The Pentagon Finally Admits It Investigates UFOs

eburacum

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This lot did. This is how UFO flaps work.
 

eburacum

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The witnesses were probably deceived by the home-made fire-balloons that were being released at the time.
 

feinman

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The witnesses were probably deceived by the home-made fire-balloons that were being released at the time.
Doesn't sound like it. Did you read the descriptions?!
 

eburacum

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Oh, yes. They could easily be garbled accounts of fire lanterns.
 

feinman

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Oh, no.
Here is the photographer, for one:
https://www.ufoexplorations.com/copy-of-home-1
No way were all of these people fooled by a fire lantern. And then you have the beams of light, which aren't typically a characteristic of fire lanterns. Anyone can read what the witnesses said and make their own decision about it. From:
https://www.theufochronicles.com/2011/06/witness-to-wanaque-greastest-mass-ufo.html

Mayor Harry T. Wolfe and his Son Billy​
- Councilmen Warren Hagstrom, Arthur Barton and John Shuttle​
- Civil Defense Administrators Bentley Spencer and Richard Vrooman​
- Chief of Police Floyd Elson​
- Officer George Dyckman​
- Patrolman Joe Cisco​
- Sgt. Bobby Gordon (Pompton Lakes Police)​
- Sgts. Ben Thompson and David Sisco​
- Patrolmen Edward Nestor and Jack Wardlaw​
- Reservoir Police & Personnel George Destito, Charles Theodora, Fred Steines​
- The Mother Superior of a Local Convent​
Other witnesses named in the Press at the time include two teenagers (Sloat and Melegrae) and Newark College of Engineering student John DiGiamoco as well as some of the wives and children of those listed above. It was reported that by night’s end, the Police Department had received “dozens” of phone call reports of the object from different locations and vantage points from surrounding areas. The early reports had apparently instigated town officials to convene at the Dam to see the sight for themselves. Of course not everyone saw all of the more spectacular aspects of the incident, with some only reporting less impressive “anomalies” depending on when they arrived, from where they viewed.

What They Said

Key quotes about the event that I have found by combing though and culling reports from newspapers in the days following the event include:

Mayor Wolfe, who would characterize the whole thing by saying that “the phenomena was terribly strange.”

Officer George Dyckman: “I’ve never seen anything like it in my life.”

Reservoir employee Fred Steines stated: “A bolt of light shot down from it as if attracted to the water, like a beam emitted from a portal.”

Councilman Warren Hagstrom: “We got goose bumps all over when we saw where the hole was.”

Patrolman Joe Cisco (recorded on police radio): “Something landed in front of the dam. Something’s burning a hole in the ice! Something with a bright light on it, going up and down!”
 

feinman

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And you are saying it was because of one of these?!
More likely to have been a pterodactyl..
 

eburacum

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These photos are obvious, and shockingly bad, fakes. They are also associated with an event in 1958.
 

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eburacum

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The 'hole in the ice' was caused by a water treatment discharge pipe. The sightings were the result of a deliberate hoax. The photos were a fake. What else?
 

eburacum

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Here's a picture of a fire balloon recovered from the area in 1966
 
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feinman

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So, the PDF invokes Jupiter, and the usual stuff, trying to Keyser Söze what happened into something more mundane. e.g. if a bunch of individuals reported a mysterious plane moving over an area and there was a large crane there --it would have to be the crane. Coutant's credibility is attacked for no real reason. None of the visual characteristics or movements match the fire balloon theory, and apparently no one of the many people who saw the object thought it was a fire balloon, even though it descended fairly close to the earth at times. I ran across articles describing coke-fueled fire balloons in Australia, but that doesn't mean all of the sightings there were those.. Still, there is the remote possibility I will allow in this case that it might have been some kind of fire balloon --to be fair, but it would be difficult to prove, given witness testimony --let's give up on stars and such. Folks launch bottle rockets and all kinds of things near reservoirs, but that doesn't mean people also don't see other things too. The Sherman TX object has a photo associated with it --and many people saw the object, but the photo isn't great, either.
 

michael59

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I am having trouble understanding the logic used by eburacum to rebuke every single one of the thousands of UFO photographs, video, radar, and trace evidence that people have come forward and shared with us at great cost to themselves and their families. IMO, it's actually millions of people that have witnessed the phenomena, but most of us are too scared to share our stories of sightings because of the ridicule. Why would you doubt centuries worth of sightings from these people and then so easily accept explanations such as lanterns and balloons, etc from others?

