The Risks Of E-Cigarettes & Vaping

EnolaGaia

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#61
Meanwhile, Wisconsin officials have claimed THC compounds are involved in 89% of lung disease cases they've recently surveyed.
THC found in Wisconsin vaping cases that led to illnesses

Nearly nine out of 10 cases where vaping led to people developing a severe lung disease in Wisconsin involved the use of THC products, such as waxes or oils, Wisconsin’s Department of Health Services said Thursday.

Health officials said that 89% of the 27 people they interviewed who became sick reported using e-cigarettes or other vaping devices to inhale THC, the psychoactive compound in marijuana.

“Vaping cartridges containing THC may include chemicals or additives that are unknown, unregulated, and unsafe,” Department of Health Services Secretary-designee Andrea Palm said in a statement. “We strongly urge people not to vape.”

Health officials said despite the finding they’re still investigating all possible causes for why people became ill with “severe chemical pneumonitis, or chemical pneumonia.” Officials say it’s an inflammation of the lungs due to inhaling irritants. Health officials say they’re also working with the FDA to determine the contents of vaping products the people used. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.apnews.com/ebbbe10f936c4847baec6038e9745e0d
 

EnolaGaia

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#62
... And now a second fatality has been reported from Oregon.
Another death from lung illness linked to vaping reported

Oregon health officials are investigating a death from severe respiratory illness that could be linked to vaping, according to an announcement made Tuesday by the Oregon Health Authority.

The individual in Oregon, who died in July, had recently vaped products containing cannabis purchased at a dispensary, according to the announcement.

Last month, the Illinois Department of Public Health announced the first such death amid a growing number of similar lung illnesses across the country. ...

Health officials say it's unclear whether there's a connection between cases, whether vaping definitively caused these illnesses and what components or chemicals of e-cigarettes might be responsible.

"We don't yet know the exact cause of these illnesses -- whether they're caused by contaminants, ingredients in the liquid or something else, such as the device itself," Dr. Ann Thomas, public health physician at Oregon Health Authority's Public Health Division, said in a statement.

The report comes after US health officials revealed new national figures on Friday: As of August 27, there are at least 215 possible cases in 25 states of severe lung disease that could be caused by vaping -- with additional cases still under investigation, according to a statement by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the US Food and Drug Administration. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/03/health/ecigarettes-vaping-death-lung-disease-oregon-bn/index.html
 

EnolaGaia

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#63
The scattered vaping-related deaths in the USA seem to be turning into a nationwide phenomenon ...
A Sixth Person Has Now Died From The Mysterious Lung Illness Linked to Vaping

Kansas health officials confirmed the first death in the state Tuesday associated with an outbreak of serious lung disease related to vaping or using e-cigarettes. It is at least the sixth such death reported nationwide.

The Kansas resident was over 50 and had a history of underlying health issues, state health officials said in a news release. The person was hospitalized "with symptoms that progressed rapidly."

Kansas officials said they do not have detailed information on what types of products were used by the patient.

The national investigation has not identified any specific vaping or e-cigarette products linked to all cases. Many patients report using vaping or e-cigarette products with liquids that contain cannabinoid products, such as THC, the active ingredient in marijuana that produces the high.

The Kansas death is at least the fourth reported in a middle aged or older person. Minnesota and Los Angeles county officials also reported deaths in older persons last week. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.sciencealert.com/a-sixt...-the-mysterious-lung-illness-linked-to-vaping
 

Shady

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#64
I wonder if something has been changed in the liquid, cause it seems to be getting more and more prominent and if the patient is going downhill fast it suggests something has been changed in the formula, maybe?
 

EnolaGaia

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#66
I wonder if something has been changed in the liquid, cause it seems to be getting more and more prominent and if the patient is going downhill fast it suggests something has been changed in the formula, maybe?
There are many such vaping liquids on the market, and there seems to be a problem in determining which (or of what type; or with what ingredient(s)) seem strongly correlated with the current illnesses and deaths.

At least one US state has already banned all flavored vaping solutions, but that was already in the works as a measure to limit the products' attractiveness to minors.

Another angle that's been mentioned concerns the fact multiple of the sickest / deceased ones were vaping marijuana and / or cannabis derivatives.

As a problem in epidemiological analysis this situation is quite complicated.
 

Shady

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#68
EnolaGaia got what i meant guys, she understands Shady speak ;) :p
 

ChasFink

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#69
Is the rest of the world in the same sort of panic over vaping that the U.S. is?

