The Jeffrey Epstein & Ghislaine Maxwell Scandal

[Lb8535]

I thank that Prince Andrew certainly was whisked off to face the music, just not music that was available to the media.

In the US judges can and do issue gag orders if necessary, the penalties for any court officials (like police) are severe for providing information to newspapers. In all honesty I have never seen anything over here like the daily excesses of the Brit tabloids, even in the Enquirer.

 

[escargot]

I thank that Prince Andrew certainly was whisked off to face the music, just not music that was available to the media.

maybe

Are you thinking along the lines of a severe telling-off from 'er Maj? That's about all he's had so far.

Techy reckons the conspiracists' angle is that if Randy Andy shows his face again he'll get a Princess Di job and he knows it.

 

[Lb8535]

Are you thinking along the lines of a severe telling-off from 'er Maj? That's about all he's had so far.

Techy reckons the conspiracists' angle is that if Randy Andy shows his face again he'll get a Princess Di job and he knows it.

Yeah, something like that. For all the jokes, would you really want to be called in to face her, no doubt flanked by your two most exalted relations who never liked you to start with? I think that Princess Di's death was caused by her own very poor judgment, but it did serve to remind the royal family that in the old days what had to be done could be done.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Techy reckons the conspiracists' angle is that if Randy Andy shows his face again he'll get a Princess Di job and he knows it.

That'd only happen if he took a trip to France.

 

[escargot]

I wonder who'll get it first?

Watching the TV series about Maxwell, I noticed that both her 'former friends' and the original victims (the ones Epstein admitted to soliciting) are openly speculating about the danger she is in, referring to 'what happened to Jeffrey'.

They believe the conspiracies! I feel that if anyone has an idea, they do.

 

[Lb8535]

That'd only happen if he took a trip to France.

Yes always better to get it done off British soil.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Yes always better to get it done off British soil.

France seems to be the destination of preference for high profile assassinations, closely followed by the UK.

 

[escargot]

That'd only happen if he took a trip to France.

I dunno, there are some narrow winding lanes around Windsor.

What about an unfortunate shooting accident? A fall from a hot air balloon? A darkroom explosion? Poison?



'old on, is this Kind Hearts and Coronets?

 

[Nosmo King]

Yes always better to get it done off British soil.

Plausible deniability

 

[escargot]

Plausible deniability

Frustratingly, I don't believe HRH is going anywhere he'd need to wear shoes for until he's in absolutely no danger, which is approximately never.
No more safaris or skiing for now, Sir!

 

[escargot]

To my immense delight, the case has been filed -
(BBC News link)

Virginia Giuffre: Prince Andrew accuser files civil case in US

A US woman who alleges she was brought to the UK aged 17 to have sex with the Duke of York has filed a civil case in New York claiming he abused her.
Virginia Giuffre, who was an accuser of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, claims she was sexually assaulted by Prince Andrew in London and New York.
A spokeswoman for Prince Andrew, 61, said there was "no comment" on the case, which was filed under New York's Child Victims Act.
He has consistently denied the claims.
The case alleges the prince sexually abused Ms Giuffre - then known as Virginia Roberts - at the London home of Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell, and at Epstein's homes in Manhattan and Little St James in the US Virgin Islands.
It claims the prince engaged in sexual acts without her consent, knowing how old she was and "that she was a sex-trafficking victim".

It's not a criminal case so HRH won't be arrested or extradited, and he is unlikely to appear in an American court personally because the FBI are still interested in talking to him.

Apart from going on to court, the way it will progress is as follows, according to a lawyer from the company that represented nine of Epstein's victims -

The alternatives are that it is settled beforehand, it is struck out by a judge, or the complainant ceases the action.
Melissa Murray, professor of law at New York University, said Prince Andrew "could be on the hook for significant money damages".

