The Narcissism Thread

INT21

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#91
quartermaster,

.. because what they do certainly does not define anyone...

So how would you define who you are; without saying what your occupation is ?

..Ha, not in any aggressive way I assure you...just say 'did you buy that tie or your wife?'..

Actually, both.

But it depends upon the context. In the context of the subject of being married to yourself, or the more normal married couple.

The sentence as written is asking if you bought your tie, or bought your wife.

I would have asked 'did you buy that tie, or did your wife buy it ?'

'It is no longer a surprise when the conversation ends right there frankly'.

'What do you say after you have said Hello' ?

INT21
 
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INT21

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#93
Our posts crossed, please re read the last one I posted.

INT21
 

INT21

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#94
..
Nothing usually, I'm quite a good listener...

And a Psychoanalyst would say that if you don't make an attempt to catch the ball, people will stop throwing it to you.

INT21
 
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#95
..
Nothing usually, I'm quite a good listener...

And a Psychoanalyst would say that if you don't make an attempt to catch the ball, people will stop throwing it to you.

INT21
Yeah, well they have to make a living somehow.

So how would you define who you are; without saying what your occupation is ?
"Father, husband, angler, occasional gardener, web-designer and slayer of dragons. I earn some money by doing " . {$occupation};

:cool2:
 

Swifty

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#96
I've sometimes noticed narcissism to be a word used to label someone as being vain by someone who envies that other person's confidence .. so someone feeling a bit pleased with themselves one day is going to get a slap back down for being vain/ narcissistic by people surrounding them who are a bit fed up of the individual's showing off in any social interactions and so are just trying to drag that other person because that vain person 'needs bringing down a peg or two' for forgetting that they wouldn't have got there alone without the help of etc etc .. a true narcissist to me on the other hand is the Disney characters, or Elizabeth Bathory/King Canute types who are obsessed with their own reflection or how they are viewed .. aka/ people who take themselves too seriously.

fish hook.jpg
 
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#97
And a Psychoanalyst would say that if you don't make an attempt to catch the ball, people will stop throwing it to you.
I dare say they would. A lot of people are very happy to talk, almost as though the listeners' job is to, er, listen.
Do you have an opinion on people wearing a persona, like a mask?
 

GNC

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#99
I've sometimes noticed narcissism to be a word used to label someone as being vain by someone who envies that other person's confidence .. so someone feeling a bit pleased with themselves one day is going to get a slap back down for being vain/ narcissistic by people surrounding them who are a bit fed up of the individual's showing off in any social interactions and so are just trying to drag that other person because that vain person 'needs bringing down a peg or two' for forgetting that they wouldn't have got there alone without the help of etc etc .. a true narcissist to me on the other hand is the Disney characters, or Elizabeth Bathory/King Canute types who are obsessed with their own reflection or how they are viewed .. aka/ people who take themselves too seriously.
King Canute has been misrepresented: he tried to hold back the tide to prove he COULDN'T do it, so all the sycophants in his court would be forced to admit he was not all-powerful. Nobody likes a suck-ass, not even Kings.
 
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King Canute has been misrepresented: he tried to hold back the tide to prove he COULDN'T do it, so all the sycophants in his court would be forced to admit he was not all-powerful. Nobody likes a suck-ass, not even Kings.
Yep, exactly that.
 

INT21

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Going back to 'good listeners'.

A psychoanalyst has to be a good listener. He/she works by throwing the ball back to the subject.

If a subject were to say in a session ' how would you feel if she did that to you ?' the correct response would be 'well, how do you feel about it ?'.

Getting the person to answer his/her own questions.

So, quartermaster,
Do you have an opinion on people wearing a persona, like a mask?


INT21
 

escargot

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There was a radio programme about narcissism on R4 today -

The Ideas That Make Us

The Ideas That Make Us, Series 4 Episode 3 of 5

Narcissism

Bettany Hughes considers changing ideas about narcissism at a hairdresser's, on a therapist's couch, in mythology, in Victorian society and on our mobile phones.

This surprising and invigorating history of the most influential ideas in the story of civilisation, has been described as 'a double espresso shot of philosophy, history, science and the arts'. Award-winning historian and broadcaster Bettany Hughes begins each programme with the first, extant evidence of a single word-idea in Ancient Greek culture and travels both forwards and backwards in time, investigating how these ideas have been moulded by history, and how they've shaped us.

In this programme Bettany explores narcissism with experts from the humanities and sciences, people who see these big philosophical ideas playing out in their own lives including philosopher Angie Hobbs, Oscar Wilde's grandson Merlin Holland and psychotherapist Philippa Perry. Bettany reveals where these ideas were born and then explores the street markets, churches, offices and homes where they continue to morph and influence our daily lives.
 
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Getting the person to answer his/her own questions.
Jeez Int, put me on the couch I'll never get back up!
So, quartermaster,
Do you have an opinion on people wearing a persona, like a mask?
It surely underpins ego, and in the virtual world of social media, whereby it is common to isolate any dissenting view, thus re-inforcing one's particular 'group think', the persona can get boosted to the realms of fantasy, of which narcissism is one possibility. A symptom is the amount of self image photoshopping goes on in this media, let alone the bizarre selfie phenomenon.
 

INT21

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However, there is a school of thought that says if you can't love yourself then how can you love others.