There have been less than 10 deaths reported as vaping-related (and I believe most of those involving cannabis or other unofficial substances) but there's a huge cry to do something about it NOW! I also don't understand the main "something" that's being done, banning flavored e-juices. If you don't want people to die from it, ban it altogether; but if you don't want to ban it, why deny the flavors to adult users? And I don't see how limiting the flavors available will make adolescents less likely to try it - they're not doing it for the flavor.
 

GNC

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#70
Isn't it better to do something about it now before the death toll reaches 50? 100? 1000?
 

EnolaGaia

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... I also don't understand the main "something" that's being done, banning flavored e-juices. If you don't want people to die from it, ban it altogether; but if you don't want to ban it, why deny the flavors to adult users? ...
The medical community is working hard to figure out what, if any, commonalities there are among the most severe and lethal cases of respiratory failures that have surfaced over the last few months. The early (and still tentative) evidence suggests the illnesses are linked to the vaping compounds' chemical composition, and the initial suspicions focus on adulterants and flavorings.

A secondary problem is the discovery that multiple popular vaping compounds have been imitated and sold widely in the form of black / grey market fake products with who-knows-what chemicals included. The fragmentary evidence collected to date indicates a degree of correlation between severe illnesses and these faked products - especially those involving cannabis and / or cannabis-derived substances.

The faking (and prospect of contamination) seems to be most common with flavored vaping products.
 
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GNC

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#72
I suppose it's the same with tobacco cigarettes containing more shit and sawdust than actual tobacco.
 

ChasFink

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#74
Isn't it better to do something about it now before the death toll reaches 50? 100? 1000?
That's assuming it will.

If ten people in the U.S. (about 0.0000003% of the population, if I figure correctly) died of stomach problems and the best link you could make was that they all liked a lot of hot sauce, you wouldn't ban hot sauce - a product that has been available for years without unexpected health risks - and you wouldn't even ban the ones that were more popular with youngsters. You would try to figure out what the real link is, whether stomach problems were on the rise in hot sauce users, and if the risk to the population is severe.
The medical community is working hard to figure out what, if any, commonalities there are among the most severe and lethal cases of respiratory failures that have surfaced over the last few months. The early (and still tentative) evidence suggests the illnesses are linked to the vaping compounds' chemical composition, and the initial suspicions focus on adulterants and flavorings.

A secondary problem is the discovery that multiple popular vaping compounds have been imitated and sold widely in the form of black / grey market fake products with who-knows-what chemicals included. The fragmentary evidence collected to date indicates a degree of correlation between severe illnesses and these faked products - especially those involving cannabis and / or cannabis-derived substances.

The faking (and prospect of contanimation) seems to be most common with flavored vaping products.
Except the reason that the bans are taking place is to keep children from getting hooked, not because the flavors add more risk. It would make sense to regulate the industry, minimize the more dangerous chemicals by law, and keep the black/grey market products off the shelves, but that's not what most people are saying. Even if that eventually happens, I'm sure no one will then be saying "now that we know what the real dangers are we can bring the flavors back".

Again, I don't vape and really am not impacted by this stuff; it's just my libertarian streak acting up.

And can anyone answer my first question: Is this panic over the last few weeks being felt outside the U.S.? I feel there's some media influence at work here.
 

brownmane

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#76
Lately, in the news here, I've been hearing about the targeting of youth with the flavours in vape products.

There was an interview on CBC Radio in which they were discussing how popular vaping has become with youth in such a short time. I think part of this has to do with youth always following the newest trends, but also because vaping was introduced with almost no warnings about health problems. It seems to take governments (food and drug ministries) forever to ok something new on market, but the e-cig/vapes were allowed almost without any studies or reviews. And they were originally touted as a healthier way to try to quit smoking, but anyone I know who started them as a means to quit smoking are either still vaping or went back to smoking
 

EnolaGaia

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... Except the reason that the bans are taking place is to keep children from getting hooked, not because the flavors add more risk. It would make sense to regulate the industry, minimize the more dangerous chemicals by law, and keep the black/grey market products off the shelves, but that's not what most people are saying. Even if that eventually happens, I'm sure no one will then be saying "now that we know what the real dangers are we can bring the flavors back". ...
The state bans enacted to date aren't direct results of the recent wave of reported illnesses. Michigan had a bill bubbling through the legislative process for months before the illness news emerged. New York's legislature was also considering a ban on flavored vaping products, but the state government went ahead and issued a ban soon after the illness news surfaced. Illinois is fast-tracking their own previously proposed flavored products ban.

In all 3 cases, the original impetus was removing products alleged to be targeting young people and drawing them into a tobacco habit.

In other words, the explanations you hear to date aren't a gloss on the recent illness stories - they're an accurate representation of the rationale behind states' legislative initiatives already in motion before the illness stories appeared.
 