- Settling would be a way out for HRH but possibly too embarrassing.
- I can't see a judge refusing the case because there is evidence for it, such as Epstein's previous admission to felony prostitution charges, and of course the photo taken by Epstein himself of HRH with Ms Guiffre.
- Ms Guiffre won't be ceasing anything!

So what's next?

I am reminded of the words of Maria Farmer, one of the original Epstein 'felony prostitution' survivors -

These are the wealthiest people in the world and they have the most power.

There’s only one way they don’t get away with it and that’s if they’re killed.

So either she gets away with everything or she gets killed.

While she meant Ghislaine Maxwell, she was also referring to Epstein himself. She and the other survivors have no doubt that Epstein was 'killed', i.e. murdered to shut him up.

This could equally apply to HRH.
We are back to Kind Hearts and Coronets. Shall we open a book on it?

 

[Cochise]

I am reminded of the words of Maria Farmer, one of the original Epstein 'felony prostitution' survivors -

"These are the wealthiest people in the world and they have the most power.

There’s only one way they don’t get away with it and that’s if they’re killed."

This is of course true in a far wider context than sex. Ghislane's father's business practices, for example. I won't quote more recent / still living examples. Because they'd shut us down.

 

[Lb8535]

This is of course true in a far wider context than sex. Ghislane's father's business practices, for example. I won't quote more recent / still living examples. Because they'd shut us down.

Heavens, go right ahead. We're at the end of a really really long list.

 

[escargot]

This is of course true in a far wider context than sex. Ghislane's father's business practices, for example. I won't quote more recent / still living examples. Because they'd shut us down.

Yup. We can quote lots of old sayings though -

You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
A fish rots from the head down.
The leopard cannot change its spots.
Boys will be boys.
The love of money is the root of all evil.
A fool and his money are soon parted.

Could go on forever, but then there's Accidents happen!

 

[Lb8535]

Yup. We can quote lots of old sayings though -

You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
A fish rots from the head down.
The leopard cannot change its spots.
Boys will be boys.
The love of money is the root of all evil.
A fool and his money are soon parted.

Could go on forever, but then there's Accidents happen!

And my favorite, Follow the Money.

 

[Nosmo King]

Yup. We can quote lots of old sayings though -

You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
A fish rots from the head down.
The leopard cannot change its spots.
Boys will be boys.
The love of money is the root of all evil.
A fool and his money are soon parted.

Could go on forever, but then there's Accidents happen!

Also,

 

[escargot]

Here's a Guardian piece by Marina Hyde -

Of course Prince Andrew isn’t sweating over this lawsuit – he can’t

This section sets the tone:

His infamous Newsnight interview revealed him to be a man of such baroque stupidity that in some ways its most sensational revelation was that Prince Edward must have been the clever one.

 

[Kondoru]

Oh, justice wont be done...

 

[escargot]

Hadn't heard the Hunting Ghislaine podcast until now.



When Epstein was arrested a safe was found containing recordings labelled 'X' (or 'Y' or 'Z' etc, a prominent male) with 'A' (or 'B' or 'C', female teenager). Like blackmail material.
There were also fake passports.

I'd heard about this before but had thought the most incriminating material wasn't recovered. The safe contents sound like some very fine evidence.

On Epstein's first arrest, after which he wangled that mysterious plea deal, his computers had already been whisked away so couldn't be examined. This time the operation was quiet enough for him not to be forewarned.

He was arrested on his plane soon after it touched down in New Jersey from France. If he'd got wind he'd have stayed in Europe or flown elsewhere and still be on the run. Top law enforcement work there.

All good reading and listening.

 

[hunck]

Hadn't heard the Hunting Ghislaine podcast until now.



When Epstein was arrested a safe was found containing recordings labelled 'X' (or 'Y' or 'Z' etc, a prominent male) with 'A' (or 'B' or 'C', female teenager). Like blackmail material.
There were also fake passports.

I'd heard about this before but had thought the most incriminating material wasn't recovered. The safe contents sound like some very fine evidence.

