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The Ray Alan Time-Slip Case (Chesterfield; 1969)

Floyd1

Antediluvian
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As an aside; I have often thought of a story I heard Ray Alan (ventiloquist) once tell many years ago. (I am sure I haven't made this up, although I have not been able to find any evidence of the interview). In the late 60's he was touring around the country doing his ventriloquist act, when one night on arriving at Chesterfied train station, he stopped off at a small shop/shack to buy cigarettes. I can't remember exactly what happened, but it was something like the old woman who ran the place wouldn't accept his money at first (decimal coinage had just come in), or she gave him his change in 'old' money- something along those lines. Anyway, he did his show that night at the Chesterfield hotel, and next morning on walking back to the station, the shop was nowhere to be seen. He asked a local passerby where the shop was that was run by the old woman and the passerby said ''Oh, you mean old Mrs so & so? That shop hasn't been here for years. It has always stuck in my mind, but I have never met anyone who has also heard this story.
 
As an aside; I have often thought of a story I heard Ray Alan (ventiloquist) once tell many years ago. (I am sure I haven't made this up, although I have not been able to find any evidence of the interview). In the late 60's he was touring around the country doing his ventriloquist act, when one night on arriving at Chesterfied train station, he stopped off at a small shop/shack to buy cigarettes. I can't remember exactly what happened, but it was something like the old woman who ran the place wouldn't accept his money at first (decimal coinage had just come in), or she gave him his change in 'old' money- something along those lines. Anyway, he did his show that night at the Chesterfield hotel, and next morning on walking back to the station, the shop was nowhere to be seen. He asked a local passerby where the shop was that was run by the old woman and the passerby said ''Oh, you mean old Mrs so & so? That shop hasn't been here for years. It has always stuck in my mind, but I have never met anyone who has also heard this story.
This is very interesting! Might be worth trying to see if Alan did an autobiography -- I'll check Abe.
 
Seems he didn't write an autobiography, although he wrote several crime novels and something called "A Gottle of Gear" based on, or the original source of, a TV special.
 
The fact that he actually had the pack of cigarettes makes this case even more interesting to me.
Yes. Looking at the info on the net, it seems that the new coinage was intoduced in stages from 1968 to the final changeover year 1971, which suggests that his experience took place in 1968 or 1969.
 
Yes. Looking at the info on the net, it seems that the new coinage was intoduced in stages from 1968 to the final changeover year 1971, which suggests that his experience took place in 1968 or 1969.
Yes. I had 1969 in my memory from hearing the story and remembered there was something odd about money in it. The thing is, I tried researching it years ago, but couldn't seem to find anything on it. I even wrote to the 'Derbyshire Times' newspaper to see if they had heard about it, but I didn't get a reply. I began to think I'd got it mixed up with another person and/or story. I think it was back in the 80s when I heard Ray talk about it. Or maybe I even read an interview with him.
 
Yes. I had 1969 in my memory from hearing the story and remembered there was something odd about money in it. The thing is, I tried researching it years ago, but couldn't seem to find anything on it. I even wrote to the 'Derbyshire Times' newspaper to see if they had heard about it, but I didn't get a reply. I began to think I'd got it mixed up with another person and/or story. I think it was back in the 80s when I heard Ray talk about it. Or maybe I even read an interview with him.
Yes, it's annoying when you remember an interesting tale but can't date it or name the source. Back in the 80s I heard a witness on LBC radio describing how he'd arrived home late one night, too tired to get undressed neatly and flinging his shoes under the bed. In the morning -- no sign of the shoes. Years later, after the room had been redecorated and all the furniture taken out, they reappeared lying under the bed as if they had just been flung there.
 
Yes, it's annoying when you remember an interesting tale but can't date it or name the source. Back in the 80s I heard a witness on LBC radio describing how he'd arrived home late one night, too tired to get undressed neatly and flinging his shoes under the bed. In the morning -- no sign of the shoes. Years later, after the room had been redecorated and all the furniture taken out, they reappeared lying under the bed as if they had just been flung there.
It makes you wonder how many 'time-slips' we perhaps have without even realising it. Like the shoes, it would explain a hell of a lot of strange incidences in life!
 