ChasFink

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#78
In other words, the explanations you hear to date aren't a gloss on the recent illness stories - they're an accurate representation of the rationale behind states' legislative initiatives already in motion before the illness stories appeared.
Fair enough, but like so many things (USA Patriot act, Gulf of Tonkin resolution) the impetus to get them enacted was the recent (and not entirely related) news.
 

AnonyJoolz

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#81
I'm a vaper - as a probably safer alternative to smoking.

Vaping has never been touted as 'safe', I've only ever seen it discussed online and IRL as an effective harm reduction strategy for nicotine addicts.

It's likely that vaping THC-related compounds has had the negative health effect mentioned recently in the news media - and vaping cannabis-related compounds is relatively new on the vaping scene. It may be that oil-like molecules in the cannabinoids are responsible. It sounds like a really stupid idea to vape anything that has a volatile/oil-like component.

I think what is at work here is the typical risk:response ratio misperception. Health panics also sell papers and other media.

I chose to vape on the rationale of:
  • Cigarette smoking has, by dint of a century's medical data, been proven to have a 50% (more or less) of killing habitual smokers.
  • Reducing the amount of different substances to relatively fewer (compared to tobacco smoke) in reputable vaping liquid and ingredients at least reduces the risk from directly inhaling burned leaves to obtain nicotine (this is the carcinogenic factor).
  • Nicotine in and of itself isn't hugely harmful - it's a mental stimulant and the high rate of nicotine addiction in those with mental illnesses is telling. It can have health risks but again, we have to compare it to smoking cigarettes.
  • The majority of people vaping (so far) have been habitual cigarette smokers and are using vaping as a means to cease smoking.
  • It's much more pleasant and less antisocial for those around me (ie, I'm not smelling of stale smoke and dropping fag butts)
  • Since the advent of e-cigarettes in 2005, the basic ingredients of vape liquid have remained vegetable-based glycerine, distilled water, propylene glycol, nicotine solution. Propylene glycol is also contained in nebulisers and inhalers for asthmatic symptoms although I accept the methods of inhaled delivery are somewhat different.
  • It's significantly cheaper.
  • It represents much less of a fire safety risk notwithstanding exploding chargers et al.
I think what we have here is a moral panic situation, exacerbated by a somewhat Puritan tendency that is outraged that some deviant nicotine-addicted smokers have finally found a pleasurable way to (hopefully) ameliorate the harms of their addiction without too much pain or cost.

India has recently banned all vaping devices - speculation for the reason varies from the loss of tax revenue from tobacco to backhanders from the cig firms and NRT pharmacy firms. It certainly can't be public health concerns when smoking kills millions in the country every year and vaping could be the biggest public health development in decades.

If one does a little digging it's also found that some manufacturers of NRT (Nicotine Replacement Therapy) have been sponsoring research and reports that make the headline re. negative effects of vaping.

Public Health England has stated that vaping is 'probably' much safer than continuing to smoke cigarettes. No-one knows yet - but we do know the proven risks of smoking. After vaping for 6.5 years now, gradually reducing my nicotine % and also mixing my own vaping liquid so I can quality-control at least some aspects, I aim to cease vaping within the next 1-2 years.

An analogy I can think of is mobile phones. They've only been in widespread use for 18-20 years. We don't know (yet) if there are any severe health effects associated with the handsets, the wifi and the signal masts. There is no certain data (yet). Yet around 95% of us use them - without any guarantees of the health effects or absence of negative future effects.

Guess what? sometimes we don't know but I personally compared the risk/benefit to myself and decided, when I caved in to a nicotine addiction yet again (I even once abstained for 4 years but fell off the wagon), that I'd do it with an e-cig. In my own case, I was able to stop strong inhalers, chest infections and ear infections all directly caused by the effects of smoking. Even if I end up vaping all my life and my ears turn green and my bum drops off - I've had 6+ years of better quality life at the cost of about £6 a week.
 
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brownmane

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#82
I appreciate your reasoning @AnonyJoolz. I do believe that e-cigs were originally a tool to help smokers to quit. You have obviously studied what is in the vape pod (sorry I don't know the terminology) and you have made an informed choice.

I think the current health problems may stem from people who were not cigarette smokers wishing to quit, but people who just started to vape because it was touted as safer than smoking. The amount of nicotine in one pod is more than one cigarette, so uninformed people are not aware as to how much they are using and are not focussing on using vaping as a way of quitting entirely.

The news stories than I have heard or read, say that as of yet there is no clear cause of the recent respiratory illnesses, only that the person has been vaping.

I do believe that more research needs to be done.
 

