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The Older Need Less Sleep

GNC

GNC

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There was a question at the end of the most recent FT's Mythconceptions that asked whether it was true the older you got, the less sleep you needed. I didn't realise this was a potential urban myth, and it was strange to see it on that column.

So is it true? As I get older I find myself waking up earlier and earlier in the mornings, fair enough, but then again I remember my grandparents would nod off at every opportunity when they were elderly. Not sure what to think.
 
Hmmm.
I think the older you become, the less sleep you get.

That isn't the same thing as 'the older you become, the less sleep you need'.

I find myself being tired all the time, as I now never get a full night of sleep.
 
Yes, that sounds more likely, I'm beginning to join the "don't get enough sleep" group myself.
 
I can't sleep more than about five hours at a time now, but I do often sleep in the day too.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Hmmm.
I think the older you become, the less sleep you get.

That isn't the same thing as 'the older you become, the less sleep you need'.

I find myself being tired all the time, as I now never get a full night of sleep.
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that before the light bulb, people slept in four-hour spans. They went to bed at dark, woke in the middle of the night to do stuff, then went back to bed.

My husband and I tried this out once. We went to bed at 8 p.m., got up at midnight and did various work until 3 a.m., then went back to bed until 6 a.m. It worked extremely well: we both got enough sleep and felt far more rested than we did trying to sleep from 11 p.m. to 6 a.m. straight through.
 
SHAYBARSABE said:
Mythopoeika said:
Hmmm.
I think the older you become, the less sleep you get.

That isn't the same thing as 'the older you become, the less sleep you need'.

I find myself being tired all the time, as I now never get a full night of sleep.
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that before the light bulb, people slept in four-hour spans. They went to bed at dark, woke in the middle of the night to do stuff, then went back to bed.

My husband and I tried this out once. We went to bed at 8 p.m., got up at midnight and did various work until 3 a.m., then went back to bed until 6 a.m. It worked extremely well: we both got enough sleep and felt far more rested than we did trying to sleep from 11 p.m. to 6 a.m. straight through.
Click to expand...

I heard about that too, that there used to be two sleeping sessions, rather than one long one. My question about that though is this; if it is assumed to have happened before the advent of electric gas lighting then surely it would have been far too dark at 12 - 3 am to do anything, just like it was at 8pm. And what happened in the summer when it doesn't get dark until 9.30 and is light again at 4?
 
One version that I've read mentions that certain activities were conducted in the early hours that you don't need the light on for. ;)
 
I only sleep five hours a night or so and I'm fine.....maybe I won't sleep at all when I'm older?
 
escargot1 said:
One version that I've read mentions that certain activities were conducted in the early hours that you don't need the light on for. ;)
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You can do that with the light on? Madness.
 
escargot1 said:
One version that I've read mentions that certain activities were conducted in the early hours that you don't need the light on for. ;)
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I've found those activities best conducted around 8 in the morning. Wonderful what zest a night's sleep bestows. Lends the day a certain promise. 8)
 
escargot1 said:
One version that I've read mentions that certain activities were conducted in the early hours that you don't need the light on for. ;)
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Yes, the informtion I found mentioned quite a bit of neighbor visiting neighbor.
 
I'm currently 62, and I've paid attention to my sleep habits for about 50 years now.

(I loves my sleep ... :twisted: )

Left to sleep without an alarm to wake me ...

Up through my early 20's I would naturally sleep for 5 or 6 cycles of circa 1.5 hours each. Once I laid down it would be 7.5 - 9 hours before I'd wake of my own accord.

One summer when I was 19 I worked as a milkman (starting at around 0300 every day). This played havoc with maintaining my evening activities, and I ended up having to sleep during the day to make up the difference. The total sleep amount that seemed to be required to feel 'fresh' was still 5 cycles (occasionally I'd go 6 cycles ...) in a 24-hour period.

Through my 20's and 30's (on a regular daily schedule most of those years) 5 cycles would usually 'top me up' and leave me feeling fresh. This pattern persisted through most of my 40's.

NOTE: Effective at age 48 I became a telecommuter working from home, so the periods after that point involved no fixed daily schedule and no daily alarms. In other words, from that point onward I've been free to go to bed and get up when I "feel like it" most days.

As I moved into my 50's something changed. It seemed I couldn't sleep longer than 4 cycles (6 hours) at a stretch. (This was before I ever became subject to the elder's nighttime calls to the bathroom.) This pattern became so regular that I didn't have to set an alarm clock - I could go to bed tired and know I'd wake up after 6 hours (plus or minus 15 minutes). I felt fresh after 4 cycles, and needed no additional naps to catch up.

As I approached 60, there was another change. I still couldn't sleep longer than 4 cycles (6 hours) at a stretch, but it didn't feel like enough sleep. I felt fresh enough in the morning, but would get tired later in the day. I got in the habit of taking afternoon naps to bring my daily total up to 5 or even 6 cycles. I also noticed that the first cycle in a typical sleep session sometimes extended out to circa 2 hours instead of the earlier 1.5 hours. This pattern has been in effect for at least 3 - 4 years now.

The most recent shift has been that I'm now able to continuously sleep for 5 cycles, and sometimes 6, on occasion. This is the first time in at least a decade that I've been able to do that naturally. My total requirement (to stay fresh) still seems steady at 5 - 6 cycles per day, regardless of whether I get it all at once or in a 4+2 configuration.

NOTE: I slept on the same 'bed' (a sofa / daybed) from circa age 40 through age 61.5 (when it was lost in a fire), so the last 20 years' shifts haven't been attributable to changes in bedding or sleeping arrangements.
 