Yes, there are many hoaxes out there and yes, there are many people who report UFO's that are later easily explained away, but there are also quite a lot of reports that defy explanation. It only takes one to make all the extra terrestrial sightings plausible.

There is no such thing as expertise when it comes to the UFO phenomena. However, there is such a thing as experience and you don't need to be a scientist, police officer, pilot, military rank, or even a celebrity to gain experience. However, knowing what we know today, you do have to be extremely arrogant to believe that we are the only intelligent species in this vast universe of ours.

Just as an example lets take the Farmington case. There is only one photo but you must remember that back in the 1950's, cameras were a luxury item and very expensive. You had to be well off or at least have a rich relative like one that owns a cotton plantation and gives you a camera as a gift for your birthday or Christmas. Alternatively, there may have been more photos and they were confiscated. To say and accept that all those people, who by the way, live in cotton country just saw cotton seeds floating in the sky is absolutely ridiculous.

dr. wu asked, feinman,
Again what is your single best case with irrefutable evidence..? Just one event that screams aliens to you..?
and feinman responded with it being too difficult to choose just one case out of hundreds (or words to that effect). I don't have any problem choosing a single best case, it's mine. The irrefutable evidence being, I saw it with my own two eyes. Wait for it.....I know what I saw. I have seen more than my fair share of ET, I am an extremely observant person, when it comes to my surroundings, always have been. Over the years I have concluded that there were several of what I thought were UFO's that turned out to be drones. I have never mistaken lanterns, swamp gas, balloons, or meteors etc as ET in origin. Don't really care if anyone believes me.

I used to be a lot like feinman, wanting to get the word out to as many people as possible before it actually happens because it is going to happen and I know it isn't going to be pretty. Now that I'm a senior, I hope it does not happen until I am dead and buried. I have said it before and I will say it again, I am too young to submit and too old to be on the run or have to squat to pee.

When it does happen, all debunkers/doubters will be wishing they had worn there brown pants that day. I on the other hand, will be thinking....

tenor.gif


If that makes me sound a little bitter, it's because I am. I did try to warn as many people as possible and in the process ruined a large portion of my life. I'm done, I'm tired. It's not my job to save the world.
 

EnolaGaia

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... Just as an example lets take the Farmington case. There is only one photo but you must remember that back in the 1950's, cameras were a luxury item and very expensive. You had to be well off or at least have a rich relative like one that owns a cotton plantation and gives you a camera as a gift for your birthday or Christmas. Alternatively, there may have been more photos and they were confiscated. To say and accept that all those people, who by the way, live in cotton country just saw cotton seeds floating in the sky is absolutely ridiculous. ...
A clarification ... New Mexico isn't cotton country, and the "cotton" references have nothing to do with cotton plants.

There is some limited cotton production in southernmost New Mexico, but Farmington is in the extreme northernmost area of the state.

The allusions to "cotton" in the Farmington case referred to the cotton-like seed bodies of the cottonwood trees native to that area, which are dispersed in the wind like dandelion down / fluff.
 

michael59

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A clarification ... New Mexico isn't cotton country, and the "cotton" references have nothing to do with cotton plants.

There is some limited cotton production in southernmost New Mexico, but Farmington is in the extreme northernmost area of the state.

The allusions to "cotton" in the Farmington case referred to the cotton-like seed bodies of the cottonwood trees native to that area, which are dispersed in the wind like dandelion down / fluff.
Thank you for the clarification, EnolaGaia.

This dispersal happens on a regular basis, yes:? My point being that they already know what cotton seeds look like in the sky. Saying that over a 3 day period cotton seeds did not occur to anyone watching this is just as unbelievable as myself, living in Canada, not recognizing a snowflake for what it is.
 

EnolaGaia

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... This dispersal happens on a regular basis, yes:?
Assuming the species at issue is Fremont's cottonwood (the main, if not sole, species known in northern New Mexico) ...

Yes - the trees blossom and spread their seed stuff in March and April. The Farmington incident was reported by the local newspaper on March 18, 1950, and allegedly represented sightings occurring during March 16 - 18.


My point being that they already know what cotton seeds look like in the sky. Saying that over a 3 day period cotton seeds did not occur to anyone watching this is just as unbelievable as myself, living in Canada, not recognizing a snowflake for what it is.
Some local residents allegedly claimed (cottonwood) fluff / "cotton" was exactly what they'd seen during these sightings. The statement by a local policeman that these claims comprised much, if not most, of the reports he'd collected is itself disputed.
 