And it could be said that we all project a personality that is often not how we really are. A kind of mask. Something to ensure we are not left 'out in the cold'.

'And I think it's going to be a long, long time
'til touchdown brings me round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at all.'

(Elton John)

INT21
 

Min Bannister

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A study reported today that shows that narcissistic children do better at school.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-44601198

Narcissists might be irritating attention seekers - but they are also annoyingly likely to be successful, according to researchers.

Even though their personality traits might seem negative, psychologists say their sense of superiority gives them a "mental toughness" not to give up.

An international team of researchers says narcissists tend to come out on top in education, work and romance.

Their "heightened sense of self-worth" gives them great self-confidence.
I am not convinced by the argument that narcissists are "mentally tough". More the complete opposite surely?

But apparently its now a good thing.

If we could abandon conventional social morality - and just focus on what is successful," he says, then narcissism can look like a very "positive" trait.
Ummm, lets not..
 

AlchoPwn

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A study reported today that shows that narcissistic children do better at school. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-44601198 I am not convinced by the argument that narcissists are "mentally tough". More the complete opposite surely? But apparently its now a good thing. Ummm, lets not..
I completely agree with you Min. Narcissists are psychologically brittle people who are often filled with great reservoirs of jealousy and self loathing. If the school environment is seeing success from narcissists, then we need to change the school environment, not encourage narcissism. There are few human behaviors more ultimately toxic than narcissism.
 

EnolaGaia

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From the cited article (emphasis added) ...

But Dr Kostas Papageorgiou, from Queen's University Belfast, says research shows that narcissists are often socially successful and undeterred by rejection and their craving for attention can make them "charming" and highly motivated.
The key here is the characterization of advantage solely with respect to 'social' success. This doesn't imply that narcissists are more adept than others at anything other than establishing and / or maintaining a social status, or perhaps the appearance thereof.
 

Min Bannister

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The key here is the characterization of advantage solely with respect to 'social' success. This doesn't imply that narcissists are more adept than others at anything other than establishing and / or maintaining a social status, or perhaps the appearance thereof.
But strangely it did.

Using a sample of more than 300 young people identified as narcissists in secondary school in Italy, the researchers found that they tended to score much better in exams than would have been expected from other tests of their intelligence.

Psychologists said that as well as traits such as egotism and the need to dominate, these narcissists had high levels of resilience and determination.

They were not cleverer, but were more confident and assertive and were able to overtake students who otherwise would have more ability.
I am not sure that makes sense to me but maybe they are secretly cramming in order to prove that they are the best.
 

EnolaGaia

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This is the first study I've seen that attempts to assess narcissism (or at least key components thereof) at two points in life.
Narcissism tracked from young adulthood to middle age

The belief that one is smarter, better looking, more successful and more deserving than others -- a personality trait known as narcissism -- tends to wane as a person matures, a new study confirms. But not for everyone, and not to the same extent.

The study, reported in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, finds that the magnitude of the decline in narcissism between young adulthood and middle age is related to the specific career and personal relationship choices a person makes.

The research tracked participants across two time points. The first occurred when they were 18 and just starting out as freshmen at the University of California, Berkeley. The second was 23 years later, when participants were 41 years old. Of the original 486 participants, 237 completed a new round of evaluations.

Participants at both time points answered questions from a survey designed to assess their narcissistic traits. For the follow-up study, researchers also asked about relationship and employment history, job satisfaction, and health and well-being.

"We looked at the different facets of narcissism in adults at age 18 and again at 41" ... "We focused on participants' vanity, the belief in their own leadership qualities and their tendency to feel entitled."

Each facet of narcissism was associated with several negative -- and in a few cases, positive -- outcomes for the individual, the researchers found. Those who had higher levels of vanity at age 18 were prone to unstable relationships and marriages, and were more likely to be divorced by middle age. But they also reported better health at age 41. In contrast, those who felt the most entitled as young adults reported more negative life events and tended to have lower well-being and life satisfaction at middle age.

"We originally hypothesized that the leadership facet of narcissism would increase," Roberts said. "In fairness to my co-authors, that hypothesis was mine, and it turns out I was wrong." ...

"We know from past research that another component of personality, assertiveness, tends to increase during this time of life," he said. "So, I thought it was reasonable to hypothesize a similar increase in the leadership facet. This either means the past research is wrong, or our read of the leadership component of narcissism is wrong -- it may actually be more negative than we thought. We have to figure this out in future research."

Vanity appeared to be most strongly linked to life events, the researchers found. For example, vanity declined more in those who entered into serious romantic relationships and those with children. But vanity declined significantly less in middle-aged adults who had experienced more negative life events than their peers.

"We also found that narcissistic young adults were more likely to end up in supervisory jobs 23 years later, suggesting that selfish, arrogant individuals are rewarded with more powerful organizational roles" ... "Further, individuals who supervised others decreased less in narcissism from young adulthood to middle age -- meaning that supervisory roles helped maintain prior levels of narcissism."

Despite the differences between individuals, most of the participants who responded to researchers' questions again at age 41 saw a decline in narcissism as they matured, the researchers found.

"Very few people, only 3% of participants, actually increased in overall narcissism between the ages of 18 and 41," Wetzel said. "And some remained just as narcissistic at age 41 as they had been when they were 18 years old." ...
FULL STORY: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190911113019.htm

PREPRINT Of The Published Paper: https://psyarxiv.com/mt32g/
 
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