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The Rosa Lotti Case (Italy; 1954)

Furthermore ... Conti's report specifically stated that the little men and "spindle" were still in place when Ms. Lotti looked back after traveling some 100m away. ...

NOTE: The Italian WikiUFO article also claims the two little men and the spindle were still in place when she looked back while exiting the scene.
 
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The only real function of / engagement with the interior of the object during the sighting is that first, one of the little men threw some of Lotti's flowers through the hatch; and second, he took a cylindrical 'package' from the interior. Often in these sort of cases there is either a bit of business around entering / exiting the UFO (including via ladders and other such amusingly low tech means of egress) or alternatively the witness is treated to a view of mysterious lights and dials through the hatch or doorway. None of that happens here!
 
Perhaps these 'little people' were actually with a 'circus' act that may have been in the area at the time?
And had nothing to do with this vehicle, but were just checking it out?
Just a thought, after looking at their odd attire.
 
Or they were human cannonball dwarves, checking up on their equipment.
 
The only real function of / engagement with the interior of the object during the sighting is that first, one of the little men threw some of Lotti's flowers through the hatch; and second, he took a cylindrical 'package' from the interior. ...

About the "package" bit ... Some accounts don't mention the "older-looking" little man pulling anything out of the object after tossing Ms. Lotti's flowers inside it. Otherwise, there are at least two different versions of what the little man pulled out of the object after giving back some of the flowers he'd taken from Ms. Lotti.

One version claims he pulled two packets or packages from the interior, both of which appeared to be wrapped in newspaper or something that looked like newspaper.

The other version claims he pulled a single brown object (sometimes described as cylindrical) out, held it up, and seemed to be aiming it at Rosa as if he were going to take a snapshot of her with a camera.

Regardless of which package version is cited, the accounts that mention the package indicate it was at this point Rosa got away, or had already moved away while the little man was occupied getting the package(s) out of the object's interior.
 
Here's one version of the "package" bit (from the Italian WikiUFO webpage):

... The being drew from the door a cylinder-shaped object (a "roll" or an "ingot"), brown in color and with a smooth surface about twenty centimeters long: he held this object at stomach level, pointing it towards [Rosa] , as if he were about to "take a picture". At this point, the woman, she worried about her, moving away with a brisk step from the place: in doing so, she had the impression that the small figure was handing [her] the brown object. After a few meters she turned and saw that the two beings were following her with their eyes, still standing near the "spindle", talking to each other: then, she continued on her way.
SOURCE (Google-Translated):
https://it-wikiufo-org.translate.go...tr_sl=it&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
 
Here's another version of the "package" bit (from Conti's report) ...

Conti-Xtract-Snatch&Exit.jpg

SOURCE: http://www.ignaciodarnaude.com/avistamientos_ovnis/Conti,Humanoids 1954,Cennina,FSR72V18N5.pdf
 
If we turn this around, and say what evidence do we have that an illicit still was seen, we still have nothing except, potentially, a hole in the ground. Were there rumours that were recorded? I think that generally locals have a good idea of what is going on in these close-knit rural communities (Luigi's cousin's friend can sell you cheap booze, just don't tell anyone...). The problem with these old cases is that everything amounts to speculation years after whatever happened actually happened, if anything happened at all.
True.

However, I find I always learn something new when discussing these old cases, in fact sometimes quite a lot. It’s always interesting to look for a rational answer/misidentification (if only to stay ahead of the skeptics) but such explanations usually fall short of accounting for all aspects of the case in question.

To my mind, it is the Distortion Theory at work during encounters with an alien/intelligent other. rather than nuts and-bolts spacecraft’ visiting our planet with the exception of some cases that suggest some sort of robotic probe that may have been travelling for millennia and be a very long way from home and it’s creator
 
True.

However, I find I always learn something new when discussing these old cases, in fact sometimes quite a lot. It’s always interesting to look for a rational answer/misidentification (if only to stay ahead of the skeptics) but such explanations usually fall short of accounting for all aspects of the case in questio.

To my mind, it is the Distortion Theory at work during encounters with an alien/intelligent other. rather than nuts and-bolts spacecraft’ visiting our planet with the exception of some cases that suggest some sort of robotic probe that may have been travelling for millennia and be a very long way from home and it’s creator
Exactly why I enjoy coming here. Everyone here has a differing viewpoint, all valid and worthy of consideration, and lots of discussion.
This particular case has too many varying reports, too much misinformation. If it happened today, it would have been investigated properly.
 
For what it's worth, I think the object as described COULD have been a vehicle for the alleged occupants if several of the following conditions were met (even ignoring TARDIS-like spatial distortion):

* Very high technology allows for substantially reduced propulsion, fuel storage, and life support equipment size.