Psychological fact ( I used to teach this as part of the A level syllabus on circadian rhythms ), older people don't need less sleep, they are just less good at sleeping for sustained periods of time and the quality of our sleep decreases with age. Particularly slow wave sleep seems to be affected in older people. One reason might be that as we age so do the sleep centres in our brains becoming less efficient.
 
Loquaciousness said:
Psychological fact ( I used to teach this as part of the A level syllabus on circadian rhythms ), older people don't need less sleep, they are just less good at sleeping for sustained periods of time and the quality of our sleep decreases with age. Particularly slow wave sleep seems to be affected in older people. One reason might be that as we age so do the sleep centres in our brains becoming less efficient.
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Thanks for the info. That makes more sense, I'm labouring under a cold at the moment which is making my sleep even less consistent, so I'm exhausted, but can't nod off.
 
Glad to be of service. Hope your cold has improved and you are sleeping a bit better.
 
https://www.sleepfoundation.org/aging-and-sleep

Essentially apart from the usual good exercise and diet. It's important to get good sunlight exposure in the late afternoon, this pushes against the natural aging process that forces people to sleep earlier and get up earlier, (regressed circadian rhythm).

A short nap during the day is ok but don't overdo it.
 
It's since I read this thread:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/biphasic-polyphasic-sleep.63074/

that I seem to sleep until around 02:00, then wake abruptly, feeling quite alert.
I end up trying to count "biphasic sheep", listening to BBC Radio, or even reading my FT for perhaps 45 minutes to an hour, until I feel my eyelids drooping once more. I then sleep through to my usual waking time around 07:00, ready to start working from home by 08:00.
So, at around 6 to 7 hours sleep per night overall, I would say that is perhaps 15% less than in my younger years.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
It's since I read this thread:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/biphasic-polyphasic-sleep.63074/

that I seem to sleep until around 02:00, then wake abruptly, feeling quite alert.
I end up trying to count "biphasic sheep", listening to BBC Radio, or even reading my FT for perhaps 45 minutes to an hour, until I feel my eyelids drooping once more. I then sleep through to my usual waking time around 07:00, ready to start working from home by 08:00.
So, at around 6 to 7 hours sleep per night overall, I would say that is perhaps 15% less than in my younger years.
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Adults still should be aiming for 8 hours.
 
As you become older, you become drier and more brittle. The friction of movement can become, like sticks rubbed together, a real fire hazard. So old people get up at about half five in the morning when it is really cool and bristle about making tea and generally fuck about dropping stuff and rattle around the teaspoon drawer so it can be heard down the whole fucking street when they’re at their least combustible. When it warms up, they’re the opposite of snakes in that they mostly snooze all day.
 
Imn my early 40's i used to work 12-15 hour shift 6-7 days a week, i would go straight from work to the pub and drink til closing, averaging 4 hrs sleep a night, on a rare day off i would just sleep for 12 hours straight, i believe in sleep banking (it is a thing, honest look it up), i did this for 4 years and it was fine. My mom says she doesnt sleep much, however everytime i visit, she will be having a conversation/watching tv one minute then id look around and she'll be fast asleep, my dads the same, he can sleep for 3 hours during the day, so i think its not that 'old folks' sleep less, its just they spend less rime in their beds asleep, they realy should be treated like babies, everyone remembers someone saying 'dont let baby sleep now or they wont sleep tonight' right?
 
Souleater said:
Imn my early 40's i used to work 12-15 hour shift 6-7 days a week, i would go straight from work to the pub and drink til closing, averaging 4 hrs sleep a night, on a rare day off i would just sleep for 12 hours straight, i believe in sleep banking (it is a thing, honest look it up), i did this for 4 years and it was fine. My mom says she doesnt sleep much, however everytime i visit, she will be having a conversation/watching tv one minute then id look around and she'll be fast asleep, my dads the same, he can sleep for 3 hours during the day, so i think its not that 'old folks' sleep less, its just they spend less rime in their beds asleep, they realy should be treated like babies, everyone remembers someone saying 'dont let baby sleep now or they wont sleep tonight' right?
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I think more recent thinking is that "sleep banking" isn't as beneficial as people thought it was about 10 years ago. Using sleep banking still results in weight gain.

You are right about old people, they still need around 8 hours and need to avoid long naps.
 
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Naughty_Felid said:
I think more recent thinking is that "sleep banking" isn't as beneficial as people thought it was about 10 years ago. Using sleep banking still results in weight gain.

You are right about old people, they still need around 8 hours and need to avoid long naps.
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Luckily working 12-15 hours a day on a building site meant i didnt have to worry about weight gain, i was actually down to a 30" waist for the first time since my late teens :p
 
Loquaciousness said:
Psychological fact ( I used to teach this as part of the A level syllabus on circadian rhythms ), older people don't need less sleep, they are just less good at sleeping for sustained periods of time and the quality of our sleep decreases with age. Particularly slow wave sleep seems to be affected in older people. One reason might be that as we age so do the sleep centres in our brains becoming less efficient.
Click to expand...
Definitely makes sense.
 
By the time I stuff down Diabetic, Blood Pressure, Cholesterol, Prostrate, Diuretics, and Arthritis medicines, I have trouble waking up in the morning.
 
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charliebrown said:
By the time I stuff down Diabetic, Blood Pressure, Cholesterol, Prostrate, Diuretics, and Arthritis medicines, I have trouble waking up in the morning.
Click to expand...
When I was taking diuretics I didn't dare take them later in the day if I wanted a good night's sleep.
 
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