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The Navajo Skinwalker & 'Skinwalker Ranch'

eburacum said:
Did they actually say that, or was it only told at second-hand by the showrunners?


And did he demonstrate this newly-wobbly scalp, or not?

Taylor has also appeared in TV shows about Ancient Aliens and Oak Island, so it is likely his bullshit filter is extremely compromised.
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If I'm remembering the right result to his injuries, he did have an Xray on it, and it showed up as a very worrying threat to his health at that time.
 
Why isn't the evidence peer reviewed? Or can't they just get some people in who have no interest in making shows or writing books about it to witness and investigate ?
 
Min Bannister said:
I have seen it quite a lot. In fact I am surprised we have any surviving US members.

Anyway, can we please stop talking about Travis Taylors pants and get back to the phenomena or lack of? :yuck:
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I was wrong about Travis Taylor, he got a lot of education. Still he looks like a "lightweighter". He's no Carl Sagan or Michio Kaku.
 
I might as well also add an observation about something that is clearly wrong with the way the team are proceeding. They are, contrary to what certain people claim, employing scientific methods to probe the ranch. Now science works very well with physical matter because that responds consistently to stimuli applied to it. But the response that the ranch gives varies dramatically. The ranch seems to anticipate and neutralise all efforts to access or study the anomaly a mile above the triangle area. Rockets have gone off course and one exploded on take off. Planes lose track of their position. Time and space are distorted. Equipment fails at the critical moment. One bizarre effect was aired almost without comment: on one occasion, during one of the digging operations, the team in the control centre suddenly began to hear their own comments repeated with a slight delay. It went on for several minutes. To me the implication was obvious: the intelligence behind the phenomena was demonstrating that it could monitor their discussions -- such as plans for future experiments. And that, in case people really don't see why official agencies in the US take a serious interest in the ranch, is because the ranch poses an intelligence threat. To me, that means that whatever experiment they run will be anticipated and any threat to the intelligence and its centre or focus above the ranch will be eliminated ASAP. I actually emailed Taylor to this effect, but he never replied. He is involved with intelligence work himself so he must realise this.
 
Robbrent said:
Why isn't the evidence peer reviewed? Or can't they just get some people in who have no interest in making shows or writing books about it to witness and investigate ?
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Peer review is something that is used in assessing articles submitted to scientific journals, it doesn't apply to work in progress. Most of the specialist experts employed in the series such as drone operators, tunnelling machine owners, astronomers, and local universities that are often used to analyse samples, have no interest in such matters. It is also worth asking, what journals would they submit reports to? There are relatively few journals that deal with "paranormal" subjects, I suppose the Journal of Scientific Exploration would be the obvious choice.
 
eburacum said:
Did they actually say that, or was it only told at second-hand by the showrunners?


And did he demonstrate this newly-wobbly scalp, or not?

Taylor has also appeared in TV shows about Ancient Aliens and Oak Island, so it is likely his bullshit filter is extremely compromised.
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In episode 1, the detached scalp was demonstrated by:
1. Second hand reporting of what the doctors said. No details.
2. A photo of the medical image (MRI?) which it was stated was of the detached scalp.

The scalp was not permanently removed from the skull. The dermis ? underneath was very swollen. After the digger got better, his scalp was still attached and one presumes still is.
 
Floyd1 said:
I am always puzzled as to where your perceived notion of this statement comes from.

With so many threads on here, it's quite possible that I have simply not seen the posts where this has happened of course, and I have no doubt that some do have prejudices, just like some will do against the Swedes, French, Israelis, Arabs, Chinese, Cromer-ites et al.

In any case, being such a large, very wealthy country with 'interests' and vast 'influence' around the world, not to mention the culture increasingly seeping in to many other countries, it's bound to come into some criticism from time to time.
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You must be from the UK. The prejudice I regularly read in this forum is comfortable, uninformed, and rude. It is part of your culture. One may call it insular. If these types of comments were directed at socially-sanctioned victims such as the poor, or racial or ethnic minorities, then the UK self-perceived champions of the underdogs would spring into action!

Briefly, I have read on this forum from UK posters: Everyone or almost every American owns guns, our entire banking system is antiquated (with photos!), we do not have health care, the US does not spend much on health care, poor people have worms because the government won't pay for sewage treatment, old people are left to die because nobody cares, poor or old people just die on the streets, shoddy construction in the UK is termed "cowboy," and on and fucking on. I have been a member here for less than three years, and reading this stuff is tedious and hurtful.