On Epstein's first arrest, after which he wangled that mysterious plea deal, his computers had already been whisked away so couldn't be examined. This time the operation was quiet enough for him not to be forewarned.

He was arrested on his plane soon after it touched down in New Jersey from France. If he'd got wind he'd have stayed in Europe or flown elsewhere and still be on the run. Top law enforcement work there.

All good reading and listening.

I remember reading that although CDs/flash drives were found with these recordings in his New York house, they’ve since vanished. Dunno how much truth there is in this. Actual dated video of person X with girl A would be fairly cast iron proof.

Also it was reported a while ago that Maxwell had taken copies of these videos..

 

[escargot]

I remember reading that although CDs/flash drives were found with these recordings in his New York house, they’ve since vanished. Dunno how much truth there is in this. Actual dated video of person X with girl A would be fairly cast iron proof.

Also it was reported a while ago that Maxwell had taken copies of these videos..

I've heard that too. Rumours are swirling around!

One thing is for sure: there are people who very much want to know where those items are and who is likely to see them.
Maxwell already knows this and will be calculating which course of action to take.

Like, is just knowing where they are more likely or less likely to get her killed?
Is she more likely or less likely to get killed if she admits to knowing there they are?
Would offering to show them to Law Enforcement make her more likely or less likely to get killed?
If she accepts a deal, confesses and offers the items as evidence, giving her a shorter sentence, is she then more likely or less likely to get killed in prison?

You will be able to discern a theme here.

My money is on the evidence not coming to light in the near future because of Ms Maxwell's sudden 'indisposition', or in the vernacular of her current residence 'shanking'.

It's not so urgent for HRH. He will be able to put his case off for years.
I doubt we'll ever see him in court. Maybe he will agree to settle once his mother carks it.

Yes, I'm enjoying all this, why do you ask?

 

[Xanatic*]

Even if this was filed in a UK court, would Prince Andrew be open to prosecution? Don't the royal family have some sort of diplomatic immunity?

 

[escargot]

Even if this was filed in a UK court, would Prince Andrew be open to prosecution? Don't the royal family have some sort of diplomatic immunity?

The Queen has 'Sovereign Immunity' and is above the law. She cannot be arrested/prosecuted or sued because the courts technically belong to her.

The rest of the royals are subject to the law just as anyone else is, although they cannot be arrested in the Queen's presence or in any Palace buildings or property.

Royals have been prosecuted in recent years. Princess Anne pleaded guilty to owning a dangerous dog and she and her daughter have been fined for speeding.

The FBI want to interview Prince Andrew over his friendship with Epstein. He says he will co-operate but has made no effort to do so.
He will not be extradited as he has not been formally accused of a criminal offence abroad, though that looks about to change, and cannot be ordered to be interviewed by the FBI while he is in Britain.

He could talk to them voluntarily in Britain, in Buckingham Palace itself with the corgis as witnesses, but he's not having any of THAT.
Should he want to, Mummy will have put her foot down.

One imagines the Queen could persuade him talk to them but there's too much at stake. He would incriminate himself and goodness knows who else.

Even if there were an international warrant out for Andrew, under British law he can evade arrest by staying in a palace as mentioned above.
The FBI would have to camp outside Balmoral and hope he gets bored and pops out. He is stupid enough to do that.

As it stands, he is showing no inclination to fight to clear his name and is probably hoping it all blows over.
The civil case could take years to come to court.

Ms Guiffre may have to be content with knowing that Andrew will be sweating for all that time, especially when the Maxwell trial/mysterious Maxwell death is in the news.

The FBI and the royal family are aware of all this and the upshot, I reckon, is that he will sit it out until 'er Maj kicks the bucket and all hell breaks loose.

This is better than any novel or TV series.

 

[Nosmo King]

The Queen has 'Sovereign Immunity' and is above the law. She cannot be arrested/prosecuted or sued because the courts technically belong to her.