* The alleged vehicle is only used for comparatively short-range trips, somewhat like a dinghy carried on a yacht.

* The alleged occupants have greatly reduced needs for life support and comfort relative to humans of the same size (As a real-world example, I am reasonably tall, but people have commented many times on how little space I use when "folded up." Clearly, I can't maintain such contorted positions for long, but who knows what a nonhuman being could do? Also think of the clown car trick.).

* The alleged occupants are in some sense artificial, and designed to fit into the alleged vehicle like peas in a pod.
 
For what it's worth, I think the object as described COULD have been a vehicle for the alleged occupants if several of the following conditions were met (even ignoring TARDIS-like spatial distortion):

* Very high technology allows for substantially reduced propulsion, fuel storage, and life support equipment size.

* The alleged vehicle is only used for comparatively short-range trips, somewhat like a dinghy carried on a yacht.

* The alleged occupants have greatly reduced needs for life support and comfort relative to humans of the same size (As a real-world example, I am reasonably tall, but people have commented many times on how little space I use when "folded up." Clearly, I can't maintain such contorted positions for long, but who knows what a nonhuman being could do? Also think of the clown car trick.).

* The alleged occupants are in some sense artificial, and designed to fit into the alleged vehicle like peas in a pod.
The moon rovers were folded up very neatly under the Apollo Lunar Module but quite a size when unfolded, so you have a point re some form of artificial life form designed for planetary exploration. What troubles me though is how the beings were then dressed, which was represented unnecessary bulk and weight and their childish/elvish behaviour which is straight out of fairy/little people folklore
 
I don't have a good explanation for the clothing and behavior. Maybe a failed attempt to fit in with the locals? Maybe part of an elaborate game that nonhumans like to play with humans, kind of like people who whistle at birds?

An illicit distilling operation run by circus performers probably fits this part of the story better.
 
I don't have a good explanation for the clothing and behavior. Maybe a failed attempt to fit in with the locals? Maybe part of an elaborate game that nonhumans like to play with humans, kind of like people who whistle at birds? ...

It's tempting to wonder whether the little men were entertainers (e.g., circus performers) because they were oddly dressed and (let's face it ... ) they were described as dwarf-like. This interpretation is understandable if one sees it in terms of "freaks" in anachronistic attire.

However ... The situational context doesn't clearly support the notion of an entertainment (circus; fair; whatever) being conducted in the Cennina area at that particular time.

Ms. Lotti's encounter occurred early on the morning of Monday, 1 November. This was All Saints Day and a feast day. All Saints Day is a solemn (rather than celebratory) religious holiday dedicated to prayer, reflection, commemoration, etc. I find it difficult to believe the little men were affiliated with an entertainment event occurring on the date of the encounter.
 
I've been pondering an odd re-interpretation of the encounter that fits with the (admittedly) fragmentary alleged facts of the situation.

Let's review ...

There's evidence to suggest the encounter occurred much nearer Cennina than her starting point at the La Collina farm. According to the Italian WikiUFO site account (linked earlier) townspeople returned to the scene only about 30 minutes after Ms. Lotti's encounter. She'd traveled from the encounter site to Cennina, was noticed to be upset / shaken, related her story to both the priest and a member of the carabinieri, and a crowd of townsfolk returned to the scene - all in the space of 30 minutes. It seems to me this extended sequence of events couldn't have occurred in so short a period of time unless the encounter scene lay fairly close to Cennina.

This also means that whatever action cleared the encounter scene happened quickly enough that nothing was found when the townsfolk returned to the site. Either the two little men were able to evacuate the site all on their own, or they had additional help near at hand that Rosa hadn't seen.

Rosa was on her way to the church at Cennina, carrying flowers "... destined for the altar of the Madonna Pellegrina, whose procession had taken place the preceding evening."
http://www.ignaciodarnaude.com/avistamientos_ovnis/Conti,Humanoids 1954,Cennina,FSR72V18N5.pdf

The Madonna Pellegrina (Pilgrim Madonna) was the focus of a Marian movement (or fad, if you will ... ) following the war - a movement that was at its peak in 1954 ...
The pilgrim Madonna or Peregrinatio Mariae is the Catholic tradition of translating a Marian effigy along an itinerary that touches the various locations of a diocese or a wider territory, sometimes represented by an entire country , sometimes extended beyond the same national borders. .

Custom has the meaning of mission for believers and is accompanied by evangelical preaching and the administration of the sacraments , in order to obtain the conversion of men through the intercession of Mary .

