The Nicola Bulley Disappearance (St Michael's On Wyre, Lancashire)

[Spookdaddy]

Agree but it was probably because it was still better than all the shit people were making up.

Totally. I think the police's hand has been forced on this. Seems to me that there were enough diplomatically phrased signals put out that sensitive personal issues might be at play - signals that on a one to one level I suspect most people would have the nous to react to with an 'ah, right - enough said', and then given events a little time to play out.

But unfortunately, whereas the human race contains many individuals who know how to use tact and discretion when reacting to such conditions, the human race en masse is a fucking village idiot who needs basic directions written on a big board in coloured crayon.

 

[ChrisBoardman]

I suggests her nearest and dearest were concerned about her.

An adult not classes as vunerable would have to be missing for longer before the police were called.

 

[Min Bannister]

But unfortunately, whereas the human race contains many individuals who know how to use tact and discretion when reacting to such conditions, the human race en masse is a fucking village idiot who needs basic directions written on a big board in coloured crayon.

Yes. And then they all get together on the internet and the next thing you know, those idiots are prowling in peoples gardens, breaking into properties and issuing threats to parish councillors. I despair for the human species.

 

[Mikefule]

I'm not surprised to find she has a "vulnerability". Around 1/4 of the adult population experiences depression or some related mental health issue, and alcohol related issues are also common. Also, we are becoming more aware of the challenges of menopause as people live longer, enjoy better physical health and perhaps expect more out of life than our ancestors accepted. (This last sentence expressed clumsily by a man whose only relevant experience is seeing his wife suffer badly during the menopause, but whose mother says, "In my day we just got on with it.")

However, I find suicide by drowning in a river an unconvincing explanation. I've spent many years of my life thinking suicidal thoughts. The fact that I have never tried it perhaps means I am not the best person to ask about a "preferred method". However, my feeling is that, confronted with the reality of cold water on the face, and struggling for air, the body's own instinct to survive would take over. It is not easy to drown yourself without weights or some other mechanism to overcome the body's reflexes.

For what it's worth, the women in my office — self appointed experts all — are loudly proclaiming that her husband/partner has "obviously" killed her. I personally consider this to be extremely unlikely. If I had to put money on the outcome, I'd put it on her leaving (either alone or with/to a lover?) intending to contact her family after a few days, and then she's seen the publicity storm and panicked. However, I do not know the river in question, and there must be a reason why the police remain of the opinion that she has most probably drowned.

 

[Victory]

I still think she was abducted.

{Just clearing a few thoughts from my head with this post:}

If she did go into the river, the thing troubling police is the lack of footprints, scrapes, marks in the mud on the river bank near the bench.

We now know she had an alcohol problem, and I guess had issues with depression linked to coping with menopause?
Perhaps a declining self-esteem?


Imagine she had been drinking the night before she went missing, and woke up hungover.
She skips breakfast, goes on the walk, has low blood sugar.
Not impossible that she feints and falls into the water.

Perhaps she feels nauseous.
Goes to the water edge to vomit.
Falls in, and is still retching, and takes in water?


Another idea, is that outside of work she is stressed.
But once in work, she is also depressed.
The Teams call triggers something, a feeling of being overwhelmed, and something worse.
There is past trauma, which she has buried, not told her husband about.
But the low self esteem has been bringing it to the surface over the previous year, and it's too much for her.

In a state of exasperation she walks out of her life.

Leaves the dog, leaves the phone.

Wanders off without a plan, just keeps walking over fields until something happens.
Abduction, or throws herself into another body of water or a ravine.

But, earlier in this thread I posted that I doubted suicide.
Because she had plans for the future.

But the husband mentioned she seemed very calm the morning of the disappearance.
It has been known for some suicidal people to be very depressed, then decide on suicide, and be happy and calm for a day before they die, because they have made their decision.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Others have mentioned this, but this case and that of the murdered headmistress and daughter really do show how "Perfect Family" photos on social media can hide so much of what happens behind closed doors.

Two well dressed healthy looking families.
Hiding something.

Social media dominates most peoples' lives, but I really think that at some point soon there will be a recoil effect...a natural backlash.

Not a campaign, but a chunk of people will just stop posting, as the negative effects of it damage people.
They'll keep their accounts for family contacts and networking, but massively reduce their digital footprint.

 

[brownmane]

There have been studies done on what happens to the human body upon immersion into freezing water. One researcher who I had watched on a tv program, but can’t remember which program or when, had participated in his own study. He discovered that the first few seconds you can drown from falling into freezing water because your first reaction is to gasp and then you panic. He stated that if you can control the panic and focus on keeping your breathing relatively calm, you greatly increase your chances of getting out of the water.

