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Maxwell's trial starts this time next week, as I heard on t'banger radio while stuck behind a bin lorry this morning.

Being a patient driver and all-round saint I'm never upset when being held up by people working hard in the road.

Today I positively enjoyed my little sojourn, listening to the news; especially the bit with Ian Maxwell whining about what a rough time his totally innocent sister is having on remand.
Me'eart bleeds, it does.

The bin men must've wondered what my stupid grin was about. :)
 
listening to the news; especially the bit with Ian Maxwell whining about what a rough time his totally innocent sister is having on remand.
Me'eart bleeds, it does.

Well, in law she is innocent until she’s found guilty. The same is true of everyone on remand.

I heard him interviewed on Radio 4, I thought he spoke quite well.
 
Well, in law she is innocent until she’s found guilty. The same is true of everyone on remand.

I heard him interviewed on Radio 4, I thought he spoke quite well.
I wouldn't believe a word he says.
Not just in relation to Ghislaine. If he told me the grass was green and the sky was blue I'd go outside to check.

Ghislaine knows unsavoury things about a lot of powerful people. I'm glad I'm not in her shoes.

Not that I ever would be in her shoes because I don't associate with convicted paedophiles and am most unlikely to be accused of luring adolescents into sex slavery.
 
Love is finishing each other's sentences.jpeg
 
I am SO enjoying the trial coverage. :)

None of Maxwell's glamorous pals has stood by her, not even dear Prince Andrew; surely not the only erstwhile friend to have suddenly taken up sweating. :wink2:

Maxwell has excellent lawyers, the best money can buy, and might get off. She could of course be totally innocent.
:rollingw:


I don't care either way. What interests me is the fear she's in and will be forever. :cool:
 
I am SO enjoying the trial coverage. :)

None of Maxwell's glamorous pals has stood by her, not even dear Prince Andrew; surely not the only erstwhile friend to have suddenly taken up sweating. :wink2:

Maxwell has excellent lawyers, the best money can buy, and might get off. She could of course be totally innocent.
:rollingw:


I don't care either way. What interests me is the fear she's in and will be forever. :cool:
Not trying to defend her. But is it possible she was brought up to this business? The upper class version of grooming? Thinks its normal? Like the Egyptians used to regard incest among the posh?
 
Not trying to defend her. But is it possible she was brought up to this business? The upper class version of grooming? Thinks its normal? Like the Egyptians used to regard incest among the posh?
Perfectly possible. It's certainly the case that she believes rich powerful men need to be kept happy at any price.

But she still knows it's wrong. If she didn't she wouldn't bother denying it.

Her story is not 'Well that's what everybody does!' or 'The girls were prostitutes!' (which how Epstein himself previously justified it with great success) or even 'We paid them really well and bought them gifts and took them on holiday!'

It's 'They're all liars and nothing happened.'
 
Interesting article in the DT - may be paywalled.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2021/12/01/ghislaine-maxwell-another-woman-pays-mans-crimes/
Quite right - where are the men that should also be in court? Johnson? Clinton?
This is part of Maxwell's shoddy defence, that she is being tried for Epstein's crimes. She's actually on trial for separate offences of procurement and human trafficking, to Epstein and others.

The names of various famous men will no doubt be mentioned in due course. There are piles of compromising tapes somewhere for a start.
Maxwell hasn't gone for a plea deal, or more likely hasn't been offered one, because there's no need if the tapes are available.
 
Perfectly possible. It's certainly the case that she believes rich powerful men need to be kept happy at any price.

But she still knows it's wrong. If she didn't she wouldn't bother denying it.

Her story is not 'Well that's what everybody does!' or 'The girls were prostitutes!' (which how Epstein himself previously justified it with great success) or even 'We paid them really well and bought them gifts and took them on holiday!'

It's 'They're all liars and nothing happened.'
Agreed. See the article I mentioned above, and that even though published in a national newspaper it sort of names a couple of names. One would hope that women 'in the bubble' would now be so outraged they would break out. Some of them at least must know what their men were up to without necessarily being enablers themselves. Time that the offenders as well as the enablers were brought to account - neither happened in the Savile travesty.
 
Agreed. See the article I mentioned above, and that even though published in a national newspaper it sort of names a couple of names. One would hope that women 'in the bubble' would now be so outraged they would break out. Some of them at least must know what their men were up to without necessarily being enablers themselves. Time that the offenders as well as the enablers were brought to account - neither happened in the Savile travesty.
Good point, about the offenders and enablers.
Where the enablers are close to the offenders it's usually almost impossible to get them to co-operate in a prosecution.

They don't want to implicate themselves or embarrass their children. How many times have we seen wronged wives standing beside their adulterous politician husbands, shining with gritted teeth?
 