While knowing remote historical antecedents, the tradition developed in Europe in the 1940s , in the wake of a great revival of the Marian cult between the 19th and 20th centuries . In Italy the pilgrimages immediately after the war (1946-1951) were of particular importance. ...

The tradition of the pilgrim Madonna unfolds in the wake of the Marian movement that flourished between the nineteenth and twentieth centuries and consolidated by the proclamation of dogmas ... , as well as by the teaching of the Church defined in some constitutions ... The movement finds its apex in the Marian year announced by Pius XII in 1954. For believers, the Peregrinatio Mariaeit is a great moment of faith, conversion and popular religiosity, even if not detached from miraculous and sensational profiles. ...
https://it-m-wikipedia-org.translat...tr_sl=it&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Observations relating to the Peregrinatio Mariae typically involved a procession in which a figure of the BVM, sometimes accompanied by other religious items, was paraded publicly. Note that such a procession had occurred on the evening preceding Ms. Lotti's encounter.

Now consider the little men's attire ... It was anachronistic to the point of seeming medieval, consisting of a fine doublet or vest, tight leggings extending all the way to the feet, and a short or half cloak / cape hanging off their shoulders. They were wearing headgear that included round panels covering their ears, a noticeable band across the forehead, and (according to one account) an additional round panel or element centered on the headband part.
 
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Now, given the items enumerated above ...

What if the seemingly archaic / medieval matching clothes the little men wore were costumes or uniforms of a religious / ceremonial type?

What if these mystery folks were associated with the religious procession of the previous evening, who'd had to stick around until the following day?

What if the mystery object was a prop or container they'd carried during the procession - e.g., a reliquary whose sacred contents had been visibly mounted between the object's central windows?

What if the odd visitors misunderstood Rosa, and they snatched and stowed her flowers assuming they were an offering? What if the subsequent retrieval of a "package" from inside the object represented grabbing a memento or souvenir to give Rosa in return?
 
Well, that's probably the most coherent explanation yet.

Ms. Lotti might not have been familiar with all the various different types of Catholic religious processions, especially ones that travel far and return to the same area infrequently.
 
Now, given the items enumerated above ...

What if the seemingly archaic / medieval matching clothes the little men wore were costumes or uniforms of a religious / ceremonial type?

What if these mystery folks were associated with the religious procession of the previous evening, who'd had to stick around until the following day?

What if the mystery object was a prop or container they'd carried during the procession - e.g., a reliquary whose sacred contents had been visibly mounted between the object's central windows?

What if the odd visitors misunderstood Rosa, and they snatched and stowed her flowers assuming they were an offering? What if the subsequent retrieval of a "package" from inside the object represented grabbing a memento or souvenir to give Rosa in return?
No, no...no.

These kinds of ingenious - but tortured - attempts to find mundane explanations for these kinds of episodes are (like ETH explanations) just too literal and will lead us nowhere.

If you do a cross-comparison with other Humanoid sightings from the fifties and Sixties (mostly the latter decade - this one being a very early one) you will see that there was a raft of pixie-like episodes at this time. They all featured different details but they had the following factors in common:

* A small group of little people - usually clad in some sort of uniform-cum- protective gear often compared to `diving suits`.

* An improbable flying vehicle of some kind (though often not seen aloft).

* The occupants don't communicate - or if they do what they say is monosyllabic and usually nonsensical (e.g that they hail from Mars).

* The beings attempt to take something (e.g the witnesses's dog) or give something (e.g a pancake). If something is given this will later be lost, or will prove to be something inconclusively mundane.

My guess that is that these are parapsychological episodes. Something in the nature of a mind-projection/thought form and/ or an an unusual psychological situation brought about by some as yet unknown localised phenomenon..

I am not at all sure that this phenomenon is at all related to the kinds of UFIOs viewed in the skies which resemble intelligently controlled structured craft and which have multiple witnesses. It represent s something altogether older.

I also believe that chewing over the details of these episodes - the design of the craft or that nature of their garb, for instance - is a bit like trying to decipher the finer background details of a dream you had the night before - that is to say, probably fruitless.
 
What if the odd visitors misunderstood Rosa, and they snatched and stowed her flowers assuming they were an offering? What if the subsequent retrieval of a "package" from inside the object represented grabbing a memento or souvenir to give Rosa in return?
That would have been the ultimate story - something physical from a UFO, as proof of her experience.
And she ran away, though I can certainly understand her fear.
 
No, no...no.

These kinds of ingenious - but tortured - attempts to find mundane explanations for these kinds of episodes are (like ETH explanations) just too literal and will lead us nowhere.