This link describes how your body reacts to immersion into cold water:
https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge/safety/look-after-yourself/cold-water-shock

And I just wanted to add to the “vulnerabilities“ discussion. Though we now know that her vulnerability is alcohol use, other vulnerabilities can be health related such as someone who is diabetic, or needs some other type of medication regularly to live.

 

[Mikefule]

Social media dominates most peoples' lives,

Sorry, that statement needs challenging. Social media gets disproportionate coverage in the mainstream media, but it only really dominates the lives of a small part of the population. Most people seldom or never use it.

There is a comparison with alcohol. Many people seldom or never drink, most people drink in moderation, a few (but too many) drink to excess. The ones who drink to excess get the media coverage.

I cannot recall Nicola Bulley's use of social media being a big part of this story. However, reaction on social media by a small but vociferous number of idiots has been an aspect.

Of course, forteana dot org is not social media; it is a forum for rational debate and wise prognostication...

 

[stu neville]

He discovered that the first few seconds you can drown from falling into freezing water because your first reaction is to gasp and then you panic

And this effect is exacerbated massively by alcohol (witness the number of drunk-drownings in rivers and harbours even in high summer). If this is what happened.

However, I find suicide by drowning in a river an unconvincing explanation.

That said, it's the very best way to fake suicide as it often precludes finding a body. John Stonehouse (very good dramatisation available to stream on ITVX right now), John Darwin (very good dramatisation available to stream on ITVX right now), Reggie Perrin... all well cemented into the public consciousness, albeit ignoring that all three got rumbled sooner or later. Nonetheless it's a good method for misdirection, although once again I'm not suggesting this is what has actually happened.

For what it's worth, the women in my office — self appointed experts all — are loudly proclaiming that her husband/partner has "obviously" killed her.

Yeah, I keep hearing "I don't trust that husband..." but this tends to be a refrain in any case such as this. You have to presume the Police have done their homework on this one already.

 

[escargot]

Yeah, I keep hearing "I don't trust that husband..." but this tends to be a refrain in any case such as this. You have to presume the Police have done their homework on this one already.

Sometimes the police will let their main suspect in a murder go free for a while to speak publicly, even at a police press conference, as was done with Mick and Mairead Philpott who killed their own children in a house fire. TV news viewers and crime buffs have seen this done many times. We have naturally learned to scrutinise interviewees for signs of guilt.

 

[stu neville]

...Mick and Mairead Philpott who killed their own children in a house fire.

True, and Karen Matthews. However given the scrutiny, if they had evidence they'd have presumably acted by now. But, as usual, we don't know what we don't know.

 

[Min Bannister]

Also, we are becoming more aware of the challenges of menopause as people live longer, enjoy better physical health and perhaps expect more out of life than our ancestors accepted. (This last sentence expressed clumsily by a man whose only relevant experience is seeing his wife suffer badly during the menopause, but whose mother says, "In my day we just got on with it.")

Nevertheless there is some real nasty shit that can happen to women in perimenopause that one can't "just get on with". We don't know if this is the case here and are not in a position to judge..

 

[escargot]

True, and Karen Matthews. However given the scrutiny, if they had evidence they'd have presumably acted by now. But, as usual, we don't know what we don't know.

Yup, there's always more to it.
The media's saturation coverage is a modern perp walk. We are more American every day.

 

[escargot]

Nevertheless there is some real nasty shit that can happen to women in perimenopause that one can't "just get on with". We don't know if this is the case here and are not in a position to judge..

As you'll know, in the past women would be expected to 'just get on with it' because talking about perimenopause, menopause and anything to do with menstruation was considered shameful. One hopes we're doing better now.

Here's some pure speculation -

If a woman were to start drinking as a response to problems of the perimenopause, I'd wonder if this was an older drink problem that had resurfaced because of stress.

Also, a woman in perimenopause might come into conflict with people around her if she felt they didn't understand how hard she was working to cope with it.

 

[maximus otter]

“…last night police told how the mum-of-two had “in the past suffered with some significant issues with alcohol“.

They added this was brought on by her “ongoing struggles with the menopause” and that these struggles had “resurfaced over recent months”.

The issues had led to a police car and health professionals responding to a concern for welfare at the family home in Inskip on January 10.

No one was arrested in relation to the incident, but it is being investigated.”

https://apple.news/ANfAmmmexSf2BCTkhkabaYg

I have emphasised some new info.

The wording is vague, but it might well refer to a previous suicide attempt, or to Bulley having made a clear indication of immediate suicidal ideation to a third party.

maximus otter

 

[Min Bannister]

As you'll know, in the past women would be expected to 'just get on with it' because talking about perimenopause, menopause and anything to do with menstruation was considered shameful. One hopes we're doing better now.

