
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