If you do a cross-comparison with other Humanoid sightings from the fifties and Sixties (mostly the latter decade - this one being a very early one) you will see that there was a raft of pixie-like episodes at this time. They all featured different details but they had the following factors in common:

* A small group of little people - usually clad in some sort of uniform-cum- protective gear often compared to `diving suits`.

* An improbable flying vehicle of some kind (though often not seen aloft).

* The occupants don't communicate - or if they do what they say is monosyllabic and usually nonsensical (e.g that they hail from Mars).

* The beings attempt to take something (e.g the witnesses's dog) or give something (e.g a pancake). If something is given this will later be lost, or will prove to be something inconclusively mundane.

My guess that is that these are parapsychological episodes. Something in the nature of a mind-projection/thought form and/ or an an unusual psychological situation brought about by some as yet unknown localised phenomenon..

I am not at all sure that this phenomenon is at all related to the kinds of UFIOs viewed in the skies which resemble intelligently controlled structured craft and which have multiple witnesses. It represent s something altogether older.

I also believe that chewing over the details of these episodes - the design of the craft or that nature of their garb, for instance - is a bit like trying to decipher the finer background details of a dream you had the night before - that is to say, probably fruitless.
Well to support your stance there are a couple of articles the excellent ‘Anomalist‘ blog has flagged up
linked that discuss multiple universes and quantum physics:

https://www.anomalist.com/

https://wonderfulengineering.com/th...up-on-mars-one-day-thanks-to-quantum-physics/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/special-series/michio-kaku-multiverse-reality.html (paywall)

These beings may very well have pooped up from an alternate (and slightly eccentric) universe. When our ancestors chanced upon such encounters they called them the ‘little people’, pixies, elves etc….

 
Well to support your stance there are a couple of articles the excellent ‘Anomalist‘ blog has flagged up
linked that discuss multiple universes and quantum physics:

https://www.anomalist.com/

https://wonderfulengineering.com/th...up-on-mars-one-day-thanks-to-quantum-physics/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/special-series/michio-kaku-multiverse-reality.html (paywall)

These beings may very well have pooped up from an alternate (and slightly eccentric) universe. When our ancestors chanced upon such encounters they called them the ‘little people’, pixies, elves etc….

Reminds me of this
 
No, no...no.

These kinds of ingenious - but tortured - attempts to find mundane explanations for these kinds of episodes are (like ETH explanations) just too literal and will lead us nowhere.

If you do a cross-comparison with other Humanoid sightings from the fifties and Sixties (mostly the latter decade - this one being a very early one) you will see that there was a raft of pixie-like episodes at this time. They all featured different details but they had the following factors in common:

* A small group of little people - usually clad in some sort of uniform-cum- protective gear often compared to `diving suits`.

* An improbable flying vehicle of some kind (though often not seen aloft).

* The occupants don't communicate - or if they do what they say is monosyllabic and usually nonsensical (e.g that they hail from Mars).

* The beings attempt to take something (e.g the witnesses's dog) or give something (e.g a pancake). If something is given this will later be lost, or will prove to be something inconclusively mundane.

My guess that is that these are parapsychological episodes. Something in the nature of a mind-projection/thought form and/ or an an unusual psychological situation brought about by some as yet unknown localised phenomenon..

I am not at all sure that this phenomenon is at all related to the kinds of UFIOs viewed in the skies which resemble intelligently controlled structured craft and which have multiple witnesses. It represent s something altogether older.

I also believe that chewing over the details of these episodes - the design of the craft or that nature of their garb, for instance - is a bit like trying to decipher the finer background details of a dream you had the night before - that is to say, probably fruitless.

I like the logic, and agree that trying to find explanations for some of the details is a fruitless exercise. But.....I still think it's possible, although perhaps not in every case, that some of the stranger humanoid incidents of the period could still be traced back to a mundane stimulus.

As an example, the Quarouble case, one of the best known humanoid reports of the 1954 French wave, has been very convincingly explained by a French ufologist, Dominique Caudron. The solution - it was probably a van whose two occupants were noticed by other locals selling dodgy fabrics door-to-door, combined with a bright meteor seen by others around the same time. Indeed, the witnesses' initial hunch that he was seeing a couple of smugglers (Quarouble was close to the Belgian border) might not have been too far out. Unfortunately his story shifted under the influence of journalists and UFO enthusiasts 'helping' him to understand what he saw, so the experience became gradually more exotic. The case spawned articles and books - and the witness ended up as a contactee.

So even the strangest cases can suddenly all fall into place - I think it's a worthwhile exercise to at least try a few mundane explanations to see if they fit.
 
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