I don't go looking for anti-American posts, but they are made so regularly, I cannot avoid them. If you are not aware of them, then please take time to wonder why not.
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
The scalp was not permanently removed from the skull. The dermis ? underneath was very swollen. After the digger got better, his scalp was still attached and one presumes still is.
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Still sounds like it could be a bad case of sunburn. I notice that several people involved with this programme have complained of 'radiation burns' or other effects of radiation; sunburn is technically a kind of radiation burn, and can be serious, so they may have been telling the truth. Possibly misleading, though.
 
eburacum said:
Still sounds like it could be a bad case of sunburn. I notice that several people involved with this programme have complained of 'radiation burns' or other effects of radiation; sunburn is technically a kind of radiation burn, and can be serious, so they may have been telling the truth. Possibly misleading, though.
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No, they are talking primarily about high levels of microwaves. Taylor received such a dose and was quite ill. They got a team of radiation specialists in to survey the area where it happened, the infamous and very active Homestead 2, and there was no trace of any source. But others were similarly affected after that in the same spot. Homestead 2 was the site of many happenings including the bizarre temperature changes.
 
Carl Grove said:
Peer review is something that is used in assessing articles submitted to scientific journals, it doesn't apply to work in progress. Most of the specialist experts employed in the series such as drone operators, tunnelling machine owners, astronomers, and local universities that are often used to analyse samples, have no interest in such matters. It is also worth asking, what journals would they submit reports to? There are relatively few journals that deal with "paranormal" subjects, I suppose the Journal of Scientific Exploration would be the obvious choice.
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"Peer review is something that is used in assessing articles submitted to scientific journals, it doesn't apply to work in progress. "

This is not entirely true, at least in the US.

1. Experimental design, interpretation of results, and other aspects of research, are regularly, informally, reviewed by colleagues to help the researcher stay on track.
2. Peer review of an article submitted to publication may take place, errors found, and the article is sent back to the authors for correction. If the authors do not fix and resubmit, then outsiders will never know that any peer-review has taken place. Sometimes the biases of the reviewers result in very robust research articles not being published or not being published in a timely manner.
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
"Peer review is something that is used in assessing articles submitted to scientific journals, it doesn't apply to work in progress. "

This is not entirely true, at least in the US.

1. Experimental design, interpretation of results, and other aspects of research, are regularly, informally, reviewed by colleagues to help the researcher stay on track.
2. Peer review of an article submitted to publication may take place, errors found, and the article is sent back to the authors for correction. If the authors do not fix and resubmit, then outsiders will never know that any peer-review has taken place. Sometimes the biases of the reviewers result in very robust research articles not being published or not being published in a timely manner.
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Obviously the opportunity is there for an author to get the opinions of friends and colleagues, but it is strictly informal. The problem with the formal system is that in contentious areas the result of the review may well depend upon who is selected to review it. Some reviewers are not really familiar with the area under study, or worse, may indeed have views that conflict with those expressed in the article. Some are plain ignorant -- I recall a reviewer of one of my papers who questioned the analysis because I had transformed the data to achieve a normal distribution!
 
Carl Grove said:
No, they are talking primarily about high levels of microwaves. Taylor received such a dose and was quite ill.
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The problem with this is that the Trifield detectors they were using can only read up to 20mW/m2, a reading which could be caused by their own radio mikes in their pockets. This level of radiation is harmless.
metabunk-2020-04-13-10-12-45-jpg.40308

If the 'radiation specialists' couldn't find a source for the radiation, I'm beginning to suspect this is something like Havana Syndrome; a largely psychosomatic illness with a few actual symptoms (possibly including sunburn).
 
eburacum said:
The problem with this is that the Trifield detectors they were using can only read up to 20mW/m2, a reading which could be caused by their own radio mikes in their pockets. This level of radiation is harmless.
metabunk-2020-04-13-10-12-45-jpg.40308

If the 'radiation specialists' couldn't find a source for the radiation, I'm beginning to suspect this is something like Havana Syndrome; a largely psychosomatic illness with a few actual symptoms (possibly including sunburn).
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According to Taylor's dosimeter, he had received 120 mil rad/sec radiation, which he says was equivalent to 20,000 airport security scans. Several others were seriously ill when near that location, one had serious heart problems and had to go immediately to hospital. Arguably the most dangerous location on the ranch.
 
eburacum said:
Concerning the anomalies in the photogrammetry model; looking online, there are certain errors that can creep into photogrammetry that may have caused these strange features. When you make a model of a 3D landscape using scanned data, you need to set a 'bounding box' that limits the size of your model. However, sometimes data from beyond this bounding box becomes incorporated into the image - often as a cloud of dissociated pixels.
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I've done a fair amount of 3D rendering, but the techniques of photogrammetry are more complex. It seems the elimination of stray pixels is a routine part of making a 3D model from imagery. To make a reliable model you need something called 'point cloud confidence' which selects only the pixels you really want.