Yes, it's annoying when you remember an interesting tale but can't date it or name the source. Back in the 80s I heard a witness on LBC radio describing how he'd arrived home late one night, too tired to get undressed neatly and flinging his shoes under the bed. In the morning -- no sign of the shoes. Years later, after the room had been redecorated and all the furniture taken out, they reappeared lying under the bed as if they had just been flung there.
With no dust on them?
 
Yes, it's annoying when you remember an interesting tale but can't date it or name the source. Back in the 80s I heard a witness on LBC radio describing how he'd arrived home late one night, too tired to get undressed neatly and flinging his shoes under the bed. In the morning -- no sign of the shoes. Years later, after the room had been redecorated and all the furniture taken out, they reappeared lying under the bed as if they had just been flung there.
Hey Carl, had a thought last night concerning the Ray Alan case; I wondered if the building of the A61 'Rother Way,' which goes right past and through, the original line of part of Corporation Street (and may have actually been the reason the shop was demolished, depending on exactly where the shop was on Corporation Street), is anything to do with the time slip Alan experienced. I know that in the case of Kersey, it has remained pretty much the same (road-wise) for hundreds of years, but maybe there was also some kind of construction work going on there in 1957- maybe resurfacing or cable laying etc. From what I have read though, Rother Way was put in in the mid 70s/early 80s, so perhaps it is not the case. Just a thought that nearby disruption of some kind- new roads/houses/factories etc etc, might have a connection to time-slips somehow.
 
Hey Carl, had a thought last night concerning the Ray Alan case; I wondered if the building of the A61 'Rother Way,' which goes right past and through, the original line of part of Corporation Street (and may have actually been the reason the shop was demolished, depending on exactly where the shop was on Corporation Street), is anything to do with the time slip Alan experienced. I know that in the case of Kersey, it has remained pretty much the same (road-wise) for hundreds of years, but maybe there was also some kind of construction work going on there in 1957- maybe resurfacing or cable laying etc. From what I have read though, Rother Way was put in in the mid 70s/early 80s, so perhaps it is not the case. Just a thought that nearby disruption of some kind- new roads/houses/factories etc etc, might have a connection to time-slips somehow.
It's a possibility. If earth energy is a factor, as it seems to be in some places at least, then anything that would change or modulate the energy could have some effects. (As I mentioned before (maybe not on this particular thread) it is said that the suicide rate in Kersey is unusually high, and that's exactly what Phil Sage told me about Rougham. Impossible to verify that as official suicide figures don't exist for towns or villages.) Might be something to ask witnesses about in time slip cases. Might be connected with that new motorway in the Australian future time slip case?
 
It's a possibility. If earth energy is a factor, as it seems to be in some places at least, then anything that would change or modulate the energy could have some effects. (As I mentioned before (maybe not on this particular thread) it is said that the suicide rate in Kersey is unusually high, and that's exactly what Phil Sage told me about Rougham. Impossible to verify that as official suicide figures don't exist for towns or villages.) Might be something to ask witnesses about in time slip cases. Might be connected with that new motorway in the Australian future time slip case?
I just had a look at Rougham again. I haven't read about it for ages, but it turns out I'd been reading your articles years ago! Didn't realise you were famous!
 
I just had a look at Rougham again. I haven't read about it for ages, but it turns out I'd been reading your articles years ago! Didn't realise you were famous!
I wouldn't say that! I was just in the right place at the right time, and all the evidence was pretty well dumped in my lap. But in the process I was busy downloading all the time slip cases I could find on the net and ended up with over a GB of data, which when printed out is equivalent to about 3000 pages (and I have printed it out, because I do find it easier to handle information on paper than on a screen.) And I suspect that is the tip of the iceberg -- lots more witnesses are still out there. And more cases are constantly appearing, e.g. Ray Alan.
 