The rest of the royals are subject to the law just as anyone else is, although they cannot be arrested in the Queen's presence or in any Palace buildings or property.

Royals have been prosecuted in recent years. Princess Anne pleaded guilty to owning a dangerous dog and she and her daughter have been fined for speeding.

The FBI want to interview Prince Andrew over his friendship with Epstein. He says he will co-operate but has made no effort to do so.
He will not be extradited as he has not been formally accused of a criminal offence abroad, though that looks about to change, and cannot be ordered to be interviewed by the FBI while he is in Britain.

He could talk to them voluntarily in Britain, in Buckingham Palace itself with the corgis as witnesses, but he's not having any of THAT.
Should he want to, Mummy will have put her foot down.

One imagines the Queen could persuade him talk to them but there's too much at stake. He would incriminate himself and goodness knows who else.

Even if there were an international warrant out for Andrew, under British law he can evade arrest by staying in a palace as mentioned above.
The FBI would have to camp outside Balmoral and hope he gets bored and pops out. He is stupid enough to do that.

As it stands, he is showing no inclination to fight to clear his name and is probably hoping it all blows over.
The civil case could take years to come to court.

Ms Guiffre may have to be content with knowing that Andrew will be sweating for all that time, especially when the Maxwell trial/mysterious Maxwell death is in the news.

The FBI and the royal family are aware of all this and the upshot, I reckon, is that he will sit it out until 'er Maj kicks the bucket and all hell breaks loose.

This is better than any novel or TV series.

The FBI just have to stake out his favourite haunt, 'Pizza Express' in Windsor.

 

[maximus otter]

The Queen has 'Sovereign Immunity' and is above the law. She cannot be arrested/prosecuted or sued because the courts technically belong to her.

The rest of the royals are subject to the law just as anyone else is, although they cannot be arrested in the Queen's presence or in any Palace buildings or property.

Royals have been prosecuted in recent years. Princess Anne pleaded guilty to owning a dangerous dog and she and her daughter have been fined for speeding.

The FBI want to interview Prince Andrew over his friendship with Epstein. He says he will co-operate but has made no effort to do so.
He will not be extradited as he has not been formally accused of a criminal offence abroad, though that looks about to change, and cannot be ordered to be interviewed by the FBI while he is in Britain.

He could talk to them voluntarily in Britain, in Buckingham Palace itself with the corgis as witnesses, but he's not having any of THAT.
Should he want to, Mummy will have put her foot down.

One imagines the Queen could persuade him talk to them but there's too much at stake. He would incriminate himself and goodness knows who else.

Even if there were an international warrant out for Andrew, under British law he can evade arrest by staying in a palace as mentioned above.
The FBI would have to camp outside Balmoral and hope he gets bored and pops out. He is stupid enough to do that.

As it stands, he is showing no inclination to fight to clear his name and is probably hoping it all blows over.
The civil case could take years to come to court.

Ms Guiffre may have to be content with knowing that Andrew will be sweating for all that time, especially when the Maxwell trial/mysterious Maxwell death is in the news.

The FBI and the royal family are aware of all this and the upshot, I reckon, is that he will sit it out until 'er Maj kicks the bucket and all hell breaks loose.

This is better than any novel or TV series.

Republican schadenfreude aside, Andrew is doing what any sensible, intelligent and well-advised person should do under these circumstances: Maintain silence. He has nothing to prove.

Even if this comes to trial - and l’ll bet that it won’t - Andrew’s legal team would tear Giuffre limb from limb:

Zero physical evidence?

Fourteen years to make an allegation?

Travelled round the world for a couple of years with the man who allegedly turned her into a sex slave and pimped her out?

Wants loads of money?

It wouldn’t require Andrew’s teams of QCs to demolish this house of cards, anyone who’s watched a couple of episodes of Rumpole of the Bailey could do the job.