Zeke Newbold

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The allusions to "cotton" in the Farmington case referred to the cotton-like seed bodies of the cottonwood trees native to that area, which are dispersed in the wind like dandelion down / fluff.
This is ssomething that I have experience of. Every year in Moscow - here it happens in June - tha air is filled with fluffy seeds. These originate from Balsam Poplar trees many of which have been planted in and around the area. (Balsam Poplar trees also grow in North America).

The Russian word for this is `pook`` and it is otherwise referred to as `summer snow` because, indeed, that is very much what it looks like. Imagine many of strands of very fine cotton floating around the nearby air - that's how it appears and it would be hard to mistake it for anything else.

We had a particularly bad case of this `pook` last June. I say `bad` because it really is a nuisance. It cuases sneezing and other hay fever like symptoms even among those who do not otherwise suffer from hay fever.

So,I'm with Feinman on this. In those areas where this happens, it is an annual phenomenon which people know all about and are prepared for. In no way could it lead to any reported UFO-like phenomenon. The `cotton seeds` explanation for whatever happened that one year in Farmington is a rather desperate and somewhat condescending one. As Feinman says - it would more likely be pterodactyls!

Anyway, here's a decent article on the phenomenon in Moscow, with pictures:

https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/328455-moscow-poplar-fluff-june
 

eburacum

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The situation in Farmington may have been different on this occasion. If the seeds were floating at a particular height and distance away from the observer and were illuminated by the Sun at a particular angle, then they could very easily have resembled fleets of different sized, distant objects, apparently interacting and even 'dogfighting'.

The supposed 'triangulation' carried out by one observer could very easily have been mistaken, since it would be require at least two separate observers to fix on one single object, an impossible task if there were numerous objects to choose from. This may very well have been an impressive sight, but it seems to have been an entirely natural one - and in no way consistent with the photo.
 

eburacum

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Some local residents allegedly claimed (cottonwood) fluff / "cotton" was exactly what they'd seen during these sightings. The statement by a local policeman that these claims comprised much, if not most, of the reports he'd collected is itself disputed.
We have poplar trees in the UK too, which are closely related to cottonwood trees. The floating seeds can disperse from the upper parts of the tree on occasion and be quite difficult to see, exactly like the reports.
 

eburacum

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... knowing what we know today, you do have to be extremely arrogant to believe that we are the only intelligent species in this vast universe of ours.
People often state things like this concerning ET and UFOs. Of course anyone familiar with my interest in astrobiology would realise how irrelevant it is. Yes, the universe is probably full of life, even intelligent life. No, we have absolutely no conclusive proof that any of it has come to Earth. No genetic proof, no geological record of ancient civilisations, no artifacts, no confirmed wreckage from any UFOs, no bodies, (why on Earth do we think they would even crash? What are they, drunk?) No aliens on the White House Lawn.

I can state with very little fear of contradiction that no-one alive today will ever see conclusive proof of alien presence on Earth. I am hopeful, however, that we will find proof of alien existence using remote sensing of some kind, within the next half century.
 
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feinman

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People often state things like this concerning ET and UFOs. Of course anyone familiar with my interest in astrobiology would realise how irrelevant it is. Yes, the universe is probably full of life, even intelligent life. No, we have absolutely no conclusive proof that any of it has come to Earth. No genetic proof, no geological record of ancient civilisations, no artifacts, no confirmed wreckage from any UFOs, no bodies, (why on Earth do we think they would even crash? What are they, drunk?) No aliens on the White House Lawn.

I can state with very little fear of contradiction that no-one alive today will ever see conclusive proof of alien presence on Earth. I am hopeful, however, that we will find proof of alien existence using remote sensing of some kind, within the next half century.
I agree with the first part of your statement concerning the possibility of life elsewhere, and it is true given the distances, etc. It would be very unlikely for any life even capable of visiting the Earth to get here. I also think it is accurate to say that there is currently no conclusive proof (for folks who have not had close enough encounters to see that they are real) and I do understand that folks who have not seen them are not going to get on the bandwagon without more proof --it's just not scientific or smart. Hopefully proof will come for them! It's possible. One of the saddest things for me these days is seeing great scientists and other very curious and intelligent people die without seeing UFOs themselves. It is the greatest experience and gift I have ever had. Of course it's possible that lower alien life is here or has been here before in the form of viruses, etc.
'
 

INT21

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So, Michael59,

You say you have seen more than your fair share of ET....(Post #139 above)

Could you describe some of these Extra Terrestrials And how you can be so sure that they were indeed from some place not on Earth.
 

feinman

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I am having trouble understanding the logic used by eburacum to rebuke every single one of the thousands of UFO photographs, video, radar, and trace evidence that people have come forward and shared with us at great cost to themselves and their families. IMO, it's actually millions of people that have witnessed the phenomena, but most of us are too scared to share our stories of sightings because of the ridicule. Why would you doubt centuries worth of sightings from these people and then so easily accept explanations such as lanterns and balloons, etc from others?