I wouldn't say that! I was just in the right place at the right time, and all the evidence was pretty well dumped in my lap. But in the process I was busy downloading all the time slip cases I could find on the net and ended up with over a GB of data, which when printed out is equivalent to about 3000 pages (and I have printed it out, because I do find it easier to handle information on paper than on a screen.) And I suspect that is the tip of the iceberg -- lots more witnesses are still out there. And more cases are constantly appearing, e.g. Ray Alan.
Carl, just a couple more points; I forgot to say I hadn't heard of the Australian incident you mentioned, so I'll look it up. Also, I've been meaning to ask if you've ever seen the Telly Savalas (Kojak) interview where he talks of a (very) strange encounter he had on Long Island in 1959.
 
The Australian case has vanished from the net but I transcribed this from my original print-out:

FUTURE TIME SLIP IN AUSTRALIA
Posted originally on Anthony Peake website ca 2013, but no longer available.
Punctuation and spelling improved.
Hi,
I have also had an experience similar to these [previous posts]. I live in Australia and
at the age of 23 travelled from Sydney in one state to the Sunshine Coast in another. At that
time the highway was pretty much single lane, passing through most towns. During my
holiday on the sunny coast I overheard some people talking of the great time-cutting bypass
around Newcastle, which is quite a large city. I was excited to try it on the way back,
assuming that I must have missed the exit on my way up the coast, as I tended to be a bit of
a day-dreamer, listening to my music up loud. Anyway, I made sure I paid close attention
on my way back, and some distance outside a small town called Raymond Terrace, sure
enough, there was my bypass. It was terrific, must have cut my time by about an hour.
Some months later, I travelled back up the coast for a holiday with my then partner. It
was shortly after the Newcastle earth quake, because we both made mention of what was
happening on the news. It was another great time-saving trip there and back.
It wasn't until later when we had an argument with someone regarding the new
Newcastle bypass, who was adamant that it didn't exist, it was only in the planning stage,
that I suppose we kind of wondered who was the “crazy” one, because we knew it was
there. I had personally driven on it three times – twice with my partner.
The next time we went up the coast on holiday, we couldn't find the bypass exit, we
even ended up turning around to try and find it, but it wasn't there. It wasn't until years later
that it came into existence in the entirety of which we drove. So I suppose the question is,
did we experience a time slip or alternate universe, or was it an act of “consciousness?” I
truly believed the road existed, and so it did, to the extent that I passed on my belief to my
partner, who in turn shared in the experience. Because it wasn't until there was doubt in my
mind as to its reality that it was no longer there... I don't know.
Pixieanne
Note:
The 1989 Newcastle earthquake occurred in Newcastle, New South Wales on
Thursday, 28 December. The shock measured 5.6 on the Richter magnitude scale and was
one of Australia's most serious natural disasters, killing 13 people and injuring more than
160.
1989 Newcastle earthquake - Wikipedia

The Telly Savalas case... rings a bit of a bell but not sure if I have seen anything specific about it. Will have a look.
 
The Australian case has vanished from the net but I transcribed this from my original print-out:

FUTURE TIME SLIP IN AUSTRALIA
Posted originally on Anthony Peake website ca 2013, but no longer available.
Punctuation and spelling improved.
Hi,
I have also had an experience similar to these [previous posts]. I live in Australia and
at the age of 23 travelled from Sydney in one state to the Sunshine Coast in another. At that
time the highway was pretty much single lane, passing through most towns. During my
holiday on the sunny coast I overheard some people talking of the great time-cutting bypass
around Newcastle, which is quite a large city. I was excited to try it on the way back,
assuming that I must have missed the exit on my way up the coast, as I tended to be a bit of
a day-dreamer, listening to my music up loud. Anyway, I made sure I paid close attention
on my way back, and some distance outside a small town called Raymond Terrace, sure
enough, there was my bypass. It was terrific, must have cut my time by about an hour.
Some months later, I travelled back up the coast for a holiday with my then partner. It
was shortly after the Newcastle earth quake, because we both made mention of what was
happening on the news. It was another great time-saving trip there and back.
It wasn't until later when we had an argument with someone regarding the new
Newcastle bypass, who was adamant that it didn't exist, it was only in the planning stage,
that I suppose we kind of wondered who was the “crazy” one, because we knew it was
there. I had personally driven on it three times – twice with my partner.
The next time we went up the coast on holiday, we couldn't find the bypass exit, we
even ended up turning around to try and find it, but it wasn't there. It wasn't until years later
that it came into existence in the entirety of which we drove. So I suppose the question is,
did we experience a time slip or alternate universe, or was it an act of “consciousness?” I
truly believed the road existed, and so it did, to the extent that I passed on my belief to my
partner, who in turn shared in the experience. Because it wasn't until there was doubt in my
mind as to its reality that it was no longer there... I don't know.
Pixieanne
Note:
The 1989 Newcastle earthquake occurred in Newcastle, New South Wales on
Thursday, 28 December. The shock measured 5.6 on the Richter magnitude scale and was
one of Australia's most serious natural disasters, killing 13 people and injuring more than
160.
1989 Newcastle earthquake - Wikipedia