To add to the above - of course it is possibe she's flatly denying it because she knows she will be killed out of hand if she doesn't.
Nail on the head there. :nods:

Glorious, isn't it. :cool:
 
Nail on the head there. :nods:

Glorious, isn't it. :cool:
Well, I don't know. I'm against killing, even judicial killing.

But I do wonder how many of the 'great and good' are bound up in a common purpose by being involved in this and other scandals. This was obviously something organised , funded and run on a global scale. It would account for a lot. And while I don't believe in all conspiracy theories I do believe there are conspiracies. And blackmail. There are such things as photographs.
 
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Real court proceedings can be as much about drama as the TV or movie kind, but in different ways. If there are things like tapes or such, they might be held to the very end of the trial, after all the sleazebags have had ample opportunity to dig themselves into deep holes by lying. One big difference between real trials and the movie kind is that there aren't any surprise witnesses or other evidence, so the defense lawyers will know all about any such tapes.

I was on a jury once. The theatrics were surprising, but a bit more subtle than what you'd see on Barnaby Jones or something like that. For examle, low level criminals brought in from prison to testify were led clanking into the courtroom in orange jumpsuits, handcuffs, and leg irons. These were small time drug dealers, not violent psychopaths. It was very much over the top, to the point of being silly. The arresting officer, who had chased the perps on foot across a residential neighborhood, over fences and between houses, showed up for some reason, looking like an Olympic athlete in a spotless uniform. I tried (not very hard) to get tossed out of the juror pool because I didn't want to spend a week dealing with the whole stinking mess, but I ended up appreciating the experience. I also learned a lot about how the police operate, and ended up very impressed with the resources they managed to pull together on very short notice to make the arrest. I wouldn't have thought it possible, in that small burg, to put two dozen cops in their personal cars into a neighborhood in a matter of minutes.
 
Well, I don't know. I'm against killing, even judicial killing.

But I do wonder how many of the 'great and good' are bound up in a common purpose by being involved in this and other scandals. This was obviously something organised , funded and run on a global scale. It would account for a lot. And while I don't believe in all conspiracy theories I do believe there are conspiracies. And blackmail. There are such things as photographs.
Oh, Maxwell needn't be actually killed. Far too good for her. :wink2:
Nobody need lay a finger on her. I'm enjoying the thought of her fear of it. :chuckle:
 
Oh, Maxwell needn't be actually killed. Far too good for her. :wink2:
Nobody need lay a finger on her. I'm enjoying the thought of her fear of it. :chuckle:
You are a hard case. Have you ever considered becoming a pirate? ;) Channeling Anne Bonny? (The lass who called out Calico Jack for being a wimp).

but yes, Ms Maxwell still seems unable to confront what she has done, although noting she may be too terrified to do so. If she was a real human being she'd take the risk and finger the other swine - in the extremely unlikely case I was in a similar position I'd hope I'd have the courage to face up to what I'd done and take my revenge on the people who were in it with me. Especially since we don't know what sort of manipulation is behind it.
 
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Just asking, but are you ginger? Wife #1 was ginger Irish Catholic. With freckles. I see certain parallels. I really really liked her, she is the mother of my son, no criticism is intended.
Not ginger but descended from Welsh gingers. Two of my kids are though.
One is fetchingly deep auburn, formerly a delightful strawberry blond, and the other has the dark Welsh red. Both are pale with freckles.
 
Not ginger but descended from Welsh gingers. Two of my kids are though.
One is fetchingly deep auburn, formerly a delightful strawberry blond, and the other has the dark Welsh red. Both are pale with freckles.
Yep
Just as I thought :)
Reckoning ginger is running right through your DNA regardless of your hair colour. Just like Wife #1 you take no prisoners.
Good for you.
 
Upper classes? Epstein and Maxwell? Please don't pander to their delusions. Vulgar and rich.
A fair cop, sir.

Truth is it is only the pretend upper classes and the insecure snobs that are like that. I've seen the latter division in my wife's family. Caused by the unacceptable (to the snobs) behaviour of my F-I-L's brother and his German boyfriend. F-I-L always stuck up for them (and for me) and the loathing of the various aunts (in particular) was expressed exactly in their stilted language.
 
A fair cop, sir.

Truth is it is only the pretend upper classes and the insecure snobs that are like that. I've seen the latter division in my wife's family. Caused by the unacceptable (to the snobs) behaviour of my F-I-L's brother and his German boyfriend. F-I-L always stuck up for them (and for me) and the loathing of the various aunts (in particular) was expressed exactly in their stilted language.
I’m not entirely certain whether this is too much information or not enough information.
 
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