AlienView

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#84
I know of two things that have not been 'proven' 'without a reasonable doubt':

1. That aliens from outer space exist.

2. That 'one person' definitely died from vaping - a commercial vape product being the cause of death. {assuming they didn't try to eat it and then choked on it.}

Don't know about the UK, where it has been determined by science, " E-cigarettes are at least 95% safer than cigarettes according to the Royal College of Physicians.",

But if you follow the mainstream news in the US, they started a smear campaign against vapes
maybe two years ago claiming there is this 'epidemic' of school age children becoming overnight nicotine addicts - like they were trying to make vape users into junkies shooting up.

This did not work - Young people, probably most of which are of age, seem to greatly favor
the clean and supposedly less dangerous vape to the rather dirty burning tobacco known to have
many contaminants and carcinogens,

But its been a losing battle, according to their statistics, many of which I doubt are accurate,
more and more young adults were taking up vaping - And this has lit a fire, so to speak, under
the you know what of the anti-nicotine prohibitionist who will do almost anything to demonize
tobacco in any form whatsoever even if it is not particularly dangerous.

So the fix is in - All they need is a make believe disease to suit their agenda - And they got it
- Just ask anyone coming into an emergency room, or even gong to their regular doctor, with
a lung problem, if they were vaping recently - And if they say yes, that's proof - Another
vaping related illness - And if they die you now have more evidence of those evil vapes!!!

HOW STUPID DO THEY THINK THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS ???

Unfortunately they are fooling a lot of people - Two states and one city, San Francisco, has
outlawed or greatly restricted sale.

Prohibition and the war against drugs with the corresponding rise of big time organized crime
I guess needs more contraband to increase the power of the American underworld !!!

So let them outlaw vapes - The next Al Capone or El Chapo is waiting to be born.
 

Mythopoeika

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#85
Prohibition and the war against drugs with the corresponding rise of big time organized crime I guess needs more contraband to increase the power of the American underworld !!!

So let them outlaw vapes - The next Al Capone or El Chapo is waiting to be born.
That would be a very bad thing, because who know what they'd put into the vape fluid?
 

AlienView

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#86
That would be a very bad thing, because who know what they'd put into the vape fluid?
Already that is an issue - Assuming you believe there is any truth to this sudden outbreak of
illness among young American vape users {I am very skeptical about it} then you must consider the number of vape users buying all sorts of concocted flavors and/or spiking their vapes with THC and who knows what - And of course there may be an occasional quality control issue with even the major companies manufacturing vapes - I found a pod from one of the big companies occasionally has a very bad taste and has to be discarded - I assumed that the flavoring had been lost in manufacture
- No it didn't make me sick and would doubt it would make anyone sick But I've noticed in some
vape shops young people blowing up a storm of smoke - So I will agree with better quality control
of the product.

Still the way this sudden outbreak of illness among younger vape users suddenly came about
after the news had been whining over and over about under age use, has to be considered more
than coincidence.
 

EnolaGaia

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#87
Finally, some research results are starting to appear ...
Toxic Chemical Fumes May Be Causing Mysterious Vaping Illnesses

As the mysterious outbreak of vaping-related illnesses in the U.S. continues to grow, a new study sheds more light on what could be making people sick.

The study, published today (Oct. 2) in The New England Journal of Medicine, concluded that these illnesses are most likely due to toxic chemical fumes produced from vaping, with these fumes directly damaging the smokers' lungs.

This conclusion is based on an analysis of lung biopsies from 17 patients across the U.S.

Some doctors had suspected that the accumulation of fats or oils (known medically as lipids) in patients' lungs had caused these vaping-related illnesses, but the new study found no evidence for this. ...

"While we can't discount the potential role of lipids, we have not seen anything to suggest this is a problem caused by lipid accumulation in the lungs," study senior author Dr. Brandon Larsen, a surgical pathologist at the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, Arizona, said in a statement. "Instead, it seems to be some kind of direct chemical injury, similar to what one might see with exposures to toxic chemical fumes, poisonous gases and toxic agents." ...

So far, the outbreak has sickened more than 800 people in 46 states, according to the latest data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Among these cases, 12 patients have died. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.livescience.com/vaping-lung-injuries-toxic-fumes.html

THE RESEARCHERS' PUBLISHED LETTER TO THE NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1913069
 

AlienView

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#88
Finally, some research results are starting to appear ...

FULL STORY: https://www.livescience.com/vaping-lung-injuries-toxic-fumes.html

THE RESEARCHERS' PUBLISHED LETTER TO THE NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1913069
Sure, if there really was/is an illness - instead of an agenda.
- An agenda very similar to what lead to the modern version of organized crime
'As the road to Hell seems always paved with good intentions'

The agenda of the Prohibitionists about a century ago in the USA was to demonize
and than prohibit all drinking alcohol - did they ever do this in the UK?