All that would happen then would be that the Mirror-reading tricoteuses, knitting around the guillotine, would smugly declare it to be a “conspiracy”, and that “there’s no smoke without fire.”

maximus otter

 

[escargot]

The FBI just have to stake out his favourite haunt, 'Pizza Express' in Windsor.

He could pay towards the rent and sleep there one night, so it becomes a symbolic royal palace.
Then as he's a helicopter pilot he could have a big H painted on the roof and fly there direct from wherever he's currently cowering, abseil down the outside wall and climb in through a ground floor window to meet his alibi daughter and enjoy a Hawaiian Special*.

*Can I say Hawaiian Special? That's not a type of massage is it?

 

[Kondoru]

Dont they do pizza delivery these days?

 

[escargot]

Here's a Channel 4 (UK mainstream TV news programme) special on Prince Andrew and Epstein/Maxwell.

Long story short: the Met (London city police) declined to investigate allegations of trafficking and sex abuse against Epstein and Maxwell.
The reason, it is suggested, was that as the couple had been guests of HRH for whose the Met are responsible, there was a conflict of interest.

A witness is quoted as saying Maxwell wanted to approach an unknown young woman because (I paraphrase) 'Jeffrey will need a blow job and if she doesn't do it, I'll have to.'
(So there's the whole conspiracy in a nutshell; Maxwell's job was providing for Epstein's sexual needs.)

The upcoming New York case is also mentioned. Channel 4 are WELL clued-up.
I love the elegant symbolism of the decaying mansion with the superimposed portraits.

Revealed: Epstein and Maxwell implicated in multiple claims of abuse in UK over a decade

An investigation by this programme into the notorious sex abuser Jeffrey Epstein and his alleged partner Ghislaine Maxwell has found mulitple claims that the pair targeted, groomed, trafficked and sexually abused at least half a dozen young women in the UK over a ten-year period.

The allegations have never been fully investigated by the Met, despite repeated complaints to the force. The Metropolitan Commissioner has previously insisted that any decision not to investigate had nothing to do with Prince Andrew, but that it was a matter for US authorities, where Ghislaine Maxwell is facing trial.

But tonight senior legal figures in the UK who have reviewed our evidence from this country are calling for a full criminal investigation into what they call "serious allegations". A warning: this report contains references to sexual abuse.

 

[Lb8535]

Here's a Channel 4 (UK mainstream TV news programme) special on Prince Andrew and Epstein/Maxwell.

Long story short: the Met (London city police) declined to investigate allegations of trafficking and sex abuse against Epstein and Maxwell.
The reason, it is suggested, was that as the couple had been guests of HRH for whose the Met are responsible, there was a conflict of interest.

A witness is quoted as saying Maxwell wanted to approach an unknown young woman because (I paraphrase) 'Jeffrey will need a blow job and if she doesn't do it, I'll have to.'
(So there's the whole conspiracy in a nutshell; Maxwell's job was providing for Epstein's sexual needs.)

The upcoming New York case is also mentioned. Channel 4 are WELL clued-up.
I love the elegant symbolism of the decaying mansion with the superimposed portraits.

Revealed: Epstein and Maxwell implicated in multiple claims of abuse in UK over a decade

Y'know there are people who do this professionally. I understand that part of his criminal illness was making believe the backstory of the girl, but people do that professionally too and he wasn't chintzy about payment. Would have been smarter for Maxwell to have an arrangement with a professional agency. I mean, they pretend to be schoolgirls and nurses and maids and whatever (including virgins) all the time.

 

[escargot]

Y'know there are people who do this professionally. I understand that part of his criminal illness was making believe the backstory of the girl, but people do that professionally too and he wasn't chintzy about payment. Would have been smarter for Maxwell to have an arrangement with a professional agency. I mean, they pretend to be schoolgirls and nurses and maids and whatever (including virgins) all the time.

He wanted actual young girls.

Part of the fun for him might have been the sense of corrupting them. This would also compromise them and make them less likely to fight back.

Having Maxwell arrange it kept it between him, her and the victims. This worked well for years.