The ones who had vaguely tolerable symptoms would have. The rest would have drank or killed themselves. Just because it wasn't spoken of, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[escargot]

The ones who had vaguely tolerable symptoms would have. The rest would have drank or killed themselves. Just because it wasn't spoken of, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Exactly my point.
The same was said in the past about men returning from war: they might be suffering from 'shellshock' or PTSD (not the same thing) but the manly way to deal with it was to keep schtum.

 

[catseye]

I'm not surprised to find she has a "vulnerability". Around 1/4 of the adult population experiences depression or some related mental health issue, and alcohol related issues are also common. Also, we are becoming more aware of the challenges of menopause as people live longer, enjoy better physical health and perhaps expect more out of life than our ancestors accepted. (This last sentence expressed clumsily by a man whose only relevant experience is seeing his wife suffer badly during the menopause, but whose mother says, "In my day we just got on with it.")

Also, in the past, there were not so many women of menopausal age in the workforce. It's a lot easier to deal with perimenopause (sometimes extremely heavy periods, irregularly, with sudden flooding and no warning, mood swings etc) and actual menopause (hot flushes, loss of ability to concentrate - or even think) if one is at home. Visibility and tolerance of menopause in the workplace is increasing, but it is still tarnished with the 'women's problems' label.

Some of the symptoms of menopause - brain fog, insomnia etc - do not lend themselves to a high pressured workplace.

 

[Stormkhan]

Sorry, that statement needs challenging. Social media gets disproportionate coverage in the mainstream media, but it only really dominates the lives of a small part of the population. Most people seldom or never use it.

There is a comparison with alcohol. Many people seldom or never drink, most people drink in moderation, a few (but too many) drink to excess. The ones who drink to excess get the media coverage.

I cannot recall Nicola Bulley's use of social media being a big part of this story. However, reaction on social media by a small but vociferous number of idiots has been an aspect.

Of course, forteana dot org is not social media; it is a forum for rational debate and wise prognostication...

I agree with this.
Social Media is not a single entity that can be blamed for every issue; it's a tool or platform, not the actual user. And there's plenty of folks who don't use it and have no interest in what is declared on it.
That said, those who use it fall - in my opinion - into two camps: those who understand how it works and how you have to approach the information with suspicion, and those who use it to declare their own personal opinions and beliefs, thinking that because it's been broadcast is a vindication of those beliefs.
If anything, social media has given a voice to many who would've been gagged by nearby public condemnation - the anonymity the internet (vaguely) gives acts as a shield to bullies, idiots, and the malicious. When someone says "it gives a voice to the silent majority" they are wrong - it gives a voice to the vocal minority! It's the same mechanism as people are more likely to complain rather than compliment, so giving the impression that there's nothing good about it.
Column inches are filled by extremes, not the middle-ground and gives strength/justification to those extremes. And on social media, the most notable posters are those most vocal - regardless of quality of the content.

 

[Stormkhan]

Also, in the past, there were not so many women of menopausal age in the workforce. It's a lot easier to deal with perimenopause (sometimes extremely heavy periods, irregularly, with sudden flooding and no warning, mood swings etc) and actual menopause (hot flushes, loss of ability to concentrate - or even think) if one is at home. Visibility and tolerance of menopause in the workplace is increasing, but it is still tarnished with the 'women's problems' label.

Some of the symptoms of menopause - brain fog, insomnia etc - do not lend themselves to a high pressured workplace.

Recently, there's been some talk of encouraging workplaces to take such issues into account with leave etc. For instance, going through a divorce can impact on work quality.

 

[maximus otter]

The "mysterious red van" myth debunked by police, together with some others:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...stent-myths-Nicola-Bulleys-disappearance.html

maximus otter

 

[Trevp666]

I pointed out to a friend who was saying that 'it all seems a bit strange' that ...
"The strangest thing is that she disappeared, in broad daylight, leaving absolutely no clues to where, how or why?
No signs of a struggle or an accident.
Still logged in to her work team phone call.
And all in a very small time window of just a few minutes.
It's as though she just ceased to exist."

 

[catseye]

I pointed out to a friend who was saying that 'it all seems a bit strange' that ...
"The strangest thing is that she disappeared, in broad daylight, leaving absolutely no clues to where, how or why?
No signs of a struggle or an accident.
Still logged in to her work team phone call.
And all in a very small time window of just a few minutes.
It's as though she just ceased to exist."

I may sound a bit weird but - this is exactly what happens when someone accidentally falls in a body of water.