The Telly Savalas case... rings a bit of a bell but not sure if I have seen anything specific about it. Will have a look.
That's another interesting case. Thanks for that.
 
Just had an email from a site with info about ray alan, but it doesn't have any fresh source.
 
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Excellent! I think it must have been here where the buildings are just up from the station on the left.https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sid...=53.2378&lon=-1.4214&layers=168&right=BingHyb -this is a great mapping series for comparing old with modern- (if you haven't already used it).
Not only have I not used it, I've never heard of it! I shall see if I can find images of Corporation Street on Geograph (which used to be brilliant, but has now lost most of its images) or Google.
 
Excellent! I think it must have been here where the buildings are just up from the station on the left.https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sid...=53.2378&lon=-1.4214&layers=168&right=BingHyb -this is a great mapping series for comparing old with modern- (if you haven't already used it).
Nothing much on Google. I have sent a message to the Chesterfield local history group. Did you notice Eyre's brief reference to another time slip in the same area?--I will email him again to find out.
 
Hey Carl, had a thought last night concerning the Ray Alan case; I wondered if the building of the A61 'Rother Way,' which goes right past and through, the original line of part of Corporation Street (and may have actually been the reason the shop was demolished, depending on exactly where the shop was on Corporation Street), is anything to do with the time slip Alan experienced. I know that in the case of Kersey, it has remained pretty much the same (road-wise) for hundreds of years, but maybe there was also some kind of construction work going on there in 1957- maybe resurfacing or cable laying etc. From what I have read though, Rother Way was put in in the mid 70s/early 80s, so perhaps it is not the case. Just a thought that nearby disruption of some kind- new roads/houses/factories etc etc, might have a connection to time-slips somehow.
My understanding is that Ray had this experience whilst walking from the station to Chesterfield Hotel and vice-versa. This is an extremely short distance, as to get from the station to the hotel, you turn left upon leaving the station, walk maybe 30 yards and then cross the road, with the hotel there. There are currently no shops on the little bit of road you'd walk along - just an old building, used, I think, as an insurance company office. I've just spoken to Vivienne Brocklehurst, who researched this matter in conjunction with the Local Studies section of Chesterfield Library and who wrote the article on time-slips in Psychic News. The feeling is that the shop was very small, basically next door to the station, on the left-hand side of the road and definitely now demolished. The point is that the shop would not have been where the A61 is, as that is the east of the station and the relevant road is to the west of the station.
 
My understanding is that Ray had this experience whilst walking from the station to Chesterfield Hotel and vice-versa. This is an extremely short distance, as to get from the station to the hotel, you turn left upon leaving the station, walk maybe 30 yards and then cross the road, with the hotel there. There are currently no shops on the little bit of road you'd walk along - just an old building, used, I think, as an insurance company office. I've just spoken to Vivienne Brocklehurst, who researched this matter in conjunction with the Local Studies section of Chesterfield Library and who wrote the article on time-slips in Psychic News. The feeling is that the shop was very small, basically next door to the station, on the left-hand side of the road and definitely now demolished. The point is that the shop would not have been where the A61 is, as that is the east of the station and the relevant road is to the west of the station.
Thanks for this information. It seems the shop should be marked somewhere on the old map referenced by Floyd1 -- just checked, there seem to be four fair sized blocks there plus two much smaller buildings/sheds, one of which must be Mabel's shop. We're pinning it down quite well at last.
Can Vivienne maybe give us a link to her article in Psychic News? If there have been two separate time slips in that area, it makes it more significant and certainly more interesting.
 
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