That allows you to go from this rough scan of a dinosaur bone
accuracy_01.jpg


to this, with high point cloud confidence, interpolated pixels and the elimination of stray pixels.
accuracy_03.jpg


I suspect that stray, low confidence pixels are the cause of these mysterious point clouds in the mesa photogram.

glitch.png
 
Carl Grove said:
According to Taylor's dosimeter, he had received 120 mil rad/sec radiation, which he says was equivalent to 20,000 airport security scans
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This could have been caused by placing his dosimeter too close to the antenna of his radio mike (or somebody else's). Radio mikes can put out 250mW/m2, but are usually limited to 20. An honest mistake, if that is what happened.
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
So I take it we may rely on you to flag these types of posts when they are noted by you or someone else.
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I too notice the prejudices, mostly regarding American people not so much as Canada as we are not a big country (and I suspect other countries see us as American). I try to make comment referring to my Canadian experience. I live close to the US, but we are different countries. I know some of the broad differences and will try to correct some of the more glaringly wrong comments, but certainly cannot explain exactly the whole American experience. Some days I can't even understand Canadian culture:).
 
Update: I have now watched episode 2. This does not appear to me to be thoughtful, structured research: no project plan, no complete review of prior data, no clearly defined authority (who is in charge of this research?). It is reactive. Dramatic, but confusing. Also, again they discuss the history of the skinwalker curse. This is bullshit.

I do not have a background in the required sciences to conduct research; however, with my background structuring large scale multi-disciplinary research, I am confident that I could have done a better job. That is how poor this series is.

My previous posting about episode 1 contains all the categories of warning flags that this is not serious research. I may watch more, but I find this painful.

If any anomalies exist, so far the series fail to demonstrate it. Failed mainly by NOT explaining why non-mysterious causes have been ruled out: lack of detail, etc. If the mesa they were on was the one directly north of the ranch, there are multiple buildings and inhabitants within 2 miles of the Skinwalker Ranch.

@Carl Grove, since you have watched all the episodes so far, could you share with us the name of the person actually in charge of this research at the Skinwalker Ranch?

Edited for clarity and spelling.
 
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Endlessly Amazed said:
Update: I have now watched episode 2. This does not appear to me to be thoughtful, structured research: no project plan, no complete review of prior data, no clearly defined authority (who is in charge of this research?)
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I watched the first two series and also found it very random and confusing so I am glad it is not just me. You will see that one of the characters is labelled as the Head or Lead Researcher when they all sit round the table but I can't remember his name and he rarely says anything or has opinions.:dunno:
 
eburacum said:
It seems the elimination of stray pixels is a routine part of making a 3D model from imagery. To make a reliable model you need something called 'point cloud confidence' which selects only the pixels you really want.
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'Tis true. I've done some of this too and I endorse what @eburacum is saying! :twothumbs:
 
Min Bannister said:
I watched the first two series and also found it very random and confusing so I am glad it is not just me. You will see that one of the characters is labelled as the Head or Lead Researcher when they all sit round the table but I can't remember his name and he rarely says anything or has opinions.:dunno:
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Yes. I noticed that, too. However, he does not seem to have decision-making authority. The decisions seem to be made by him, the owner, and the new guy - all of whom make decisions reactively, based on someone else objecting to a proposed course of action. This is not project planning nor science.

@Frideswide - a lack of ethics statement is common in US private research, because this aspect has already been defined or approved by the legal or other appropriate department. It does not mean that ethics are not considered.
 
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Endlessly Amazed said:
a lack of ethics statement is common in US private research, because this aspect has already been defined or approved by the legal or other appropriate department. It does not mean that ethics are not considered.
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interesting, thank you! In Scotland (?UK) anything that's big enough to go for grants or support tends to need one. Not all cases, obviously.
 
Frideswide said:
interesting, thank you! In Scotland (?UK) anything that's big enough to go for grants or support tends to need one. Not all cases, obviously.
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Most research in the US is done privately, and does not see the light of day in public publications. Anything from any research entity (education, non-Federal government, non-profits, corporations, etc.) of any kind which uses public grants, must go through Human Subjects, which is what I think you mean by ethics review. I imagine, but do not know, that private entities in the UK, such as profit-seeking corporations, do much research which is not publicly published. (publicly published - what an unsatisfactory alliteration...) The results of this research are proprietary and not to be shared at large.
 
Something that has played on my mind is the fact that such a big fuss has been made about phenomena under Bigelow's era, and yet he decided to sell the ranch. I've read/heard various explanations for why he decided to sell, but it just doesn't ring true to me. I find it hard to believe that a man like Bigelow would sell that ranch if it were a such a potential paranormal/scientific gold mine.
 
The reason why Bigelow sold the Skinwalker Ranch to Brandon Fugal and at what price paid for the property is shrouded in strange mystery.

Brandon “ trade marked “ anything to do with the Skinwalker Ranch like example Tee-Shirts with logos.

Brandon has a large collection of SciFi movie props from example the original the Terminator jacket, the original Superman suit.

Supposedly, personally Brandon believes were are dealing with unearthly entities and we are on the edge of something unexplainable.
 
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