 

[catseye]

Recently, there's been some talk of encouraging workplaces to take such issues into account with leave etc. For instance, going through a divorce can impact on work quality.

Yes, there's 'some talk'. I can just see my workmates' faces if I insist on having to go and sit quietly out in the warehouse every twenty minutes because I'm feeling anxious or having a hot flush.

 

[Min Bannister]

Yes, there's 'some talk'. I can just see my workmates' faces if I insist on having to go and sit quietly out in the warehouse every twenty minutes because I'm feeling anxious or having a hot flush.

Heh, yes we women would just become even more of a liability to employers! Never mind it being hard to get a job when you are over 50, they'd be looking at us funny when we are much over 35.

 

[catseye]

Heh, yes we women would just become even more of a liability to employers! Never mind it being hard to get a job when you are over 50, they'd be looking at us funny when we are much over 35.

I should say that menopause for me has been pretty smooth sailing, but I suspect this is purely because I am single and can be as crabbit and moody as I like at home without affecting anyone.

 

[Kondoru]

My periods have gone down/ceased about 75%

Is that important?

 

[Yithian]

The Nicola Bulley Disappearance, please.​

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

I'm not surprised to find she has a "vulnerability". Around 1/4 of the adult population experiences depression or some related mental health issue, and alcohol related issues are also common. Also, we are becoming more aware of the challenges of menopause as people live longer, enjoy better physical health and perhaps expect more out of life than our ancestors accepted. (This last sentence expressed clumsily by a man whose only relevant experience is seeing his wife suffer badly during the menopause, but whose mother says, "In my day we just got on with it.")

However, I find suicide by drowning in a river an unconvincing explanation. I've spent many years of my life thinking suicidal thoughts. The fact that I have never tried it perhaps means I am not the best person to ask about a "preferred method". However, my feeling is that, confronted with the reality of cold water on the face, and struggling for air, the body's own instinct to survive would take over. It is not easy to drown yourself without weights or some other mechanism to overcome the body's reflexes.

For what it's worth, the women in my office — self appointed experts all — are loudly proclaiming that her husband/partner has "obviously" killed her. I personally consider this to be extremely unlikely. If I had to put money on the outcome, I'd put it on her leaving (either alone or with/to a lover?) intending to contact her family after a few days, and then she's seen the publicity storm and panicked. However, I do not know the river in question, and there must be a reason why the police remain of the opinion that she has most probably drowned.

The fact the partner was ruled out so quick makes me think they have her leaving on doorbell cam footage, not returning, then him leaving when he dashed off to try to find her - so he is provably at home when she goes missing, and she provably doesn't return to the house. which puts him in the clear. Hate the way armchair detectives have gone for him. The fact he seems to have been alibi'd out so rapidly suggests they have proof he didn't leave the house and she didn't re-enter it, in the time frame in question. I love my Ring door bell, me.

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

I should say that menopause for me has been pretty smooth sailing, but I suspect this is purely because I am single and can be as crabbit and moody as I like at home without affecting anyone.

Just to freak out the men here, mine consisted of one hot flush, once, that lasted five minutes. Nothing else. Not to downplay other women's experiences though, I think I had it easier than anyone I know and my experience was utterly atypical. (I have severe PCOS so everything else has been awful, my whole life - think I was overdue some kindness from the Lady Problems goddesses).

Am reluctant to slag off the coppers in this case as well as we don't know what they know. Wish people would leave the partner alone - his family will be able to see what is being said online and it will still be there in 20 years when their kids can see it, and they've been through enough. I do wonder about the mentality of people who go there for a photo op on Instagram or those creepy blokes who are ferretting around in the village, trying to solve what the police can't - what makes the armchair sleuths think they'll be the one to find her when other people can't?

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

“…last night police told how the mum-of-two had “in the past suffered with some significant issues with alcohol“.

They added this was brought on by her “ongoing struggles with the menopause” and that these struggles had “resurfaced over recent months”.

The issues had led to a police car and health professionals responding to a concern for welfare at the family home in Inskip on January 10.

No one was arrested in relation to the incident, but it is being investigated.”

https://apple.news/ANfAmmmexSf2BCTkhkabaYg

I have emphasised some new info.

The wording is vague, but it might well refer to a previous suicide attempt, or to Bulley having made a clear indication of immediate suicidal ideation to a third party.

maximus otter

Looks that way. (I speak from the experience of having alcoholic neighbours who frequently called the police out). Especially as the people concerned here don't look like the type to have the coppers on their doorstep every five minutes. Even if this hypothesis that she committed suicide turns out to be wrong, you can see why it's something that has to be addressed...