They succeeded here and created a criminal empire which even today, as modern day drug dealers continues to exert their malignant influence on the World.
- Are they now trying to do this with tobacco? There are already enough vapers
in the USA so that prohibition, even limiting flavors, will invigorate a New
Underworld to meet demand.

I will not again repeat the sad and sorry history of alcohol Prohibition in the US
- It is a matter of History - And as I continue to review this history of anti-alcohol
fanaticism and see it raise its ugly head again as the anti-tobacco fanatics try
desperately to demonize a tobacco product that causes them to figuratively foam
at the mouth {OK, I exaggerate some}

But let me give you an historical example of how far the fanatics were willing to
go to stop the public's love of alcohol - And ask you how far are they now willing
to go to fight the so called vaping epidemic in the USA:

10,000 People Died Because The Government Poisoned Alcohol During Prohibition
See whole article here:
https://allthatsinteresting.com/prohibition-government-poisoning

Now I want to make it clear I'm not yet accusing anyone of poisoning the vape
products deliberately - Just suggesting that there has been, and still is, a fanatical
anti-tobacco agenda which was dying out as they succeeded in convincing everyone that tobacco was bad for all - In fact was the most deadly of all bad habits.

And that the rise and development of a tobacco product that was much safer,
if not completely safe, was a nightmare 'they' can not live with - Vaping prevents
them from sleeping at night and the new rise of tobacco popularity brought on
by vaping is just not acceptable.

THEY WILL DO ANYTHING TO STOP PEOPLE FROM ENJOYING TOBACCO IN
ANY FORM WHATSOEVER - THE FACT THAT IT MIGHT BE SAFE MEANS
NOTHING TO THEM - The INQUISITION continues and if we don't stop it now
that will lead them to ?????

PS: The American news media has a bad habit of reporting incomplete news, especially when it too has an agenda - They fail to mention that the majority of cases involve THC {marijuana} and/or illegal or bootlegged use. - Our President Trump keeps talking about fake news but fails to detect it when it is starring right at him and then attacks the legitimate vape industry by trying to censor flavors!




“Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.”
― Anonymous

"Prohibition has made nothing but trouble"
- Al Capone
 
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GNC

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#89
But tobacco is already poisonous. And the lacing of alcohol during Prohibition was public knowledge, it was announced by the government there was poison in it, but people drank it anyway. It's more a common sense problem than a evil, killer dictatorship problem.
 

AlienView

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#90
But tobacco is already poisonous. And the lacing of alcohol during Prohibition was public knowledge, it was announced by the government there was poison in it, but people drank it anyway. It's more a common sense problem than a evil, killer dictatorship problem.
But we also know that alcohol, the kind people drink, is somewhat toxic
- And just how many people die every year from it? - thousands, maybe many
thousands?

However a bloody and very destructive war has already been fought to make it
legal - Sure some AA members and old school prohibitionists would still like to see
it outlawed again.

And what about marijuana? - How many years and how many people died in jail
just so we could get it legal in the USA {some states}}{and elsewhere} - It was outlawed on false information spread by the same control freaks who have now latched onto vaping
as their new issue - Would you like to see a new war because, and this is the
current claim I heard on the news {USA}: The people are getting sick and some
dying because what they are using is acting like mustard gas and burning their
lungs - But they don't know where it is coming from - they do suspect illegal
THC and underground vape products may be to blame.

But we have a serious control freak and dickhead problem in the US
- One state has already completely banned all vape products and a few others
are restricting almost all flavors as our President Donald {'fake news'} Trump
is threatening to do to all flavors nationwide - hopefully this too turns out to
be 'fake new' - but supposedly they can't prevent underage minors from buying
the product so everyone else must suffer accordingly.

First it was alcohol, then marijuana, and of course tobacco was always on the
agenda list but after taxing the hell out of it and cutting down on its use they
kind of let up - Until vaping - Now they fear the resurgence of tobacco popularity
and it bothers the hell out of these control freaks.
And one American billionaire who considers himself the grand protector of public heath, spends millions to control anything he doesn't like from the size of fast food soft drinks, gun control, and of course they say he has spent millions to stop the so
called vaping epidemic.

How come the UK is not having this problem with epidemic vape use, instant
addiction, and sickness and death ???

Like I say, I listen to the news everyday and this vaping epidemic and sudden
disease has unfolded like an agenda driven protocol that has been going on
for at least several years.

And mark my words, it will never stop with just tobacco or vaping.
 
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