Yes, there are many hoaxes out there and yes, there are many people who report UFO's that are later easily explained away, but there are also quite a lot of reports that defy explanation. It only takes one to make all the extra terrestrial sightings plausible.

There is no such thing as expertise when it comes to the UFO phenomena. However, there is such a thing as experience and you don't need to be a scientist, police officer, pilot, military rank, or even a celebrity to gain experience. However, knowing what we know today, you do have to be extremely arrogant to believe that we are the only intelligent species in this vast universe of ours.

Just as an example lets take the Farmington case. There is only one photo but you must remember that back in the 1950's, cameras were a luxury item and very expensive. You had to be well off or at least have a rich relative like one that owns a cotton plantation and gives you a camera as a gift for your birthday or Christmas. Alternatively, there may have been more photos and they were confiscated. To say and accept that all those people, who by the way, live in cotton country just saw cotton seeds floating in the sky is absolutely ridiculous.

dr. wu asked, feinman, and feinman responded with it being too difficult to choose just one case out of hundreds (or words to that effect). I don't have any problem choosing a single best case, it's mine. The irrefutable evidence being, I saw it with my own two eyes. Wait for it.....I know what I saw. I have seen more than my fair share of ET, I am an extremely observant person, when it comes to my surroundings, always have been. Over the years I have concluded that there were several of what I thought were UFO's that turned out to be drones. I have never mistaken lanterns, swamp gas, balloons, or meteors etc as ET in origin. Don't really care if anyone believes me.

I used to be a lot like feinman, wanting to get the word out to as many people as possible before it actually happens because it is going to happen and I know it isn't going to be pretty. Now that I'm a senior, I hope it does not happen until I am dead and buried. I have said it before and I will say it again, I am too young to submit and too old to be on the run or have to squat to pee.

When it does happen, all debunkers/doubters will be wishing they had worn there brown pants that day. I on the other hand, will be thinking....

View attachment 19838

If that makes me sound a little bitter, it's because I am. I did try to warn as many people as possible and in the process ruined a large portion of my life. I'm done, I'm tired. It's not my job to save the world.
I didn't see you post until just now, and I agree with you!! I'd like to know more too, as INT21 does.
 

michael59

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So, Michael59,

You say you have seen more than your fair share of ET....(Post #139 above)

Could you describe some of these Extra Terrestrials And how you can be so sure that they were indeed from some place not on Earth.
No, I don't want to.
 

michael59

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I didn't see you post until just now, and I agree with you!! I'd like to know more too, as INT21 does.
I said a few things in that post. What part do you agree with?
 

feinman

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I said a few things in that post. What part do you agree with?
All of it! I too have been trying to get the word out, and have posted on other forums and made presentations at community centers, etc. I know how you feel. I don't think we are ready for full contact --this is as much as we can handle, and it is actually quite a bit as you know.
 

feinman

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There are a lot of people who will have to have an ironclad experience themselves, to be convinced, or something they can test in the lab that is exotic enough. That's the tiresome part of spreading the word, I also have essentially given up talking to folks about it --if they are interested, I'll show them where to look, but that;s about it, for the most part. Besides, most people don't even want to know --it is too strange and paradigm upsetting for them.
 

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^post 150

"That would be telling..."

:)
 

INT21

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Fair enough. Your prerogative.
 

feinman

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Fair enough. Your prerogative.
There are a lot of people past and present who regret telling others about their experiences -for various reasons. The experiences can be terrifying and traumatic or overwhelmingly awe-inspiring. When you read the accounts, you might think "Hey! That would be no big deal to experience one of those things!" --But the reality is very different; seeing something not from here is extremely affecting and would be intolerable at close quarters for most people. It is high strangeness on every level. And the sense of being watched or observed or isolated by the devices and having them reveal themselves to you --it is hard to deal with.
 
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